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Post by Deleted on Oct 25, 2016 13:40:09 GMT -5
How does this work? His will left everything to his children? Yeah, this makes no sense if they were legally married. Every state, as far as I know, has a statutory % of the estate that goes to the widow, typically 1/2 or 2/3, with the rest to the kids, if any. That's what she gets if there's no will. If the will provides for less than that she can elect to "take against the will" and get her statutory share. Not sure how this would be affected if she signed a pre-nup or if the house was in husband's name with the kids as "joint tenants with right of survivor".
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Tiny
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Post by Tiny on Oct 25, 2016 13:46:41 GMT -5
This also happened to a family friend. She was married to this guy for years (I'm talking 25+). They never had kids. He had kids from a previous marriage. She moved in with him. He died. She was left with nothing. No money, no home. I could not understand it either. how does this work? His will left everything to his children? Maybe she wasn't left with a big fat goose egg - but I wouldn't doubt that she could have been left with very little that sure felt like nothing. The money/assets went to whoever was listed as beneficiary on the account or who was on the deed to the house? So, if his term insurance, retirement accounts, bank accounts, etc, listed his ex wife or someone else his sister/brother/mother or someone else as beneficiary the property/asset wouldn't go to his wife.
One's will doesn't override the kinds of things where you've designated a 'beneficiary'. OK, maybe it does but you probably have to spend a lot of time an effort (lawyer up?) to make the override happen.
Would a will override something like 250K worth of term life insurance - if the beneficiary listed is the ex-wife or some other blood relative?
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Post by Deleted on Oct 25, 2016 14:03:46 GMT -5
How does this work? His will left everything to his children? Yeah, this makes no sense if they were legally married. Every state, as far as I know, has a statutory % of the estate that goes to the widow, typically 1/2 or 2/3, with the rest to the kids, if any. That's what she gets if there's no will. If the will provides for less than that she can elect to "take against the will" and get her statutory share. Not sure how this would be affected if she signed a pre-nup or if the house was in husband's name with the kids as "joint tenants with right of survivor". Are you sure? When I remarried the second time I consulted my attorney about making sure older son wouldn't be left in the lurch if I died. I was told anything that had DS listed as the beneficiary on would go to him. For the first year I had him on practically everything but the house. I didn't mess with the house and the 401K my husband had to sign a form saying he knew he wasn't the beneficiary, but nothing else required that.
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Miss Tequila
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Post by Miss Tequila on Oct 25, 2016 14:17:19 GMT -5
Yeah, this makes no sense if they were legally married. Every state, as far as I know, has a statutory % of the estate that goes to the widow, typically 1/2 or 2/3, with the rest to the kids, if any. That's what she gets if there's no will. If the will provides for less than that she can elect to "take against the will" and get her statutory share. Not sure how this would be affected if she signed a pre-nup or if the house was in husband's name with the kids as "joint tenants with right of survivor". Are you sure? When I remarried the second time I consulted my attorney about making sure older son wouldn't be left in the lurch if I died. I was told anything that had DS listed as the beneficiary on would go to him. For the first year I had him on practically everything but the house. I didn't mess with the house and the 401K my husband had to sign a form saying he knew he wasn't the beneficiary, but nothing else required that. When I bought property in Florida on my own, the only reason my ex didn't get spousal interest was because we never lived there. Even though we had separate finances, in Florida at least, he would have signed a release to his interest or he was legally entitled to the house. Of course I didn't care about that since we would be married forever, right....
