beergut
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Post by beergut on Jul 29, 2017 14:04:03 GMT -5
My niece is 9 years old. She has a second cousin who is 5 years younger than she is who she absolutely adores. One of the easiest ways to get her to light up and talk is to ask her how this cousin is doing. When she was born, she called her 'baby cousin M', and has always looked forward to any opportunities to see her, play with her, spend time with her.
This second cousin is her mother's sister's step-granddaughter, or her mother's BIL's granddaughter.
Right now, my ex-SIL is angry at her BIL, her sister's husband, and has gone no contact. She doesn't want to see him, talk to him, doesn't want to have anything to do with him. Fair enough, that is her choice.
But she has also decided that her dispute with him means no one else from her family can have contact with him or anyone else in his family. As a result, she doesn't want to talk to her BIL's daughter or SIL, or their daughter, which is cousin M. So she won't let my niece, her own daughter, talk to or contact her favorite cousin.
Not only is she depriving her daughter from seeing and spending time with one of her favorite people in the world, she is depriving cousin M from spending time with someone who is almost a big sister to her.
Nothing like pushing your anger and dispute onto someone else, and punishing them for something they had nothing to do with. Because she is angry at her BIL, she is punishing her daughter and cousin M.
Stupid selfish b-word.
Every time I think I've seen the most self-centered selfish thing she can do, she tops it.
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Blonde Granny
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Post by Blonde Granny on Jul 29, 2017 14:22:12 GMT -5
Remember beer...hell hath no fury like a woman scorned. We don't have to make sense, we just want to get even...and getting even means no holds barred & everything is fair game.
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giramomma
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Post by giramomma on Jul 29, 2017 14:24:26 GMT -5
I dunno.
As a kid/young adult I was triangulated between two adults that didn't talk to each other in two different relationships. (So, three people. Person A went NC with Person B. Separate relationship, Person A went no contact with Person C. There were no other kids involved, though.
It sucked. I mean, it really, really sucked.
And it was stupid.
And as an adult, I look back at how unhealthy it was.
As a child..I would have preferred that Person A insist I go no contact with Person B. To me, it made more sense for me to go NC.
I also would have preferred that Person C divorce person A, thereby at least limiting my exposure to person A. Also would have made sense.
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CCL
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Post by CCL on Jul 29, 2017 14:54:09 GMT -5
But do you know what the feud is about? Is it possible there's something going on that the girls shouldn't be exposed to? It sucks, but IME, it's usually best to stay out of it.
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quince
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Post by quince on Jul 29, 2017 18:02:21 GMT -5
Hell, if I dislike someone enough to completely avoid them, I'm not going to be OK with my kids being around them either. My husband is a grown-up, he can do what he likes. My kids? I have a say. I'm not going to go let them hang out at the home of people I don't like, because I wouldn't trust them or be comfortable with them supervising my children. I also certainly wouldn't expect someone I wasn't talking to to let their kid come over to my house, wouldn't be comfortable disciplining their kid if I don't have a relationship with the parents, etc.
It makes MORE sense for kids to not hang out if their parents aren't cool with each other than the alternative.
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beergut
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Post by beergut on Jul 29, 2017 18:55:59 GMT -5
Hell, if I dislike someone enough to completely avoid them, I'm not going to be OK with my kids being around them either. My husband is a grown-up, he can do what he likes. My kids? I have a say. I'm not going to go let them hang out at the home of people I don't like, because I wouldn't trust them or be comfortable with them supervising my children. I also certainly wouldn't expect someone I wasn't talking to to let their kid come over to my house, wouldn't be comfortable disciplining their kid if I don't have a relationship with the parents, etc. It makes MORE sense for kids to not hang out if their parents aren't cool with each other than the alternative. If it was about hanging out at her BIL's place, I could understand, but it isn't. She doesn't want her to see her second cousin, this is her BIL's granddaughter, or go to the home of her BIL's daughter or his son-in-law, which is where the second cousin lives. This is simply her punishing her daughter because she's angry at the grandfather of her daughter's favorite second cousin.
