Shall I explain what happened with ObamaCare repeal?

[AgeOfEnlightenmentSCP]

Mar 27, 2017 12:06:26 GMT -5 Cookies Galore said:

Mar 27, 2017 10:25:52 GMT -5 weltschmerz said:

Ah, so this is how it's going to be. Every time Trump fucks up, Paul will say it's a brilliant move, and done on purpose.

I broke my foot last May on purpose. I deliberately fell down the stairs and hurt myself. It was a brilliant move, dontcha know? It was all part of a Master Plan so I could get to sit at a concert.


Who's buying it?

I got hip surgery so people would give up their seats on the el. Worked like a charm!

And so you could cut in line at Disney World.

[AgeOfEnlightenmentSCP]

Mar 27, 2017 9:36:37 GMT -5 billisonboard said:

Mar 27, 2017 9:21:59 GMT -5 AgeOfEnlightenmentSCP said:

... tee'ing up a midterm election cycle that benefits him... ...

And sense it is all about him ....

That's the ONE thing about Trump I'll never deny.  I think he's a patriot. I think he means to do well by the country (his ego forbids him not to). But beyond that Trump's religion, ideology, and gravitational center is Trump- or the "Trump brand". This is true.

[weltschmerz]

Mar 27, 2017 14:41:10 GMT -5 AgeOfEnlightenmentSCP said:

Mar 27, 2017 9:36:37 GMT -5 billisonboard said:

And sense it is all about him ....

That's the ONE thing about Trump I'll never deny.  I think he's a patriot. I think he means to do well by the country (his ego forbids him not to). But beyond that Trump's religion, ideology, and gravitational center is Trump- or the "Trump brand". This is true.

Is that why Trump and his whole family have their crap made overseas? Because they're patriots?

[mmhmm]

Mar 27, 2017 14:30:23 GMT -5 AgeOfEnlightenmentSCP said:

Mar 27, 2017 14:18:38 GMT -5 mmhmm said:

Maybe a better title would have been "I'm going to explain ...". Asking if one shall do and giving the audience no chance to respond is usually non-productive. 


*Kiddin' ya, AgeOfEnlightenmentSCP .

I'm pretty sure "No Funnin'" is in the CoC. 

Noooo! We can "fun"! In fact, "funnin'" is preferable to "fightin'"! 

[billisonboard]

Mar 27, 2017 14:41:10 GMT -5 AgeOfEnlightenmentSCP said:

Mar 27, 2017 9:36:37 GMT -5 billisonboard said:

And sense it is all about him ....

That's the ONE thing about Trump I'll never deny.  I think he's a patriot. I think he means to do well by the country (his ego forbids him not to). But beyond that Trump's religion, ideology, and gravitational center is Trump- or the "Trump brand". This is true.

I don't doubt that he "means" to do well. The question in my mind is if he is capable of doing well.

[tallguy]

Mar 27, 2017 14:56:41 GMT -5 billisonboard said:

Mar 27, 2017 14:41:10 GMT -5 AgeOfEnlightenmentSCP said:

That's the ONE thing about Trump I'll never deny.  I think he's a patriot. I think he means to do well by the country (his ego forbids him not to). But beyond that Trump's religion, ideology, and gravitational center is Trump- or the "Trump brand". This is true.

I don't doubt that he "means" to do well. The question in my mind is if he is capable of doing well.

The only real question is exactly who he means to do well for.  His entire history suggests that the only person he really intends to benefit is himself (and secondarily his kids.)

[mmhmm]

There's a big difference between doing good and doing well. He's already done well. Now, what he has to do is switch rails, look outside himself and his own, and do good.

[swamp]

Mar 27, 2017 14:33:32 GMT -5 AgeOfEnlightenmentSCP said:

Mar 27, 2017 12:14:44 GMT -5 Angel! said:

I'm not sure I'm buying that this is the smart move. Letting something fail on purpose that helps lots of people isn't a good move politically. Especially when steps could be taken now to improve Obamacare.

Let's say it goes the way Trump is hoping - premiums skyrocket, insurers pull out of counties across the country, do you think everyone forgets that Trump said he wants to let it crash & burn? And then what happens? They scrap the whole thing & everyone loses all the good parts along with the bad parts? How will the public react? They will scream to give back their subsidies and pre-existing conditions clause. It will bite Trump big time if it crashes and burns and he laughs because people will be hurting.

