The Captain
Junior Associate
Hugs are good...
Joined: Jan 4, 2011 16:21:23 GMT -5
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Location: State of confusion
Favorite Drink: Whinnnne
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Post by The Captain on Oct 16, 2015 12:44:26 GMT -5
No worries, Wisconsin Beth - I get what you're saying and agree with it for the most part.
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happyhoix
Distinguished Associate
Joined: Oct 7, 2011 7:22:42 GMT -5
Posts: 20,898
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Post by happyhoix on Oct 16, 2015 14:58:34 GMT -5
And The Captain, I'm not really arguing. My take on this is that it's a pretty fucked up place and that everyone who attended had issues. and that everyone who was present during the beatings should be charged with whatever the law permits. This is NOT right. I agree, the main guy dies, his wife takes over as spiritual leader, and his 29 year old daughter is the pastor? Very unusual for fundamental churches, but I guess maybe not unusual for cults? Poor young men, beaten just because they wanted to leave - what a shitty life they had. Shitty life, shitty parents, shitty little cult. Hope this permanently breaks it up.
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Wisconsin Beth
Distinguished Associate
No, we don't walk away. But when we're holding on to something precious, we run.
Joined: Dec 20, 2010 11:59:36 GMT -5
Posts: 30,626
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Post by Wisconsin Beth on Oct 16, 2015 15:02:02 GMT -5
www.slate.com/blogs/the_slatest/2015/10/16/lucas_leonard_beaten_to_death_by_parents_victim_maybe_touching_some_of_the.htmlIn an ugly turn to what already seemed like the most twisted case imaginable, a lawyer for parents accused of helping beat their 19-year-old son to death said the victim and his 17-year-old younger brother were initially confronted because they were suspected of "touching some of the other children" in the secretive New Hartford, New York church that the family belongs to. (The victim's name was Lucas Leonard; his brother Christopher was also beaten but survived.) A local police spokesman said, however, that the suggestion that the siblings had themselves abused children had been investigated and is "completely unfounded," while prosecutors say the siblings were actually attacked during a Word of Life Christan Church meeting that was held because of suspicions that Lucas was planning to leave the congregation.
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Deleted
Joined: May 3, 2024 4:36:14 GMT -5
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Post by Deleted on Oct 16, 2015 18:40:30 GMT -5
I don't think anyone here is giving the husband a pass. But I do want to point out that his brainwashing would have been entirely different from the mother's... because he's the man of the family... and religious brainwashing of this type usually involves portraying the women as meek and the men as strong at all costs. Richard - read what I wrote again. I'm not even hinting that anyone is giving the husband a pass. I'm calling out the hypocrisy of giving a woman a pass because she supposedly is held hostage by church conditioning but stating the husband is absolutely responsible despite being supposedly subject to the same horrific unable-to-overcome conditioning. I may not be clear here, in no way am I suggesting anyone should get a buy. Also, if IF the whole brainwashing thing does even hold water, I doubt highly that a teaching is you should beat your children to death. I will go even further to say that IF that was a teaching, then it goes against the laws of society and we all know that ignorance of the law is no excuse. My apologies... the way it read it looked like you were saying he doesn't get a "buy" (I always thought it was "bye"... but that's neither here nor there) because he COULD overcome the brainwashing. I was commenting that he was brainwashed differently... so in his mind beating the sin out of the boy was "right and good", according to his religious brainwashing. For the record, I don't think anyone intended death. I think they intended torture until repentance.
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Deleted
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Post by Deleted on Oct 16, 2015 22:12:01 GMT -5
I think things like this are terrible. I hope she gets a jury who is compassionate but responsible. Punishment is not the only thing to be hoped for in the aftermaths of tragedies like this. To be clear I say she should be held responsible and should face punishment. I do not think we here know enough to say what that should be. I think it requires a lot more knowledge of the actual facts.
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weltschmerz
Community Leader
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Post by weltschmerz on Oct 17, 2015 0:01:38 GMT -5
I think things like this are terrible. I hope she gets a jury who is compassionate but responsible. Punishment is not the only thing to be hoped for in the aftermaths of tragedies like this. To be clear I say she should be held responsible and should face punishment. I do not think we here know enough to say what that should be. I think it requires a lot more knowledge of the actual facts. I hope she gets as much compassion as she showed towards her sons.
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Deleted
Joined: May 3, 2024 4:36:14 GMT -5
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Post by Deleted on Oct 17, 2015 8:31:42 GMT -5
I think things like this are terrible. I hope she gets a jury who is compassionate but responsible. Punishment is not the only thing to be hoped for in the aftermaths of tragedies like this. To be clear I say she should be held responsible and should face punishment. I do not think we here know enough to say what that should be. I think it requires a lot more knowledge of the actual facts. I hope she gets as much compassion as she showed towards her sons. The world is a worse place without compassion. The world is a better place with compassion.
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Tennesseer
Member Emeritus
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Post by Tennesseer on Oct 17, 2015 8:59:23 GMT -5
I hope she gets as much compassion as she showed towards her sons. The world is a worse place without compassion. The world is a better place with compassion. Compassion is shown to her with whatever prison sentence she receives if convicted. There are some countries that would put her to death for her crime if convicted.
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Deleted
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Post by Deleted on Oct 17, 2015 9:08:26 GMT -5
The world is a worse place without compassion. The world is a better place with compassion. Compassion is shown to her with whatever prison sentence she receives if convicted. There are some countries that would put her to death for her crime if convicted. Do you think compassion is shown with her prison sentence? I think it would be shown after her sentence and with her time in jail. Will she be given adequate mental and spiritual help? Will she be given a meaningful way to spend her time? Will she spend long periods of time in isolation or will her social needs be met? Do you think punishment can be fashioned such that a person benefits from it and should that be the hope for those punished? I think so.
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Tennesseer
Member Emeritus
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Post by Tennesseer on Oct 17, 2015 9:17:40 GMT -5
Compassion is shown to her with whatever prison sentence she receives if convicted. There are some countries that would put her to death for her crime if convicted. Do you think compassion is shown with her prison sentence? I think it would be shown after her sentence and with her time in jail. Will she be given adequate mental and spiritual help? Will she be given a meaningful way to spend her time? Will she spend long periods of time in isolation or will her social needs be met? Do you think punishment can be fashioned such that a person benefits from it and should that be the hope for those punished? I think so. All of what you would like to see (for this woman) might depend on where she serves her sentence. I cannot say I am one hundred percent sure of it, but religious and educational opportunities are offered in prisons. It would be up to the woman (in this cade) to take advantage of them. Isolation and social contact is up to the individual and their behavior in prison. This applies to all people sent to prison. As for meaningful work, what would you define as meaningful work.
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Deleted
Joined: May 3, 2024 4:36:14 GMT -5
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Post by Deleted on Oct 17, 2015 17:52:21 GMT -5
I think compassion would include deprogramming her.
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