gang initiation kill someone who flashes lights

[billisonboard]

Oct 16, 2015 18:57:11 GMT -5 @richardintn said:

...first bolded:
And if the seventeen year old had handed over his paperwork as requested... he wouldn't have ended up dead. The cop calmly and professionally asked him several times to do the right thing, before it got all out of hand.

...

"(A)ll out of hand" is a very interesting descriptor for a cop shooting a seventeen year old seven times.

[fishy999]

You are correct on that- when dealing with asshole cops, it is yes sir, no sir until the court date- but when the crime is maybe worthy of a ticket at best- kind of hard to justify yanking someone out of the car and escalating the situation because they are being difficult.  Take this cop:




That's how a calm professional deals with a situation.  Gave him a warning for failure to produce insurance after all that 

[zibazinski]

The LAST thing I'd do to someone who has a gun is act like an asshole. I'm not going to win.

[Deleted]

Oct 16, 2015 18:54:20 GMT -5 @richardintn said:

Oct 16, 2015 8:44:42 GMT -5 @hickle said:

cops serve the public not the public serve the cops, if they want uncontested deference, I say ---- them.

Yes the cops serve the public. And the public should be grateful and make the job that they do easier... not harder.

So... as I said... if more people made the right choices when confronted by cops, bad interactions might be rarer still.

And if cops held their own to a professional standard bad interaction would definitely be rarer.

[Deleted]

Oct 16, 2015 19:52:10 GMT -5 billisonboard said:

Oct 16, 2015 18:57:11 GMT -5 @richardintn said:

...first bolded:
And if the seventeen year old had handed over his paperwork as requested... he wouldn't have ended up dead. The cop calmly and professionally asked him several times to do the right thing, before it got all out of hand.

...

"(A)ll out of hand" is a very interesting descriptor for a cop shooting a seventeen year old seven times.

The was the "end result"... the "all out of hand" was everything between the seventeen being asked for his ID and him being shot.

[Deleted]

Oct 16, 2015 20:29:41 GMT -5 @hickle said:

Oct 16, 2015 18:54:20 GMT -5 @richardintn said:

Yes the cops serve the public. And the public should be grateful and make the job that they do easier... not harder.

So... as I said... if more people made the right choices when confronted by cops, bad interactions might be rarer still.

And if cops held their own to a professional standard bad interaction would definitely be rarer.

No argument.

But, as I said... if more people made the right choices when confronted by cops, bad interactions might be rarer still ("rarer still" being the operative words... meaning they would be even more rare than if the cops alone were the only ones that acted properly).

[fishy999]

Oct 16, 2015 20:06:59 GMT -5 zibazinski said:

The LAST thing I'd do to someone who has a gun is act like an asshole. I'm not going to win.

Of course not- and they know it.  Some of them (a small number) are just waiting for a chance to beat down anyone that dares to give them lip- and since they cannot lose that makes them worse than the average bully- and dangerous.  

What you are saying of course is to never question authority or stand up for your rights- go ahead and search my privates for drugs on the side of the highway, for example.  The kid thought he was in the right- and he kind of was- but he was no real threat sitting in the car with his phone.   No way in a civilized country this should end up how it did.  Doesn't really happen in other countries- I bet any UK cop could have handled this in a boring and routine way without violence.  Says quite a lot about this screwed up country.

[Deleted]

Oct 16, 2015 20:48:34 GMT -5 @richardintn said:

Oct 16, 2015 20:29:41 GMT -5 @hickle said:

And if cops held their own to a professional standard bad interaction would definitely be rarer.

No argument.

But, as I said... if more people made the right choices when confronted by cops, bad interactions might be rarer still ("rarer still" being the operative words... meaning they would be even more rare than if the cops alone were the only ones that acted properly).

So we agree, if more people acted more smarter fewer problems would arise. 

[billisonboard]

Deven Guilford

[Deleted]

Oct 16, 2015 20:52:57 GMT -5 @hickle said:

Oct 16, 2015 20:48:34 GMT -5 @richardintn said:

No argument.

But, as I said... if more people made the right choices when confronted by cops, bad interactions might be rarer still ("rarer still" being the operative words... meaning they would be even more rare than if the cops alone were the only ones that acted properly).

So we agree, if more people acted more smarter fewer problems would arise. 

Exactly.

(well... except for the abuse that sentence did to my sense of grammar propriety...)

[billisonboard]

Jonathan Frost

[Deleted]

Oct 16, 2015 20:57:11 GMT -5 billisonboard said:

Deven Guilford

Oct 16, 2015 21:02:52 GMT -5 billisonboard said:

Jonathan Frost

Yes. Those are their names, for what happened in THIS particular interaction... your point?

