Phoenix84
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Post by Phoenix84 on Jul 20, 2017 8:06:22 GMT -5
I started as an engineering major. I didn't find it very interesting, but I did find it dirty and smelly. I was also tired of being the only, or one of a few, females in classes full of nerdy types. I was also discouraged a bit, as if I couldn't keep up. Maybe that was me, or maybe it was my environment--I don't know. I wish I had stuck with it, as when I went back to school and took college physics, I was at, or nearly at, the top of the class despite having forgotten some trig, and being in the class with a high school physics teacher (who you'd think would perform better). This was pretty much me. I very briefly decided to major in math, but the higher level courses were nerdy, competitive, and sucked all the joy out of it for me. I also had a few knowledge gaps from my AP course equivalencies so I would have been playing catch-up. I ended up in art and Italian, which I loved, but wish I would have gone into architecture instead. I was too far into my studies once I looked into it though and my scholarship was only for four years. Can you expound on what you mean by your classes/classmates being too "nerdy?"
Was it that you didn't "click" with your classmates or professors because of differing personalities? Was it that you didn't want to be seen as "nerdy" for being a math major? Did your professors or classmates make you feel uncomfortable? Is it that you didn't feel like you had anything in common with others in the class?
There are so many different ways to interpret "nerdy."
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cktc
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Post by cktc on Jul 20, 2017 9:01:37 GMT -5
This was pretty much me. I very briefly decided to major in math, but the higher level courses were nerdy, competitive, and sucked all the joy out of it for me. I also had a few knowledge gaps from my AP course equivalencies so I would have been playing catch-up. I ended up in art and Italian, which I loved, but wish I would have gone into architecture instead. I was too far into my studies once I looked into it though and my scholarship was only for four years. Can you expound on what you mean by your classes/classmates being too "nerdy?"
Was it that you didn't "click" with your classmates or professors because of differing personalities? Was it that you didn't want to be seen as "nerdy" for being a math major? Did your professors or classmates make you feel uncomfortable? Is it that you didn't feel like you had anything in common with others in the class?
There are so many different ways to interpret "nerdy."
I suppose I mean the kind that is antisocial, smug, and has to prove how smart they are. The type that laugh at their own jokes when no one else is laughing. I'm sure it wasn't everyone, but I'm quiet and shy, and in a class of other quiet and shy kids with even two or three that are Sheldon Cooper types, for me, it just felt very oppressive. It's kind of like when you are a fan of something, get into a fandom, and all of a sudden, you couldn't possibly be a true fan because you don't know all the source material, or you enjoy a certain adaptation. Sometimes you just want to like something, or learn about something, it doesn't have to be your existence. It wasn't just the climate though, my high school AP credit really wasn't enough. I had a 3, which was passing and equivalent to a C, but it wasn't like I took the previous class and got a C, it was more like I took 2/3 of the previous class and got an A. If I felt I had a better handle on the material I would have stuck it out longer, and likely even made some friends. As it was, it just didn't seem a supportive environment to play catch-up.
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Post by The Walk of the Penguin Mich on Jul 20, 2017 9:09:31 GMT -5
When I was at the Health Physics conference last week, I noticed that there weren't many women, and they were significantly outnumbered by men. Sure, there were some, and some of them even presented interesting research, but I'd say the total was around 15%. And this is just one very specific field.
So why aren't more women going into science, technology, engineering, and math (STEM) fields? I know we have a few women on these boards like DramaQ and Mich that work or have worked in the sciences. Did they face any barriers that make it difficult for women to succeed in those fields? And if you're a female who didn't go into STEM, why not? And what can be done to incentivize more women to choose STEM?
BTW, do you realize how condescending this sounds? This is a good example of what some women deal with.
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Phoenix84
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Post by Phoenix84 on Jul 20, 2017 9:36:10 GMT -5
When I was at the Health Physics conference last week, I noticed that there weren't many women, and they were significantly outnumbered by men. Sure, there were some, and some of them even presented interesting research, but I'd say the total was around 15%. And this is just one very specific field.
