emma1420
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Post by emma1420 on Nov 27, 2016 19:36:04 GMT -5
The Clinton campaign has said flat out that they don't believe the recount will change the results. They didn't initiate the recount process, the Green Party initiated it. All the Clinton campaign has said is that they will participate in the recount process. And if the shoe was on the other foot, then I'd be supportive of Trump requesting a recount in those states. Asking for a recount is not the same as contesting the results of the election. And the Clinton campaign has made i clear they are not contesting the results. It's only Trump and Kellyanne Conway who seem to be confused about the difference between a recount vs contesting/accepting an election result. And if it's such a big deal to them, then why aren't they busy bitching about McCory in NC who is requesting a recount and trying to push the election to the state legislator?
Now now, let's be honest..... If the sitch were 100% reversed and Trump lost and wanted in on a "recount" .......how would the press and people be reacting?
He would be treated differently because he was the one say he wasn't going to accept the results of the election. If he had said he would accept the results but would participate in the recounts then I suspect the treatment he'd receive by the press would be much better. Because the media has been biased. In an effort to be neutral they quit being truthful. Trump played the media like a fiddle. And he continues to play them like a fiddle. I can only hope that they wake up during Mr. Trump's presidency.
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Opti
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Post by Opti on Nov 27, 2016 19:41:55 GMT -5
...... I don't think the recount will result in any sort of change, but I am just sick that a candidate can win the popular vote by 2 million votes and lose the election. I don't think the will of the less populated states should prevail over those in more urban areas. If this goes on, I don't see how we can continue to be one nation, indivisible...sooner or later, those who are not represented equally are going to choose to exit the Union.
I honestly don't believe we've been one nation, indivisible for ages. The urban areas are getting a taste of the disenchantment the rural areas have had with national politics for ages. It just "hurts" more because the urban areas are used to getting their way. I believe things still would have been very divisive if Clinton had been elected. Thankfully she wasn't. The alternative of Trump as president is less than stellar, but one could hope this could be a wake up call for both sides. You want to be divisive and force your ineffective policies down everyone's throats? This is what you get. I'm wondering how the urban areas have been "getting their way" all these years. Didn't we have 8 years of W and one term of HW?
I'm in a suburban area not urban or rural.
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djAdvocate
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Post by djAdvocate on Nov 27, 2016 20:10:30 GMT -5
Now now, let's be honest..... If the sitch were 100% reversed and Trump lost and wanted in on a "recount" .......how would the press and people be reacting?
He would be treated differently because he was the one say he wasn't going to accept the results of the election. If he had said he would accept the results but would participate in the recounts then I suspect the treatment he'd receive by the press would be much better. Because the media has been biased. In an effort to be neutral they quit being truthful. emma: did you coin that all on your own, because it is brilliant. and spot on. "fair and balanced" means giving equal time to crazy. we're fucked.
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rob base
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Post by rob base on Nov 27, 2016 20:33:50 GMT -5
Now now, let's be honest..... If the sitch were 100% reversed and Trump lost and wanted in on a "recount" .......how would the press and people be reacting?
He would be treated differently because he was the one say he wasn't going to accept the results of the election. If he had said he would accept the results but would participate in the recounts then I suspect the treatment he'd receive by the press would be much better. Because the media has been biased. In an effort to be neutral they quit being truthful. Trump played the media like a fiddle. And he continues to play them like a fiddle. I can only hope that they wake up during Mr. Trump's presidency. on the first part of your statement
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Deleted
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Post by Deleted on Nov 27, 2016 22:09:56 GMT -5
Oh I contributed to recount. $ and 3 in my family were the only 3 needed to petition a recount in my precinct too. Totally worth it. That is doing something. I'll be peacefully protesting. That's doing something. Letters, phone calls, post card bombs, etc. those are things to do that are even more effective with such a thin skinned leader. I'm also planning economic choices. It's a multi layered path of doing... Might not have been the best choice of words...
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Deleted
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Post by Deleted on Nov 27, 2016 22:12:19 GMT -5
i tend to think radially, myself. I personally prefer spherical thinking.
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emma1420
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Post by emma1420 on Nov 28, 2016 8:14:44 GMT -5
He would be treated differently because he was the one say he wasn't going to accept the results of the election. If he had said he would accept the results but would participate in the recounts then I suspect the treatment he'd receive by the press would be much better. Because the media has been biased. In an effort to be neutral they quit being truthful. emma: did you coin that all on your own, because it is brilliant. and spot on. "fair and balanced" means giving equal time to crazy. we're fucked. I'd like to take credit, but it's a paraphrase of Christiane Amanpour. And she's right. This election has been a prime example of false equivalency and a desperate need to provide equal time. Trump had scandal after scandal, many of which were not covered adequately by the media (although there were exceptions, the Washington Post being one of those) because the networks were running scared of not appearing balanced. Being truthful and being a source for the truth is so much more important.
