Suicide and Money

[Miss Tequila]

May 14, 2017 23:14:07 GMT -5 beergut said:

May 14, 2017 13:24:45 GMT -5 Miss Tequila said:

I don't k ow what you mean. I was sincere when I said that thought process was bizarre to me. As a mom I would never accept that my child was so desperate that they committed suicide and I would forever be weighed down with guilt that I couldn't prevent it

Mom-signalling is a spin-off of virtue signalling, and almost as annoying. Virtue signalling is calling out something that has happened in a manner to call attention to how virtuous you are. It is very common among SJW bloggers. "Look at this horrible racist thing that happened, and if I had been there, it wouldn't have happened, because I would have called it out for the horrible racist thing it is and stopped it, etc, etc, etc." Essentially, it is fishing for compliments on what a wonderful virtuous person you are. 

Mom-signalling is similar, but instead of saying, "This horrible racist thing happened", they say, "I can't believe this horrible racist thing happened, as a mother I try to teach my children that we're all equal under God, so they don't see color or orientation or creed, etc, etc, etc." I.e. look what an amazing mom I am because my kids aren't like that, and I'm telling you how I am the reason they're not like that right now, so compliment me.

It doesn't have to include a social justice issue like racism, it can be just as easily applied to other situation, like this one on suicide. "Well, I love my kid, and let me tell you, I'd do ANYTHING and EVERYTHING necessary to help them if they were depressed or suicidal, because I just love my kid so much, you just can't understand the love between a mother and child." Whether you realize it or not, you're mom-signalling, fishing for compliments on what a great mother you are. 

No, I'm wondering how any mother can be ok with their kid committing suicide because they want to. If that is your bar for someone thinking they are a great mother then you have a REALLY low bar of what makes a good mom. Keeping your kids alive should be a given. I certainly wouldn't expect anyone to compliment me on not wanting my kid to die. If that's annoying to you that is your issue

[Miss Tequila]

May 15, 2017 5:22:31 GMT -5 Shooby said:

  Huh?  Who is constantly making up all these new idiotic terms?  

Haha. I just crack up at these boards. Apparently not wanting your kid to die is annoying now. Good lord. Let's stop all suicide prevention and let everyone decide for themselves if they should kill them selves. Think of the health care dollars saved!

[Tennesseer]

May 14, 2017 15:17:11 GMT -5 MJ2.0 said:

May 14, 2017 15:07:46 GMT -5 justme said:

People would need easy affordable access to Healthcare in order to do that.

You don't need affordable healthcare, you just need grit and determination.

Yet suicide oftenly still wins. Does it mean the person lacked grit and determination? No it doesn't. It just mean the demons were stronger.

[NomoreDramaQ1015]

May 14, 2017 15:07:46 GMT -5 justme said:

May 14, 2017 8:16:40 GMT -5 Shooby said:

  Seems to me one would want to work harder to fix the underlying problem of depression.  

People would need easy affordable access to mental Healthcare in order to do that.

Fixed.   Even if you can still get great awesome health insurance if they manage to repeal the ACA your insurance may still refuse to cover MENTAL health care.   Then on top of that some of the medications to treat these issues are not cheap so if your prescription insurance refuses to cover them. .

That's one of the things I agreed with concerning the ACA.   Mental health coverage is just as important as being able to get coverage for cancer.   It's something this country and the current batch of idiots in office don't seem to understand.

Yes there will always be people who choose not to get care for one reason or another but those resources should be available and easily accessible.

We do have a county mental health office that operates on a sliding scale but they have a massive waiting list.  It can be months before you get in to be seen and by then your issues may have escalated.

[MJ2.0]

May 15, 2017 8:14:34 GMT -5 Tennesseer said:

May 14, 2017 15:17:11 GMT -5 MJ2.0 said:

You don't need affordable healthcare, you just need grit and determination.

Yet suicide oftenly still wins. Does it mean the person lacked grit and determination? No it doesn't. It just mean the demons were stronger.

my comment was tongue-in-cheek.