So why aren't more women going into science, technology, engineering, and math (STEM) fields? I know we have a few women on these boards like DramaQ and Mich that work or have worked in the sciences. Did they face any barriers that make it difficult for women to succeed in those fields? And if you're a female who didn't go into STEM, why not? And what can be done to incentivize more women to choose STEM?
BTW, do you realize how condescending this sounds? This is a good example of what some women deal with. Yes, perhaps that was poorly worded. After I took the certification exam on Monday I was tired. I had been studying for the exam for hours nearly every day since March. All I wanted to do was go home and relax. But I was there on my employers dime so I had to stay for a week of talks and presentations. So basically, I wasn't in the mood to listen to a bunch of physicists present research 8 hours a day. I found a lot of it boring and not relevant to what I did. Though as I said, some of it was interesting, regardless of gender. That statement was more a commentary on my state of mind and what I saw thannon gender. But I can understand how it could be interpreted as condescending or insulting. So, I apologize for my thoughtless comment.
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MJ2.0
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Post by MJ2.0 on Jul 20, 2017 9:43:11 GMT -5
I worked for the college computer helpdesk in my senior year. The smug condescension of all the IT guys there could fill a blue whale's ass. What is it about IT and smug condescension? Is it that that's the one thing they're good at and they have to let everyone know how good they are? Or is it that they have zero clue on how to connect with other humans?
*I know everyone in IT isn't like this, but most of my dealings with IT from college until now have been very similar.
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NomoreDramaQ1015
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Post by NomoreDramaQ1015 on Jul 20, 2017 9:49:38 GMT -5
I haven't encountered much but I've been really fortunate to work for and with the people I have.
We did have a collaborator who proudly stated he did not think women should be technicians/PhD candidates because women don't make good scientists, we're all too busy getting pregnant. He told my friend's boss that he needed to make sure he fired her early in her pregnancy and have a lot of documentation to show what a screw up she was so she couldn't come back and sue him.
She also told me about a medical student she's had in her current lab that refuses to work with her because she is a woman and he doesn't trust that she knows what she is talking about. His attitude does not really shock me at all, medical students in general tend to walk around acting like they are God whenever they are in a research lab.
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Post by The Walk of the Penguin Mich on Jul 20, 2017 10:01:56 GMT -5
BTW, do you realize how condescending this sounds? This is a good example of what some women deal with. Yes, perhaps that was poorly worded. After I took the certification exam on Monday I was tired. I had been studying for the exam for hours nearly every day since March. All I wanted to do was go home and relax. But I was there on my employers dime so I had to stay for a week of talks and presentations. So basically, I wasn't in the mood to listen to a bunch of physicists present research 8 hours a day. I found a lot of it boring and not relevant to what I did. Though as I said, some of it was interesting, regardless of gender. That statement was more a commentary on my state of mind and what I saw thannon gender. But I can understand how it could be interpreted as condescending or insulting. So, I apologize for my thoughtless comment. I guess that is my point, Phoenix. Women in science let so many comments like this roll off their back, and we don't call out the people who say this. In fact, I let this slide when I read this yesterday too. I guess it is partially our responsibility, to call you out and make you all aware that thoughtless comments are not uncommon. As men are likely in positions of power too, it does make it more difficult. But realize, if you being stressed you let things like this slip, what do you say at work to the females you work with that they let roll off their back?
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simser
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Post by simser on Jul 20, 2017 10:03:46 GMT -5
From a slightly different field, I'll tell a story. Ruth Bader Ginsberg (I think it was her) was asked one time how many females should be on the Supreme Court. She replied "9" and the person who asked was like "whoa, all female? What happened to equality". And she said a line I love. "We've had all 9 justices be male and no one ever questioned that. Why should they question if all 9 are female?"