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Waffle
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Post by Waffle on Nov 28, 2016 8:51:16 GMT -5
I'm glad the Green Party is initiating the recounts. There are computer scientists and political scientists who have said that numbers in in the areas of the three subject states where electronic machines were used look suspect. The recount should remove all doubt as to whether or not those machines were in any way compromised. If they were compromised then there is time to make some sort of plan, so that there aren't similar issues in future elections. The recounts are thus defending the democratic process and should be applauded.
On a related note, I'm appalled that it is so darn expensive to get a recount done.
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zibazinski
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Post by zibazinski on Nov 28, 2016 8:57:23 GMT -5
Green Party my ass.
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Phoenix84
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Post by Phoenix84 on Nov 28, 2016 8:57:30 GMT -5
I've come to grips. It's just that my and others instinct isn't to just bitch for 8 years. Its to work and to do, so yeah, you should probably expect that... That's good, you should continue to work for causes you feel are right. That freedom is what makes this country great.
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zibazinski
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Post by zibazinski on Nov 28, 2016 8:57:44 GMT -5
No one believes that
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zibazinski
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Post by zibazinski on Nov 28, 2016 8:58:49 GMT -5
Sorry. My post was about the supposed Green Party initiating the recount.
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Phoenix84
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Post by Phoenix84 on Nov 28, 2016 9:01:15 GMT -5
This might be the first time in their life for many liberals to not automatically get their way. It's going to take them some time to come to grips with a thing the rest of us call "reality"...at least it's entertaining though . I think this is ultimately a good thing for liberals, especially younger liberals who never really knew any administration but the Obama administration. Hopefully it will give them some perspective on the democratic process and have more compassion when the shoe is on the other foot.
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Phoenix84
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Post by Phoenix84 on Nov 28, 2016 9:07:14 GMT -5
I'm actually stopping many of the things I do to help the locals I usually do. They wanted trump, let him help them. I will still continue as I always do to support causes and peoples who are in need, but I'm aligning those recipients more with my values. Make no mistake though, my efforts will be multi fold. And I will take advantage of all my rights in protesting and working against the efforts of the incoming administration. And it won't be 'whining' and I will not be alone. So you only help people who align with your values and worldview? So much for a united America.
Aren't liberals like you the first to say the government has to help people instead of churches because churches turn away people who don't conform to their values?
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dezailoooooo
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Post by dezailoooooo on Nov 28, 2016 9:33:51 GMT -5
I will accept the results of the election. Verifying those results isn't failure to accept them however. I think recounts should be routine. We should have faith in our process and I don't think anyone should fear a recount. As bean said, the issue with trump was different. He seemed to suggesting non acceptance outside of routine and legal means. The Clinton campaign has said flat out that they don't believe the recount will change the results. They didn't initiate the recount process, the Green Party initiated it. All the Clinton campaign has said is that they will participate in the recount process. And if the shoe was on the other foot, then I'd be supportive of Trump requesting a recount in those states. Asking for a recount is not the same as contesting the results of the election. And the Clinton campaign has made i clear they are not contesting the results. It's only Trump and Kellyanne Conway who seem to be confused about the difference between a recount vs contesting/accepting an election result. And if it's such a big deal to them, then why aren't they busy bitching about McCory in NC who is requesting a recount and trying to push the election to the state legislator? We have a President elect who is a wealthy, intelligent but very flawed individual who also is not very honest..His latest saying /tweet,,millions of votes that were illegal,....fraud...it's not true but it seems the Donald, who has won the election..[ unless recounts show differently] is upset, even though he won the election, he has lost the populer vote to Hillery..by a couple million votes...Our future President can't stand negative criticism...and he is going to get plenty in the future...but I think it is to late for him to change his ways...It was fine when he was in the private sector...being a success in his business and obsenely wealthy those around him would kiss his butt, never criticize and stroke him to a fair thee well...either that or pay the price...now ..poor man is seeing another side of life and really can't handle it...as said...flawed individual..
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Deleted
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Post by Deleted on Nov 28, 2016 9:43:58 GMT -5
I'm actually stopping many of the things I do to help the locals I usually do. They wanted trump, let him help them. I will still continue as I always do to support causes and peoples who are in need, but I'm aligning those recipients more with my values. Make no mistake though, my efforts will be multi fold. And I will take advantage of all my rights in protesting and working against the efforts of the incoming administration. And it won't be 'whining' and I will not be alone. So you only help people who align with your values and worldview? So much for a united America.
