Same God or not? Facts vs. fear.

[swamp]

Dec 29, 2015 11:28:48 GMT -5 Virgil Showlion said:

Dec 29, 2015 11:00:11 GMT -5 deminmaine said:

Virgil I think you are better off emphasizing point two.  In my experience most successful marriages fall somewhere within these parameters, minus that word "delegate".

Some people are recessive, and some are dominant, and this occurs naturally and harmoniously in marriages as well.  Often (but certainly not always) the male tends to be the more dominant partner, and the marriage functions well with this dynamic.  Often one dominates some things, and the other dominates others. However, even if a partner is dominant , there is always give and take in a healthy marriage- negotiation and compromise as you say. 

Some marriages function with one partner dominating and overpowering the other emotionally (and/ or physically) and this may seem peaceful to the outside world, but I think few here would consider that good or healthy, even when the dominated partner seems content.

That would depend a great deal on the specific meaning of "dominating and overpowering".

We've already had this debate. Let's summarize what we can agree on.

We agree that negotiation and compromise need to happen. We agree that a loving husband mustn't conduct himself like a tyrant, and we agree that both husband and wife will suffer grave unhappiness if he does.

Ideally a marriage will run into few impasses where negotiation and compromise fail to bring about a resolution. In the event such an impasse is reached, this is how God instructs Christians to resolve it. I've seen how it works; I've seen how the west's ideas work; I've seen how Islamic ideas work. I'll take Christian way hands down. If Mrs. Virgil was here, she'd tell you the same thing.

Have you ever seen My Big Fat Greek Wedding?     The Greek wives describe marriage as them man is the head, but the woman is the neck.  She decides which way to turn the head, and the head thinks it's in charge, it doesn't realize he's being turned in the direction the neck wants to go. 

I imagine Mrs. Virgil doing the same thing.

[Virgil Showlion]

Dec 29, 2015 11:32:12 GMT -5 swamp said:

Dec 29, 2015 11:28:48 GMT -5 Virgil Showlion said:

That would depend a great deal on the specific meaning of "dominating and overpowering".

We've already had this debate. Let's summarize what we can agree on.

We agree that negotiation and compromise need to happen. We agree that a loving husband mustn't conduct himself like a tyrant, and we agree that both husband and wife will suffer grave unhappiness if he does.

Ideally a marriage will run into few impasses where negotiation and compromise fail to bring about a resolution. In the event such an impasse is reached, this is how God instructs Christians to resolve it. I've seen how it works; I've seen how the west's ideas work; I've seen how Islamic ideas work. I'll take Christian way hands down. If Mrs. Virgil was here, she'd tell you the same thing.

Have you ever seen My Big Fat Greek Wedding?     The Greek wives describe marriage as them man is the head, but the woman is the neck.  She decides which way to turn the head, and the head thinks it's in charge, it doesn't realize he's being turned in the direction the neck wants to go. 

I imagine Mrs. Virgil doing the same thing.

I'm familiar with the expression, and there's truth in it.

I love my wife. She's my mate and my companion. I want her to be happy. She wants me to be happy. We're very blessed in that regard.

[Deleted]

Dec 29, 2015 10:45:03 GMT -5 swamp said:

I get why some women want to live that way, but i don't want to, so why is out attitude a mystery to you?

Also, it's very condescending to think that since your marriage is what you consider "Godly" that it is better than a non Christian marriage.       

And BTW, I don't think the Bible is archaic nonsense, I think it is an important part in the formation of western culture, and you need to know it to understand how history evolved. Other than the Golden Rule, I just don't think it's a manual for life.

So this!

[Virgil Showlion]

Dec 29, 2015 11:48:22 GMT -5 deminmaine said:

Where you differ is on what you do in the case of an impasse.  If that works for you and your wife, wonderful.  However in the case of a marriage where both people respect and care for one another the impasse will in fact be passed at some point.

Best of luck to you.

[swamp]

Dec 29, 2015 12:18:06 GMT -5 Virgil Showlion said:

Dec 29, 2015 11:48:22 GMT -5 deminmaine said:

Where you differ is on what you do in the case of an impasse.  If that works for you and your wife, wonderful.  However in the case of a marriage where both people respect and care for one another the impasse will in fact be passed at some point.

Best of luck to you.

Why the coffee drinking guy emoticon? To me its dismissive and condescending.

Why not use or    which are generally positive signs? 

[mmhmm]

Dec 29, 2015 11:48:22 GMT -5 deminmaine said:

Dec 29, 2015 11:28:48 GMT -5 Virgil Showlion said:

That would depend a great deal on the specific meaning of "dominating and overpowering".

We've already had this debate. Let's summarize what we can agree on.

We agree that negotiation and compromise need to happen. We agree that a loving husband mustn't conduct himself like a tyrant, and we agree that both husband and wife will suffer grave unhappiness if he does.

Ideally a marriage will run into few impasses where negotiation and compromise fail to bring about a resolution. In the event such an impasse is reached, this is how God instructs Christians to resolve it. I've seen how it works; I've seen how the west's ideas work; I've seen how Islamic ideas work. I'll take Christian way hands down. If Mrs. Virgil was here, she'd tell you the same thing.

