weltschmerz
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Post by weltschmerz on Oct 27, 2016 21:18:52 GMT -5
How do I know this? I live north of New England, and we go hiking and mushroom picking in the deep woods all the time. Unarmed.
The worst that could happen is he'll come across a moose during rutting season.
You just stay out of their way.
I'm not saying he should or shouldn't get a gun. I'm saying you shouldn't worry unduly.
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weltschmerz
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Post by weltschmerz on Oct 27, 2016 21:23:20 GMT -5
(I don't know what those stupid things are that are floating over my post, blocking words. One of Virgil's brilliant ideas, no doubt.)
The word is "shouldn't".
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Opti
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Post by Opti on Oct 27, 2016 21:25:02 GMT -5
(I don't know what those stupid things are that are floating over my post, blocking words. One of Virgil's brilliant ideas, no doubt.) The word is "shouldn't". Trick or treat game. There's a thread on it.
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weltschmerz
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Post by weltschmerz on Oct 27, 2016 21:32:40 GMT -5
(I don't know what those stupid things are that are floating over my post, blocking words. One of Virgil's brilliant ideas, no doubt.) The word is "shouldn't". Trick or treat game. There's a thread on it. Thanks. I never would have guessed it was candy.
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skubikky
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Post by skubikky on Oct 28, 2016 7:33:25 GMT -5
What is a YDS?
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Sharon
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Post by Sharon on Oct 28, 2016 7:47:50 GMT -5
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Post by Deleted on Oct 28, 2016 9:17:57 GMT -5
First, thank you for asking the questions. To give you my frame of reference I'm also from MN and now live in WI. So very much in the same camp as MPL. I grew up around guns and hunters and learned at a very young age that A. Guns are to be respected and B. Guns are not something to be afraid of, rather tools for a specific purpose. (In my house the family shotgun was stored in my mom's bedroom closet and the shells were in her nightstand drawer- no locks, no safes, just a healthy respect gun ownership and safety. In college all of the dorms had storage lockers for hunting weapons). I really don't even know how many long guns are currently in my house since MrSroo brought in all of his childhood guns from his parents house. Right now they are in the bedroom closet until we get a gun case (before anyone freaks out about this... they are all .22s and we don't currently have any .22 ammo in the house nor do we have children or visiting children...). Yes. I was kind of taken aback by the responses, because around here, guns are just part of the household. Many have them displayed in dens and such. My brothers always had a gun rack in their bedroom when they were kids! (ammo wasn't stored there, because I know people are choking on their breakfast over that) Guns aren't something that hold a fascination with kids around here any more than the family chainsaw.
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milee
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Post by milee on Oct 28, 2016 9:43:59 GMT -5
"Everybody does it" or "this is how I grew up" is true for a lot of things we now know to be a bad idea.
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milee
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Post by milee on Oct 28, 2016 9:56:07 GMT -5
Respectfully Milee... This isn't about little kids, it isn't about how MPL and I or anyone else grew up. It's about GRG asking questions to make herself more comfortable with her adult son owning a firearm. Turning it into anything else isn't helpful to her getting the information she's after. I hear you. It's a hot button issue for me not just because I have kids - that go to other people's houses - but also because IMHO the lack of respect for gun safety is adding fire to the current gun control debate that sometimes threatens to tear the country apart. While there are still kids dying because they (or their friend who didn't grow up understanding and respecting guns) find and accidentally fire guns improperly stored in people's houses, it's worth mentioning how important gun safety is. Not just for people who are parents. GRG's 18 year old son may not think safe gun storage is important because he doesn't have kids, but what about when a friend or relative visits... because that's what people don't think about and when many of the awful accidents happen. And - my opinion only - but if those of us who owned guns were more respectful of the fears of people who don't own or are afraid of guns, a lot of the gun control debate could be made more civil and some solutions reached. But if we keep acting like ignorant fools who think it's no biggie that our guns and ammo are laying around and get defensive when people point out the danger, or fall back on the "that's how I was raised and I lived!" then it widens the gap between gun owners and people who want guns tightly restricted or outlawed. Those of us who own guns and want to continue to own guns aren't doing ourselves any favors by pointing out how common and normal it is for gun owners to not feel the need for gun safety.