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Post by The Walk of the Penguin Mich on Oct 25, 2016 14:18:53 GMT -5
How does this work? His will left everything to his children? Yeah, this makes no sense if they were legally married. Every state, as far as I know, has a statutory % of the estate that goes to the widow, typically 1/2 or 2/3, with the rest to the kids, if any. That's what she gets if there's no will. If the will provides for less than that she can elect to "take against the will" and get her statutory share. Not sure how this would be affected if she signed a pre-nup or if the house was in husband's name with the kids as "joint tenants with right of survivor". I was on a group where one of the women on it was left in a similar situation. Her husband had tied up all the assets other than the house in a trust, and the woman could only receive a portion of the earnings of the trust, the balance was going to his alma mater. This was during a time where the stock market was tanking, so what she got from the trust was minimal, and she was existing only off her SS income. We got this story second hand, so I'm clueless as to whether or not she was burlesquing the issue. But she used to calculate to the penny how much it would cost her to drive to town each time. She was sitting on what appeared to be a prime piece of property, but land values tanked too. It was sad.
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Miss Tequila
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Post by Miss Tequila on Oct 25, 2016 14:26:44 GMT -5
Yeah, this makes no sense if they were legally married. Every state, as far as I know, has a statutory % of the estate that goes to the widow, typically 1/2 or 2/3, with the rest to the kids, if any. That's what she gets if there's no will. If the will provides for less than that she can elect to "take against the will" and get her statutory share. Not sure how this would be affected if she signed a pre-nup or if the house was in husband's name with the kids as "joint tenants with right of survivor". I was on a group where one of the women on it was left in a similar situation. Her husband had tied up all the assets other than the house in a trust, and the woman could only receive a portion of the earnings of the trust, the balance was going to his alma mater. This was during a time where the stock market was tanking, so what she got from the trust was minimal, and she was existing only off her SS income. We got this story second hand, so I'm clueless as to whether or not she was burlesquing the issue. But she used to calculate to the penny how much it would cost her to drive to town each time. She was sitting on what appeared to be a prime piece of property, but land values tanked too. It was sad. Was it a new marriage or were they married a long time? I know that no one agrees with me but a spouse of 40 years would get my assets. A spouse of just a few years wouldn't get anything outside of what was earned when I was married. The bulk of my assets will go to my children. But I also wouldn't let someone think they were getting my assets only to find out when I died that they weren't.
My ex is still the beneficiary of my insurance policy and 401k plan. I'm also his (or at least I'm supposed to be). Once the kids turn 18 I will change that. I have to think through what to do because my oldest is the opposite of me...she would piss through my money in months!
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Post by The Walk of the Penguin Mich on Oct 25, 2016 14:36:09 GMT -5
I was on a group where one of the women on it was left in a similar situation. Her husband had tied up all the assets other than the house in a trust, and the woman could only receive a portion of the earnings of the trust, the balance was going to his alma mater. This was during a time where the stock market was tanking, so what she got from the trust was minimal, and she was existing only off her SS income. We got this story second hand, so I'm clueless as to whether or not she was burlesquing the issue. But she used to calculate to the penny how much it would cost her to drive to town each time. She was sitting on what appeared to be a prime piece of property, but land values tanked too. It was sad. Was it a new marriage or were they married a long time? I know that no one agrees with me but a spouse of 40 years would get my assets. A spouse of just a few years wouldn't get anything outside of what was earned when I was married. The bulk of my assets will go to my children. But I also wouldn't let someone think they were getting my assets only to find out when I died that they weren't.
My ex is still the beneficiary of my insurance policy and 401k plan. I'm also his (or at least I'm supposed to be). Once the kids turn 18 I will change that. I have to think through what to do because my oldest is the opposite of me...she would piss through my money in months!
She had been married to him a long time, and he did not leave her the resources to live comfortably. His college trumped his wife, it wasn't even his children.
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Miss Tequila
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Post by Miss Tequila on Oct 25, 2016 14:39:36 GMT -5
Was it a new marriage or were they married a long time? I know that no one agrees with me but a spouse of 40 years would get my assets. A spouse of just a few years wouldn't get anything outside of what was earned when I was married. The bulk of my assets will go to my children. But I also wouldn't let someone think they were getting my assets only to find out when I died that they weren't.