I paraphrase, but if you're serious about wanting to change the women in stem fields thing- take out all the guys from decision making rooms, and have them be all women making policy/changes/decisions. That's when I know things have changed forever.
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hoops902
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Post by hoops902 on Jul 20, 2017 10:04:46 GMT -5
I worked for the college computer helpdesk in my senior year. The smug condescension of all the IT guys there could fill a blue whale's ass. What is it about IT and smug condescension? Is it that that's the one thing they're good at and they have to let everyone know how good they are? Or is it that they have zero clue on how to connect with other humans? *I know everyone in IT isn't like this, but most of my dealings with IT from college until now have been very similar. I think it's because it's the only thing they're good at, combined with the fact that most questions they face will be SUPER easy questions for them. At some point when you get a lot of knowledge in one area, you just forget that the really basic stuff to you is the stuff other people don't know.
I also tend to find in my company that they just can't wait to jump into conversation and "sound smart" even though they don't understand the underlying business. As the more "techy" person on the business side, I can't count how many times in meetings someone will ask a question to another business person, some smug IT guy will jump in with a really technical explanation, at which point I have to point out that what they answered is not the actual question on the table.
It may also have to do with the fact that when you're smug about your own knowledge, yet always "working for" people/groups who don't understand the things you do, that it gets frustrating answering the same things over and over again. Outside of IT there's kind of a tendency to send the IT folks off into their own corner until you need them as well. I'm sure that doesn't help things.
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Lizard Queen
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Post by Lizard Queen on Jul 20, 2017 10:05:48 GMT -5
I worked for the college computer helpdesk in my senior year. The smug condescension of all the IT guys there could fill a blue whale's ass. What is it about IT and smug condescension? Is it that that's the one thing they're good at and they have to let everyone know how good they are? Or is it that they have zero clue on how to connect with other humans? *I know everyone in IT isn't like this, but most of my dealings with IT from college until now have been very similar. I took a bunch of IT classes, but it was just as the field was getting hot--probably back around 2000. I was doing as well as, or better than, most of the others in the class, and I didn't get smug condescension from them. They were actually pretty nice. They were just really into this stuff, and I was just like, eh, if it'll get me a decent-paying job, I'll learn it. I gave up on it because of that. You probably really should really be interested in that stuff--happily fiddling with temperamental settings until you get things optimized, like these guys. I just got really annoyed that things weren't designed to work better in the first place.
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HoneyBBQ
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Post by HoneyBBQ on Jul 20, 2017 10:17:34 GMT -5
I have a PhD in physics in a sub-field that's about as STEM as you can get. My field is about 20-25% women.
There's soooo much I could write. I honestly don't have the time or energy, but lets just say it's hard because: society, expectations, overt sexism, non-overt sexism, family balances in the US being out of whack, etc.
In graduate school I've literally had a guy stop in his tracks and leave during a date (even though we were having fun) and say that they couldn't date someone that smart.
I've had people come into my office and ask for Dr. BBQ because they think I'm the Dr's secretary.
I've had colleagues ask me to take notes at meetings.
I've had to deal with teachers saying any women in physics just become high school teachers and they shouldn't bother.
Almost all doctors (PhD or MD) are constantly referred to as "HE". Do you know how tiring that is? That you are excluded casually in almost every context?
I could go on and on.
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HoneyBBQ
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Post by HoneyBBQ on Jul 20, 2017 10:18:56 GMT -5
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MJ2.0
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Post by MJ2.0 on Jul 20, 2017 10:25:51 GMT -5
I thought PAs were pretty close to being doctors. They use PAs and NPs a lot. The NP at my ob/gyn is one of my favorite people to see there - super personable and knowledgeable.
