Cookies Galore
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Post by Cookies Galore on Jun 30, 2017 11:06:12 GMT -5
I've been a pescetarian/mainly vegetarian for 20 years and I have no issue with satiety, getting enough protein, not eating too many carbs, etc. We spend no more than $90/week on groceries for two adults. My husband does eat meat a few times a week, but since I do the majority of the cooking (and he doesn't like fish) that means his dinners are vegetarian. We are both active people. I do have Netflix so I will check out that documentary while I am on vacation for the next 10 days. 😎 I don't understand how fish isn't considered meat. I have never understood that. For me, if you are eating an animal, it's meat. Being a pescetarian definitely won't work for me as I hate most seafood. I don't know, either. That's why I said pescetarian/mainly veg, because I can't fully call myself vegetarian if I eat salmon every so often.
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Post by The Walk of the Penguin Mich on Jun 30, 2017 11:07:56 GMT -5
I've been a pescetarian/mainly vegetarian for 20 years and I have no issue with satiety, getting enough protein, not eating too many carbs, etc. We spend no more than $90/week on groceries for two adults. My husband does eat meat a few times a week, but since I do the majority of the cooking (and he doesn't like fish) that means his dinners are vegetarian. We are both active people. I do have Netflix so I will check out that documentary while I am on vacation for the next 10 days. 😎 I don't understand how fish isn't considered meat. I have never understood that. For me, if you are eating an animal, it's meat. Being a pescetarian definitely won't work for me as I hate most seafood. I'd hate to see our budget if we became pescetarians! We eat fish 1-2x/week, and that usually triples what we pay for a protein source. Even living on the coast, seafood is not inexpensive and it is pretty much impossible to get it under $15/lb.
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Tiny
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Post by Tiny on Jun 30, 2017 11:09:38 GMT -5
I think the whole "too much meat" thing - needs to be talked about in terms of "servings'. I've witnessed people eat 6 strips of bacon and 6 links with breakfast. Have a 1 pound Restaurant burger for lunch. And finish out the day with 1 pound of chicken.
they've basically eaten enough "meat" in one day that would feed a family of 4 for a day (but more likely 2 or 3 days). And that's a typical days worth of food for them.
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Tiny
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Post by Tiny on Jun 30, 2017 11:15:05 GMT -5
I'm a Flexitarian - I have more vegetarian meals than "meat" meals - but in general I don't exclude anything from my diet. (well, I'm not fond of seafood so I don't have fish or shellfish often).
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dannylion
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Post by dannylion on Jun 30, 2017 11:22:25 GMT -5
The food police busybodies always make me cranky, so I was just going to move along to something else (preferably the cookies thread or possibly something involving chocolate), but this sort of thing always causes a bunch of questions to pop into my mind (such as it is):
Who is behind this?
What is their agenda?
What's in it for them?
Where's the money angle and who does it benefit?
My usual response to someone trying to tell me what to do is to thank them for sharing and stare at them until they go away, so I'm not really interested in seeing the video or chasing down the background. I don't really care what other people eat. I have enough trouble managing my own life. Also, I like bacon. And steak. And pork chops. And sausage for breakfast.
Trying to get me to survive on tofu and lentils will not end well for anyone making the attempt.
Wait. Are these the same people who advocate living on air?
People are weird.
