S T E M

[sesfw]

But "STEM only" for loans is too restrictive, and that's coming from an engineer.


I'm not arguing that point ........ but you have to start somewhere.  

It's gotten out of hand because of too many 'exceptions'.

[Deleted]

I think 100K+ for undergrad is crazy no matter what the degree program.  I realize that tuition is expensive, but if it's where you're going to have to borrow 100% of the cost then maybe you need to think of alternatives.  There's no guarantees you're going to make the kind of money to easily pay that off or that you're even going to graduate!  The ones that are really sickening are those that make it 2-3 years and then for whatever reason need to drop out. 

[wvugurl26]

I know many places are running around $20-25k a year. If you have to borrow all of it then it's easily $100k.

[Deleted]

I get that, but can they come up with NO money over the course of 4 years?  No savings before going, no PT job?  Nothing?  That just wouldn't be an option for me.  I would join the service or get a job with tuition reimbursement, or take a year or two to stockpile some cash before I borrowed 100%. 

[MJ2.0]

Aug 1, 2016 10:46:49 GMT -5 minnesotapaintlady said:

I get that, but can they come up with NO money over the course of 4 years?  No savings before going, no PT job?  Nothing?  That just wouldn't be an option for me.  I would join the service or get a job with tuition reimbursement, or take a year or two to stockpile some cash before I borrowed 100%. 

I have been considering the SMART program sponsored by the DoD. Basically, for STEM majors you apply for this program. If you get in, they cover all your tuition and give you a stipend of up to around $30k/year depending on your housing situation. You are then guaranteed a job upon graduation. The only drawback for me is that you can't control where they place you. You get to list your desired DoD locations, but if something comes up and they need you elsewhere, you have to go. If I could be guaranteed to get a job in the tri-state area I'd do it in a heartbeat. If I was childless it wouldn't be an issue... Or maybe if I could swing renting a room in NJ and visiting him on weekends...but I don't want to miss out on 5 years being close to DS.

[Deleted]

Kids complicate everything. 

[MJ2.0]

Literally EVERYTHING!!!!

[giramomma]

Aug 1, 2016 10:24:25 GMT -5 sesfw said:

But "STEM only" for loans is too restrictive, and that's coming from an engineer.


I'm not arguing that point ........ but you have to start somewhere.  

It's gotten out of hand because of too many 'exceptions'.

I know it's old:
From here www.fastweb.com/financial-aid/articles/who-really-graduates-with-100-000-or-more-in-student-loans

A report, Who Graduates College with Six-Figure Student Loan Debt?, finds that only 0.2% of undergraduate students and 6.4% of graduate students graduated with $100,000 or more in student loans in 2007-08. Far from being the 99-percenters, these students are among the 1-percenters when it comes to student loan debt.

From here: (Again, old, 2013)

The New York Fed said those who borrow $100,000 or more are about 3.1% of borrowers nationwide. But it's easy to see how students get there, with four years of private college tuition running $116,000 on average, according to the College Board.

So you are talking about trying to fix laws for such a minimal part of the population? Where's the cost benefit in that?

This reminds me of my lawmakers. They are willing to spend upwards of a million dollars investigating one case of voter fraud that turns out to be true. They always tell us voter fraud is a real thing. It's super scary because people are trying to game the voting system.

My state has like 3 million voters, and they investigate 12 cases of voter fraud, and 5 end up being a problem.

I'm not suggesting that voter fraud shouldn't be dealt with. But, our roads, our roads are going to be under funded by 1billion in the next two year budget. From my perspective. I'd rather that 5 million go to roads. I mean, our tax money isn't limitless. And I'd rather have my job, have good roads, and not worry about 5 people in 3 million that were convicted of voter fraud.

And it seems that laws that try to protect people from doing stupid things don't work anyway. People still don't wear seatbelts. People still smoke. People don't wear helmets when the ride motor cycles.