[Tennesseer]

May 15, 2017 8:21:37 GMT -5 MJ2.0 said:

May 15, 2017 8:14:34 GMT -5 Tennesseer said:

Yet suicide oftenly still wins. Does it mean the person lacked grit and determination? No it doesn't. It just mean the demons were stronger.

my comment was tongue-in-cheek.

Good to know. I had a hard time imagining you being so cold regarding folks in trouble.

[MJ2.0]

no way. I have been close to the edge a few times. I can say that I understand why people might think that's the only/best answer or why people abuse alcohol/drugs. Of course it's not something that we want people to do, but we also need to realize that our current assessment and treatment of depressed/mentally ill/drug-addicted people needs drastic change.

[raeoflyte]

The issues aren't always fixable.  You can't keep someone locked up for 70 years who isn't a threat to other people.  Love and support may be never ending, but money and resources are finite, decisions have to be made and priorities are chosen.  Even with all the money in the world you can't fix everything.  

[swamp]

May 15, 2017 5:27:10 GMT -5 Miss Tequila said:

May 14, 2017 23:14:07 GMT -5 beergut said:

Mom-signalling is a spin-off of virtue signalling, and almost as annoying. Virtue signalling is calling out something that has happened in a manner to call attention to how virtuous you are. It is very common among SJW bloggers. "Look at this horrible racist thing that happened, and if I had been there, it wouldn't have happened, because I would have called it out for the horrible racist thing it is and stopped it, etc, etc, etc." Essentially, it is fishing for compliments on what a wonderful virtuous person you are. 

Mom-signalling is similar, but instead of saying, "This horrible racist thing happened", they say, "I can't believe this horrible racist thing happened, as a mother I try to teach my children that we're all equal under God, so they don't see color or orientation or creed, etc, etc, etc." I.e. look what an amazing mom I am because my kids aren't like that, and I'm telling you how I am the reason they're not like that right now, so compliment me.

It doesn't have to include a social justice issue like racism, it can be just as easily applied to other situation, like this one on suicide. "Well, I love my kid, and let me tell you, I'd do ANYTHING and EVERYTHING necessary to help them if they were depressed or suicidal, because I just love my kid so much, you just can't understand the love between a mother and child." Whether you realize it or not, you're mom-signalling, fishing for compliments on what a great mother you are. 

No, I'm wondering how any mother can be ok with their kid committing suicide because they want to. If that is your bar for someone thinking they are a great mother then you have a REALLY low bar of what makes a good mom. Keeping your kids alive should be a given. I certainly wouldn't expect anyone to compliment me on not wanting my kid to die. If that's annoying to you that is your issue

I would never be ok with it. But I also realize I can't fix someone unless they want fixing.

[imawino]

May 14, 2017 13:27:23 GMT -5 Miss Tequila said:

May 14, 2017 10:00:19 GMT -5 milee said:

It's bizarre to me that someone would think they have the necessary knowledge or the right to dictate to another person what that other person does to his/her body.  But it's also bizarre to me that someone would think they are able to "fix" another person's mental health issues.  

Recognizing that every person has certain personal rights does not mean that I agree with their decision or that I wouldn't try to help, persuade or support that person.  

Then we will have to agree to disagree. When it comes to my child there is no way I wouldn't do everything I could to get get the help she needed to get better. I would never accept suicide, even if it meant locking her up and doing whatever I had to do to prevent it. I do realize that isn't always the option but I would damn well fight her every step of the way.

Do you think that institutionalizing your child for years that they live in misery wishing they could kill themselves is kinder to them?  Or is it just kinder to you?  Which is more important?  Which is more selfish?  Why is it unforgiveable for a suicidal person to be selfish but okay for someone who wants to keep them alive for their sake to be selfish? 