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NomoreDramaQ1015
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Post by NomoreDramaQ1015 on Jun 30, 2017 11:26:15 GMT -5
The documentary is full of research to back up the theory that meat & dairy causes diabetes, cancer, heart disease, and dementia. Even the grass fed contribute. Big pharma, meat and dairy industries come out with their own "studies" to keep you consuming. I hear all of you. I was wondering if this documentary was funded by another big industry. I have my doubts too. This goes against what we've been told. Regardless, I myself am going to try to eat as little meat, dairy, processed, and added sugar as possible. Going to eat whole food. It's not going to hurt. there may be a correlation between meat and dairy and the ailments you mentioned, but I'm extremely skeptical of the validity of this documentary if they outright say "meat/cheese causes cancer". DH has told me to post "being alive causes cancer!" on facebook to see what happens. I'd need to read the actual source material for this documentary before I form a judgement. I read a blog, by an ob/gyn no less that said that formula causes heart disease, diabetes, obesity, death, cancer blah blah and here are her studies to back it up! I don't think she expected anyone to read them and understand them. Her "proof" consisted of ONE study that had 8 patients and had made the most causal of correlations, it wasn't even statistically significant. It was not a controlled study where they assigned one group to formula and one to breast milk then followed these children thru their entire lives. It was a study done via data mining which is not the most accurate way to do a study because it relies on the truth being reported and properly recorded. They said upon further study with a larger group of subjects even the minor correlation would likely disappear. I went on PubMed to try to find more articles to support her claim and there were none. If you didn't understand the raw data and study methodology there is no way you would realize she was full of shit. I am skeptical of any claim that "this CAUSES cancer" because cancer is complex. I could eat meat 24/7 and never develop cancer. My supposed vegan SIL could get it tomorrow. Cancer relies on a complex dance of environmental factors and your individual genetics. How much of a risk do you have of getting cancer by eating meat? How much meat do I need to eat to increase my risk? What is the increase compared to the average populations rate of getting cancer? I rememeber the whole popcorn lung hysteria when it came to microwave popcorn. No you shouldn't eat a lot of it but the people most at risk were factory workers who were exposed daily. The one average citizen who got it stated that he had been eating 3-4 bags of microwave popcorn PER DAY since he was a teenager! Who in their freaking right mind eats that much microwave popcorn?! So to the average maybe 1-2 bag of popcorn eater the chances of developing it were slim to none, but the media sure wasn't telling us that.
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Tiny
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Post by Tiny on Jun 30, 2017 11:34:31 GMT -5
All my favorite "ingredients" for dinner that contain protein
if you are an ovo lacto vegetarian: milk and eggs - so yogurts, cheese, etc
Corn! Chickpeas (hummus, chickpea marsala, chickpeas mixed into salad) Any sort of beans (I like great northern beans or cannellini beans made like hummus OR in any sort of Italian style dish) Any sort of lentil - red, green, brown - as soup or main dish - a stew with onions and spinach or sweetpotatos. Peanut butter! or peanuts or pumpkin seeds (pepitos) potatos (red, gold, blue, pink, sweet, red) mmmmm potatos! spinach avocados broccoli Brussel sprouts (ok, I only like these fresh in the fall from a local farm...) whole grain rice/wild rice (and other grains) and the old stand by: oatmeal!
Not even going to mention tofu or tempeh <-- cause those are typical icky "vegan" foods.
I realize it's hard - because we humans often eat the exact same things over and over and over again - but think we're eating a big variety... it's HARD to switch to other recipes or to even begin to think of other options as "food" or a "meal".
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Tiny
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Post by Tiny on Jun 30, 2017 11:39:42 GMT -5
I don't have a solution for selective eaters or children's diets. I am referring to the sick adult population that should consider eliminating meat and dairy. Decreasing consumption would be a win-win for everyone minus these industries. Yep, and decreasing consumption might not even mean NOT eating meat - instead of eating the 1/2 a rotisserie chicken as a single serving - find a way to stretch that chicken to 4 servings (instead of 2 or one).
A serving size is NOT 8 ounce or 1 pound of 'meat' at each meal.
I can totally see carnivores becoming alittle more omnivore and just cutting back the serving size of meat on their plate and adding in some veggies/grains/fruits and being satisfied AND eating less meat.
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MJ2.0
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Post by MJ2.0 on Jun 30, 2017 11:40:25 GMT -5
I actually don't mind tofu. I prefer the sofritas filling from Chipotle over the meat ones. I just have a hard time cooking it and not having it get mushy. I found a way to make "crispy" tofu, but it's like a 3 hour long process.
