Texting Teen Suicide

[Shooby]

Is anyone following the case of the teen who texted her BF to commit suicide?

Carter-guilty-involuntary-manslaughter.html

[Shooby]

This link might be better.

www.bostonherald.com/news/local_coverage/2017/06/michelle_carter_found_guilty_in_landmark_texting_suicide_case

[Muscleup]

Yes, I'm following this story very close. However, the girl is now 20 years old and hardly a teen but if you want to call her a teen then be my guest.

I'm thinking the appropriate age for someone to be called a teen is between 13 and 19 although 20 is on the cusp.

Why do you ask?  Are you thinking about encouraging someone to do something?  

Talk to me. The Muscleup is here to help.

[chiver78]

this is right in my backyard, as the boyfriend was found dead 3 or 4 towns away from mine. the local news stations actually broke into daytime coverage to broadcast the verdict live. 

the Boston Globe had a pretty good summary in this link, which answers a few of the most common questions that have come up, and has links to most of the case details that had already been out in the media. 


as the judge said this morning, there were no winners today. 

[Shooby]

Jun 16, 2017 19:43:11 GMT -5 Muscleup said:

Yes, I'm following this story very close. However, the girl is now 20 years old and hardly a teen but if you want to call her a teen then be my guest.

I'm thinking the appropriate age for someone to be called a teen is between 13 and 19 although 20 is on the cusp.

Why do you ask?  Are you thinking about encouraging someone to do something?  

Talk to me. The Muscleup is here to help.

She was 17 when that happened. He was 18.

[chiver78]

Shooby, I'm going to move this thread over to Current Events. I didn't realize it was here in EE until just now. you'll likely get more thread traffic for a current court case there, as well. 

-chiver mod. 

[ZaireinHD]

I saw on the news yesterday! GUILTY!!!

I was or I am shocked!

I just knew she was going to get away with it. and go home and put this behind her as a mistake of a teenager!

but she is going to jail!

WOW

[chiver78]

UPDATE: today was sentencing. seems to me that she got a slap on the wrist. the highlight for me was that the judge granted a defense motion that she stay out of jail until all her appeals have been exhausted. 

Boston Globe coverage of sentencing

[chiver78]

well this was an interesting read....


Amanda Knox on sentencing - too much

[Shooby]

The mother is suing her for $4.2M.  I mean what will really be gained from that?  She has no money?  Or will that garnish her wages for life, etc?  

[Rob Base 2.0]

Yep it will garnish most of her wages for life, ala OJ

[billisonboard]

Aug 5, 2017 8:12:56 GMT -5 Shooby said:

The mother is suing her for $4.2M.  I mean what will really be gained from that?  She has no money?  Or will that garnish her wages for life, etc?  

Who knows what the future may bring: Amanda Knox Gets $4 Million Book Deal With HarperCollins

[ZaireinHD]

yea! I thought the same! she has no money?

talk about aggressive bill collecting!

[tractor]

Aug 5, 2017 8:12:56 GMT -5 Shooby said:

The mother is suing her for $4.2M.  I mean what will really be gained from that?  She has no money?  Or will that garnish her wages for life, etc?  

I think you will see this more and more, it helps prevent the accused from signing a book or movie deal a year or two down the road and profiting from their actions. I can see it now "texted to death, the true story of ....". I don't think anyone ever expects to get paid, but if they win, I'm sure their goal is to ruin her life like she did to their son.

[justme]

While I do think what she texted was horrible, if she honestly has mental issues of her own I don't we can look at her as having this plan to make sure he died.

Codependency can fuck you up. And I believe he had tried to commit suicide several times. And that he also vented to her instead of an adult with experience in those matters. What all that can do to the mind of a 16 year old is probably not good, even more so when she has her own issues.

[Miss Tequila]

Aug 5, 2017 19:59:18 GMT -5 justme said:

While I do think what she texted was horrible, if she honestly has mental issues of her own I don't we can look at her as having this plan to make sure he died.