   

[imawino]

May 15, 2017 10:53:59 GMT -5 swamp said:

May 15, 2017 5:27:10 GMT -5 Miss Tequila said:

No, I'm wondering how any mother can be ok with their kid committing suicide because they want to. If that is your bar for someone thinking they are a great mother then you have a REALLY low bar of what makes a good mom. Keeping your kids alive should be a given. I certainly wouldn't expect anyone to compliment me on not wanting my kid to die. If that's annoying to you that is your issue

I would never be ok with it. But I also realize I can't fix someone unless they want fixing.

Agreed - and even people who want fixing can't always be fixed.  It would be awesome if there was a magic pill but there's not. 

And I think we can all agree that no one on here has said they were "ok with" their children or anyone else committing suicide.   Refusing to vilify people for having struggles that you cannot possibly understand that lead to suicidal thoughts or actions is not the same as being totally cool with your child dying.  Any attempts to frame it that way are ridiculous. 

[MJ2.0]

I think that overall if we showed more empathy toward others instead of judgement, we'd all be a lot happier and better off.

[NomoreDramaQ1015]

I think people often confuse empathy and sympathy.   You can put yourself into someone's shoes without having to feel sorry for them.

[Miss Tequila]

May 15, 2017 10:53:59 GMT -5 swamp said:

May 15, 2017 5:27:10 GMT -5 Miss Tequila said:

No, I'm wondering how any mother can be ok with their kid committing suicide because they want to. If that is your bar for someone thinking they are a great mother then you have a REALLY low bar of what makes a good mom. Keeping your kids alive should be a given. I certainly wouldn't expect anyone to compliment me on not wanting my kid to die. If that's annoying to you that is your issue

I would never be ok with it. But I also realize I can't fix someone unless they want fixing.

But that is much different than saying you respect their right to choose what to do with their own body.  That was the attitude I couldn't understand. I don't understand mental illness and God willing I will never have to, but I do understand that a mentally healthy person doesn't usually commit suicide (terminal illness, aside).  A mentally ill person needs help not being told it is their body and they can choose to do what they want.   Ultimately I get that it isn't always easy to prevent suicide if someone is that for gone mentally. But the attitude of "it is their right to choose" made me scratch my head.

 

[Shooby]

May 15, 2017 12:05:37 GMT -5 MJ2.0 said:

I think that overall if we showed more empathy toward others instead of judgement, we'd all be a lot happier and better off.

Perhaps we should start with this Board?

[MJ2.0]

May 15, 2017 13:32:13 GMT -5 Shooby said:

May 15, 2017 12:05:37 GMT -5 MJ2.0 said:

I think that overall if we showed more empathy toward others instead of judgement, we'd all be a lot happier and better off.

Perhaps we should start with this Board?

good idea!

[Miss Tequila]

May 15, 2017 8:35:10 GMT -5 MJ2.0 said:

no way. I have been close to the edge a few times. I can say that I understand why people might think that's the only/best answer or why people abuse alcohol/drugs. Of course it's not something that we want people to do, but we also need to realize that our current assessment and treatment of depressed/mentally ill/drug-addicted people needs drastic change.

The best way to treat drug addiction is to prevent it from happening in the first place. Heroin addiction is extremely hard to kick and right now we are in the middle of an epidemic (unless all of the news reports are exaggerated). But last time I said something like that on this board about heroin being really bad I was caught off guard by the number of people arguing against me (or maybe this board just likes to argue with anything I say!lol)...so if the public doesn't think it is that bad then there isn't much we can do to prevent it. 

[MJ2.0]

May 15, 2017 13:43:49 GMT -5 Miss Tequila said:

May 15, 2017 8:35:10 GMT -5 MJ2.0 said:

no way. I have been close to the edge a few times. I can say that I understand why people might think that's the only/best answer or why people abuse alcohol/drugs. Of course it's not something that we want people to do, but we also need to realize that our current assessment and treatment of depressed/mentally ill/drug-addicted people needs drastic change.

The best way to treat drug addiction is to prevent it from happening in the first place. Heroin addiction is extremely hard to kick and right now we are in the middle of an epidemic (unless all of the news reports are exaggerated). But last time I said something like that on this board about heroin being really bad I was caught off guard by the number of people arguing against me (or maybe this board just likes to argue with anything I say!lol)...so if the public doesn't think it is that bad then there isn't much we can do to prevent it. 

