Genealogy, are you interested in how you came to exist?

[thyme4change]

We used Ancestry but there is also 23 and me.

I read one thing where some guy did both and got conflicting results. That is not a vote of confidence in the process.

[sesfw]

I know about Ancestry but I've never heard of '23 and me' ........ Can you give more information?

What about other places for dna?

[weltschmerz]

We keep running into a brick wall after these guys.
Record-keeping was sparse.

[NoNamePerson]

Nov 5, 2016 12:27:17 GMT -5 sesfw said:

I know about Ancestry but I've never heard of '23 and me' ........ Can you give more information?

What about other places for dna?

 Or any other services.

[haapai]

Nov 5, 2016 10:36:40 GMT -5 thyme4change said:

Nov 5, 2016 10:27:17 GMT -5 Gardening Grandma said:

The DNA results can get interesting. I've discovered a fifth cousin who is African American. We traced our common ancestor to a geezer who owned slaves. Yep.

It was also through DNA that my half sisters discovered me. I've known about them all my life but was waiting to contact them after our father died. They found me first.  

If you are thinking of doing DNA, be sure you are prepared for surprises....

A surprise would be great. I have found the whole 'find your ancestors' thing super boring. I come from solid, law abiding, hard working, Christians. Boo. Not a scandal in the bunch.

Ugh, GG got pretty lucky in terms of surprises.  If you're going to put your DNA out there and ask the universe to return close matches, you are much more likely to turn up recent surprises and mysteries.  The algorithm runs on the strength of genetic similarity and presents the results on the basis of that strength and degrades pretty quickly over generations.  The people that would prefer that you don't know about this stuff may still be alive and what you find might not be your mother's half-siblings that she wasn't allowed to talk about but something far more recent and touchy.  If other folks in your family are on the DNA match kick, the explanations that present themselves can be quite disturbing. 

My mom went to stay with an aunt and uncle several states away when she was 15-17 years old.  An adopted cousin showed up in host family at pretty much the same time.  I'm mentally prepared for a half-sibling a decade older than myself.  What I am not prepared for is incest.  I can handle 2nd-cousin M being my half-sib but I'm not prepared for the news that said half-sibling's other parent was my grandfather or my uncle. 

[thyme4change]

Nov 5, 2016 16:30:56 GMT -5 NoNamePerson said:

Nov 5, 2016 12:27:17 GMT -5 sesfw said:

I know about Ancestry but I've never heard of '23 and me' ........ Can you give more information?

What about other places for dna?

 Or any other services.

I did this a couple of years ago, and did a little research. Ancestry had a bigger database so I chose that. 23 and me was giving out medical information, but they had to shut that down. At one time they were offering the raw data and you could analyze the medical implications on your own.

[swamp]

I am interested, but like thyme's husband I'd probabaky just find out I'm white.  Maybe a little native tossed in since I'm French Canadian and most of them interbred with the locals. 

[NoNamePerson]

 Think I'll give it a shot. I have always wondered if the person listed on my birth certificate is my bio father. Since his family are Lebonese that should show up I would think. Guess my mother was a "sooner" .  Might be worth the bucks just to see.

[Deleted]

When I was a teenager my Mom and Aunt traced their mother's history as far as they could. My grandmother's mother, there were no records. They just knew where she grew up and her parent's names. My grandmother's father, they were able to piece together info on his parents, between what my Grandmother could remember and church records. So, my grandmother's grandparents had 12 children, and my Mom and Aunt contacted as many of the living descendants as they could find and we had a huge family reunion. People came from all over the country to attend. We still have it every other year.

They did all that before the internet. My great grandmother was born in either 1904 or 1906, and back then in rural Mississippi, churches were pretty much the only places that kept records of births and deaths. Her family's church was burned down, which is why they couldn't find any of her history and weren't even sure which year she was born. My great grandfather's parents owned land and they gifted some of their land for a church to be built (and nobody burned the church down). So it was easier to find more information on that side.

All that to say I would be interested in knowing more, but I don't think its possible. I would love to know who my grandmother's people were and where they lived before they were brought here and ended up in Mississippi. We have one picture each of her grandparents, she looks straight African, he does not. One of his parents was Native American, I think it was his father, and we don't know what tribe. I wish I knew more about my family's Native American history too.

My father's side. I know nothing, not even his parent's names. His grandmother raised him, don't know her name either. I could find out, but I'm not really interested in learning more about his family.

[Tennesseer]

@pinkcshmere-have you thought about joining Ancestry.com say for a month and look at the U.S. census records for your family. The census records go back to at least the1880s if I remember correctly.

Funny thing I found out about my paternal grandfather born in 1884-on the 1890 and 1900 census records, he was listed as Arthur Joseph 'Tennesseer'. On the1910 census, he was listed as Joesph Arthur 'Tennesseer'. Apparently he did not like Arthur as a first name so switched the names. We always knew him as Joseph Arthur too. I bet my dad never knew that too.

[Gardening Grandma]

Nov 5, 2016 12:27:17 GMT -5 sesfw said:

I know about Ancestry but I've never heard of '23 and me' ........ Can you give more information?