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Phoenix84
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Post by Phoenix84 on Oct 28, 2016 9:58:07 GMT -5
I'm not familiar with guns, so may not be the best one to ask.
But I agree with Milee. The biggest reason I haven't bought a gun is because I know it'd just end up locked away gathering dust and I wouldn't keep up with practicing with it, or the maintenance. And it's something you have to keep up with. Even cops and other people very familiar with guns have accidents.
Ultimately, if you're considering safety, it's important to weigh the risk of a potential gun accident with the risk of a animal attack, and there are other options for animal deterrent like bear spray.
If your son really wants a gun though, and wants it as a hobby though, I guess I see no problem with him doing it as long as he takes the safety courses and keeps up practicing.
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steph08
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Post by steph08 on Oct 28, 2016 10:02:04 GMT -5
We have guns, lots of them (probably two dozen). We have a gun cabinet with a lock and key for the shotguns and rifles. We have two smaller safes for the pistols that are in our bedroom. A code has to be entered in order to get the guns out. When my DH goes archery hunting, he takes a pistol with him as well, for protection against any other animals he might encounter. When I was a kid - my dad kept his guns in his bedroom closet, though they all had trigger locks. I didn't know the code until I was about 16 and our neighbor needed a gun to kill a rabid animal in his yard. He called my dad for the code, but then he didn't have his glasses in order to see to enter it.
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Phoenix84
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Post by Phoenix84 on Oct 28, 2016 10:15:05 GMT -5
Big differences between shotgun and rifle. Both are "long" guns but a rifle shoots a single bullet vs. a shotgun which releases more of a spray of smaller projectiles. What does your son want? He is saying he wants to buy a "shotgun", but maybe he isn't clear on what he wants (which is why I am glad he is waiting until he researches the whole idea more). Is a shotgun a BB gun? No, a BB gun is more or less a child's toy. It fires a small metal pellet that will sting but usually not wound.
A shotgun is a long gun that fires shells. Once fired, the shells become a number of pellets that spread out somewhat. Usually shotguns are pump action, but don't necessarily have to be. As I understand it, shotguns are commonly used for home defense, because they fire pellets that don't penetrate well through walls. They are also used for bird hunting because the spread of the pellets makes it easier to hit small, fast moving birds.
A rifle is another type of long gun, but it fires a single bullet. There are different calibers of bullets denoting their size and power. a .22 is a smaller and less powerful caliber, usually used for rabbit or squirrel hunting. Larger calibers, for example, are 9mm, which is what most police pistols are. Larger still are .45. Someone can correct me if I'm wrong, but I think most hunting rifles are .32 or 0.308.
How you determine it's empty depends on the weapon. A common mistake is people will empty the magazine, but there's still a bullet in the chamber of the weapon.
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GRG a/k/a goldenrulegirl
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Post by GRG a/k/a goldenrulegirl on Oct 28, 2016 11:02:45 GMT -5
I don't want to wander down the gun rights/gun control debate. I personally have no opinion either way. I am afraid of guns because I have absolutely no personal experience with them. My parents didn't own any, I don't own any, and as far as I know only because no one has mentioned it or left them out, no one in my current social circle has any.
I do worry about gun safety...because I honestly don't know how to and have no experience how to keep a gun safely. So, I'm asking those of you with experience.
Please, do not interpret my posts as either for or against guns. I'm being taken on this gun ownership ride, not steering the train, and want to know enough to guide my YOUNG adult son.
So, back to shotguns and more stupid questions: why is it desirable to have a shotgun for home protection? What does "shotgun pellets don't pierce walls" mean and why is that important (to protect innocent bystanders in other rooms?)?
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milee
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Post by milee on Oct 28, 2016 11:20:42 GMT -5
Shotguns are often considered good for home defense because the noise they make when you rack them is so distinctive and loud that even someone who knows nothing about guns knows what that noise means - you are armed and ready to fire. Not sure if that's always true, but it's the theory. They're also considered good because you don't have to be very accurate a shot to hit the intruder. With a handgun or rifle, you'd be surprised how easy it is to miss your target with those single bullets, but with a shotgun firing a spray of shot, it's harder to miss. On the other hand, just my opinion but since they're heavier and more awkward to load, I think there's a little more risk because if you do miss, you probably wouldn't have time to reload before something bad happened to you... unlike with a semiautomatic handgun or rifles with magazines that can be reloaded in a blink.