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HoneyBBQ
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Post by HoneyBBQ on Jul 20, 2017 10:28:53 GMT -5
You are not going to get instant change. The changes that have occurred over the past 20 years are massive in the scheme of history. It is a reflection of your own biases that led you to pull the one job out of the list above that contains the word "assistant". Most of those "assistants" used to be men. And, most of the "women" now holding those jobs are among the top 1-5% of earners. The word "assistant" is not in that job title because it was historically a women's occupation. but, your bias leads you to jump there and ignore all the gains in the entire list to focus on this one false perception of bias against women. LOL. I work in medicine. I'm pointing out they are not full physicians and having a majority there is like not sitting at the table during a meeting. You're there, but you aren't there. That said, I routinely see PAs for a majority of my medical care.
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Rukh O'Rorke
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Post by Rukh O'Rorke on Jul 20, 2017 10:38:07 GMT -5
I have a PhD in physics in a sub-field that's about as STEM as you can get. My field is about 20-25% women. There's soooo much I could write. I honestly don't have the time or energy, but lets just say it's hard because: society, expectations, overt sexism, non-overt sexism, family balances in the US being out of whack, etc. In graduate school I've literally had a guy stop in his tracks and leave during a date (even though we were having fun) and say that they couldn't date someone that smart. I've had people come into my office and ask for Dr. BBQ because they think I'm the Dr's secretary. I've had colleagues ask me to take notes at meetings. I've had to deal with teachers saying any women in physics just become high school teachers and they shouldn't bother. Almost all doctors (PhD or MD) are constantly referred to as "HE". Do you know how tiring that is? That you are excluded casually in almost every context? I could go on and on. I'm taking this name for my secret sauce!
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Post by The Walk of the Penguin Mich on Jul 20, 2017 10:39:56 GMT -5
Sorry......no more comments from me on this thread as usual. Too much implied male bashing going on as usual on these boards for my taste. Yes, everyone is a victim. This is pretty good, considering the female bashing that you ascribe to. ymam.proboards.com/thread/53649/extreme-feminist-mom-future-societyMen write stupid things too, but you had to point out female stupidity. Yes, it is an inane article. But it pretty much makes you sound like a hypocrite with this comment.
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hoops902
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Post by hoops902 on Jul 20, 2017 10:43:12 GMT -5
If 50% of medical students are female, there SHOULD be 70% of physicians that are male. It hasn't been 50% of medical students as female for the past 50 years. The article just glosses over the fact that it takes a LOT of time for school enrollment to match people in the field working (any field).
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Rukh O'Rorke
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Post by Rukh O'Rorke on Jul 20, 2017 10:50:34 GMT -5
I think #2 is a fair point. #1 is really just a confirmation of a skills gap though. If you can bring in this group who is ready to work, or bring in this group who needs me to set up a training program for them to be fit for the job...that really does point to a legitimate skills gap existing.
And just to toss in my own experience...I'm actually seeing a LOT of female foreign workers in our STEM fields. I see a far great proportion of women-to-men from foreign employees (either those coming to the US or working in foreign countries) than I do from US workers. I also see a lot more minority women from the US entering STEM fields as compared to Caucasian women (I'm assuming because it's a far more level playing field than other non-technical opportunities might be).
I'll admit, my perspective is likely skewed because I've worked for the government and the DOD in particular. We do TONS of training and qualification. It took me about two years to qualify as a inspector.
I realize that creating a comprehensive training program spanning years is not feasible for most employers. After all, they're in the business of making a profit, not in the business of becoming trade schools or colleges. But still, depending on the skill and the job, if it can be trained in six months or less I'd seriously look at training people rather than bitching about how no one meets my standards as an employee.
Regarding female minorities in STEM, I haven't seen it in my slice of the STEM field, in physics and health physics. But as WXYZ's article pointed out, some science fields have more women than others.