Aren't liberals like you the first to say the government has to help people instead of churches because churches turn away people who don't conform to their values?
Didn't use to be that way. I've spent the good majority of my resources and time in red PA. But yeah, I'm tired of taking the high road and being told to suck it. It's my money. I'll do with it as I want. Which is, as you say, how you all preach that you think it should be.
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emma1420
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Post by emma1420 on Nov 28, 2016 10:07:40 GMT -5
So you only help people who align with your values and worldview? So much for a united America.
Aren't liberals like you the first to say the government has to help people instead of churches because churches turn away people who don't conform to their values?
Didn't use to be that way. I've spent the good majority of my resources and time in red PA. But yeah, I'm tired of taking the high road and being told to suck it. It's my money. I'll do with it as I want. Which is, as you say, how you all preach that you think it should be. That's pretty much where I am. Although I stopped a few years ago. There are groups that offer food pantry's and childcare, which I think are great, but I cannot support organizations of that nature when the culture within the organization is to support policies that lead to a greater need of those services. To me it doesn't make any sense. Especially, when I can support many other organizations that I feel support policies that would lead to less people needing those sorts of services.
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dezailoooooo
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Post by dezailoooooo on Nov 28, 2016 10:15:25 GMT -5
Didn't use to be that way. I've spent the good majority of my resources and time in red PA. But yeah, I'm tired of taking the high road and being told to suck it. It's my money. I'll do with it as I want. Which is, as you say, how you all preach that you think it should be. That's pretty much where I am. Although I stopped a few years ago. There are groups that offer food pantry's and childcare, which I think are great, but I cannot support organizations of that nature when the culture within the organization is to support policies that lead to a greater need of those services. To me it doesn't make any sense. Especially, when I can support many other organizations that I feel support policies that would lead to less people needing those sorts of services. So as u travel down a street and come across some one on the ground in desperate need of help...but they are wearing a t ea shirt espousing a cause in support for a group that u know "when the culture within the organization is to support policies that lead to a greater need of those services."...instead of stopping and giving aid or even making a call for aid , u just turn your head and continue on your journey
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Deleted
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Post by Deleted on Nov 28, 2016 10:20:29 GMT -5
That's pretty much where I am. Although I stopped a few years ago. There are groups that offer food pantry's and childcare, which I think are great, but I cannot support organizations of that nature when the culture within the organization is to support policies that lead to a greater need of those services. To me it doesn't make any sense. Especially, when I can support many other organizations that I feel support policies that would lead to less people needing those sorts of services. So as u travel down a street and come across some one on the ground in desperate need of help...but they are wearing a t ea shirt espousing a cause in support for a group that u know "when the culture within the organization is to support policies that lead to a greater need of those services."...instead of stopping and giving aid or even making a call for aid , u just turn your head and continue on your journey A child, no. An adult, yeah, I'm at that point. I'll direct them to address the government they voted for to provide assistance, or the faith based services which did the same.
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Phoenix84
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Post by Phoenix84 on Nov 28, 2016 10:37:33 GMT -5
I think this recount was ill conceived and is damaging. All it does is extend an already painful election, gives false hope to some uninformed Clinton supporters, and has essentially zero chance of making a difference, all so we can "just make sure democracy works."
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Deleted
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Post by Deleted on Nov 28, 2016 10:44:21 GMT -5
Yes, a horrible cause to stand for that, making sure democracy works...
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djAdvocate
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Post by djAdvocate on Nov 28, 2016 10:54:36 GMT -5
emma: did you coin that all on your own, because it is brilliant. and spot on. "fair and balanced" means giving equal time to crazy. we're fucked. I'd like to take credit, but it's a paraphrase of Christiane Amanpour. And she's right. This election has been a prime example of false equivalency and a desperate need to provide equal time. Trump had scandal after scandal, many of which were not covered adequately by the media (although there were exceptions, the Washington Post being one of those) because the networks were running scared of not appearing balanced. Being truthful and being a source for the truth is so much more important. this is so ironic, in that the precise argument was made during the 80's for overturning the fairness doctrine. and now, the right wing loons are demanding the fairness doctrine for their lunacy. and they are getting it. and it is ruining our politics, imo. i agree completely with this assessment by the way. just like in 2002, the press failed us in 2016.
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Miss Tequila
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Post by Miss Tequila on Nov 28, 2016 10:55:38 GMT -5
So you only help people who align with your values and worldview? So much for a united America.
Aren't liberals like you the first to say the government has to help people instead of churches because churches turn away people who don't conform to their values?