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beergut
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Post by beergut on Jul 29, 2017 18:57:07 GMT -5
Remember beer...hell hath no fury like a woman scorned. We don't have to make sense, we just want to get even...and getting even means no holds barred & everything is fair game. That does not excuse selfish behavior where you deprive your daughter because you're angry at someone. A mother should be able to put the wants and needs of her daughter before he own selfish desires.
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zibazinski
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Post by zibazinski on Jul 29, 2017 20:08:45 GMT -5
What mother have you met that does this?
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zibazinski
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Post by zibazinski on Jul 29, 2017 20:09:13 GMT -5
For that matter what man have you met that does?
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quince
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Post by quince on Jul 29, 2017 20:31:23 GMT -5
A PARENT should put the needs of their children over their own wants.
A PARENT should then judiciously make sure that all members of the family sometimes get what they want, in an equitable and compassionate fashion. This means sometimes dad gets to do what he wants, and other times, he doesn't, because the kid wants to do something else. Kid gets what they want sometimes, and sometimes doesn't, because it conflicts with something the parent wants.
My mom ASKED us if it was OK if she remarried when we were growing up, because it was a substantial change to our lives, we could understand it, and we deserved a say. I am ALL FOR kids wants mattering. Lots of people don't think what kids want should matter even this much.
I am NOT for the wants of the children always trumping the wants of the parents. I also think it is OK to be selfish sometimes.
Depending on what she's mad at him for, and how his kid/kid-in-law falls in the argument, she could validly be uncomfortable being around them/having her kid around them.
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zibazinski
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Post by zibazinski on Jul 30, 2017 6:41:34 GMT -5
Unfortunately you can't control another persons actions
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Blonde Granny
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Post by Blonde Granny on Jul 30, 2017 6:43:10 GMT -5
Remember beer...hell hath no fury like a woman scorned. We don't have to make sense, we just want to get even...and getting even means no holds barred & everything is fair game. That does not excuse selfish behavior where you deprive your daughter because you're angry at someone. A mother should be able to put the wants and needs of her daughter before he own selfish desires. Her own selfish wishes According to who, you?
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NoNamePerson
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Post by NoNamePerson on Jul 30, 2017 7:09:08 GMT -5
Adults male and female can be really petty about things can't they?
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zibazinski
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Post by zibazinski on Jul 30, 2017 7:09:59 GMT -5
Adults male and female can be really petty about things can't they? 😝
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beergut
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Post by beergut on Jul 30, 2017 12:31:21 GMT -5
What mother have you met that does this? I've actually known a lot of mothers (and fathers, for that matter) who put the needs of their kids first at all times. I'm not talking about always sacrificing themselves for their kids in some odd act of martyrdom, I'm talking about simply asking themselves, "Is this good for my child?" before they make big decisions. Either I am unusual because I know a lot of good parents, or you know a lot of parents who were narcissists.
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Rukh O'Rorke
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Post by Rukh O'Rorke on Jul 30, 2017 12:36:28 GMT -5
You don't know what her thought process was so it may not be as simple as you think it is.
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beergut
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Post by beergut on Jul 30, 2017 12:36:47 GMT -5
Depending on what she's mad at him for, and how his kid/kid-in-law falls in the argument, she could validly be uncomfortable being around them/having her kid around them. I am not sure you understood the original post. She is angry at Person A. Person A has a daughter, Person B. Person B has a daughter, cousin M. Because she is angry at Person A, she won't allow her daughter (my niece) to have any contact with cousin M. Person B and her husband, Person C, have completely separate lives and live in a separate town from Person A. My ex-SIL is using her anger at Person A to justify not letting my niece see cousin M, daughter or Person B and Person C. The only connection between Person B, Person C, and cousin M is by blood and marriage. Again, she is angry at Person A, so she is punishing her daughter and cousin M because in her twisted mind, no one else should be happy if she is angry.