My ex is still the beneficiary of my insurance policy and 401k plan. I'm also his (or at least I'm supposed to be). Once the kids turn 18 I will change that. I have to think through what to do because my oldest is the opposite of me...she would piss through my money in months!
She had been married to him a long time, and he did not leave her the resources to live comfortably. His college trumped his wife, it wasn't even his children. That's just sad...and another reason why I never trust a man with my financial security. You just never know when he will screw you over (I might be slightly jaded ).
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Post by Deleted on Oct 25, 2016 15:15:38 GMT -5
Would a will override something like 250K worth of term life insurance - if the beneficiary listed is the ex-wife or some other blood relative? I agree that it's possible to structure your estate so that the surviving spouse's statutory share is 1/2 or 2/3 of very little. House is in the trust or held with a child as joint tenants with right of survivor, IRA beneficiary is ex-wife, life insurance beneficiary is one or more kids, etc. As you've said, assets which have a specific beneficiary named already aren't subject to the terms of the will. Among the many sad stories after 9/11 was one where the husband was killed in the attack and his mother was still the beneficiary of his employer-paid life insurance even though he'd married the year before. Mom didn't need the money and the wife really did- but there was nothing the wife could do. I'm hoping Mom gave her portion of the proceeds at least.
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zibazinski
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Post by zibazinski on Oct 25, 2016 16:20:17 GMT -5
Would a will override something like 250K worth of term life insurance - if the beneficiary listed is the ex-wife or some other blood relative? I agree that it's possible to structure your estate so that the surviving spouse's statutory share is 1/2 or 2/3 of very little. House is in the trust or held with a child as joint tenants with right of survivor, IRA beneficiary is ex-wife, life insurance beneficiary is one or more kids, etc. As you've said, assets which have a specific beneficiary named already aren't subject to the terms of the will. Among the many sad stories after 9/11 was one where the husband was killed in the attack and his mother was still the beneficiary of his employer-paid life insurance even though he'd married the year before. Mom didn't need the money and the wife really did- but there was nothing the wife could do. I'm hoping Mom gave her portion of the proceeds at least. Hah!
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Post by Deleted on Oct 25, 2016 17:24:28 GMT -5
That's just sad...and another reason why I never trust a man with my financial security. You just never know when he will screw you over (I might be slightly jaded ). Not always true. I'm female but DH always handed his income over to me-he knew I was better at putting it to work and he trusted me to pay the bills. And so I have! Since he doesn't have much time left we're busy making sure he leaves little in the way of an estate. House has been in a trust in my name for a few years. I just had our second car inspected today so it could be transferred to me- the other was done earlier this month. I also have his bank account info so I can withdraw anything left. OTOH- at my 40th HS reunion I overheard one of the women who had been pretty, popular and smart telling her story. Widowed early with 3 little kids. Degree in social work- a noble but non-lucrative profession. Someone suggested she get training to be a home health aide and she said, "I can barely pay my mortgage" (I. E. She couldn't afford schooling.). Really sad.
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suesinfl
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Post by suesinfl on Oct 25, 2016 17:28:22 GMT -5
I think I will be ok (financially) without him. It does hurt to think about. As if the finances somehow are the most important thing we have to deal with after our spouse is gone... No, they're not the most important but it sure beats adding financial worries onto the body blow of losing a spouse. DH and I were watching HGTV in our travels earlier this month and a couple was looking for an apartment in Barcelona where they could live for a year while the husband wrote a book. I was mildly jealous and then I realized that after DH is gone I can choose any European city and park myself in an Airbnb place for a month if I want. And yes, I talk about this with DH and he supports it. In the meantime, if I need counseling or other support, I can get it and still pay the mortgage. It won't bring DH back but I'll have a better life after he's gone with money than without it. Athena, I am so impressed with how open you and your DH, I mean you both know the outcome, but still, being able to talk about your future without him is wonderful. You know that he approves of what you want to do and you don't have to wonder/feel guilty enjoying your life.