What about other places for dna?

Also FTDNA (Family Tree DNA).  I've tested with all three (for different reasons)

If your goal is the largest exposure possible for the minimum cost, I suggest
1) Test with Ancestry
2) Upload the raw results to ftdna (the cost is about $40)
3) Upload the raw results to Gedmatch (free)


If you test with ftdna, Ancestry does not give you the option of uploading the results to Ancestry)

With Gedmatch, you can upload the results from any of the above companies

[Gardening Grandma]

Nov 6, 2016 9:52:47 GMT -5 Tennesseer said:

@pinkcshmere -have you thought about joining Ancestry.com say for a month and look at the U.S. census records for your family. The census records go back to at least the1880s if I remember correctly.

Funny thing I found out about my paternal grandfather born in 1884-on the 1890 and 1900 census records, he was listed as Arthur Joseph 'Tennesseer'. On the1910 census, he was listed as Joesph Arthur 'Tennesseer'. Apparently he did not like Arthur as a first name so switched the names. We always knew him as Joseph Arthur too. I bet my dad never knew that too.

Actually the census records go back to 1790.  From 1790 to 1840 only the head of household was enumerated by name (with indicators to family members by age and gender). In 1850, they began listing all the household members by name, age and state of birth.  In 1880 they began stating the relationships explictly.

If you don't want to pay for an Ancestry subscription, your local library (or local genealogy society) probably has a subscription.

[thyme4change]

I did do the history of my house and other houses in my neighborhood. My favorite was one of the deeds. They have to designate your marital status, and apparantly an unmarried woman bought a house. She was listed as "a spinster".

I also found the original rules of our neighborhood, complete with the details of what type of buildings can be built, how close fences can be to the property line, prohibition of chickens and livestock and the clause that only white and Caucasians can live here, specifically outlawing people with 'perceptible strains of Asiatic, Negro or Indian blood.'

People who say the world used to be better are either wrong or jerks.

[Tennesseer]

Nov 6, 2016 11:20:26 GMT -5 thyme4change said:

I did do the history of my house and other houses in my neighborhood. My favorite was one of the deeds. They have to designate your marital status, and apparantly an unmarried woman bought a house. She was listed as "a spinster".

I also found the original rules of our neighborhood, complete with the details of what type of buildings can be built, how close fences can be to the property line, prohibition of chickens and livestock and the clause that only white and Caucasians can live here, specifically outlawing people with 'perceptible strains of Asiatic, Negro or Indian blood.'

People who say the world used to be better are either wrong or jerks.

Still happens today.

Nazi Past of Long Island Hamlet Persists in a Rule for Home Buyers
OCT. 19, 2015

YAPHANK, N.Y. — Here in this rural Long Island community, a Nazi summer camp once held parades before American flags and banners bearing swastikas. Nearby streets were named after Adolf Hitler, Joseph Goebbels and other leaders of Nazi-era Germany.

While the parades are gone and the streets have been renamed, one thing has not changed: The original owners of this tract of land kept a clause in its bylaws requiring the homeowners to be primarily “of German extraction.” That has kept this community of 45 families almost entirely white.

It has also left one family frustrated and headed to court to challenge the bylaws. Philip Kneer and Patricia Flynn-Kneer, a couple who lived in a two bedroom, ranch-style home along the main road, are suing the community organization that owns the land under their house, the German American Settlement League, alleging that the league’s housing practices are discriminatory and violate the Fair Housing Act. The complaint was filed on Monday in Federal District Court in Central Islip.

The couple, both of German descent, originally agreed in 1999 to enter the community under its rules. But in subsequent years, a mix of both moral and practical concerns came to trouble them.

The family wanted to sell their home. But the league’s covenants kept residents from advertising their homes on the open market. Even a for-sale sign was banned. Only members of the league, along with their friends, are told. The consequence: A white neighborhood that stays that way, the Kneers said.

Complete article here.
Nazi Past of Long Island Hamlet Persists in a Rule for Home Buyers

[thyme4change]

Wow, how would that possibly hold up? The fair housing act is pretty established. I hope that moves swiftly through to the proper resolution.

[Tennesseer]

Nov 6, 2016 11:40:28 GMT -5 thyme4change said:

Wow, how would that possibly hold up? The fair housing act is pretty established. I hope that moves swiftly through to the proper resolution.

Apparently, the association owns the land under the homes and not the homeowner. I would imagine if the homeowner wants to sell the house, they would have to physically move the building out of the neighborhood to some where else.

I checked to see if there were any updates on this case but found nothing at this time.

[thyme4change]

Owning the land may make it easier for the homeowner to be controlled, but it is still pretty clearly illegal.

[countrygirl]

I have ours back aways, but in my paternal great great grandfather, we can't make a

connection out east beyond his family, they were irish and records got burned. One man

has researched and researched and is sure but can't prove it.

My maternal grandmothers families are French Canadian but dark as grandma was and with black

hair and one streak of white till her 90's and death I would bet there is Indian in there. Maybe

black but straight hair so I'm betting indian, she married dutch so the kids and grand kids are

all very white.