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NoNamePerson
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Post by NoNamePerson on Jul 30, 2017 16:19:33 GMT -5
Why is she angry?
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zibazinski
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Post by zibazinski on Jul 30, 2017 16:20:38 GMT -5
Maybe Person A took something from her home. One never knows what will piss another off.
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Deleted
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Post by Deleted on Jul 31, 2017 7:37:50 GMT -5
I don't know. It sounds petty, but hard to say what is all going on just from your take. Regardless, I'm sure the 9 year old will be fine not hanging out with her 4 year old cousin.
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giramomma
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Post by giramomma on Jul 31, 2017 8:21:59 GMT -5
I don't know. It sounds petty, but hard to say what is all going on just from your take. Regardless, I'm sure the 9 year old will be fine not hanging out with her 4 year old cousin. The other thing I was thinking is that 9yo is likely getting close to getting a cell phone of her own soon, which means she can contact the 4 yo cousin. I mean, mom can try and "forbid" calling the younger cousin on a cell phone, but when there's a will, there's a way. And I'm guessing mom can't stop her life to monitor her kid's activity 24/7 to ensure that the older one is following all the rules. My mom did that, but she was also a SAHP. She didn't really have anything else to do.
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hoops902
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Post by hoops902 on Jul 31, 2017 9:03:34 GMT -5
I don't know. It sounds petty, but hard to say what is all going on just from your take. Regardless, I'm sure the 9 year old will be fine not hanging out with her 4 year old cousin. The other thing I was thinking is that 9yo is likely getting close to getting a cell phone of her own soon, which means she can contact the 4 yo cousin. I mean, mom can try and "forbid" calling the younger cousin on a cell phone, but when there's a will, there's a way. And I'm guessing mom can't stop her life to monitor her kid's activity 24/7 to ensure that the older one is following all the rules. My mom did that, but she was also a SAHP. She didn't really have anything else to do. Let's be realistic though. As much as people attribute these kinds of "bonds" between children...children are fickle and have short attention spans. A few weeks without contact and both children will probably have forgotten all about one another unless someone brings it up to them. Children have that kind of personality where they can see each other and be immediately best friends, and a few weeks apart and you have to remind them who the other person is.
Children move on quickly, they tend to not dwell on these kinds of things like adults do.
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gooddecisions
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Post by gooddecisions on Jul 31, 2017 9:04:12 GMT -5
There could be many, many reasons a mom wouldn't want her young daughter around someone (maybe it's petty, maybe it's justified, not enough details here to say). If she lets her go to the second cousins house, this granddad could be there or show up. So yeah, If you need to cut someone out, you have to totally cut them all out. Obviously a lot of time was spent together to create such a strong bond, which means granddad (is that bil, it is really hard to follow) is likely hanging out a lot too.
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hoops902
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Post by hoops902 on Jul 31, 2017 9:49:18 GMT -5
There could be many, many reasons a mom wouldn't want her young daughter around someone (maybe it's petty, maybe it's justified, not enough details here to say). If she lets her go to the second cousins house, this granddad could be there or show up. So yeah, If you need to cut someone out, you have to totally cut them all out. Obviously a lot of time was spent together to create such a strong bond, which means granddad (is that bil, it is really hard to follow) is likely hanging out a lot too. It's certainly possible they spent a lot of time together. I think it's also possible they didn't. Kids are just like that. As an example, my brother and I used to live together when we were younger. His wife's, sister's daughter had come over to our house like 3 times (she was 8 or so). At some point after the 3rd visit she had some thing at school where she had to list her best friend, she listed me. I was a recent playpal, but we hardly had a strong bond.
A kid of my wife's cousin drew a photo of her "family" at school a few weeks after Christmas and included my dog that she spent a party playing with in the kitchen and said it was "her puppy".
Kids just tend towards that kind of extreme. I hate you! I love you more than anything in the world!