It's just you.


I agree with you that heroin is really bad, but saying the best way to beat something is to prevent it doesn't really help the people who are addicted and trying to get clean. Also, isn't it the case that a good deal of heroin addicts were getting opioids as pain killers, got addicted to those, and turned to heroin as an alternative when those pills got too expensive/hard to get? It would be hard to tell those people they could have prevented the abuse when they were originally given the substance by a doctor.

I don't even pretend to have the answers. I just know that the reasons why people get into/addicted to drugs or become suicidal are complex and varied.

[Lizard Queen]

May 15, 2017 13:29:26 GMT -5 Miss Tequila said:

May 15, 2017 10:53:59 GMT -5 swamp said:

I would never be ok with it. But I also realize I can't fix someone unless they want fixing.

But that is much different than saying you respect their right to choose what to do with their own body.  That was the attitude I couldn't understand. I don't understand mental illness and God willing I will never have to, but I do understand that a mentally healthy person doesn't usually commit suicide (terminal illness, aside).  A mentally ill person needs help not being told it is their body and they can choose to do what they want.   Ultimately I get that it isn't always easy to prevent suicide if someone is that for gone mentally. But the attitude of "it is their right to choose" made me scratch my head.

 

Look at why a mentally healthy person would turn to suicide: to avoid pain, and to stop being a burden on others when their quality of life is nil. Wouldn't those be the same reasons for a mentally ill person to commit suicide (barring psychotic visions and the sort)? The only difference between the two is the hope that things might get better, i.e the pain subsides and quality of life improves. A depressed person does not have that hope.

[The Walk of the Penguin Mich]

May 15, 2017 14:16:44 GMT -5 Lizard Queen said:

May 15, 2017 13:29:26 GMT -5 Miss Tequila said:

But that is much different than saying you respect their right to choose what to do with their own body.  That was the attitude I couldn't understand. I don't understand mental illness and God willing I will never have to, but I do understand that a mentally healthy person doesn't usually commit suicide (terminal illness, aside).  A mentally ill person needs help not being told it is their body and they can choose to do what they want.   Ultimately I get that it isn't always easy to prevent suicide if someone is that for gone mentally. But the attitude of "it is their right to choose" made me scratch my head.

 

Look at why a mentally healthy person would turn to suicide: to avoid pain, and to stop being a burden on others when their quality of life is nil. Wouldn't those be the same reasons for a mentally ill person to commit suicide (barring psychotic visions and the sort)? The only difference between the two is the hope that things might get better, i.e the pain subsides and quality of life improves. A depressed person does not have that hope.

This, x100.  One of the reasons why the thought of suicide for me was brief, was that I KNEW my pain was going to decrease.  Maybe not this week, or next....but maybe next month.  However, until my pain didn't give the hint of abating I could not even start to see into the future any further than my next dose of pain meds, and let me tell you, this is a crappy way to live.

When hope is gone, so is the will to live.

[swamp]

May 15, 2017 13:32:13 GMT -5 Shooby said:

May 15, 2017 12:05:37 GMT -5 MJ2.0 said:

I think that overall if we showed more empathy toward others instead of judgement, we'd all be a lot happier and better off.

Perhaps we should start with this Board?

No. I prefer to tell people Tough Taters.

[Shooby]

May 15, 2017 15:31:16 GMT -5 swamp said:

May 15, 2017 13:32:13 GMT -5 Shooby said:

Perhaps we should start with this Board?

No. I prefer to tell people Tough Taters.

Good work!

[beergut]

May 15, 2017 5:27:10 GMT -5 Miss Tequila said:

May 14, 2017 23:14:07 GMT -5 beergut said:

Mom-signalling is a spin-off of virtue signalling, and almost as annoying. Virtue signalling is calling out something that has happened in a manner to call attention to how virtuous you are. It is very common among SJW bloggers. "Look at this horrible racist thing that happened, and if I had been there, it wouldn't have happened, because I would have called it out for the horrible racist thing it is and stopped it, etc, etc, etc." Essentially, it is fishing for compliments on what a wonderful virtuous person you are. 