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dannylion
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Post by dannylion on Jun 30, 2017 11:43:40 GMT -5
I actually don't mind tofu. I prefer the sofritas filling from Chipotle over the meat ones. I just have a hard time cooking it and not having it get mushy. I found a way to make "crispy" tofu, but it's like a 3 hour long process. I have read that the best way to cook tofu is to use coconut oil.
It makes it easier to scrape it off the pan into the trash.
(Did I mention that I cannot abide tofu? I'd rather eat white chocolate, and white chocolate is an abomination against all that is good and right with the world).
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saveinla
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Post by saveinla on Jun 30, 2017 11:45:27 GMT -5
I actually don't mind tofu. I prefer the sofritas filling from Chipotle over the meat ones. I just have a hard time cooking it and not having it get mushy. I found a way to make "crispy" tofu, but it's like a 3 hour long process. ymam.proboards.com/thread/1371/cook-tofu - thanks to Cookies Galore
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MJ2.0
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Post by MJ2.0 on Jun 30, 2017 11:46:28 GMT -5
LOL! I have used tofu when I've made fried rice or pad thai. It's good because it has protein and takes on whatever flavor you give it... but it's just so dang mushy/chewy.
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gs11rmb
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Post by gs11rmb on Jun 30, 2017 11:47:53 GMT -5
Just yesterday I was posting on the Get Fit thread about how my doctor had recommended meat no more than once a week because of the link between high meat consumption and cancer. I'm eating much more than that right now, trying to shift the last 10 lbs I need to lose. I'm going to try to cut back to once a week when I hit my goal weight but I'm concerned the weight will just slowly return. Does your doctor define meat as anything beef, pork, or lamb or is it a more expanded definition? Anything from an animal. I didn't ask her about dairy.
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MJ2.0
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Post by MJ2.0 on Jun 30, 2017 11:48:33 GMT -5
I actually don't mind tofu. I prefer the sofritas filling from Chipotle over the meat ones. I just have a hard time cooking it and not having it get mushy. I found a way to make "crispy" tofu, but it's like a 3 hour long process. ymam.proboards.com/thread/1371/cook-tofu - thanks to Cookies Galore the process I learned is close to that, but you cook it in the oven instead of pan frying it. The draining alone takes like 1.5-2 hours.
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NomoreDramaQ1015
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Post by NomoreDramaQ1015 on Jun 30, 2017 11:49:58 GMT -5
I actually don't mind tofu. I prefer the sofritas filling from Chipotle over the meat ones. I just have a hard time cooking it and not having it get mushy. I found a way to make "crispy" tofu, but it's like a 3 hour long process. I have read that the best way to cook tofu is to use coconut oil.
It makes it easier to scrape it off the pan into the trash.
(Did I mention that I cannot abide tofu? I'd rather eat white chocolate, and white chocolate is an abomination against all that is good and right with the world).
Coconut Oil is bad for you now. There is a thread somewhere on EE about it. All that research that said it was a super food went down the drain.
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MJ2.0
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Post by MJ2.0 on Jun 30, 2017 11:51:47 GMT -5
ooh, never mind - this is much better and faster. Guess I'm making some thai peanut stir fry this weekend!
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phil5185
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Post by phil5185 on Jun 30, 2017 11:57:34 GMT -5
Over the last 30+ years, I've seen a definite shift to less meat, in the 1970s/80s I raised and butchered a 1100 pound steer every year, I grass-fed them, no grain - very lean beef. Since about 1980 when the "anti red meat" trend started, we eat very little red meat. But IMO we were all given 'appetite' for a reason, it is our bodies way or telling us what it needs.
I drink quite a bit of milk, cheese, eggs, etc - I find it hard to believe that milk (the only food product that newborns can survive on) would be bad for me. Milk is tailored for each species, eg, whale milk is designed for >1000 pounds a month of growth. As for sustainability, one cow produces about 24 quarts per day, enough for about 24 families, if you had a cow you could provide for your whole neighborhood. I'd hate to throw dairy cows under the bus, they are pleasant happy creatures, and they would soon die-out if our culture truly 100% quit using milk (farmers don't feed/care for cows just cuz they make good pets, lol). I like to see nice herds of Holsteins grazing in a creek-fed pasture.