[NomoreDramaQ1015]

And it's not like it would reduce college costs.   Colleges aren't stupid, they'd simply raise the rates for anyone going into the majors were you are certain to get loans.  They then will use those costs to subsidize the programs where they aren't getting as much money coming in.

They will also change the programs in order to entice more students into those programs in order to make more money.   The dreaded "dumbing down" of STEM programs will happen.

The reason some of these fields command the salaries they do is because there are not enough people to go around to meet demand.  Once you have colleges churning out as many graduates as they can like they currently do for science, law and other fields the wages will go down because now employers can wait to take the lowest bidder.

What is the hot field today may not be the hot field once you graduate. .. or even tomorrow.   Nursing is a really good example of this, our nursing schools are churning out so many people that they've had to start limiting how many people they accept every year.   Hospitals are going to "on call" rolls for most nursing positions because they have more than enough people to fill the gaps.   Only a select few command the big dollars and a full time position with benefits.

It's not a BAD career, but I would not consider it to be "hot" anymore.  The supposed shortage of nurses is not happening, at least not in areas people want to live in around here.

I've had people insist i need to go into nursing because it's "hot".  I would need to get my BSN in order to command a salary that's more than what I make now which will cost me $80k.  There are too many new nurses and unemployed experienced nurses for me to command a salary that will get me a decent ROI on $80k.

Yes I could "get an RN" but all the hospitals here if you are a new graduate expect a BSN.   All experienced RNs are being expected to obtain their BSN as well.   RNs around here make about what I make now only have to work crappier hours and deal with patients.  I might as well stay here for the same salary.

All you're going to do by restricting who is allowed to get loans for school is eventually create the same situation in those chosen fields as is happening in other fields.

Instead of trying to control stupid people we should really be looking at the people who think it's acceptable to give an 18 year old a six figure loan and the people who think it's a great idea to charge that much for an education.

[Ombud]

With all due respect, you're stating the only degrees that have any validity are stem degrees. And in the same thought, you are overestimating the amount of student loan debt. I understand that the media is fueling this fear, but it isn't real. If most students graduate with 30,000 in student debt then it means their loan repayment will be $294 × 120 payments. Hardly earth shattering. But that doesn't make 'good news,' it's a non starter

Go to: studentloans.gov/myDirectLoan/mobile/repayment/repaymentEstimator.action And plug it in yourself if you don't believe me

[MJ2.0]

Aug 1, 2016 14:57:23 GMT -5 Ombud said:

With all due respect, you're stating the only degrees that have any validity are stem degrees. And in the same thought, you are overestimating the amount of student loan debt. I understand that the media is fueling this fear, but it isn't real. If most students graduate with 30,000 in student debt then it means their loan repayment will be $294 × 120 payments. Hardly earth shattering. But that doesn't make 'good news,' it's a non starter

Go to: studentloans.gov/myDirectLoan/mobile/repayment/repaymentEstimator.action And plug it in yourself if you don't believe me

these types of media articles are pointless. I'm sure you'll find people who graduated with STEM majors who are in the exact same boat. And you'll find a LOT of non-STEM graduates who paid their loans and who are doing just fine.

[giramomma]

I'm always interested in the costs of college. I'll give you that it's rather hard to find data for utilities. I did learn that my campus needs the same amount of power as 20,000 homes. And that our infrastructure is old.

In state Tuition at my alma matter is 10.5K a year. If someone takes 32 credits, the cost per credit is $328.

This is pretty close to per credit tuition at our tech schools. Our tech school charges 260/credit.

What is an appropriate price point per credit for college then?