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Bonny
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Post by Bonny on Oct 25, 2016 17:48:25 GMT -5
This also happened to a family friend. She was married to this guy for years (I'm talking 25+). They never had kids. He had kids from a previous marriage. She moved in with him. He died. She was left with nothing. No money, no home. I could not understand it either. how does this work? His will left everything to his children? I'm not sure we'll get the full story. If he owned the house before she came into the picture and was very careful about separating his finances it's possible she had no interest in the house. More than likely she did get an incremental interest but it wasn't worth it for her to fight it.
I recently became of a weird scenario with some friends of ours. They have been living in a house bought by his parents 20 years ago. Apparently it's in some kind of Trust whereby the house will pass to him and if he pre-deceases his parents the property will go to the kids. I don't know that the wife even has a life estate. She's a nice lady and I can't imagine the pitfalls associated with how this could go so wrong for her. They seem pretty happy and the kids are good kids but you never know...
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emma1420
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Post by emma1420 on Oct 25, 2016 17:54:09 GMT -5
My dad has his assets set up so that my step-mother only receives the spousal payment from his pension. My step-mom receives nothing else. All his assets go to my brother and I. Her assets are structured similarly with her children being the beneficiaries.
This situation works because they both have the funds individually to support themselves. If they didn't, I suspect their would be another arrangement. But, my step-mom isn't entitled to a third or half simply for being married to my dad.
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thyme4change
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Post by thyme4change on Oct 25, 2016 19:04:41 GMT -5
My dad has his assets set up so that my step-mother only receives the spousal payment from his pension. My step-mom receives nothing else. All his assets go to my brother and I. Her assets are structured similarly with her children being the beneficiaries. This situation works because they both have the funds individually to support themselves. If they didn't, I suspect their would be another arrangement. But, my step-mom isn't entitled to a third or half simply for being married to my dad. My parents trust is set up in a way that neither of them can will everything to a new spouse. Thanks Mom and Dad!!!
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Miss Tequila
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Post by Miss Tequila on Oct 26, 2016 8:20:45 GMT -5
My dad has his assets set up so that my step-mother only receives the spousal payment from his pension. My step-mom receives nothing else. All his assets go to my brother and I. Her assets are structured similarly with her children being the beneficiaries. This situation works because they both have the funds individually to support themselves. If they didn't, I suspect their would be another arrangement. But, my step-mom isn't entitled to a third or half simply for being married to my dad. My parents trust is set up in a way that neither of them can will everything to a new spouse. Thanks Mom and Dad!!! And that's exactly what I would do. If I married someone later in life I certainly wouldn't feel entitled to any of his assets. It would have been different with my first husband because we built everything together. To walk into a marriage later in life, especially when their are children, I would never feel entitled to his assets nor would I think he was entitled to mine.
I think the key is communication. If I were to ever consider remarrying I would be very upfront as far as where my assets will go when I die. if he can't accept that my children will inherit most of my estate, then he doesn't truly love me for me and isn't worth my time.
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zibazinski
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Post by zibazinski on Oct 26, 2016 8:32:06 GMT -5
The problem lies when one person is told one thing and then another happens. I don't believe for a minute that DH thought what's happened would happen but if he planned it that way, I had a right to know.
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Miss Tequila
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Post by Miss Tequila on Oct 26, 2016 9:12:53 GMT -5
The problem lies when one person is told one thing and then another happens. I don't believe for a minute that DH thought what's happened would happen but if he planned it that way, I had a right to know. Which is why I said communication is important.
I have no intention of leaving the bulk of my assets to someone I marry later in life. Those are not assets that we earned together so I believe my children should benefit. It would be different if I died married to the father of my children because we would have earned those assets together. But even then, I wouldn't trust him not to marry someone and leave everything to her instead of my children.