Mom-signalling is similar, but instead of saying, "This horrible racist thing happened", they say, "I can't believe this horrible racist thing happened, as a mother I try to teach my children that we're all equal under God, so they don't see color or orientation or creed, etc, etc, etc." I.e. look what an amazing mom I am because my kids aren't like that, and I'm telling you how I am the reason they're not like that right now, so compliment me.

It doesn't have to include a social justice issue like racism, it can be just as easily applied to other situation, like this one on suicide. "Well, I love my kid, and let me tell you, I'd do ANYTHING and EVERYTHING necessary to help them if they were depressed or suicidal, because I just love my kid so much, you just can't understand the love between a mother and child." Whether you realize it or not, you're mom-signalling, fishing for compliments on what a great mother you are. 

No, I'm wondering how any mother can be ok with their kid committing suicide because they want to. If that is your bar for someone thinking they are a great mother then you have a REALLY low bar of what makes a good mom. Keeping your kids alive should be a given. I certainly wouldn't expect anyone to compliment me on not wanting my kid to die. If that's annoying to you that is your issue

You're missing the point. Excluding the completely deranged/Munchausen by proxy mothers, no mothers want their kids to commit suicide. Saying wouldn't be okay with your kid committing suicide is simply stating the obvious. Talking about how you would sell EVERYTHING to make sure you kid gets the help they need is the mom-signaling. The vast majority of mothers will do whatever they can to help their kids, stating that doesn't make you unique or special. The fact that you feel the need to state it is where you are fishing for compliments. 

[beergut]

May 15, 2017 14:47:45 GMT -5 The Walk of the Penguin Mich said:

May 15, 2017 14:16:44 GMT -5 Lizard Queen said:

Look at why a mentally healthy person would turn to suicide: to avoid pain, and to stop being a burden on others when their quality of life is nil. Wouldn't those be the same reasons for a mentally ill person to commit suicide (barring psychotic visions and the sort)? The only difference between the two is the hope that things might get better, i.e the pain subsides and quality of life improves. A depressed person does not have that hope.

This, x100.  One of the reasons why the thought of suicide for me was brief, was that I KNEW my pain was going to decrease.  Maybe not this week, or next....but maybe next month.  However, until my pain didn't give the hint of abating I could not even start to see into the future any further than my next dose of pain meds, and let me tell you, this is a crappy way to live.

When hope is gone, so is the will to live.

You just needed more grit and determination 

[msventoux]

May 15, 2017 23:05:27 GMT -5 beergut said:

May 15, 2017 5:27:10 GMT -5 Miss Tequila said:

No, I'm wondering how any mother can be ok with their kid committing suicide because they want to. If that is your bar for someone thinking they are a great mother then you have a REALLY low bar of what makes a good mom. Keeping your kids alive should be a given. I certainly wouldn't expect anyone to compliment me on not wanting my kid to die. If that's annoying to you that is your issue

You're missing the point. Excluding the completely deranged/Munchausen by proxy mothers, no mothers want their kids to commit suicide. Saying wouldn't be okay with your kid committing suicide is simply stating the obvious. Talking about how you would sell EVERYTHING to make sure you kid gets the help they need is the mom-signaling. The vast majority of mothers will do whatever they can to help their kids, stating that doesn't make you unique or special. The fact that you feel the need to state it is where you are fishing for compliments. 

I don't think she's fishing for compliments. I think she's somewhat naively thinking that she could fix the problem given enough time and resources. And I would think that would be the gut reaction of a majority of parents.

That was the reaction of many parents I know when they were confronted with finding out their kids had addiction or mental health issues. And some did come close to bankrupting themselves and destroyed some of their marriages. Mostly to no avail. The kids didn't want help and sabotaged all efforts. You can try to keep the kids alive until they want help, but some of them are in their 40's and still not to that point yet. It's easy to state you would do XYZ and have this good outcome...until you actually have to live through the scenario.