In my field, no matter how applied your education - training for specific job tasks are still needed. Plus - every place is somewhat different although many skills are transferable. You could certainly go into the literature and for the most part do-it-yourself - but that doesn't mean you are in line with the company's take on that process. We do it if there is no template/history of that type of work. It is also not the case that someone is useless until they are trained. Our former analyst - who's been promoted - is still learning. When she started, she was excellent, she is currently ABD, but still has lot of questions when a new wrinkle comes up. There are several types of projects she would need a lot of assistance on if they came up. But just the first go round. When I was in a slightly different field, my entry level job was into a tiered structure. We had a one week training, test, then started working with lower level clients. We also had to do a 3 day course at SAS institute on programming after passing the conceptual and company products/services test. Someone with 2-3 years would be the mentor for questions over the next 6 months, and then you were cleared for independent accounts. There were four levels of consulting that you would graduate up a level every year or two as you acquired knowledge. However, you were still useful right out of training, but became more so over time. For that job, it was a master degree entry-level consulting position.
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alabamagal
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Post by alabamagal on Jul 20, 2017 10:55:06 GMT -5
Can you expound on what you mean by your classes/classmates being too "nerdy?"
Was it that you didn't "click" with your classmates or professors because of differing personalities? Was it that you didn't want to be seen as "nerdy" for being a math major? Did your professors or classmates make you feel uncomfortable? Is it that you didn't feel like you had anything in common with others in the class?
There are so many different ways to interpret "nerdy."
I suppose I mean the kind that is antisocial, smug, and has to prove how smart they are. The type that laugh at their own jokes when no one else is laughing. I'm sure it wasn't everyone, but I'm quiet and shy, and in a class of other quiet and shy kids with even two or three that are Sheldon Cooper types, for me, it just felt very oppressive. It's kind of like when you are a fan of something, get into a fandom, and all of a sudden, you couldn't possibly be a true fan because you don't know all the source material, or you enjoy a certain adaptation. Sometimes you just want to like something, or learn about something, it doesn't have to be your existence. It wasn't just the climate though, my high school AP credit really wasn't enough. I had a 3, which was passing and equivalent to a C, but it wasn't like I took the previous class and got a C, it was more like I took 2/3 of the previous class and got an A. If I felt I had a better handle on the material I would have stuck it out longer, and likely even made some friends. As it was, it just didn't seem a supportive environment to play catch-up. One of the issues with going into a highly technical field is that you have to deal with a higher percentage of nerdy people. Maybe getting through school with all of those nerds is a test for real life. I went to a well known engineering school with a high percentage of nerds. When everyone that goes to the university has to take at least one year of calculus (even if it is the "easy" Business Calculus) you live among the nerds. That is what you learn to deal with. In the working world it is the same thing. There are some engineers who are good at communication (and more women engineers in my opinion), but a large portion are not. Some engineers that I work with are borderline Aspergers, and some are just downright creepy. At the school I went to did not even accept AP credit for calculus. You had to take it again no matter what. And almost everyone had AP Calculus in high school, so Calculus 1 was a quick review. I had a roommate from a small school who did not even have the option of calculus in high school. She failed out (not a big surprise). There was no supportive environment, you made it or you didn't.
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Post by The Walk of the Penguin Mich on Jul 20, 2017 10:59:40 GMT -5
If 50% of medical students are female, there SHOULD be 70% of physicians that are male. It hasn't been 50% of medical students as female for the past 50 years. The article just glosses over the fact that it takes a LOT of time for school enrollment to match people in the field working (any field). No, but females have made up around 50% of the medical school class for nearly the last 20 years, and were about 1/3 of the medical school class in the early 1980s.