The worse things get, the more likely we are going to be set up to go to universal care.

I don't buy this was a big plan by Trump. The guy doesn't have that much strategy. He flies by the seat of his pants and tweets whatever BS enters his head.

If that's what you think, you either have not been paying attention; or you've paid selective attention to opinions about Trump that have little to do with actual events. The one over-arching opinion that should clue you in to the fact that Trump had a plan all along is the opinion that we're not supposed to be here right now. Trump wasn't supposed to run, he wasn't supposed to get the nomination, and he wasn't supposed to win the election. So, say what you will about policy. Disagree with Trump all you want. But for your side's sake especially- do not underestimate Trump.

Which is why he doesn't have any plans.  He really didn't expect to win.

He isn't a policy guy. 

[tallguy]

Mar 27, 2017 15:26:06 GMT -5 swamp said:

Mar 27, 2017 14:33:32 GMT -5 AgeOfEnlightenmentSCP said:

If that's what you think, you either have not been paying attention; or you've paid selective attention to opinions about Trump that have little to do with actual events. The one over-arching opinion that should clue you in to the fact that Trump had a plan all along is the opinion that we're not supposed to be here right now. Trump wasn't supposed to run, he wasn't supposed to get the nomination, and he wasn't supposed to win the election. So, say what you will about policy. Disagree with Trump all you want. But for your side's sake especially- do not underestimate Trump.

Which is why he doesn't have any plans.  He really didn't expect to win.

He isn't a policy guy. 

He wouldn't have any real plans even if he DID expect to win.  

[swamp]

It is possible he could have had plans. I didn't say they were good plans.

Trump just figured out healthcare is complicated and you can't just say "Poof! I decree that all healthcare should be paid for." Most people with half a brain knew it was complicated.

[tallguy]

I DID qualify it with "real."   

[Angel!]

Mar 27, 2017 14:33:32 GMT -5 AgeOfEnlightenmentSCP said:

Mar 27, 2017 12:14:44 GMT -5 Angel! said:

I'm not sure I'm buying that this is the smart move. Letting something fail on purpose that helps lots of people isn't a good move politically. Especially when steps could be taken now to improve Obamacare.

Let's say it goes the way Trump is hoping - premiums skyrocket, insurers pull out of counties across the country, do you think everyone forgets that Trump said he wants to let it crash & burn? And then what happens? They scrap the whole thing & everyone loses all the good parts along with the bad parts? How will the public react? They will scream to give back their subsidies and pre-existing conditions clause. It will bite Trump big time if it crashes and burns and he laughs because people will be hurting.

The worse things get, the more likely we are going to be set up to go to universal care.

I don't buy this was a big plan by Trump. The guy doesn't have that much strategy. He flies by the seat of his pants and tweets whatever BS enters his head.

If that's what you think, you either have not been paying attention; or you've paid selective attention to opinions about Trump that have little to do with actual events. The one over-arching opinion that should clue you in to the fact that Trump had a plan all along is the opinion that we're not supposed to be here right now. Trump wasn't supposed to run, he wasn't supposed to get the nomination, and he wasn't supposed to win the election. So, say what you will about policy. Disagree with Trump all you want. But for your side's sake especially- do not underestimate Trump.

Is Trump's 50%+ disapproval rating part of his plan?

In reality I don't have a side. I was honestly hoping republicans could come up with something better. After 7 years of promises you would hope they had a plan. They didn't. There were some improvements with the new bill, but a lot of bad stuff too. I was honestly surprised how spectacularly they failed. 7 years and they can't even come up with something that could pass by simple majority when they have the majority by over 20 seats. Even with trump throwing his weight behind it they failed in spectacular fashion. It wasn't even repeal and replace as had been promised for so long. At best it was repeal a few parts and modify the rest.

If republicans could come up with something better, I would be all for it. I've yet to see a better proposal. Probably because healthcare is complicated. Who knew?