I have been intending to do the 23 and me but hate to spend the money, will eventually

break down and do it.

I know my gggrandfather is buried in a certain cemetery and need to go search it out,

no headstone. My aunt was a kid when she went to the funeral and said she just couldn't

remember where he was buried.

We have a scandal that gggrandfather and his wife were both married and ran off together

and left their spouses and kids. The one man researching wouldn't believe me till I started

naming names of people my aunt was related to and had visited, we got added to the family

tree on dads side. Hillarious what you find.

Husbands family is german on both sides and with our grandson we have introduced ukranian

and other nationalities not sure what?  His moms father has an eskimo look and is from Siberia

so I'm not sure.  That little boy is even whiter and has blonde hair, our son had red as did our

daughter, from the irish I guess.

about him.

[Gardening Grandma]

Being YMers - Those of you thinking about doing the dna - watch for sales.  Especially around Christmas.  

[Gardening Grandma]

Nov 5, 2016 19:08:20 GMT -5 @pinkcshmere said:

When I was a teenager my Mom and Aunt traced their mother's history as far as they could. My grandmother's mother, there were no records. They just knew where she grew up and her parent's names. My grandmother's father, they were able to piece together info on his parents, between what my Grandmother could remember and church records. So, my grandmother's grandparents had 12 children, and my Mom and Aunt contacted as many of the living descendants as they could find and we had a huge family reunion. People came from all over the country to attend. We still have it every other year.

They did all that before the internet. My great grandmother was born in either 1904 or 1906, and back then in rural Mississippi, churches were pretty much the only places that kept records of births and deaths. Her family's church was burned down, which is why they couldn't find any of her history and weren't even sure which year she was born. My great grandfather's parents owned land and they gifted some of their land for a church to be built (and nobody burned the church down). So it was easier to find more information on that side.

pink - if you want to PM me, I will look for her in the 1910 census and see what I can find.  Need her name and, if you know the county she lived in that would help.

[chiver78]

Nov 6, 2016 11:44:23 GMT -5 Tennesseer said:

Nov 6, 2016 11:40:28 GMT -5 thyme4change said:

Wow, how would that possibly hold up? The fair housing act is pretty established. I hope that moves swiftly through to the proper resolution.

Apparently, the association owns the land under the homes and not the homeowner. I would imagine if the homeowner wants to sell the house, they would have to physically move the building out of the neighborhood to some where else.

I checked to see if there were any updates on this case but found nothing at this time.

don't co-ops operate similarly? I don't mean in racist ways, but just generally exclusionary and kind of a popular vote sort of thing to get in?

[Tennesseer]

Nov 6, 2016 17:45:56 GMT -5 chiver78 said:

Nov 6, 2016 11:44:23 GMT -5 Tennesseer said:

Apparently, the association owns the land under the homes and not the homeowner. I would imagine if the homeowner wants to sell the house, they would have to physically move the building out of the neighborhood to some where else.

I checked to see if there were any updates on this case but found nothing at this time.

don't co-ops operate similarly? I don't mean in racist ways, but just generally exclusionary and kind of a popular vote sort of thing to get in?

Interesting question. Had to do a little Googling to read up on co-ops. A couple of articles to read. Can be 'easy' to skirt federal and state housing laws and discrimination. Second link pertains only to NYC.

Top Dozen Reasons for Co-op Board Rejections

Proposal Seek To Curb Bias By Co-Op Boards

[Deleted]

For the record, Gardening Grandma is awesome!  My Mom is going to think I'm a genius tomorrow when I talk to her. LOL!

[Gardening Grandma]

<blush> 

[wyouser]

Mothers side arrived in Mass in 1629. They go back to around 1450 in England. The family may have migrated to England from Germany around then. (Name disappeared in Germany around then and appeared in England about then.) Who knows. Fathers side came out of the Neckar valley region in Germany in 1892. Records there go back to 1618. The French burned down the city hall in that year. Have visited family who still live in Germany in 1971, 2003 and 2010. Found at least one relative who fought in the Revolution (was part of the ill-fated invasion of Canada) I have family who fought for the North in the civil War and some whose sympathies were definitely with the South as well. I am aware of none who actually served in the Confederate forces. (They were all living in Kentucky then) Anyway, I have a number of Great Uncles who were named after Southern leaders.(with at least one named after a nasty fellow who rode with Quantrill). My Grandmother's father was part of a posse chasing part of the James Gang after the Northfield Minnesota bank raid. The story goes they caught up with Frank James near Dell Rapids SD at a river crossing. James was said to have stopped and turned to them saying "If I were you I think I would just turn around and go home." The guys on the posse looked a each other and then did exactly what Frank James Told them. We have family who fought on both sides in WWI and WWII. One cousin went down with his B-24 over the Mediterranean in 1943. Another was a rear gunner in a Stuka (shot down in 1944) A third spent the war in Russia and probably lived to tell about it only because he was an adjutant and driver for a Luftwaffe officer. Near as I can tell we were all just pretty ordinary folks.