One of our relatives currently has 500 pastured laying hens, they lay about 450 organic eggs daily. My fondness for cattle/hogs doesn't quite cover chickens, lol - but admittedly they probably add more nutrients to the pasture than they take out. And it forces our society to build-in open spaces (paving every piece of land is an affront to sustainability in my world). So I'm not ready to throw them under the bus either. In general, I'm against reducing domesticated livestock to an occasional zoo visit, I would rather see them living pleasantly and producing treats for those of us who want to care for them.
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dannylion
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Post by dannylion on Jun 30, 2017 11:58:10 GMT -5
I have read that the best way to cook tofu is to use coconut oil.
It makes it easier to scrape it off the pan into the trash.
(Did I mention that I cannot abide tofu? I'd rather eat white chocolate, and white chocolate is an abomination against all that is good and right with the world).
Coconut Oil is bad for you now. There is a thread somewhere on EE about it. All that research that said it was a super food went down the drain. But if you're just using it to make tofu easier to transfer from pan to trash, then it's not a problem. It's apparently only a problem if you actually eat it.
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Post by The Walk of the Penguin Mich on Jun 30, 2017 12:03:25 GMT -5
I have read that the best way to cook tofu is to use coconut oil.
It makes it easier to scrape it off the pan into the trash.
(Did I mention that I cannot abide tofu? I'd rather eat white chocolate, and white chocolate is an abomination against all that is good and right with the world).
Coconut Oil is bad for you now. There is a thread somewhere on EE about it. All that research that said it was a super food went down the drain. Yep, it is along the same lines as Crisco, since it is a solid fat at room temperature. Yet another fad.
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thyme4change
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Post by thyme4change on Jun 30, 2017 12:08:28 GMT -5
Most people don't give a shit about nutrition, sustainability or the environment. Any impact of this documentary will be negligible. As long as someone is making money, and the food is cheap and tasty, Americans will continue to snarf it up. Look around. A few suburban hipsters who swear they can save the world by driving their SUV to the farmer's market to get their veges will drive a few marketers to create some niche markets, but the rest of America is going to go to Taco Bell and buy as many items as they can.
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quince
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Post by quince on Jun 30, 2017 12:08:33 GMT -5
I like coconut oil after showering. Our area is cool enough most of the time that it stays semi-solid so it doesn't spill. It's lovely. Meat and dairy aren't going to feel any issues because they are heavily subsidized in the US. Meat SHOULD be more expensive than it is (and people would likely make different choices), but corn--> meat are subsidized so we will keep eating too much beef. Plant based dairy alternatives should be cheaper than actual cow juice, but it isn't.
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MJ2.0
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Post by MJ2.0 on Jun 30, 2017 12:14:31 GMT -5
yes. Get fruits and veggies cheaper and I'm sure you will get people to eat more. But if you're broke and your choice is either 2 items off the Wendy's dollar menu or going to the grocery store to see what you can make that will keep you full for around $2, the decision is pretty clear.
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Tiny
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Post by Tiny on Jun 30, 2017 12:28:12 GMT -5
I actually don't mind tofu. I prefer the sofritas filling from Chipotle over the meat ones. I just have a hard time cooking it and not having it get mushy. I found a way to make "crispy" tofu, but it's like a 3 hour long process. If you grill your sliced marinated tofu - it gets crispy on the outside. You can smoke the tofu too if you have a smoker (just did some for the first time and 12 ounces, marinated and cut into 6 slices took about an hour and 15 minutes in the smoker. I was going to try freezing some of the smoked tofu - but it all got eaten. (If it would freeze and unfreeze in good condition I'd prep a lot for the smoker/grill and then freeze it making it easier to use in future meals. - but I haven't gotten to that yet.)