As for it not firing through walls - I don't believe that. That would depend a lot on how close you were, what the wall was made of and what gauge shot is being fired. But I do agree that you're less likely to fire through several walls and hit a neighbor like you can with some of the large caliber rifles.
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milee
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Post by milee on Oct 28, 2016 11:25:03 GMT -5
But as with any other issue - it's complicated. Sometimes you want to be able to fire through a wall. Some of the self-defense theories involve not waiting for an intruder to come in and get you... the idea is that if you know there's an intruder go ahead and fire right through your door or wall to take them out before they become a threat. (And surely you see the big risk in that theory... best make darn sure it's actually an intruder and not your teenager sneaking back in after a night out with the boyfriend.)
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GRG a/k/a goldenrulegirl
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Post by GRG a/k/a goldenrulegirl on Oct 28, 2016 11:27:46 GMT -5
I'm so stupid, LOL!! I had to stop and think what a shotgun pump sounds like, LOL!! Good thing I don't enter other people's homes with nefarious intentions, LOL!!
Can you pump with an empty chamber to hopefully get the warning effect without actually shooting?
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GRG a/k/a goldenrulegirl
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Post by GRG a/k/a goldenrulegirl on Oct 28, 2016 11:30:51 GMT -5
But as with any other issue - it's complicated. Sometimes you want to be able to fire through a wall. Some of the self-defense theories involve not waiting for an intruder to come in and get you... the idea is that if you know there's an intruder go ahead and fire right through your door or wall to take them out before they become a threat. (And surely you see the big risk in that theory... best make darn sure it's actually an intruder and not your teenager sneaking back in after a night out with the boyfriend.) And some states don't subscribe to the Castle Doctrine so that you are obliged to escape rather than shoot through walls blindly. You are so right that it's a complicated issue. I have enough complicated issues in my life which is why I never considered owning a gun. Now I'm facing it head on and am on the nearly-vertical learning curve, so please forgive my dumb questions.
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milee
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Post by milee on Oct 28, 2016 11:42:06 GMT -5
But as with any other issue - it's complicated. Sometimes you want to be able to fire through a wall. Some of the self-defense theories involve not waiting for an intruder to come in and get you... the idea is that if you know there's an intruder go ahead and fire right through your door or wall to take them out before they become a threat. (And surely you see the big risk in that theory... best make darn sure it's actually an intruder and not your teenager sneaking back in after a night out with the boyfriend.) And some states don't subscribe to the Castle Doctrine so that you are obliged to escape rather than shoot through walls blindly. You are so right that it's a complicated issue. I have enough complicated issues in my life which is why I never considered owning a gun. Now I'm facing it head on and am on the nearly-vertical learning curve, so please forgive my dumb questions. It's funny, but the more formal training and education I get on both gun safety and boating, I'm struck at the similarities... 1) They're pasttimes/sports enjoyed by millions of people, the vast majority of whom have no clue what they're doing, what's safe or what's dangerous. 2) Most of the time things work out OK, but when things go wrong they can easily be deadly and it's not always the dummy who caused the problem that gets hurt or killed. In other words, innocent people tend to be the ones that pay for the lack of safety procedures rather than the person who owns the gun or is operating the boat. 3) Ironically, the more training and certification you get, the more personal liability you have. Just like most of the very experienced boaters I know avoid becoming officially certified as a captain (unless of course they need it for their job) because that gives them huge additional liability without giving them any additional protection in case something goes wrong, the more training and certification gun owners have they are also often subject to additional scrutiny under the idea that they should have known better or should have sufficient training to overcome ____.