On the flip side, if I ever marry again he would have had a lifetime to build his estate with no involvement from me. I would feel his assets should go to his children. If we don't agree then we don't marry. But I completely disagree with someone lying to their spouse about their intentions.
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Post by Deleted on Oct 26, 2016 9:15:32 GMT -5
If I married someone later in life I certainly wouldn't feel entitled to any of his assets. It would have been different with my first husband because we built everything together. To walk into a marriage later in life, especially when there are children, I would never feel entitled to his assets nor would I think he was entitled to mine. Yeah, that's where DH and I stood. I brought the lion's share of the income and assets into the marriage 13 years ago so what's left after he's gone will (mostly) support me and then pass on to DS. (Thanks to useful input on another very long thread, we agreed on bequests to his son and to his brother but those are outside of the will.) We set everything up with a lawyer who clearly explained it and knew DH was fine with it.
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Miss Tequila
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Post by Miss Tequila on Oct 26, 2016 9:17:36 GMT -5
If I married someone later in life I certainly wouldn't feel entitled to any of his assets. It would have been different with my first husband because we built everything together. To walk into a marriage later in life, especially when there are children, I would never feel entitled to his assets nor would I think he was entitled to mine. Yeah, that's where DH and I stood. I brought the lion's share of the income and assets into the marriage 13 years ago so what's left after he's gone will (mostly) support me and then pass on to DS. (Thanks to useful input on another very long thread, we agreed on bequests to his son and to his brother but those are outside of the will.) We set everything up with a lawyer who clearly explained it and knew DH was fine with it. Communication is key. It also weeds out the gold diggers who would be after my money (not that I'm rich by any means, but for my area I'm doing much better than a typical single mom). It wasn't until I had to re-enter the dating pool in my 40s that I realized that there are a lot of broke ass men out there!lol I'm not looking to be anyone's sugar momma, dammit
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thyme4change
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Post by thyme4change on Oct 26, 2016 9:26:31 GMT -5
I have been very neutral about my parent's money. They put me through college and helped me when I was young and with my kids and such, so I always felt like they could do whatever they wanted with their money. At one time they told me they wanted to skip a generation, so my kids and nieces and nephews would get the bulk of it. I was fine with that, and I would be fine if it went to one of their many charitable organizations they support. But I did get a little indignant when I heard one of those stories where an older person marries a shyster and leaves everything to the new spouse, and the new spouse leaves everything to their kids. I got all mad thinking my parent's hard work would benefit some stranger. Charity stranger, okay. Random stranger, not okay. I feel kinda bad about thinking that way.
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Miss Tequila
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Post by Miss Tequila on Oct 26, 2016 9:39:34 GMT -5
I have been very neutral about my parent's money. They put me through college and helped me when I was young and with my kids and such, so I always felt like they could do whatever they wanted with their money. At one time they told me they wanted to skip a generation, so my kids and nieces and nephews would get the bulk of it. I was fine with that, and I would be fine if it went to one of their many charitable organizations they support. But I did get a little indignant when I heard one of those stories where an older person marries a shyster and leaves everything to the new spouse, and the new spouse leaves everything to their kids. I got all mad thinking my parent's hard work would benefit some stranger. Charity stranger, okay. Random stranger, not okay. I feel kinda bad about thinking that way. I actually agree with you...and I don't feel bad about it!lol
Even when I was married I thought about that. I would have wanted to make sure that our assets (or at least my portion of them) went to him and then the kids, not some bimbo he later hooked up with after I died.
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zibazinski
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Post by zibazinski on Oct 26, 2016 9:43:04 GMT -5
Some bimbos do the dirty work the kids don't want to.
