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Post by The Walk of the Penguin Mich on Jul 20, 2017 13:52:57 GMT -5
so no social graces. Where I work now the microbiologists are the germophobes. I guess that is what you get when you count bugs all day long. I was in a group meeting with a bunch of them and we had a pizza lunch brought in. Before getting near the pizza, wash hands (understandable) but then hand sanitizer. Then open the pizza box and use plastic knife and fork to cut the pizza (because they are never totally cut through) and put the slice on your plate taking extra care to NEVER touch the other slice of pizza. Good thing I was at the end of the line so they didn't have to watch me just grab a few slices. My current temporary office is in the Analytical Chemistry area. First they are upset that I took an office, then I have a lot of construction folks that stop by. One day there was some red Alabama clay that was tracked in outside my door. 2 of the chemists stopped by thinking it was a pharmaceutical product and were about to call the safety department. No, it is just plain dirt. I am an engineer and we sometimes get dirty! Nope, not where I was. In fact, we were quite upset when they wouldn't let us eat and drink in the lab anymore. I guess that the difference was that I was working in oral microbiology and all of us had grown out what resides in people's mouth. The bathroom floor is cleaner than your mouth.
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Phoenix84
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Post by Phoenix84 on Jul 20, 2017 14:01:28 GMT -5
Can you expound on what you mean by your classes/classmates being too "nerdy?"
Was it that you didn't "click" with your classmates or professors because of differing personalities? Was it that you didn't want to be seen as "nerdy" for being a math major? Did your professors or classmates make you feel uncomfortable? Is it that you didn't feel like you had anything in common with others in the class?
There are so many different ways to interpret "nerdy."
I suppose I mean the kind that is antisocial, smug, and has to prove how smart they are. The type that laugh at their own jokes when no one else is laughing. I'm sure it wasn't everyone, but I'm quiet and shy, and in a class of other quiet and shy kids with even two or three that are Sheldon Cooper types, for me, it just felt very oppressive. It's kind of like when you are a fan of something, get into a fandom, and all of a sudden, you couldn't possibly be a true fan because you don't know all the source material, or you enjoy a certain adaptation. Sometimes you just want to like something, or learn about something, it doesn't have to be your existence. It wasn't just the climate though, my high school AP credit really wasn't enough. I had a 3, which was passing and equivalent to a C, but it wasn't like I took the previous class and got a C, it was more like I took 2/3 of the previous class and got an A. If I felt I had a better handle on the material I would have stuck it out longer, and likely even made some friends. As it was, it just didn't seem a supportive environment to play catch-up. I'm not sure if "supportive" is the right word. The truth is that in most science and math majors there are "weed out" classes that are designed to be hard and offer little support by design. It's supposed to separate the wheat from the chaff. That's not a gender issue, that's just the way science majors are structured.
Trust me, many a physics major changed to theater or philosophy while taking fluid mechanics quantum mechanics at my university.
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Phoenix84
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Post by Phoenix84 on Jul 20, 2017 14:12:01 GMT -5
Yes, perhaps that was poorly worded. After I took the certification exam on Monday I was tired. I had been studying for the exam for hours nearly every day since March. All I wanted to do was go home and relax. But I was there on my employers dime so I had to stay for a week of talks and presentations. So basically, I wasn't in the mood to listen to a bunch of physicists present research 8 hours a day. I found a lot of it boring and not relevant to what I did. Though as I said, some of it was interesting, regardless of gender. That statement was more a commentary on my state of mind and what I saw thannon gender. But I can understand how it could be interpreted as condescending or insulting. So, I apologize for my thoughtless comment. I guess that is my point, Phoenix. Women in science let so many comments like this roll off their back, and we don't call out the people who say this. In fact, I let this slide when I read this yesterday too. I guess it is partially our responsibility, to call you out and make you all aware that thoughtless comments are not uncommon. As men are likely in positions of power too, it does make it more difficult. But realize, if you being stressed you let things like this slip, what do you say at work to the females you work with that they let roll off their back? But surely you've said condescending or thoughtless things before. Everyone has. Furthermore, not everything is about you or about women. If you go looking to be offended you'll find it with little trouble. As WXYZ said, there's plenty of male bashing out there and it's often far more overt than simple condescension.
It's true that people should choose their words carefully, but at the same time, if you perceive every comment as a micro aggression you'll have a very frustrating time. I'm not saying you are being overly sensitive or anything, because I don't think that, but just consider that a particular comment may not have anything to do with you or women and have everything to do with something else entirely.