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Post by The Walk of the Penguin Mich on Jul 20, 2017 11:09:43 GMT -5
One of the issues with going into a highly technical field is that you have to deal with a higher percentage of nerdy people. Maybe getting through school with all of those nerds is a test for real life. I went to a well known engineering school with a high percentage of nerds. When everyone that goes to the university has to take at least one year of calculus (even if it is the "easy" Business Calculus) you live among the nerds. That is what you learn to deal with. In the working world it is the same thing. There are some engineers who are good at communication (and more women engineers in my opinion), but a large portion are not. Some engineers that I work with are borderline Aspergers, and some are just downright creepy.It's not just nerdy, but how you look at life. We had a Nobel prize speaker come in to talk at one of the universities and we all went to see him. The university put on a HUGE spread of food to the invited guests, which included the labs, post docs and PIs. Poached salmon was on the menu, but at the time I was really not enamoured with it so didn't bother getting any. Anyway, one of the women in our lab did get some salmon and after the reception while the speaker was talking, she was looking at the salmon and she saw little worms crawling out of it. Whoops! The proper procedures were done to make sure that those who ate the salmon were treated. A week later, we all were at lunch at a Thai restaurant. It was a large group of us and we had a table in the center of the room and we were a little very noisy. The topic of discussion was the worms in the salmon as we were munching down on Pad Thai, and as all of us were microbiologists, none of us gave a second thought as to how gross our conversation sounded. (Actually, the worms were more palatable when compared to what the lab cultured out of some people's mouth!) Unfortunately, others in the restaurant did, and we cleared the restaurant out very quickly.
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hoops902
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Post by hoops902 on Jul 20, 2017 11:15:57 GMT -5
If 50% of medical students are female, there SHOULD be 70% of physicians that are male. It hasn't been 50% of medical students as female for the past 50 years. The article just glosses over the fact that it takes a LOT of time for school enrollment to match people in the field working (any field). No, but females have made up around 50% of the medical school class for nearly the last 20 years, and were about 1/3 of the medical school class in the early 1980s. In the early 80's, about 25% of graduates were women. Then figure out how long people work (up to 40-50 years), then figure out what population of men and women each decide to voluntarily stop working. The article referenced even concedes that some women are leaving voluntarily to be SAHMs taking care of children...is this somehow an issue to allow people to make their own choices?
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Post by The Walk of the Penguin Mich on Jul 20, 2017 11:24:01 GMT -5
No, but females have made up around 50% of the medical school class for nearly the last 20 years, and were about 1/3 of the medical school class in the early 1980s. In the early 80's, about 25% of graduates were women. Then figure out how long people work (up to 40-50 years), then figure out what population of men and women each decide to voluntarily stop working. The article referenced even concedes that some women are leaving voluntarily to be SAHMs taking care of children...is this somehow an issue to allow people to make their own choices? If you consider that many don't graduate and get a medical education until they are nearly 30, very few work 40-50 years. 4 years undergrad, 4 years of medical school take you to 26, add internships and residencies and they are 30. If you add specialties on top of this, they might be 35-40 before entering the work force. www.aamc.org/download/153708/data/This is the article where I got my data, it says 32.7% were women in 1982, and by 2003 50.8% were women. The same article says that about 1/3 of the applicants were re-applicants, so a good portion of the class is likely much older than the 22 years they'd be when they entered medical school.
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hoops902
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Post by hoops902 on Jul 20, 2017 11:30:24 GMT -5
In the early 80's, about 25% of graduates were women. Then figure out how long people work (up to 40-50 years), then figure out what population of men and women each decide to voluntarily stop working. The article referenced even concedes that some women are leaving voluntarily to be SAHMs taking care of children...is this somehow an issue to allow people to make their own choices? If you consider that many don't graduate and get a medical education until they are nearly 30, very few work 40-50 years. 4 years undergrad, 4 years of medical school take you to 26, add internships and residencies and they are 30. If you add specialties on top of this, they might be 35-40 before entering the work force. www.aamc.org/download/153708/data/This is the article where I got my data, it says 32.7% were women in 1982, and by 2003 50.8% were women. The same article says that about 1/3 of the applicants were re-applicants, so a good portion of the class is likely much older than the 22 years they'd be when they entered medical school. We aren't talking about internships and residencies though, we're talking about medical school (which you're correct, about to 26 years of age). I looked at the same source material as you actually. The 32.7% is the number of applicants, not the number of students nor graduates. I looked at Chart 4, which shows the graduates, which seems a much better (to me) indication of how to compare actual doctors working in the field.