[AgeOfEnlightenmentSCP]

Mar 27, 2017 16:11:01 GMT -5 Angel! said:

Mar 27, 2017 14:33:32 GMT -5 AgeOfEnlightenmentSCP said:

If that's what you think, you either have not been paying attention; or you've paid selective attention to opinions about Trump that have little to do with actual events. The one over-arching opinion that should clue you in to the fact that Trump had a plan all along is the opinion that we're not supposed to be here right now. Trump wasn't supposed to run, he wasn't supposed to get the nomination, and he wasn't supposed to win the election. So, say what you will about policy. Disagree with Trump all you want. But for your side's sake especially- do not underestimate Trump.

Is Trump's 50%+ disapproval rating part of his plan?

In reality I don't have a side. I was honestly hoping republicans could come up with something better. After 7 years of promises you would hope they had a plan. They didn't. There were some improvements with the new bill, but a lot of bad stuff too. I was honestly surprised how spectacularly they failed. 7 years and they can't even come up with something that could pass by simple majority when they have the majority by over 20 seats. Even with trump throwing his weight behind it they failed in spectacular fashion. It wasn't even repeal and replace as had been promised for so long. At best it was repeal a few parts and modify the rest.

If republicans could come up with something better, I would be all for it. I've yet to see a better proposal. Probably because healthcare is complicated. Who knew?

Every single poll was wrong re: the election, but this one's right? C'mon. 

I realize polls are comforting when you don't like actual outcomes, but it's not a healthy place to live.  I guess I've been on the Republican side long enough now that nothing surprises me. What would have been shock is if they actually did something they promised they would do. Of course they weren't going to repeal ObamaCare. Of course they never had any intention of doing it. 

And ANYTHING- even this piece of garbage would have been better than ObamaCare. 

I'll be honest- I think the Freedom Caucus is a foil because if they aren't then why didn't they call the GOP leadership's bluff? Ryan & company deliberately put forward a bill they knew the conservatives could not get behind-- and I think they did it on purpose because as I've already acknowledged- they never had any intention of repealing ObamaCare. I think conservatives should have called their bluff and voted for this piece of shit.

Then the leadership would have had NO CHOICE but to fix it because they would have owned it at that point.

[AgeOfEnlightenmentSCP]

Mar 27, 2017 15:36:02 GMT -5 swamp said:

It is possible he could have had plans. I didn't say they were good plans.

Trump just figured out healthcare is complicated and you can't just say "Poof! I decree that all healthcare should be paid for." Most people with half a brain knew it was complicated.

Complexity is the fig leaf of the political establishment. People know fixing the big government mess is actually simple, and that's why Trump got elected. Unfortunately, Trump cannot simply do whatever he wants and so we got the GOP leadership's failed faux attempt to "repeal" ObamaCare by keeping all of its worst provisions, including funding for illegal aliens-- which of course we were promised was not in the original bill.

The good news, politically, is that ObamaCare is collapsing and Democrats still own it lock stock and barrel.  

[toshmanta]

Paul please stop before I gnaw my foot off.

[mmhmm]

Mar 27, 2017 17:02:25 GMT -5 toshmanta said:

Paul please stop before I gnaw my foot off.

If it's that bad, tosh, there's always the option to block the poster. It's a lot less messy/painful than gnawing off body parts. 

[Angel!]

Mar 27, 2017 16:42:49 GMT -5 AgeOfEnlightenmentSCP said:

Mar 27, 2017 16:11:01 GMT -5 Angel! said:

Is Trump's 50%+ disapproval rating part of his plan?

In reality I don't have a side. I was honestly hoping republicans could come up with something better. After 7 years of promises you would hope they had a plan. They didn't. There were some improvements with the new bill, but a lot of bad stuff too. I was honestly surprised how spectacularly they failed. 7 years and they can't even come up with something that could pass by simple majority when they have the majority by over 20 seats. Even with trump throwing his weight behind it they failed in spectacular fashion. It wasn't even repeal and replace as had been promised for so long. At best it was repeal a few parts and modify the rest.

If republicans could come up with something better, I would be all for it. I've yet to see a better proposal. Probably because healthcare is complicated. Who knew?

Every single poll was wrong re: the election, but this one's right? C'mon. 

I realize polls are comforting when you don't like actual outcomes, but it's not a healthy place to live.  I guess I've been on the Republican side long enough now that nothing surprises me. What would have been shock is if they actually did something they promised they would do. Of course they weren't going to repeal ObamaCare. Of course they never had any intention of doing it. 