Codependency can fuck you up. And I believe he had tried to commit suicide several times. And that he also vented to her instead of an adult with experience in those matters. What all that can do to the mind of a 16 year old is probably not good, even more so when she has her own issues.

I am completely horrified at what she did...but I really don't see how she can be found guilty. Someone can text me all they want and tell me to kill myself but I'm certainly not going to do it. I think she is a disgusting person but I am honestly surprised that she is guilty. 

[dee27]

Frankly, I am surprised she was found guilty because he attempted suicide before and both had mental health issues that hindered clear judgment. Knowing his history, did his parents do anything to prevent his suicide? They wanted someone to blame for his death other than themselves. Her comments to her friend were despicable not criminal, and I think she grew weary of his threats to commit suicide. 

[Miss Tequila]

Aug 7, 2017 16:24:30 GMT -5 dee27 said:

Frankly, I am surprised she was found guilty because he attempted suicide before and both had mental health issues that hindered clear judgment. Knowing his history, did his parents do anything to prevent his suicide? They wanted someone to blame for his death other than themselves. Her comments to her friend were despicable not criminal, and I think she grew weary of his threats to commit suicide. 

I can't help but wonder if the jury found her guilty because she is a cold hearted, awful person. I honesty don't see how words can get you held responsible for someone's death. That's a very slippery slope to me

[dee27]

Aug 7, 2017 18:40:34 GMT -5 Miss Tequila said:

Aug 7, 2017 16:24:30 GMT -5 dee27 said:

Frankly, I am surprised she was found guilty because he attempted suicide before and both had mental health issues that hindered clear judgment. Knowing his history, did his parents do anything to prevent his suicide? They wanted someone to blame for his death other than themselves. Her comments to her friend were despicable not criminal, and I think she grew weary of his threats to commit suicide. 

I can't help but wonder if the jury found her guilty because she is a cold hearted, awful person. I honesty don't see how words can get you held responsible for someone's death. That's a very slippery slope to me

I wonder if she was just exasperated and said okay, do it. That is not a criminal offense, but she was aloof and cold hearted.

[billisonboard]

Aug 7, 2017 18:40:34 GMT -5 Miss Tequila said:

... the jury found her guilty ... I honesty don't see how words can get you held responsible for someone's death. ...

Judge finds Michelle Carter guilty ...

I honestly can see how you don't see.

[OldCoyote]

This causes me concern,   On the numbers of ways that this could be construed,

When I owned the drycleaners, I had a young woman working for me.  Her name was Allie,  She was super bi polar!

She had already tried to commit suicide a couple of times before she went to work for me.

She would cut and burn herself!   She would pay an hours wage on a super duper cup of Starbucks, but would not buy her own medicine.. In attempt to help I would pay for the medicine.

I don't think she took it regularly any way.

Her mother intercepted one of her suicide attempts,  I think she enjoyed the fact that she caused her mother so much concern!

Anyway, she was leaving for a job at Mayo clinic, I think her Dad got her a job there,   Before leaving, she stole money and clothes from the store.

I called the police, filed a report, nothing happened that I know of.  I had hard feelings over the parting,  So a couple years later, I started to look up Allie.

My Face, My Space,  I found Allie, where her Mother had posted her on the Suicide Wall,,   In all reality, looking back, All Allie needed was a time and place to kill herself without some one stopping her!!

It was going to happen!!

I guess my point is, All it would take is an overzealous prosecutor that decided that I should have known it was going to happen, Didn't stop it.

[Shooby]

  This girl is a horrible person.  However, she also had her own mental health issues as well. This is a very difficult case because it went beyond her just saying "go kill yourself" to actively planning and telling him 'get back in the car", knowing that he was stepping in to a lethal environment.  So, if they had planned this level of detail to kill someone else, would she be charged as an accessory to murder.  I think that the level of participation is what is raises the bar in this case. 