Virgil I think we are all in agreement with about 90% of what you say above.

Where you differ is on what you do in the case of an impasse.  If that works for you and your wife, wonderful.  However in the case of a marriage where both people respect and care for one another the impasse will in fact be passed at some point. 

I also have seen cases where Christians understand the man in charge part, but not so much that negotiation and compromise part.  It still comes down to two people respecting one another, and acting accordingly.

I have a business in which I own 50% and a partner owns 50%.  Over more than 20 years we have used similar logic to manage the business, and I can assure you that in that case there is no male/ female dynamic whatsoever.  Logic, common sense and best business practices can prevail. 

Completely agree, dem. DH and I lived many, many happy years just that way. We knew one another's strengths and weaknesses and weren't about to ignore that knowledge. In some areas of our lives, his strengths took precedence. In others, mine did. Never did we reach an impasse we couldn't break through meaningful communication and a willingness to compromise and respect those individual strengths I mentioned previously. Neither of us ever mounted the throne. 

[mmhmm]

Dec 29, 2015 9:17:18 GMT -5 deminmaine said:

Actually it's rather ironic, because this sort of hierarchy is also promoted in much of the traditional Muslim world, and the argument here is about whether or not it is the same god. I would say so, and I would say that he has control of the remote in both worlds.  The difference is that in Iraq the TV is battery powered because shock and awe took out their power grid.

In my experience with Muslim families I knew personally, as friends, the truth wasn't as it's presented by western media. The woman pretty much held sway in the household, even in the more conservative families (not all Muslims are conservative, believe me!) The man generally made the decision when it came to the big, ol' world outside the home and family unit, since he spent more time in that world. I kinda laugh when I read western interpretations of this part of Muslim life, remembering some of my male Muslim friends coming into the office, all hang-dog, because their wives had said "Absolutely not!" to something they wanted to do. 

[Deleted]

Dec 29, 2015 12:54:07 GMT -5 mmhmm said:

Dec 29, 2015 9:17:18 GMT -5 deminmaine said:

Actually it's rather ironic, because this sort of hierarchy is also promoted in much of the traditional Muslim world, and the argument here is about whether or not it is the same god. I would say so, and I would say that he has control of the remote in both worlds.  The difference is that in Iraq the TV is battery powered because shock and awe took out their power grid.

In my experience with Muslim families I knew personally, as friends, the truth wasn't as it's presented by western media. The woman pretty much held sway in the household, even in the more conservative families (not all Muslims are conservative, believe me!) The man generally made the decision when it came to the big, ol' world outside the home and family unit, since he spent more time in that world. I kinda laugh when I read western interpretations of this part of Muslim life, remembering some of my male Muslim friends coming into the office, all hang-dog, because their wives had said "Absolutely not!" to something they wanted to do. 

It has been my experience that the Muslim women I know and work with have been VERY strong women who do not typically play the meek role in their relationships.

[mmhmm]

Dec 29, 2015 12:59:06 GMT -5 deminmaine said:

Dec 29, 2015 12:49:21 GMT -5 mmhmm said:

Completely agree, dem. DH and I lived many, many happy years just that way. We knew one another's strengths and weaknesses and weren't about to ignore that knowledge. In some areas of our lives, his strengths took precedence. In others, mine did. Never did we reach an impasse we couldn't break through meaningful communication and a willingness to compromise and respect those individual strengths I mentioned previously. Neither of us ever mounted the throne. 

That is inspirational experience for all of us mmhmm.  And isn't it wonderful as you look out onto the world that you have not only your own strengths and talents, but those of your mate?   

Absolutely, dem! Both of us were well aware we could not have done as much, seen as much, nor learned as much had we not worked together, as a team. Our lives were enhanced, one by the other, by seeing our equal in one another. I felt incredibly fortunate from the day I met him. He's always been, and will always be my completion.

[mmhmm]

Dec 29, 2015 13:03:22 GMT -5 @joey said:

Dec 29, 2015 12:54:07 GMT -5 mmhmm said:

In my experience with Muslim families I knew personally, as friends, the truth wasn't as it's presented by western media. The woman pretty much held sway in the household, even in the more conservative families (not all Muslims are conservative, believe me!) The man generally made the decision when it came to the big, ol' world outside the home and family unit, since he spent more time in that world. I kinda laugh when I read western interpretations of this part of Muslim life, remembering some of my male Muslim friends coming into the office, all hang-dog, because their wives had said "Absolutely not!" to something they wanted to do. 

It has been my experience that the Muslim women I know and work with have been VERY strong women who do not typically play the meek role in their relationships.

Yep. That was my experience, as well. Even the male friends I mentioned coming in all hang-dog did so with a sly grin. They knew they were in the wrong and mama had brought down the hammah! 

[ArchietheDragon]

[Virgil Showlion]

Dec 29, 2015 12:22:05 GMT -5 swamp said:

Dec 29, 2015 12:18:06 GMT -5 Virgil Showlion said:

Best of luck to you.

Why the coffee drinking guy emoticon? To me its dismissive and condescending.

Why not use or    which are generally positive signs? 

Best of luck to you, Demin.