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thyme4change
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Post by thyme4change on Oct 26, 2016 9:45:44 GMT -5
I have been very neutral about my parent's money. They put me through college and helped me when I was young and with my kids and such, so I always felt like they could do whatever they wanted with their money. At one time they told me they wanted to skip a generation, so my kids and nieces and nephews would get the bulk of it. I was fine with that, and I would be fine if it went to one of their many charitable organizations they support. But I did get a little indignant when I heard one of those stories where an older person marries a shyster and leaves everything to the new spouse, and the new spouse leaves everything to their kids. I got all mad thinking my parent's hard work would benefit some stranger. Charity stranger, okay. Random stranger, not okay. I feel kinda bad about thinking that way. I actually agree with you...and I don't feel bad about it!lol
Even when I was married I thought about that. I would have wanted to make sure that our assets (or at least my portion of them) went to him and then the kids, not some bimbo he later hooked up with after I died.
My parents are smart, but generous. My husband is pretty easy to p-whip, and he has gotten more desirable with age, so a beautiful gold digger could probably convince him of all sorts of stuff. Maybe my death would harden his heart.
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Miss Tequila
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Post by Miss Tequila on Oct 26, 2016 9:49:20 GMT -5
I actually agree with you...and I don't feel bad about it!lol
Even when I was married I thought about that. I would have wanted to make sure that our assets (or at least my portion of them) went to him and then the kids, not some bimbo he later hooked up with after I died.
My parents are smart, but generous. My husband is pretty easy to p-whip, and he has gotten more desirable with age, so a beautiful gold digger could probably convince him of all sorts of stuff. Maybe my death would harden his heart. Most men are stupid...or maybe they don't care that they are being used for their money...or are men that stupid to think that young hottie is in love with their 60 year old selves??
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zibazinski
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Post by zibazinski on Oct 26, 2016 9:58:52 GMT -5
Yes, I've always pointed out that if Hugh Hefner lived in an apartment and drove a truck, how many nymphs could he get?
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Miss Tequila
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Post by Miss Tequila on Oct 26, 2016 10:08:53 GMT -5
Yes, I've always pointed out that if Hugh Hefner lived in an apartment and drove a truck, how many nymphs could he get? lol!
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Post by Deleted on Oct 26, 2016 10:11:45 GMT -5
I like trucks...not old men...but trucks.
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swamp
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Post by swamp on Oct 26, 2016 10:11:52 GMT -5
I have been very neutral about my parent's money. They put me through college and helped me when I was young and with my kids and such, so I always felt like they could do whatever they wanted with their money. At one time they told me they wanted to skip a generation, so my kids and nieces and nephews would get the bulk of it. I was fine with that, and I would be fine if it went to one of their many charitable organizations they support. But I did get a little indignant when I heard one of those stories where an older person marries a shyster and leaves everything to the new spouse, and the new spouse leaves everything to their kids. I got all mad thinking my parent's hard work would benefit some stranger. Charity stranger, okay. Random stranger, not okay. I feel kinda bad about thinking that way. If it's any consolation, I agree with you.
Anyone is free to leave their money to whomever they want, including my parents. However, it would be a slap in the face to see their life accumulation go to some step sibling with no relationship to them.
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thyme4change
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Post by thyme4change on Oct 26, 2016 10:15:56 GMT -5
I have been very neutral about my parent's money. They put me through college and helped me when I was young and with my kids and such, so I always felt like they could do whatever they wanted with their money. At one time they told me they wanted to skip a generation, so my kids and nieces and nephews would get the bulk of it. I was fine with that, and I would be fine if it went to one of their many charitable organizations they support. But I did get a little indignant when I heard one of those stories where an older person marries a shyster and leaves everything to the new spouse, and the new spouse leaves everything to their kids. I got all mad thinking my parent's hard work would benefit some stranger. Charity stranger, okay. Random stranger, not okay. I feel kinda bad about thinking that way. If it's any consolation, I agree with you.
Anyone is free to leave their money to whomever they want, including my parents. However, it would be a slap in the face to see their life accumulation go to some step sibling with no relationship to them.
Especially now that my parents are 75. Their future step kids would probably be 50-something.
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