And keep in mind if I didn't care about women in STEM I wouldn't have started this thread.
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zibazinski
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Post by zibazinski on Jul 20, 2017 14:19:26 GMT -5
I thought PAs were pretty close to being doctors. They use PAs and NPs a lot. The NP at my ob/gyn is one of my favorite people to see there - super personable and knowledgeable. DD's almost a PA and she's got job offers already.
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chiver78
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Post by chiver78 on Jul 20, 2017 14:33:44 GMT -5
I'm late to this thread, so apologies if I'm repeating stuff that's already been said. I'll go catch up after I post I'm a woman in a STEM field (biotech w/a ChE degree). in my previous position, I was on a team that travelled a LOT, all around Europe for a few years. I was barely 25 and the company was sending me anywhere they could for project work. the only place I said I wouldn't return to was Belgium, because I was being treated as a data entry clerk and not at all as an engineer. that wasn't my first project, either. not cool. I noticed some posts on this first page that mention exposing kids to the fun part of the STEM topics, I definitely agree with that. I have two female cousins that are also engineers (EE, both of them) that participated in a robotics program all through HS. my school didn't participate, or I would have done it as well. the fun stuff is what hooks you, and as you learn about how the fun stuff works, you get more interested in it. at least, that's how it worked for me.
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Post by The Walk of the Penguin Mich on Jul 20, 2017 14:47:14 GMT -5
I guess that is my point, Phoenix. Women in science let so many comments like this roll off their back, and we don't call out the people who say this. In fact, I let this slide when I read this yesterday too. I guess it is partially our responsibility, to call you out and make you all aware that thoughtless comments are not uncommon. As men are likely in positions of power too, it does make it more difficult. But realize, if you being stressed you let things like this slip, what do you say at work to the females you work with that they let roll off their back? But surely you've said condescending or thoughtless things before. Everyone has. Furthermore, not everything is about you or about women. If you go looking to be offended you'll find it with little trouble. As WXYZ said, there's plenty of male bashing out there and it's often far more overt than simple condescension.
It's true that people should choose their words carefully, but at the same time, if you perceive every comment as a micro aggression you'll have a very frustrating time. I'm not saying you are being overly sensitive or anything, because I don't think that, but just consider that a particular comment may not have anything to do with you or women and have everything to do with something else entirely.
And keep in mind if I didn't care about women in STEM I wouldn't have started this thread.
Phoenix, I wasn't offended, in fact.....I let it roll off my back the first time I read it (like I imagine most of the women on STEM here did too) but then I went back and decided to use it to make a point. What you said is something that every woman in a STEM has dealt with and I wanted to make you aware that you are part of the problem too. I doubt you would have made the comment "even the men presented some interesting research". You a more accurate statement would have been "I heard some really boring research that I had no interest in" and let it be gender neutral.
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chiver78
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Post by chiver78 on Jul 20, 2017 14:55:43 GMT -5
oh wow, this thread went off the rails pretty quickly. let's get back on topic and leave the other posters out of it. please and thank you. I will delete any more posts after this, likely will go back and clean up some of what's already there as well.
-chiver mod
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chiver78
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Post by chiver78 on Jul 20, 2017 15:17:56 GMT -5
enough. I just deleted a bunch of stuff, and will delete any more posts like that.
-chiver mod
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NomoreDramaQ1015
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Post by NomoreDramaQ1015 on Jul 20, 2017 15:21:12 GMT -5
Where I work now the microbiologists are the germophobes. I guess that is what you get when you count bugs all day long. I was in a group meeting with a bunch of them and we had a pizza lunch brought in. Before getting near the pizza, wash hands (understandable) but then hand sanitizer. Then open the pizza box and use plastic knife and fork to cut the pizza (because they are never totally cut through) and put the slice on your plate taking extra care to NEVER touch the other slice of pizza. Good thing I was at the end of the line so they didn't have to watch me just grab a few slices. My current temporary office is in the Analytical Chemistry area. First they are upset that I took an office, then I have a lot of construction folks that stop by. One day there was some red Alabama clay that was tracked in outside my door. 2 of the chemists stopped by thinking it was a pharmaceutical product and were about to call the safety department. No, it is just plain dirt. I am an engineer and we sometimes get dirty! Nope, not where I was. In fact, we were quite upset when they wouldn't let us eat and drink in the lab anymore. We do it anyhow. Before every inspection we have to run around and make sure everyone puts their coffee cups in their lockers or hides it in a desk drawer.