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Post by The Walk of the Penguin Mich on Oct 28, 2016 11:46:16 GMT -5
But as with any other issue - it's complicated. Sometimes you want to be able to fire through a wall. Some of the self-defense theories involve not waiting for an intruder to come in and get you... the idea is that if you know there's an intruder go ahead and fire right through your door or wall to take them out before they become a threat. (And surely you see the big risk in that theory... best make darn sure it's actually an intruder and not your teenager sneaking back in after a night out with the boyfriend.) And some states don't subscribe to the Castle Doctrine so that you are obliged to escape rather than shoot through walls blindly. You are so right that it's a complicated issue. I have enough complicated issues in my life which is why I never considered owning a gun. Now I'm facing it head on and am on the nearly-vertical learning curve, so please forgive my dumb questions. It really sounds like you might want to go to a gun range and take a basic course yourself. They go over things like this, so you know what you can and cannot do according to your state. The rules vary considerably, and your not knowing your laws is not considered an excuse. Our gun instructor (who yearly goes to shoot with Masaad Ayoob) tells regularly of stories of guys who want to learn to shoot. They bring their reluctant wives, and it turns out that their wives take to it (and become better shots, mainly because they listen to instruction without preconceived notions) faster than their spouses.
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Post by The Walk of the Penguin Mich on Oct 28, 2016 11:50:56 GMT -5
I'm so stupid, LOL!! I had to stop and think what a shotgun pump sounds like, LOL!! Good thing I don't enter other people's homes with nefarious intentions, LOL!! Can you pump with an empty chamber to hopefully get the warning effect without actually shooting? You don't pick up a gun that you don't intend to shoot*... and you don't shoot at what you don't intend to kill. *meaning that when you handle a gun you fully expect it to fire and treat it accordingly (not aiming at people, assume it's loaded, not mess around, etc So no, I wouldn't use a shotgun as a prop or a bluff. If I didn't intend to shoot it I'd be figuring out another form of self defense. There are a few edicts that all good gun owners should ascribe. Treat every gun as a loaded gun. Do not aim at anything you do not intend to shoot. Keep your finger off the trigger until you intend to shoot. Finally, know what you are shooting and what is behind. JB says assume that there is a daycare center with a lawyer's kid in the background.
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milee
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Post by milee on Oct 28, 2016 12:12:14 GMT -5
Finally, know what you are shooting and what is behind. JB says assume that there is a daycare center with a lawyer's kid in the background. We had a mystery murder here a little while ago. Very rare and took a while for the police to figure out. A man was found dead in his driveway with no signs of a struggle, watering can in his hand and at first no signs of what killed him. Wasn't until the autopsy that they discovered a single bullet wound in his neck. Neighbors hadn't heard any arguing or even a gun shot, the guy had no significant other and was known to be nice with no enemies, nothing was missing, no signs of any other person or intruder... just a dead guy. Turns out the yahoo across a field and a major road and in a completely separate subdivision got a new rifle and wanted to do some target practice. So he hung a bullseye on his wood fence in his back yard...
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Post by The Walk of the Penguin Mich on Oct 28, 2016 12:21:36 GMT -5
Finally, know what you are shooting and what is behind. JB says assume that there is a daycare center with a lawyer's kid in the background. We had a mystery murder here a little while ago. Very rare and took a while for the police to figure out. A man was found dead in his driveway with no signs of a struggle, watering can in his hand and at first no signs of what killed him. Wasn't until the autopsy that they discovered a single bullet wound in his neck. Neighbors hadn't heard any arguing or even a gun shot, the guy had no significant other and was known to be nice with no enemies, nothing was missing, no signs of any other person or intruder... just a dead guy. Turns out the yahoo across a field and a major road and in a completely separate subdivision got a new rifle and wanted to do some target practice. So he hung a bullseye on his wood fence in his back yard... This happened in here too. People were out target shooting in a very rural area, but the stray bullets went further than expected. In the mall shooting that occurred in OR a couple years ago, apparently this was the reason a CWP holder didn't fire. He saw someone moving in the store behind the shooter, and didn't shoot. pjmedia.com/blog/armed-young-man-stopped-oregon-mall-shooter/
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countrygirl
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Post by countrygirl on Oct 28, 2016 12:25:19 GMT -5
Ours were inherited from both dads, and son, we have never bought a one. Oh and a couple of small ones from my mom!!
We have had a murder out this way right after I moved back or wouldn't even worry about it. Being it was close by and I was alone with DD, put the gun under there and did have one in the nightstand, don't since hubby is home.