[NomoreDramaQ1015]

Aug 1, 2016 15:10:23 GMT -5 MJ2.0 said:

Aug 1, 2016 14:57:23 GMT -5 Ombud said:

With all due respect, you're stating the only degrees that have any validity are stem degrees. And in the same thought, you are overestimating the amount of student loan debt. I understand that the media is fueling this fear, but it isn't real. If most students graduate with 30,000 in student debt then it means their loan repayment will be $294 × 120 payments. Hardly earth shattering. But that doesn't make 'good news,' it's a non starter

Go to: studentloans.gov/myDirectLoan/mobile/repayment/repaymentEstimator.action And plug it in yourself if you don't believe me

these types of media articles are pointless. I'm sure you'll find people who graduated with STEM majors who are in the exact same boat. And you'll find a LOT of non-STEM graduates who paid their loans and who are doing just fine.

Despite making good money and being smart enough to graduate medical school quite a few doctors are dumb with money.

Just because you picked the right major it doesn't mean you won't land yourself in hot water regarding your loans.

[chiver78]

Aug 1, 2016 14:57:23 GMT -5 Ombud said:

With all due respect, you're stating the only degrees that have any validity are stem degrees. And in the same thought, you are overestimating the amount of student loan debt. I understand that the media is fueling this fear, but it isn't real. If most students graduate with 30,000 in student debt then it means their loan repayment will be $294 × 120 payments. Hardly earth shattering. But that doesn't make 'good news,' it's a non starter

Go to: studentloans.gov/myDirectLoan/mobile/repayment/repaymentEstimator.action And plug it in yourself if you don't believe me

that sounds about right. I had just shy of $28k in loans, and my payments were $253.55.

[NomoreDramaQ1015]

Plus with student loans for the most part if you are willing to work with them they will bend over backwards to make sure you can make your payment.  I had to purchase a manila folder to keep all the paperwork my student loan company kept sending me while I was in school and after I graduated.  I think they murdered an entire forest.

You are made WELL aware of how much you are taking out, the interest rate and they will even give you estimates on what your payments will be.   If you don't then there is the FA office on campus you can talk to.

Nobody who graduates with six figures in loans should be shocked at what they owe or the fact they have to pay it back.  

You can't legislate stupid.   Instead of trying to force people to pick a YM approved major in order to fix a rather small percentage of the population how about we just ignore bait click articles designed to get a rise out of us?

[zibazinski]

Some of the doctors go crazy after med school because they've lived so hand to mouth all those years and feel they "deserve" it. A friend of mine lived for five extra years the way she lived through med school. She is now loan free, has the big house, nice car, nanny and maid. Plus, children !!

[Virgil Showlion]

Aug 2, 2016 9:30:33 GMT -5 @anne81 said:

Another way to address student loan repayment:

Americans owe $1.3 trillion in student loans. More than seven million borrowers are in default, and millions more are behind on their payments.

Borrowing for college is common across the globe. Even in Sweden, where tuition is free, most students borrow. What’s exceptional about the United States is that so many borrowers are behind on their loans.

So what do other countries do that makes their systems work better than ours?

Yet despite this widespread borrowing, there is no student debt crisis in Sweden, because payments are spread out over 25 years. They also start out low, rising slowly over time. In the United States, the typical repayment period is just 10 years.

All the international student loan experts I have spoken with are shocked by how little time American students are given to pay their loans. In Germany, students pay their loans over 20 years; in England, it’s 30 years.

This makes sense. A core principle of finance is that the length of debt payments should align with the life of the asset. We pay for cars over five years and homes over 30 years because homes last a lot longer than cars. An education pays off over a lifetime, so it makes sense that student loans should be paid off over a long term.

In Australia, income inequality is much higher than in Sweden. Yet while students borrow about as much as they do in the United States (30,000 Australian dollars, or about $22,000), the system works smoothly because borrowers pay nothing until their earnings reach about $40,000. Above that threshold, borrowers pay 4 percent of their income until the debt is paid off. Payments rise and fall automatically with earnings, just as our Social Security payments do.

www.nytimes.com/2016/07/10/upshot/america-can-fix-its-student-loan-crisis-just-ask-australia.html?_r=0

I love how they call it "fixing" the crisis.