ETA: If you want to look at number of students and not graduates, then you also have to account for the extended period of time for those people to actually hit the workforce as doctors (which is part of why I went with graduates, I didn't have to figure out if those people took some time off during their schooling, how long it took them to get through, etc...I could just look at people ready to start work as a doctor). For example, using your thinking/numbers, you could start medical school at 22-23, not finish up all that other stuff until 30...so if you want to take that time period, then you have to account for an additional lag of up to 8 years for applicants/students to even start catching up with people working in the field.
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MJ2.0
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Post by MJ2.0 on Jul 20, 2017 11:36:00 GMT -5
One of the issues with going into a highly technical field is that you have to deal with a higher percentage of nerdy people. Maybe getting through school with all of those nerds is a test for real life. I went to a well known engineering school with a high percentage of nerds. When everyone that goes to the university has to take at least one year of calculus (even if it is the "easy" Business Calculus) you live among the nerds. That is what you learn to deal with. In the working world it is the same thing. There are some engineers who are good at communication (and more women engineers in my opinion), but a large portion are not. Some engineers that I work with are borderline Aspergers, and some are just downright creepy.It's not just nerdy, but how you look at life. We had a Nobel prize speaker come in to talk at one of the universities and we all went to see him. The university put on a HUGE spread of food to the invited guests, which included the labs, post docs and PIs. Poached salmon was on the menu, but at the time I was really not enamoured with it so didn't bother getting any. Anyway, one of the women in our lab did get some salmon and after the reception while the speaker was talking, she was looking at the salmon and she saw little worms crawling out of it. Whoops! The proper procedures were done to make sure that those who ate the salmon were treated. A week later, we all were at lunch at a Thai restaurant. It was a large group of us and we had a table in the center of the room and we were a little very noisy. The topic of discussion was the worms in the salmon as we were munching down on Pad Thai, and as all of us were microbiologists, none of us gave a second thought as to how gross our conversation sounded. (Actually, the worms were more palatable when compared to what the lab cultured out of some people's mouth!) Unfortunately, others in the restaurant did, and we cleared the restaurant out very quickly. so no social graces.
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Post by The Walk of the Penguin Mich on Jul 20, 2017 12:00:04 GMT -5
One of the issues with going into a highly technical field is that you have to deal with a higher percentage of nerdy people. Maybe getting through school with all of those nerds is a test for real life. I went to a well known engineering school with a high percentage of nerds. When everyone that goes to the university has to take at least one year of calculus (even if it is the "easy" Business Calculus) you live among the nerds. That is what you learn to deal with. In the working world it is the same thing. There are some engineers who are good at communication (and more women engineers in my opinion), but a large portion are not. Some engineers that I work with are borderline Aspergers, and some are just downright creepy.It's not just nerdy, but how you look at life. We had a Nobel prize speaker come in to talk at one of the universities and we all went to see him. The university put on a HUGE spread of food to the invited guests, which included the labs, post docs and PIs. Poached salmon was on the menu, but at the time I was really not enamoured with it so didn't bother getting any. Anyway, one of the women in our lab did get some salmon and after the reception while the speaker was talking, she was looking at the salmon and she saw little worms crawling out of it. Whoops! The proper procedures were done to make sure that those who ate the salmon were treated. A week later, we all were at lunch at a Thai restaurant. It was a large group of us and we had a table in the center of the room and we were a little very noisy. The topic of discussion was the worms in the salmon as we were munching down on Pad Thai, and as all of us were microbiologists, none of us gave a second thought as to how gross our conversation sounded. (Actually, the worms were more palatable when compared to what the lab cultured out of some people's mouth!) Unfortunately, others in the restaurant did, and we cleared the restaurant out very quickly. so no social graces. Guilty. Honestly, we just talk like that in the lab all the time, so none of us gave the grossness a second thought. We did do better after this event though, so we learned from our mistake.