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Post by The Walk of the Penguin Mich on Jul 20, 2017 15:34:00 GMT -5
Nope, not where I was. In fact, we were quite upset when they wouldn't let us eat and drink in the lab anymore. We do it anyhow. Before every inspection we have to run around and make sure everyone puts their coffee cups in their lockers or hides it in a desk drawer. Once upon a time, we had lab parties. The ice machine was used to store beer (alcohol became a fireable offense). We used heated stir plates to make alcoholic punch. Food was reheated in drying ovens and microwaves. Lab benches were cleared off and trays of food put down, but the chemicals remained on the shelves above. I got reamed out by a PI for using a mug to make instant oatmeal, eating it in our lunch room and carrying the empty mug through the lab to store the mug back in my desk drawer. No more sitting at the lab bench with my coffee.....
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milee
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Post by milee on Jul 20, 2017 15:41:56 GMT -5
We do it anyhow. Before every inspection we have to run around and make sure everyone puts their coffee cups in their lockers or hides it in a desk drawer. Once upon a time, we had lab parties. The ice machine was used to store beer (alcohol became a fireable offense). We used heated stir plates to make alcoholic punch. Food was reheated in drying ovens and microwaves. One of the companies I worked for made very expensive high-tech ovens that were used to heat silicon wafers in the IC chip manufacturing process. Not only were the ovens themselves incredibly delicate, but the silicon wafer manufacturing process had to be done in pristine, clean room environments because impurities like dust could ruin a $10,000 wafer. So these ovens were used in clean rooms, where the air was pressurized to keep outside contaminants out and the workers had to wear gowns, shoe covers, hair covers, gloves. We had this one client who kept having strange issues with their ovens. We kept sending techs out to repair the ovens under warranty but the techs couldn't figure out what was causing the problem. Think it was on the 3rd or 4th visit when our repair techs discovered that the 3rd shift employees had been using the ovens to rewarm pizza...
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Post by The Walk of the Penguin Mich on Jul 20, 2017 15:58:15 GMT -5
Once upon a time, we had lab parties. The ice machine was used to store beer (alcohol became a fireable offense). We used heated stir plates to make alcoholic punch. Food was reheated in drying ovens and microwaves. One of the companies I worked for made very expensive high-tech ovens that were used to heat silicon wafers in the IC chip manufacturing process. Not only were the ovens themselves incredibly delicate, but the silicon wafer manufacturing process had to be done in pristine, clean room environments because impurities like dust could ruin a $10,000 wafer. So these ovens were used in clean rooms, where the air was pressurized to keep outside contaminants out and the workers had to wear gowns, shoe covers, hair covers, gloves. We had this one client who kept having strange issues with their ovens. We kept sending techs out to repair the ovens under warranty but the techs couldn't figure out what was causing the problem. Think it was on the 3rd or 4th visit when our repair techs discovered that the 3rd shift employees had been using the ovens to rewarm pizza... Our drying ovens were not that delicate. It was what we used to dry glassware so we didn't have to dry it by hand, or to hold bacterial medium so it wouldn't congeal. The oven was also excellent for heating up lasagna.
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NomoreDramaQ1015
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Post by NomoreDramaQ1015 on Jul 20, 2017 16:08:03 GMT -5
Once upon a time, we had lab parties. The ice machine was used to store beer (alcohol became a fireable offense). We used heated stir plates to make alcoholic punch. Food was reheated in drying ovens and microwaves. One of the companies I worked for made very expensive high-tech ovens that were used to heat silicon wafers in the IC chip manufacturing process. Not only were the ovens themselves incredibly delicate, but the silicon wafer manufacturing process had to be done in pristine, clean room environments because impurities like dust could ruin a $10,000 wafer. So these ovens were used in clean rooms, where the air was pressurized to keep outside contaminants out and the workers had to wear gowns, shoe covers, hair covers, gloves. We had this one client who kept having strange issues with their ovens. We kept sending techs out to repair the ovens under warranty but the techs couldn't figure out what was causing the problem. Think it was on the 3rd or 4th visit when our repair techs discovered that the 3rd shift employees had been using the ovens to rewarm pizza... That's what you get for not having it properly labeled with a "Not for use with food" sticker. I can one up that. I worked with a PI who knew someone who nuked microwave burritos and then ate them in the Biohazard 3+ area.