I do carry in the motorhome and I have a CCWs permit
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milee
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Post by milee on Oct 28, 2016 12:30:47 GMT -5
I do carry in the motorhome and I have a CCWs permit
I have a Concealed Carry Permit in Florida. Not because I ever carry a concealed gun (the only times I shoot is when I go with DH and the sons to support them or hang as a family... it's not how I'd choose to spend my free time) but because a couple of times when DH and I traded cars I discovered guns in his car and I didn't want to ever be put in a situation where I was unknowingly doing something illegal. Anyway, so even though I have the permit and sometimes shoot, it's not something I am really interested in or researched. That's my way of leading up to what may be a stupid question - but when you're driving in your motorhome, do you research the route and figure out what the gun laws are for the states you're crossing? I don't remember all the details, but I do remember that a permit in one state doesn't necessarily give you rights in another state and every state has different rules. How do you ensure that you're not doing something accidentally illegal when you drive through some random state?
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countrygirl
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Post by countrygirl on Oct 28, 2016 12:34:59 GMT -5
Could be, I carry it unloaded with the ammo in the next drawer down.
Never been stopped, if I were would immediately disclose it and go from there, no I do not research routes. Illinois was the big bad one, but they have now made it legal.
I do not go in the northeastern states and most of the south and west are legal. I could start checking each state and if found it was illegal could lock it in a bay.
I have never seen a cop stop a motorhome yet.
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GRG a/k/a goldenrulegirl
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Post by GRG a/k/a goldenrulegirl on Oct 28, 2016 12:41:31 GMT -5
I do carry in the motorhome and I have a CCWs permit
I have a Concealed Carry Permit in Florida. Not because I ever carry a concealed gun (the only times I shoot is when I go with DH and the sons to support them or hang as a family... it's not how I'd choose to spend my free time) but because a couple of times when DH and I traded cars I discovered guns in his car and I didn't want to ever be put in a situation where I was unknowingly doing something illegal. Anyway, so even though I have the permit and sometimes shoot, it's not something I am really interested in or researched. That's my way of leading up to what may be a stupid question - but when you're driving in your motorhome, do you research the route and figure out what the gun laws are for the states you're crossing? I don't remember all the details, but I do remember that a permit in one state doesn't necessarily give you rights in another state and every state has different rules. How do you ensure that you're not doing something accidentally illegal when you drive through some random state? Not a stupid question -- awesome question. As I explained to YDS (who plans to take his gun safety course here in Massachusetts over Christmas Break), the laws may be very different in other states. He needs to know those laws and the differences BEFORE he buys a gun and transports it across state lines.
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tractor
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Post by tractor on Oct 28, 2016 13:36:28 GMT -5
Practice, practice, practice along with a good gun/hunters safety class. Although if his only reason for buying a gun is to be safe while out in the woods, he's doing it for the wrong reason. I have spent hundreds (thousands?) of hours in the woods over my career and was never once attacked by any wild critters, it's the urban folks that scare me 😐.
Like other have said, I have many guns in all varieties, the first thing he should determine is what he plans to use it for. Shotguns are great for bird hunting, rifles for larger game, and handguns for personal defense.