 However, the notion that someone "causes" another's suicide removes the responsibility from the person who takes their own life.  Everyone has a choice.  He could have walked away, told her to F off or any number of things.  The person who caused is death is him.  Now, she is a horrible person.  And, a souless human being no doubt.  But, for others to always lay blame, we are only teaching people that others have power over them instead of teaching people to have power over their own lives.  Killing yourself over bullies is saying that the words of the bullies matter more to you than the words of the people who love you.  We need to teach grit and resilience and stop teaching kids to be offended and crumble over the smallest slights. 
 But, yes, social media really makes it a heavy onslaught but one can TURN THEIR PHONE OFF.
  

[Tennesseer]

Aug 8, 2017 7:11:27 GMT -5 OldCoyote said:

This causes me concern,   On the numbers of ways that this could be construed,

When I owned the drycleaners, I had a young woman working for me.  Her name was Allie,  She was super bi polar!

She had already tried to commit suicide a couple of times before she went to work for me.

She would cut and burn herself!   She would pay an hours wage on a super duper cup of Starbucks, but would not buy her own medicine.. In attempt to help I would pay for the medicine.

I don't think she took it regularly any way.

Her mother intercepted one of her suicide attempts,  I think she enjoyed the fact that she caused her mother so much concern!

Anyway, she was leaving for a job at Mayo clinic, I think her Dad got her a job there,   Before leaving, she stole money and clothes from the store.

I called the police, filed a report, nothing happened that I know of.  I had hard feelings over the parting,  So a couple years later, I started to look up Allie.

My Face, My Space,  I found Allie, where her Mother had posted her on the Suicide Wall,,   In all reality, looking back, All Allie needed was a time and place to kill herself without some one stopping her!!

It was going to happen!!

I guess my point is, All it would take is an overzealous prosecutor that decided that I should have known it was going to happen, Didn't stop it.

Were you actively encouraging her to continue committing suicide while she was actively doing it? No you were not. So not to worry.

And what's up with you and highly dysfunctional employees?

[Tennesseer]

Aug 8, 2017 7:19:40 GMT -5 Shooby said:

  This girl is a horrible person.  However, she also had her own mental health issues as well. This is a very difficult case because it went beyond her just saying "go kill yourself" to actively planning and telling him 'get back in the car", knowing that he was stepping in to a lethal environment.  So, if they had planned this level of detail to kill someone else, would she be charged as an accessory to murder.  I think that the level of participation is what is raises the bar in this case. 

 However, the notion that someone "causes" another's suicide removes the responsibility from the person who takes their own life.  Everyone has a choice.  He could have walked away, told her to F off or any number of things.  The person who caused is death is him.  Now, she is a horrible person.  And, a souless human being no doubt.  But, for others to always lay blame, we are only teaching people that others have power over them instead of teaching people to have power over their own lives.  Killing yourself over bullies is saying that the words of the bullies matter more to you than the words of the people who love you.  We need to teach grit and resilience and stop teaching kids to be offended and crumble over the smallest slights. 
 But, yes, social media really makes it a heavy onslaught but one can TURN THEIR PHONE OFF.
  

Turning off severe depression is not as easy as turning off a computer or phone.

[OldCoyote]

highly dysfunctional employer

I keep making the mistake of trying to help people,, Proven again, No good deed goes unpunished!

[Tennesseer]

Aug 8, 2017 7:38:34 GMT -5 OldCoyote said:

highly dysfunctional employer

I keep making the mistake of trying to help people,, Proven again, No good deed goes unpunished!

I made that mistake once. I recommeded someone for hire who in her previous job as a taxi driver had a passenger attack her with a knife and stabbed and slashed her multiple times. She had a few skills that would have helped her in the job. But her personal problems overwhelmed her available skills.

She did not last long in the job. That was though the only time I made that mistake.

[billisonboard]

Aug 8, 2017 7:11:27 GMT -5 OldCoyote said:

...
I guess my point is, All it would take is an overzealous prosecutor that decided that I should have known it was going to happen, Didn't stop it.

All to charge you, yes. It would take more to convict you.

I agree this case raises serious concerns. And I think it is important that they be raised. It does not mean in the very specifics of this case that the judge was wrong to find her guilty. It means future cases need to be careful in applying any lesson from this one.