Didn't use to be that way. I've spent the good majority of my resources and time in red PA. But yeah, I'm tired of taking the high road and being told to suck it. It's my money. I'll do with it as I want. Which is, as you say, how you all preach that you think it should be. It's funny because I'm also in PA but I would never consider PA to be a red state. It has been 28 years since PA went for a Republican president. Two of the last three governors have been Democrats.
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djAdvocate
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Post by djAdvocate on Nov 28, 2016 10:57:44 GMT -5
I think this recount was ill conceived and is damaging. All it does is extend an already painful election, gives false hope to some uninformed Clinton supporters, and has essentially zero chance of making a difference, all so we can "just make sure democracy works." i would have agreed with you prior to 2000. but after that election, and the resulting shitty president, i no longer agree that taking a bit of time to weigh the results is not worth it. it is absolutely worth it. it is worth $1T. it is worth 4000 US servicemen. it is worth 60% in the stock market. it is worth 10 million jobs. if you don't think it is worth it, you are not thinking of what awaits you.
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Miss Tequila
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Post by Miss Tequila on Nov 28, 2016 10:58:01 GMT -5
This might be the first time in their life for many liberals to not automatically get their way. It's going to take them some time to come to grips with a thing the rest of us call "reality"...at least it's entertaining though . I think this is ultimately a good thing for liberals, especially younger liberals who never really knew any administration but the Obama administration. Hopefully it will give them some perspective on the democratic process and have more compassion when the shoe is on the other foot.I'm not seeing ANY of that....look at this board. Lots of bitter and angry people. I had to suck it up for 8 years (and got called racist because CLEARLY the only reason I didn't like Obama's policies was that I hated black people ) . I don't remember having meltdowns like people are having over Trump. I find it quite entertaining.
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djAdvocate
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Post by djAdvocate on Nov 28, 2016 10:58:40 GMT -5
Didn't use to be that way. I've spent the good majority of my resources and time in red PA. But yeah, I'm tired of taking the high road and being told to suck it. It's my money. I'll do with it as I want. Which is, as you say, how you all preach that you think it should be. It's funny because I'm also in PA but I would never consider PA to be a red state. It has been 28 years since PA went for a Republican president. Two of the last three governors have been Democrats.
............and one has been a complete and utter loon.
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Deleted
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Post by Deleted on Nov 28, 2016 10:59:36 GMT -5
I live in the red part of PA and have always supported the area and people I live among. Surely you understand that the center of PA is historically red red? There are very few democrats where I live, although there are some larger pockets near the new house.
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dezailoooooo
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Post by dezailoooooo on Nov 28, 2016 11:18:39 GMT -5
So as u travel down a street and come across some one on the ground in desperate need of help...but they are wearing a t ea shirt espousing a cause in support for a group that u know "when the culture within the organization is to support policies that lead to a greater need of those services."...instead of stopping and giving aid or even making a call for aid , u just turn your head and continue on your journey A child, no. An adult, yeah, I'm at that point. I'll direct them to address the government they voted for to provide assistance, or the faith based services which did the same. sweet........
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Gardening Grandma
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Post by Gardening Grandma on Nov 28, 2016 11:28:18 GMT -5
I think this recount was ill conceived and is damaging. All it does is extend an already painful election, gives false hope to some uninformed Clinton supporters, and has essentially zero chance of making a difference, all so we can "just make sure democracy works." Recounts are not uncommon. In my state close elections automatically trigger recounts. They just aren't that big of a deal. I'd still like to know why this recount (which nobody expects to change the outcome) has the righties all upset. What's wrong with verifying accuracy? What are you afraid of? An even higher popular count for Clinton?
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Waffle
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Post by Waffle on Nov 28, 2016 11:50:53 GMT -5
I'm glad the Green Party is initiating the recounts. There are computer scientists and political scientists who have said that numbers in in the areas of the three subject states where electronic machines were used look suspect. The recount should remove all doubt as to whether or not those machines were in any way compromised. If they were compromised then there is time to make some sort of plan, so that there aren't similar issues in future elections. The recounts are thus defending the democratic process and should be applauded.
On a related note, I'm appalled that it is so darn expensive to get a recount done. Why aren't these machines calibrated, tested, and certified before the election? Essentially they are really big calculators, how hard could it be? I believe these particular machines are more like computers than calculators and thus vulnerable to hacking. Emphasis in the quote below is mine. The quote comes from a CNN article.
"Halderman [one of the computer scientists who pressed for recounts] is well-known in election security circles and gained some fame after he and his students at the University of Michigan successfully hacked Washington's Board of Elections in 2010 during a trial run of its online voting system.
People who voted using the system were greeted with the University of Michigan's fight song -- placed there by Halderman's students. The city council quickly scrapped plans for the system after that."
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