And ANYTHING- even this piece of garbage would have been better than ObamaCare. 

I'll be honest- I think the Freedom Caucus is a foil because if they aren't then why didn't they call the GOP leadership's bluff? Ryan & company deliberately put forward a bill they knew the conservatives could not get behind-- and I think they did it on purpose because as I've already acknowledged- they never had any intention of repealing ObamaCare. I think conservatives should have called their bluff and voted for this piece of shit.

Then the leadership would have had NO CHOICE but to fix it because they would have owned it at that point.

The polls weren't all that bad. The national polls were basically dead on. Showed him losing and he did lose the popular vote. Only a few states were really off and some of that was within or close to the margin of error. Even 538 showed a 30% chance of winning around election day. Those aren't bad odds. Why no one thought this was possible surprises me a bit. Not probable, but 30% odds aren't bad at all.

But let's say there is a big margin of error. He is still really hated for a Pres only being 2 months in.

I've asked before, but never got an answer as far as I can recall. How should they fix healthcare?

You say this was better than obamacare, although 30-60 republicans disagreed depending on who you listen to, just the freedom caucus could not have killed this bill. How is it better and what else would you have done?

And please don't start the BS comparison of car insurance to health insurance. We had that conversation way too often and they aren't comparable. Car insurance doesn't cover you of your engine locks up due to lack of maintenance. Health insurance still covers you if you fail to maintain your body by eating crap and sitting all day.

[countrygirl2]

I think the whole trump and team have been compromised by the Russians to bring down the American

government. I've never seen an administration that everybody in it had ties to the Russian mob, banksters,

or leaders. Where there is so much smoke there has to be some fire. But they will never let them have

an independent commission till it totally blows up and I think it will. They will start grilling someone and

they will flub it.

[kittensaver]

Mar 27, 2017 16:45:50 GMT -5 AgeOfEnlightenmentSCP said:

Mar 27, 2017 15:36:02 GMT -5 swamp said:

Complexity is the fig leaf of the political establishment. People know fixing the big government mess is actually simple, and that's why Trump got elected. Unfortunately, Trump cannot simply do whatever he wants and so we got the GOP leadership's failed faux attempt to "repeal" ObamaCare by keeping all of its worst provisions, including funding for illegal aliens-- which of course we were promised was not in the original bill.

The good news, politically, is that ObamaCare is collapsing and Democrats still own it lock stock and barrel.  

[djAdvocate]

there is another possible explanation.  he is a fucking idiot who has no clue what he is doing.

you familiar with Ockham's razor?

[dondub]

Or the Peter Principle?

[busymom]

Mar 27, 2017 20:26:30 GMT -5 dondub said:

Or the Peter Principle?

   Ah yes, "managers rise to the level of their incompetence".  


   Sometimes the truth hurts.  

[AgeOfEnlightenmentSCP]

Mar 27, 2017 14:43:57 GMT -5 weltschmerz said:

Mar 27, 2017 14:41:10 GMT -5 AgeOfEnlightenmentSCP said:

That's the ONE thing about Trump I'll never deny.  I think he's a patriot. I think he means to do well by the country (his ego forbids him not to). But beyond that Trump's religion, ideology, and gravitational center is Trump- or the "Trump brand". This is true.

Is that why Trump and his whole family have their crap made overseas? Because they're patriots?

www.untruthaboutdonaldtrump.com

[AgeOfEnlightenmentSCP]

Mar 27, 2017 18:02:01 GMT -5 countrygirl2 said:

I think the whole trump and team have been compromised by the Russians to bring down the American

government. I've never seen an administration that everybody in it had ties to the Russian mob, banksters,

or leaders. Where there is so much smoke there has to be some fire. But they will never let them have

an independent commission till it totally blows up and I think it will. They will start grilling someone and

they will flub it.

You need to read more from the alt-right. Like the New York Times:

www.nytimes.com/2015/04/24/us/cash-flowed-to-clinton-foundation-as-russians-pressed-for-control-of-uranium-company.html?_r=0

ijr.com/2015/04/305269-2-hillary-clinton-influence-russian-nuclear-fuel-deal-clinton-foundation-received-millions-dollars/

From PolitiFact: 
In an April 26 interview on Fox News Sunday, host Chris Wallace highlighted a claim from Schweizer’s book.