I've baked/roasted marinated tofu slices (or cubes) and that took about an hour in the oven (or an hour in a fry pan on the stove) where it's gotten a more "crispy" firm outside and a smooth creamy inside.
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Deleted
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Post by Deleted on Jun 30, 2017 12:28:13 GMT -5
Over the years I've cut back on meat and refined sugar and added whole grains and more fresh fruits and vegetables. I've dropped 20 lbs. and can still donate blood and platelets and do sprint triathlons at age 64. Sometimes I laugh at my typical grocery runs - nuts, Brussels sprouts, lentils, bananas- and maybe meat from Costco once a month. Meat is usually a small part of a stir-fry. If a bakery cake get put in front of me once in a blue moon, I'll get the piece with the thickest layer of frosting and thoroughly enjoy it. Moderation.
Sadly, there's a giant segment of the population addicted to fats, fried crap and stuff with high-fructose corn syrup. I doubt many of them will change. To some, overfeeding your family equals love. Others don't know how to cook.
I do plan to watch this. Thanks for the recommendation.
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hoops902
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Post by hoops902 on Jun 30, 2017 12:34:17 GMT -5
Ignoring the agenda and/or accuracy of the documentary. Anyone over the age of 20 should understand that the industry is not going to feel the effects of a documentary in general. It's not going to significantly change the habits of the vast majority of the population. There are far more famous documentaries out there about climate change, eating fast food, etc...none of those has really changed the world. Documentaries don't break news. Documentaries only serve the people who already know these things. It's not as if anyone before this thought "ya know, eating 5 pounds of meat a day is good for me, my doctor said so". People have been spouting the health impacts of eating too much red meat, too much dairy, etc, for years.
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Deleted
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Post by Deleted on Jun 30, 2017 12:41:20 GMT -5
I can totally see carnivores becoming a little more omnivore and just cutting back the serving size of meat on their plate and adding in some veggies/grains/fruits and being satisfied AND eating less meat. [/p]
[/quote] In addition to mutant chicken breasts we have "Iowa-cut" pork chops here that are the size of a small steak. DH and I used to share one. Portion control is important.
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Cookies Galore
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Post by Cookies Galore on Jun 30, 2017 12:57:54 GMT -5
LOL! I have used tofu when I've made fried rice or pad thai. It's good because it has protein and takes on whatever flavor you give it... but it's just so dang mushy/chewy. Try seitan. Yum! Fine for the every so often meal.
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weltschmerz
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Post by weltschmerz on Jun 30, 2017 13:06:35 GMT -5
A serving of meat should be about the size of a deck of playing cards....not two pounds.
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weltschmerz
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Post by weltschmerz on Jun 30, 2017 13:08:43 GMT -5
I dunno. We're a family of 5. Our grocery bills run about 500-550 or so a month. So I'm sure how much more we can save. This is like USDA thrifty plan for us is almost 750/month. We treat meat like a side dish for the most part. We have red meat like twice a month. And then it's chicken or turkey. We have brats once a month or so and pork once a month or so. We have bacon like twice a year. Usually Christmas and Mother's day. I think it's different when you have kids. My 13 yo DS won't stay full eating salads and apples all day long. He just won't. He needs some protein to keep him full. And he's not a complete lover of beans. Personally, I'd rather have him eat some meat than over-indulge on carbs to fill up. And when you start looking at ways to incorporate plant based protein into your diet, that can get pretty expensive. DD1 is a vegetarian and also very active. I found noodles made out of chick peas for her that she loves. One container is $7...serving size is two meals...but with her, she can get three out of them. While we made trade in some costs (like lower health bills to less cancer), we're going to incur other ones..like the costs of having a larger portion of your population living longer. We can't figure out a cost-effective way of caring for the elderly as it is now....I don't think it's going to get better in the future. I'm not following. Regular noodles don't have any animal proteins in them, just durum semolina. Why can't she eat regular pasta?
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Deleted
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Post by Deleted on Jun 30, 2017 14:10:03 GMT -5
Protein. I mean she wants more protein.
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