[Miss Tequila]

May 15, 2017 14:02:52 GMT -5 MJ2.0 said:

May 15, 2017 13:43:49 GMT -5 Miss Tequila said:

The best way to treat drug addiction is to prevent it from happening in the first place. Heroin addiction is extremely hard to kick and right now we are in the middle of an epidemic (unless all of the news reports are exaggerated). But last time I said something like that on this board about heroin being really bad I was caught off guard by the number of people arguing against me (or maybe this board just likes to argue with anything I say!lol)...so if the public doesn't think it is that bad then there isn't much we can do to prevent it. 

It's just you.


I agree with you that heroin is really bad, but saying the best way to beat something is to prevent it doesn't really help the people who are addicted and trying to get clean. Also, isn't it the case that a good deal of heroin addicts were getting opioids as pain killers, got addicted to those, and turned to heroin as an alternative when those pills got too expensive/hard to get? It would be hard to tell those people they could have prevented the abuse when they were originally given the substance by a doctor.

I don't even pretend to have the answers. I just know that the reasons why people get into/addicted to drugs or become suicidal are complex and varied.

I obviously don't have answers, either.  I just have very little sympathy for someone who willingly chooses to take heroin that first time.  No matter what anyone on here says, it is widely publicized that heroin is very addictive and hard to kick.  Don't take it in the first place.

And I do know that there are a lot of people addicted to Oxy that switch to heroin.  But there are also lots and lots of people that take heroin because they fall into the wrong crowd and somehow think it is a good idea.  Those are the people that I lack sympathy for.  I can't tell you how many local news stories I see with young kids (late teens/early 20s) dying of heroin OD.  These are not kids that got hooked because of prescriptions.  I just don't know what they hell they are thinking. 

crehab.org/blog/addiction/what-are-the-addiction-recovery-rates-for-heroin/

I haven't done a ton of research but this article states that heroin addiction could have as little as a 20% recovery rate.  It probably sounds cruel but I can't see dumping a ton of money into addicts (addicts that CHOSE to take heroin) that have such a low recovery rate.  I would rather spend the money on helping the younger kids not take heroin in the first place. 

[Miss Tequila]

May 15, 2017 23:05:27 GMT -5 beergut said:

May 15, 2017 5:27:10 GMT -5 Miss Tequila said:

No, I'm wondering how any mother can be ok with their kid committing suicide because they want to. If that is your bar for someone thinking they are a great mother then you have a REALLY low bar of what makes a good mom. Keeping your kids alive should be a given. I certainly wouldn't expect anyone to compliment me on not wanting my kid to die. If that's annoying to you that is your issue

You're missing the point. Excluding the completely deranged/Munchausen by proxy mothers, no mothers want their kids to commit suicide. Saying wouldn't be okay with your kid committing suicide is simply stating the obvious. Talking about how you would sell EVERYTHING to make sure you kid gets the help they need is the mom-signaling. The vast majority of mothers will do whatever they can to help their kids, stating that doesn't make you unique or special. The fact that you feel the need to state it is where you are fishing for compliments. 

hahaha...whatever makes you happy

You can think what you want but milee's attitude of "it's their body, their choice" sounds counter to everything I believe AS A MOM...and it shocked me that she feels that way.  If that makes me "insert whatever you think about me" that's ok with me.  I can actually live just fine with a random internet person thinking I'm less than the awesome person that I am

[Miss Tequila]

May 15, 2017 23:26:39 GMT -5 msventoux said:

May 15, 2017 23:05:27 GMT -5 beergut said:

You're missing the point. Excluding the completely deranged/Munchausen by proxy mothers, no mothers want their kids to commit suicide. Saying wouldn't be okay with your kid committing suicide is simply stating the obvious. Talking about how you would sell EVERYTHING to make sure you kid gets the help they need is the mom-signaling. The vast majority of mothers will do whatever they can to help their kids, stating that doesn't make you unique or special. The fact that you feel the need to state it is where you are fishing for compliments. 