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alabamagal
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Post by alabamagal on Jul 20, 2017 16:31:04 GMT -5
One of the companies I worked for made very expensive high-tech ovens that were used to heat silicon wafers in the IC chip manufacturing process. Not only were the ovens themselves incredibly delicate, but the silicon wafer manufacturing process had to be done in pristine, clean room environments because impurities like dust could ruin a $10,000 wafer. So these ovens were used in clean rooms, where the air was pressurized to keep outside contaminants out and the workers had to wear gowns, shoe covers, hair covers, gloves. We had this one client who kept having strange issues with their ovens. We kept sending techs out to repair the ovens under warranty but the techs couldn't figure out what was causing the problem. Think it was on the 3rd or 4th visit when our repair techs discovered that the 3rd shift employees had been using the ovens to rewarm pizza... That's what you get for not having it properly labeled with a "Not for use with food" sticker. I can one up that. I worked with a PI who knew someone who nuked microwave burritos and then ate them in the Biohazard 3+ area. To some people I work with, the "Not for use with food" would just be a dare.
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alabamagal
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Post by alabamagal on Jul 20, 2017 16:53:06 GMT -5
Maybe playing with your food is a sign you might have a career in STEM.
When my DS was in Kindergarten, he got in trouble for sticking a straw in his nose to try to drink his milk. He was just studying fluid dynamics! Best line though was when he said "But Mom, there is no rule that says you can't stick a straw up your nose."
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lurkyloo
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Post by lurkyloo on Jul 20, 2017 17:02:49 GMT -5
I'm S. Undergrad at a top-15 uni where one major was more than half female, the other was overwhelming male. Graduate at a top-5 institute where my particular class was roughly evenly split. There was however some gender bias within the broader field (there were 4 subdivisions). Postdoc at another top-5 where the general department was fairly even, but my specific group was 75-80% male. I have always noted that in science, biology is much more heavily female than chemistry, which is still more female than physics. And in my specific experience,* math grad students are exclusively male and for some reason really skinny. I had a friend who went from S to E and reported back being either the only or one of two females in a class of 30+. Based on my husband's experience (also E) it does seem like there is still a pretty big imbalance there. I was always encouraged to do whatever on the surface, but very aware of broader gender bias. At my first job, the R& department was 15-20% female and I always wondered if outsiders that came to the site assumed I was support staff. Frankly, I wouldn't advise anyone to go into S these days. Academic funding is precarious, industry is outsourcing as hard as they can, etc. *I.e., specifically anecdotal. /end tangent
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emma1420
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Post by emma1420 on Jul 20, 2017 21:57:13 GMT -5
I'm now in my early 40's, and I was very much guided towards pink collar careers like teaching or nursing. I don't even think it was a conscious thing by my parents and the adults around me. I talked to my dad a few years ago and asked him why he never encouraged me to become a doctor or a computer programmer (like he did my brother), and his response was that it had never occurred to him. And I was a kid that needed to be pushed and encouraged.
I landed on my feet, and I'm happy with the work I do. However, I work with healthcare professions now, and I do regret that I didn't have the self-confidence and support to study something like biology (that I liked). I am happy that 60% of new Pharmacists and Physicians are women. But, I do know that many of the women I work with are often dropping down to part-time or take the mommy track in order to have more time with their kids.
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teen persuasion
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Post by teen persuasion on Jul 20, 2017 22:45:42 GMT -5
Computer science degree here - after the first year weed-out classes I was the only female in my year. It was pretty regimented, I don't ever remember taking classes with different year CSC students, so I have no idea if other years were equally lopsided. I don't remember things being socially awkward, the guys seemed to accept me as equivalent, except when we were pulling all-nighters in the lab. If they let their guard down and swore, they'd immediately apologize to me. That's what felt weird - the need to apologize to ME.
When kids arrived, I opted to be SAHM, and we moved out of the city to a rural area. When I (much later) rejoined the working world my CS experience was very out of date. I fell into a position at the local library, which works well around my family obligations. I'm slowly migrating back into my tech side, and I'm thrilled my new director is much more enthusiastic about STEM programming for our patrons. I loved the previous director, but STEM was just not in her wheelhouse (her exact words), and she avoided it.