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HoneyBBQ
Junior Associate
Joined: Dec 27, 2010 10:36:09 GMT -5
Posts: 5,395
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Post by HoneyBBQ on Jul 20, 2017 12:15:41 GMT -5
Sorry......no more comments from me on this thread as usual. Too much implied male bashing going on as usual on these boards for my taste. Yes, everyone is a victim. Ok, I don't see any. But ok.
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Rukh O'Rorke
Junior Associate
Joined: Jul 4, 2016 13:31:15 GMT -5
Posts: 9,985
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Post by Rukh O'Rorke on Jul 20, 2017 12:36:46 GMT -5
what happened to all the nerdy guys during medieval times? I can't see them faring well in those settings, but they made it through to this....their golden age....
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MJ2.0
Senior Associate
Joined: Jul 24, 2014 10:27:09 GMT -5
Posts: 10,972
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Post by MJ2.0 on Jul 20, 2017 13:10:44 GMT -5
what happened to all the nerdy guys during medieval times? I can't see them faring well in those settings, but they made it through to this....their golden age.... maybe they learned a trade or skill that wasn't so rough. They would have survived somehow - becoming shrewd businessmen/traders. "Nerds" would have meant something WAY different than it does today.
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alabamagal
Junior Associate
Joined: Dec 23, 2010 11:30:29 GMT -5
Posts: 8,113
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Post by alabamagal on Jul 20, 2017 13:17:14 GMT -5
One of the issues with going into a highly technical field is that you have to deal with a higher percentage of nerdy people. Maybe getting through school with all of those nerds is a test for real life. I went to a well known engineering school with a high percentage of nerds. When everyone that goes to the university has to take at least one year of calculus (even if it is the "easy" Business Calculus) you live among the nerds. That is what you learn to deal with. In the working world it is the same thing. There are some engineers who are good at communication (and more women engineers in my opinion), but a large portion are not. Some engineers that I work with are borderline Aspergers, and some are just downright creepy.It's not just nerdy, but how you look at life. We had a Nobel prize speaker come in to talk at one of the universities and we all went to see him. The university put on a HUGE spread of food to the invited guests, which included the labs, post docs and PIs. Poached salmon was on the menu, but at the time I was really not enamoured with it so didn't bother getting any. Anyway, one of the women in our lab did get some salmon and after the reception while the speaker was talking, she was looking at the salmon and she saw little worms crawling out of it. Whoops! The proper procedures were done to make sure that those who ate the salmon were treated. A week later, we all were at lunch at a Thai restaurant. It was a large group of us and we had a table in the center of the room and we were a little very noisy. The topic of discussion was the worms in the salmon as we were munching down on Pad Thai, and as all of us were microbiologists, none of us gave a second thought as to how gross our conversation sounded. (Actually, the worms were more palatable when compared to what the lab cultured out of some people's mouth!) Unfortunately, others in the restaurant did, and we cleared the restaurant out very quickly. so no social graces. Where I work now the microbiologists are the germophobes. I guess that is what you get when you count bugs all day long. I was in a group meeting with a bunch of them and we had a pizza lunch brought in. Before getting near the pizza, wash hands (understandable) but then hand sanitizer. Then open the pizza box and use plastic knife and fork to cut the pizza (because they are never totally cut through) and put the slice on your plate taking extra care to NEVER touch the other slice of pizza. Good thing I was at the end of the line so they didn't have to watch me just grab a few slices. My current temporary office is in the Analytical Chemistry area. First they are upset that I took an office, then I have a lot of construction folks that stop by. One day there was some red Alabama clay that was tracked in outside my door. 2 of the chemists stopped by thinking it was a pharmaceutical product and were about to call the safety department. No, it is just plain dirt. I am an engineer and we sometimes get dirty!
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