I don't think she's fishing for compliments. I think she's somewhat naively thinking that she could fix the problem given enough time and resources. And I would think that would be the gut reaction of a majority of parents.

That was the reaction of many parents I know when they were confronted with finding out their kids had addiction or mental health issues. And some did come close to bankrupting themselves and destroyed some of their marriages. Mostly to no avail. The kids didn't want help and sabotaged all efforts. You can try to keep the kids alive until they want help, but some of them are in their 40's and still not to that point yet. It's easy to state you would do XYZ and have this good outcome...until you actually have to live through the scenario.

And that's why he doesn't get it...he isn't a parent.

And I can fully accept that I am naïve in believing that I could "fix" my kid.  I'm a Type A personality.  We don't cave, we fix!lol 

[Miss Tequila]

May 15, 2017 14:16:44 GMT -5 Lizard Queen said:

May 15, 2017 13:29:26 GMT -5 Miss Tequila said:

But that is much different than saying you respect their right to choose what to do with their own body.  That was the attitude I couldn't understand. I don't understand mental illness and God willing I will never have to, but I do understand that a mentally healthy person doesn't usually commit suicide (terminal illness, aside).  A mentally ill person needs help not being told it is their body and they can choose to do what they want.   Ultimately I get that it isn't always easy to prevent suicide if someone is that for gone mentally. But the attitude of "it is their right to choose" made me scratch my head.

 

Look at why a mentally healthy person would turn to suicide: to avoid pain, and to stop being a burden on others when their quality of life is nil. Wouldn't those be the same reasons for a mentally ill person to commit suicide (barring psychotic visions and the sort)? The only difference between the two is the hope that things might get better, i.e the pain subsides and quality of life improves. A depressed person does not have that hope.

I get that....but I would never have the attitude of "their body, their choice". A mentally ill person needs help not affirmation that they have the right to kill themselves. I might not be able to fix my daughter but I damn well would try.

[Deleted]

May 16, 2017 8:40:32 GMT -5 Miss Tequila said:

May 15, 2017 14:02:52 GMT -5 MJ2.0 said:

It's just you.


I agree with you that heroin is really bad, but saying the best way to beat something is to prevent it doesn't really help the people who are addicted and trying to get clean. Also, isn't it the case that a good deal of heroin addicts were getting opioids as pain killers, got addicted to those, and turned to heroin as an alternative when those pills got too expensive/hard to get? It would be hard to tell those people they could have prevented the abuse when they were originally given the substance by a doctor.

I don't even pretend to have the answers. I just know that the reasons why people get into/addicted to drugs or become suicidal are complex and varied.

I obviously don't have answers, either.  I just have very little sympathy for someone who willingly chooses to take heroin that first time.  No matter what anyone on here says, it is widely publicized that heroin is very addictive and hard to kick.  Don't take it in the first place.

And I do know that there are a lot of people addicted to Oxy that switch to heroin.  But there are also lots and lots of people that take heroin because they fall into the wrong crowd and somehow think it is a good idea.  Those are the people that I lack sympathy for.  I can't tell you how many local news stories I see with young kids (late teens/early 20s) dying of heroin OD.  These are not kids that got hooked because of prescriptions.  I just don't know what they hell they are thinking. 

crehab.org/blog/addiction/what-are-the-addiction-recovery-rates-for-heroin/

I haven't done a ton of research but this article states that heroin addiction could have as little as a 20% recovery rate.  It probably sounds cruel but I can't see dumping a ton of money into addicts (addicts that CHOSE to take heroin) that have such a low recovery rate.  I would rather spend the money on helping the younger kids not take heroin in the first place. 

But, what if this was YOUR kid that did something stupid?  Earlier you were saying you wouldn't "let" a loved one kill themselves.  Now you're saying the heroin addicts aren't worth trying to fix.  (I'm neither agreeing nor disagreeing with you, just pointing out the inconsistency)