DD1 got her engineering degree, but decided the field was not for her. She's loving cryptology in the Navy, though. Took her a while to realize languages were her thing, despite being good at math.
Individuals have different skills, and should do what they enjoy and are good at. DH is not strong in science or math, he's the HS English teacher, or was. It's a running joke between us bashing/extolling math skills. DS2 tried engineering in college, and immediately switched to the arts. DS4 is doing CSC now, and I'm always curious how much the degree has evolved since I took courses - do you still need to build a compiler? What are the hot new major electives?
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Phoenix84
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Post by Phoenix84 on Jul 21, 2017 9:37:51 GMT -5
Mich,
Alabamagal made what could be considered an offensive post. She didn't like some of her classmates because they were borderline Asperger's. I have Asperger's. I could easily get bent out of shape and indigent over such comments. She also went on to say she felt some of the STEM folks are too nerdy. That could in theory offend everyone here who is a scientist, including you.
But, I recognize that's her opinion and it's a perfectly valid reason not to consider STEM. I try to maintain a certain objectivity when starting threads or asking people questions. I can't ask someone a question and then turn around and get upset when I don't like their answer.
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Post by The Walk of the Penguin Mich on Jul 21, 2017 14:00:56 GMT -5
Mich,
Alabamagal made what could be considered an offensive post. She didn't like some of her classmates because they were borderline Asperger's. I have Asperger's. I could easily get bent out of shape and indigent over such comments. She also went on to say she felt some of the STEM folks are too nerdy. That could in theory offend everyone here who is a scientist, including you.
But, I recognize that's her opinion and it's a perfectly valid reason not to consider STEM. I try to maintain a certain objectivity when starting threads or asking people questions. I can't ask someone a question and then turn around and get upset when I don't like their answer. So why are you pointing out to ME an offensive statement someone else made to you? Her comment about some STEM folks being nerdy is absolutely true. How many people do you know who would spend hours in dental surgery rooms waiting for chunks of gum tissue (that would otherwise be discarded) so you can spend more hours under a hood trying to culture them? I'm not offended. Your post about "women even presented some pretty interesting research" implies that either they are not capable of presenting research, or capable of being involved in an interesting project, or even doing research in the first place. None are complimentary to the female gender.
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Annie7
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Post by Annie7 on Jul 21, 2017 16:02:14 GMT -5
I am an EE who is working in IT. I have a lot of women friends who are in IT.
Growing up in India, my parents encouraged me to do medicine/engineering. Same as they later did for my brother (he became a civil engineer). I was the first female engineer in my Dad's family and second in my Mom's (my cousin graduated EE 4 years before me). I think Engineering is interesting. It shapes you to think differently - more abstract/logical. In my EE class 20 years ago we had about 50-50 split between the genders. In Comp Science it was probably more female than male. That's why it amazes me that there aren't more women in CS here in the US.
I feel like CS - programming side of it - is one of the easier things to do. If you can think logically, you can program. Syntax varies from language to language, but logic is the basic thing. If you are a programmer you can have a 9-5 desk job. Yes, there are weekends where you have to work, but in many cases you can do it from home. You could take on some of the more challenging aspects of IT where you have to travel/work long hours/work mainly weekends or evenings, etc. The pay is more for those. But you could also just get a 9-5 job - ideal for work-life balance.
It depends heavily on how you are supported/encouraged by your parents/family. I had female friends in school who couldn't even go to college because their parents did not see the point in it since she would have to get married anyway They didn't want her to be more educated than any prospective groom. They feared the pool of candidates for a groom would be very small if she was educated.
My Dad just had a AA while my Mom had a BS in biology. My Grandpa had a 1st grade education while my Grandma had finished 3rd grade. Basically the women had more education than their spouses . So, education was never denied to me or any of my female cousins. We were encouraged to study as much as we wanted.
And we are all NOT nerds . One of my IT friends is the most hilarious person I've known. Another one, a Dr has a wicked sense of humor just like mine. When we women get together we are constantly laughing and having fun.
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alabamagal
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Post by alabamagal on Jul 21, 2017 16:25:59 GMT -5
Mich,
Alabamagal made what could be considered an offensive post. She didn't like some of her classmates because they were borderline Asperger's. I have Asperger's. I could easily get bent out of shape and indigent over such comments. She also went on to say she felt some of the STEM folks are too nerdy. That could in theory offend everyone here who is a scientist, including you.