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Post by The Walk of the Penguin Mich on Oct 28, 2016 14:23:29 GMT -5
I do carry in the motorhome and I have a CCWs permit
I have a Concealed Carry Permit in Florida. Not because I ever carry a concealed gun (the only times I shoot is when I go with DH and the sons to support them or hang as a family... it's not how I'd choose to spend my free time) but because a couple of times when DH and I traded cars I discovered guns in his car and I didn't want to ever be put in a situation where I was unknowingly doing something illegal. Anyway, so even though I have the permit and sometimes shoot, it's not something I am really interested in or researched. That's my way of leading up to what may be a stupid question - but when you're driving in your motorhome, do you research the route and figure out what the gun laws are for the states you're crossing? I don't remember all the details, but I do remember that a permit in one state doesn't necessarily give you rights in another state and every state has different rules. How do you ensure that you're not doing something accidentally illegal when you drive through some random state? This is really important. I remember waiting to be interviewed for my CWP, and talking to another guy who was waiting there for the same reason. There was another woman too. The guy wanted his CWP because he drove to CA all the time and wanted to be legal. CA does not recognize anyone's CWP, and I tried to tell him that the best thing that could happen if he got caught in CA is his gun confiscated, and it was not unheard of for people to be tossed in jail. There are a few other states just as restrictive. I have reciprocity of my CWP in 38 states with some classes and exams I've taken. This is is a really good book to get. We have it too. www.amazon.com/Travelers-Guide-Firearms-Fifty-States/dp/0972548971/ref=sr_1_1?ie=UTF8&qid=1477682456&sr=8-1&keywords=gun+laws+by+state+2016
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Post by The Walk of the Penguin Mich on Oct 28, 2016 14:28:11 GMT -5
I have a Concealed Carry Permit in Florida. Not because I ever carry a concealed gun (the only times I shoot is when I go with DH and the sons to support them or hang as a family... it's not how I'd choose to spend my free time) but because a couple of times when DH and I traded cars I discovered guns in his car and I didn't want to ever be put in a situation where I was unknowingly doing something illegal. Anyway, so even though I have the permit and sometimes shoot, it's not something I am really interested in or researched. That's my way of leading up to what may be a stupid question - but when you're driving in your motorhome, do you research the route and figure out what the gun laws are for the states you're crossing? I don't remember all the details, but I do remember that a permit in one state doesn't necessarily give you rights in another state and every state has different rules. How do you ensure that you're not doing something accidentally illegal when you drive through some random state? Not a stupid question -- awesome question. As I explained to YDS (who plans to take his gun safety course here in Massachusetts over Christmas Break), the laws may be very different in other states. He needs to know those laws and the differences BEFORE he buys a gun and transports it across state lines. Very important. For instance, you can transport through NY with a gun, but if you stop it is considered your destination and you become illegal. VT has no such laws, which was how we flew out of NY with my dad's guns after his death. We drove directly to Burlington, and checked the gun case. My gun instructor flies with his gun all the time. The only places he won't go are NY and Illinois.
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milee
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Post by milee on Oct 28, 2016 14:46:17 GMT -5
I have a Concealed Carry Permit in Florida. Not because I ever carry a concealed gun (the only times I shoot is when I go with DH and the sons to support them or hang as a family... it's not how I'd choose to spend my free time) but because a couple of times when DH and I traded cars I discovered guns in his car and I didn't want to ever be put in a situation where I was unknowingly doing something illegal. Anyway, so even though I have the permit and sometimes shoot, it's not something I am really interested in or researched. That's my way of leading up to what may be a stupid question - but when you're driving in your motorhome, do you research the route and figure out what the gun laws are for the states you're crossing? I don't remember all the details, but I do remember that a permit in one state doesn't necessarily give you rights in another state and every state has different rules. How do you ensure that you're not doing something accidentally illegal when you drive through some random state? This is really important. I remember waiting to be interviewed for my CWP, and talking to another guy who was waiting there for the same reason. There was another woman too. The guy wanted his CWP because he drove to CA all the time and wanted to be legal. CA does not recognize anyone's CWP, and I tried to tell him that the best thing that could happen if he got caught in CA is his gun confiscated, and it was not unheard of for people to be tossed in jail. There are a few other states just as restrictive. I have reciprocity of my CWP in 38 states with some classes and exams I've taken. This is is a really good book to get. We have it too. www.amazon.com/Travelers-Guide-Firearms-Fifty-States/dp/0972548971/ref=sr_1_1?ie=UTF8&qid=1477682456&sr=8-1&keywords=gun+laws+by+state+2016DH probably has the book and if I asked would know off the top of his head (he has a great memory and this is a subject he loves, so...), but I try to avoid asking things where I will die of boredom if he answers. He's very careful and aware of the inter-state issue, though, especially now that he travels some for competition and clinics. A month ago he drove up to North Carolina for some sort of obscure gunsmithing class on how to modify 1911s for competition shooting and I think he actually shipped some guns up there rather than have them in the car. Not sure if that was an issue of not wanting to run afoul of CWP laws or concern about theft. And I'm not going to ask because... don't need a two hour talk on various state gun laws.
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