That's also part of what's really hard about reading this kind of thing. If you aren't right there with them, it's so hard to tell what's really going on (and might be hard even if you are right there).
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midjd
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Post by midjd on Jul 31, 2017 10:29:09 GMT -5
I agree. I have an almost-4yo and I can't imagine she would be more fun for a 9yo to play with than other 9yos would be... and like you said, unless the adults around them are constantly talking or complaining about the situation, it's not likely something either of them is going to be thinking about unless they go to a gathering where they'd normally expect to see the other.
I'd also love to live in a world where restricting a 9yo from contact with a 4yo relative because of an unspecified family dispute is "the most selfish, self-centered thing" a person can do. I unfortunately see far worse on a daily basis.
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Deleted
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Post by Deleted on Jul 31, 2017 10:40:12 GMT -5
Exactly. I can't see how a 9 year old would be that interested in a 4 year old anyhow.
People move away for jobs or whatever all the time and kids are forced to separate from close friends that are their own age. It happens. It's part of being a kid and not having a lot of control over these things.
In a perfect world family all gets along and are happy, but for whatever reason Mom has decided to cut all ties to that branch. Maybe it's a good reason, maybe not, but the kids will be fine. Better than if there's a lot of fighting going on around them anyhow. Maybe it was just too toxic.
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Lizard Queen
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Post by Lizard Queen on Jul 31, 2017 11:10:14 GMT -5
If I had a 9 yo DD, and she was constantly being invited to hang out with a 4 yo 2nd cousin, I'd probably feel like she was being used for free babysitting. I realize some girls (boys, too, perhaps) really enjoy that sort of thing, but I'd still feel like she was being used, and also would have less opportunity to hang out with friends her own age.
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Tiny
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Post by Tiny on Jul 31, 2017 12:12:35 GMT -5
Hell, if I dislike someone enough to completely avoid them, I'm not going to be OK with my kids being around them either. My husband is a grown-up, he can do what he likes. My kids? I have a say. I'm not going to go let them hang out at the home of people I don't like, because I wouldn't trust them or be comfortable with them supervising my children. I also certainly wouldn't expect someone I wasn't talking to to let their kid come over to my house, wouldn't be comfortable disciplining their kid if I don't have a relationship with the parents, etc. It makes MORE sense for kids to not hang out if their parents aren't cool with each other than the alternative. If it was about hanging out at her BIL's place, I could understand, but it isn't. She doesn't want her to see her second cousin, this is her BIL's granddaughter, or go to the home of her BIL's daughter or his son-in-law, which is where the second cousin lives. This is simply her punishing her daughter because she's angry at the grandfather of her daughter's favorite second cousin. Hey, in a world where "boys get to be boys" - it's totally ok for "girls to be girls".... who cares who gets hurt... <-- sarcasm because when "girls are girls" its NOT ok... FWIW: If you don't know the reason for the cut off... there's some chance it might be in the kids long term best interest to be 'cut off' too. It sucks when kids suffer because the adults in their lives aren't very good.
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Rukh O'Rorke
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Post by Rukh O'Rorke on Jul 31, 2017 12:38:40 GMT -5
FWIW: If you don't know the reason for the cut off... there's some chance it might be in the kids long term best interest to be 'cut off' too. It sucks when kids suffer because the adults in their lives aren't very good. [/p]
[/quote] The venom in the op is really misplaced with no information on why the rift occurred. Even if the cause of the breach didn't have anything to do with the girls, doesn't warrant the venom.
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hoops902
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Post by hoops902 on Jul 31, 2017 12:58:01 GMT -5
It's also significantly different (IMO) whether it's "We're just going to avoid that side of the family for a while" vs "If you apologize/do XYZ then I'll let your kid play with my kid, otherwise she can't". One is distancing yourself from what you deem a poor environment, and by extension your child which might be unfair...the latter is trying to use your children as a tool to get what you want which is much easier to loathe.
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