But, I recognize that's her opinion and it's a perfectly valid reason not to consider STEM. I try to maintain a certain objectivity when starting threads or asking people questions. I can't ask someone a question and then turn around and get upset when I don't like their answer. So why are you pointing out to ME an offensive statement someone else made to you? Her comment about some STEM folks being nerdy is absolutely true. How many people do you know who would spend hours in dental surgery rooms waiting for chunks of gum tissue (that would otherwise be discarded) so you can spend more hours under a hood trying to culture them? I'm not offended. Your post about "women even presented some pretty interesting research" implies that either they are not capable of presenting research, or capable of being involved in an interesting project, or even doing research in the first place. None are complimentary to the female gender. I never said I didn't like my classmates because they were borderline Aspergers. I just people that you encounter in technical fields are not always good at communication and some are borderline Aspergers. I have worked in engineering for over 30 years and have encountered many nerds, and deal with plenty of people lacking communciation skills. Almost all engineers are nerds in some fashion, some more than others. My ODS would probably be diagnosed with Aspergers if he was tested. He is a self professed math nerd and is working on his actuary tests (and doing amazingly well). Not many people would study the 300 hours per test needed to even attempt to pass. My YDS has communication issues, and was having trouble when interviewing for a job. I was posting in job thread about he interviewed for one job as mortgage loan processor and they told him he had the highest score on the aptitude test, but was nervous during the interview. He did not get the job. I don't like when people stress touchy-feely communication skills over competence. And people were giving me crap for my description of him, but I'm just being realistic.
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MJ2.0
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Post by MJ2.0 on Jul 21, 2017 16:27:58 GMT -5
I don't think they stress "touchy feely communication skills" over competence, but you DO have to know how to properly communicate with people and feel comfortable doing so. Especially when you're dealing with people's money.
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teen persuasion
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Post by teen persuasion on Jul 26, 2017 22:17:52 GMT -5
This year's SRP theme is Build a Better World, and I ran a program yesterday with the kids building mini wind turbines. I was pleasantly surprised to have a great turnout of interested kids. Three quarters were girls. They were negotiating to get to be first to wear the safety glasses, to use the tools, etc. One team decided to use heart shaped blades for their turbine. I let them try it to see what would happen (after a little discussion to make sure the blades would clear all surfaces when in motion). They also experimented with an irregular arrangement of the hearts on different blades - one on the side, one at the tip, etc. We could spin it manually, but it wasn't balanced and wouldn't continue rotating for long. Wind from a fan wouldn't spin it at all. We talked about why other designs worked and generated electricity, but the hearts design didn't: size of blades, shape of blades, pitch of the blades, balance. I think it's important for kids to experiment, and fail sometimes, to see that it's not the end of the world, it's just time to try something different, and to learn from those failures. I think it's important for them to see me make mistakes, and fix them, too.
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formerroomate99
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Post by formerroomate99 on Jul 30, 2017 20:38:58 GMT -5
Can you expound on what you mean by your classes/classmates being too "nerdy?"
Was it that you didn't "click" with your classmates or professors because of differing personalities? Was it that you didn't want to be seen as "nerdy" for being a math major? Did your professors or classmates make you feel uncomfortable? Is it that you didn't feel like you had anything in common with others in the class?
There are so many different ways to interpret "nerdy."
I suppose I mean the kind that is antisocial, smug, and has to prove how smart they are. The type that laugh at their own jokes when no one else is laughing. I'm sure it wasn't everyone, but I'm quiet and shy, and in a class of other quiet and shy kids with even two or three that are Sheldon Cooper types, for me, it just felt very oppressive. It's kind of like when you are a fan of something, get into a fandom, and all of a sudden, you couldn't possibly be a true fan because you don't know all the source material, or you enjoy a certain adaptation. Sometimes you just want to like something, or learn about something, it doesn't have to be your existence. Similar things could be said about sports fans or any number of groups. At my first job out of college, the majority of coworkers seemed to think they'd spontaneously combust if they spent more than 90 seconds talking about something other than sports. Talk about smug and cliquish. I've done reporting and ETL in a variety of industries. In a few jobs, I had people spouting all kinds of industry specific jargon that no lay person would know, and then get their panties in a wad if I asked a followup question. And in those places, if I don't immediately know everything about the business and have the ability to read their minds, I'm the one with communication issues. Whatever.