"You have an interesting point that I want to put up on the screen that seems to demonstrate exactly the point you're making," Wallace said. "Between 2001 and 2012, Bill Clinton made 13 speeches, 13, for which he was paid $500,000 or more. Eleven of those 13 speeches were at least eight years after he left the presidency while his wife was secretary of state."

Schweizer responded, noting that Bill Clinton’s speaking fees "dramatically" went up when Hillary Clinton, now a presidential candidate, took office in 2009.

"When you have one or two examples, it's a coincidence," he said. "When you have this many, to me it's a trend."
www.politifact.com/punditfact/statements/2015/apr/26/peter-schweizer/fact-checking-clinton-cash-author-claim-about-bill/

But the bottom line is that I would suggest you become better informed on just exactly what the Clinton machine was all about:

[weltschmerz]

Mar 27, 2017 18:02:01 GMT -5 countrygirl2 said:

I think the whole trump and team have been compromised by the Russians to bring down the American

government. I've never seen an administration that everybody in it had ties to the Russian mob, banksters,

or leaders. Where there is so much smoke there has to be some fire. But they will never let them have

an independent commission till it totally blows up and I think it will. They will start grilling someone and

they will flub it.

Putin got exactly what he wanted. A rudderless, leaderless American government. He's laughing.
Da!

[countrygirl2]

Paul, if you can't see the difference no point in trying to explain it.

They hated the Clintons, from what I've read the trump has been cultivated

for over 5 years, now looks like the whole family is in it. To much money

diverted to them in sales that made no sense. The Chinese are doing it

now to Krushner, buying some building for way more then its worth.

This stuff is dangerous to our democracy. Wonder how many dead

bodies we will see if they start testifying, hubby says they are doing it

now so they don't have to testify under oath.

And now it sounds like the trump is putting SIL in charge of the whole

government, nothing will be his fault. I would be leery if I were that

man. He and bannon and miller are the shadow government like

cheney and rumsfeld were bushes and look where that got us.

Wow, way off Obamacare for sure.

[AgeOfEnlightenmentSCP]

Mar 27, 2017 14:56:41 GMT -5 billisonboard said:

Mar 27, 2017 14:41:10 GMT -5 AgeOfEnlightenmentSCP said:

That's the ONE thing about Trump I'll never deny.  I think he's a patriot. I think he means to do well by the country (his ego forbids him not to). But beyond that Trump's religion, ideology, and gravitational center is Trump- or the "Trump brand". This is true.

I don't doubt that he "means" to do well. The question in my mind is if he is capable of doing well.

That depends on what you mean by the question. Of course Donald Trump has the capability to do well- very well. The question is can he simultaneously drain the swamp, and accomplish what needs to happen while wading through the swamp? A lot of things are lining up which lead me to believe he's going to be successful. The wheels of justice turn slowly-- keep an eye on Comey and company. I still think they're in deep shit. And when said excrement hits the proverbial fan-- it will be a thunderous shot across the bow to the rest of the political establishment: do the will of the people, or their champion will destroy you.

[AgeOfEnlightenmentSCP]

Mar 27, 2017 21:58:36 GMT -5 weltschmerz said:

Mar 27, 2017 18:02:01 GMT -5 countrygirl2 said:

I think the whole trump and team have been compromised by the Russians to bring down the American

government. I've never seen an administration that everybody in it had ties to the Russian mob, banksters,

or leaders. Where there is so much smoke there has to be some fire. But they will never let them have

an independent commission till it totally blows up and I think it will. They will start grilling someone and

they will flub it.

Putin got exactly what he wanted. A rudderless, leaderless American government. He's laughing.
Da!

OMG! WOULD YOU GET OVER IT ALREADY! SHE LOST!!!

[tallguy]

The denial is strong with this one!    

[Angel!]

Mar 28, 2017 10:42:55 GMT -5 AgeOfEnlightenmentSCP said:

Mar 27, 2017 21:58:36 GMT -5 weltschmerz said:

Putin got exactly what he wanted. A rudderless, leaderless American government. He's laughing.
Da!

OMG! WOULD YOU GET OVER IT ALREADY! SHE LOST!!!

Says the person who just posted several links and video about Clinton.