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MJ2.0
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Post by MJ2.0 on Jul 31, 2017 12:29:56 GMT -5
I think anyone who considers themselves a professional should be able to explain their job to an outsider. Everything can be broken down into laymen's terms.
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NastyWoman
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Post by NastyWoman on Jul 31, 2017 15:20:17 GMT -5
I'm S. Undergrad at a top-15 uni where one major was more than half female, the other was overwhelming male. Graduate at a top-5 institute where my particular class was roughly evenly split. There was however some gender bias within the broader field (there were 4 subdivisions). Postdoc at another top-5 where the general department was fairly even, but my specific group was 75-80% male. I have always noted that in science, biology is much more heavily female than chemistry, which is still more female than physics. And in my specific experience,* math grad students are exclusively male and for some reason really skinny. I had a friend who went from S to E and reported back being either the only or one of two females in a class of 30+. Based on my husband's experience (also E) it does seem like there is still a pretty big imbalance there. I was always encouraged to do whatever on the surface, but very aware of broader gender bias. At my first job, the R& department was 15-20% female and I always wondered if outsiders that came to the site assumed I was support staff. Frankly, I wouldn't advise anyone to go into S these days. Academic funding is precarious, industry is outsourcing as hard as they can, etc. *I.e., specifically anecdotal. /end tangent Damn, I should have listened to that professor who practically begged me to major in mathematics after all. Really skinny sounds really good
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milee
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Post by milee on Jul 31, 2017 15:33:59 GMT -5
I'm S. Undergrad at a top-15 uni where one major was more than half female, the other was overwhelming male. Graduate at a top-5 institute where my particular class was roughly evenly split. There was however some gender bias within the broader field (there were 4 subdivisions). Postdoc at another top-5 where the general department was fairly even, but my specific group was 75-80% male. I have always noted that in science, biology is much more heavily female than chemistry, which is still more female than physics. And in my specific experience,* math grad students are exclusively male and for some reason really skinny. I had a friend who went from S to E and reported back being either the only or one of two females in a class of 30+. Based on my husband's experience (also E) it does seem like there is still a pretty big imbalance there. I was always encouraged to do whatever on the surface, but very aware of broader gender bias. At my first job, the R& department was 15-20% female and I always wondered if outsiders that came to the site assumed I was support staff. Frankly, I wouldn't advise anyone to go into S these days. Academic funding is precarious, industry is outsourcing as hard as they can, etc. *I.e., specifically anecdotal. /end tangent Damn, I should have listened to that professor who practically begged me to major in mathematics after all. Really skinny sounds really good My oldest son is going to be an Applied Math major undergrad (wants to be a quant for finance firms/hedge funds) and he totally fits this stereotype... really skinny. Pasty white (I blame DH's English genes for that one), but cute.
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MJ2.0
Senior Associate
Joined: Jul 24, 2014 10:27:09 GMT -5
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Post by MJ2.0 on Jul 31, 2017 16:40:41 GMT -5
I'm S. Undergrad at a top-15 uni where one major was more than half female, the other was overwhelming male. Graduate at a top-5 institute where my particular class was roughly evenly split. There was however some gender bias within the broader field (there were 4 subdivisions). Postdoc at another top-5 where the general department was fairly even, but my specific group was 75-80% male. I have always noted that in science, biology is much more heavily female than chemistry, which is still more female than physics. And in my specific experience,* math grad students are exclusively male and for some reason really skinny. I had a friend who went from S to E and reported back being either the only or one of two females in a class of 30+. Based on my husband's experience (also E) it does seem like there is still a pretty big imbalance there. I was always encouraged to do whatever on the surface, but very aware of broader gender bias. At my first job, the R& department was 15-20% female and I always wondered if outsiders that came to the site assumed I was support staff. Frankly, I wouldn't advise anyone to go into S these days. Academic funding is precarious, industry is outsourcing as hard as they can, etc. *I.e., specifically anecdotal. /end tangent Damn, I should have listened to that professor who practically begged me to major in mathematics after all. Really skinny sounds really good I need a guy with a good build and meat on his bones. I refuse to be the fat one in the relationship.
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NastyWoman
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Joined: Dec 24, 2010 20:50:37 GMT -5
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Post by NastyWoman on Jul 31, 2017 17:54:04 GMT -5
Damn, I should have listened to that professor who practically begged me to major in mathematics after all. Really skinny sounds really good I need a guy with a good build and meat on his bones. I refuse to be the fat one in the relationship. Movie quote: I am no man
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