[billisonboard]

Oct 16, 2015 21:05:04 GMT -5 @richardintn said:

Oct 16, 2015 20:57:11 GMT -5 billisonboard said:

Deven Guilford

Oct 16, 2015 21:02:52 GMT -5 billisonboard said:

Jonathan Frost

Yes. Those are their names, for what happened in THIS particular interaction... your point?

It felt that a specific dead seventeen year old boy and a specific 8 year police sergeant were being lost in generic discussion.

[zibazinski]

When someone has a gun, like it or not, they HAVE authority over you. Mouthing off to a policeman bcuz you THINK he has to "take it" can be as hazardous to your life as mouthing off to an armed criminal. I hope most people are aware of that. Someone "taught" that young man, and he wasn't a boy btw, to act like an ass to a cop, and the kid paid the price. I know there are bad cops. My son got stopped for no good reason once. I had taught him to have overhead light on, at night, have window down and his hands on the wheel as well as anyone else in the car. He had his other passenger put his hands on the dashboard. He also called me first and I was already in my car about 5 minutes away. Policeman asked him did he know why he was stopped? DS said no. Bcuz when he left 7-11 he didn't have his lights on. When DS entered the deserted unlit dark road he realized it and had already turned them on. DS explained that. Cop asked about the overhead light and hands thing. DS said his mom told him to do that if ever stopped and Mom's eta was in about 1 minute. Cop never asked for dl, insurance proof, or registration at any time. DS said after hearing I was coming cop got in car and left. DS waited for me. He was too scared to look at name on badge or anything else. Do I think it could have gotten ugly? Yes, I do. It was a bad stop imo but perfectly within the law. It was apparent why the lights were off and they were back on before cop put his lights on. He had decided two teenage boys in a car were trouble. He couldn't have picked two that were less trouble. But it still could have gone bad. It didn't.

[OldCoyote]

Oct 17, 2015 7:01:48 GMT -5 zibazinski said:

When someone has a gun, like it or not, they HAVE authority over you. Mouthing off to a policeman bcuz you THINK he has to "take it" can be as hazardous to your life as mouthing off to an armed criminal. I hope most people are aware of that. Someone "taught" that young man, and he wasn't a boy btw, to act like an ass to a cop, and the kid paid the price. I know there are bad cops. My son got stopped for no good reason once. I had taught him to have overhead light on, at night, have window down and his hands on the wheel as well as anyone else in the car. He had his other passenger put his hands on the dashboard. He also called me first and I was already in my car about 5 minutes away. Policeman asked him did he know why he was stopped? DS said no. Bcuz when he left 7-11 he didn't have his lights on. When DS entered the deserted unlit dark road he realized it and had already turned them on. DS explained that. Cop asked about the overhead light and hands thing. DS said his mom told him to do that if ever stopped and Mom's eta was in about 1 minute. Cop never asked for dl, insurance proof, or registration at any time. DS said after hearing I was coming cop got in car and left. DS waited for me. He was too scared to look at name on badge or anything else. Do I think it could have gotten ugly? Yes, I do. It was a bad stop imo but perfectly within the law. It was apparent why the lights were off and they were back on before cop put his lights on. He had decided two teenage boys in a car were trouble. He couldn't have picked two that were less trouble. But it still could have gone bad. It didn't.

In my youth, I had considered applying to be a State trooper.  Today on the other hand,  when I see a police officer, I see possible conflict.

If I were to get stopped today,  I would keep both hand on the wheel, if I was reaching for my billfold or to the glove box ,  I would tell the officer what I was going to do first. 

Years ago A traffic stop would have went,  (me) Good morning, (officer)  Good morning, I pulled you over because the brake light is out, licence and registration please. (me) sorry about that, I didn't know.

here is my licence,  (Officer after checking the info,)  get that brake light fixed, have a good day.  Even if there was a disagreement, I would not have felt threatened.

Today is different, case in point, a couple years ago, I was rear ended, police were called, one officer was writing a ticket to the young woman involved.

It must have been a slow day, because a half dozen officer showed up.  most were joking and laughing,  except one young motor cycle officer,  during the time that I watched him the was never a smile,

his head was on a constant swivel.  This officer was just looking for trouble,  I wish that I had picked up his name.  I have no doubt that I will be reading about him later,  in a situation like this thread was

started over.

For those of you that say it couldn't happen to me, Check out James Peters.

www.azcentral.com/community/scottsdale/articles/20120215shooting-seventh-scottsdale-police-officer.html 

Left Scottsdale on a medical retirement,  I bet he is still carrying a gun.


itsgoingdown.org/scottsdale-cop-who-killed-six-is-now-training-cops-to-kill/ 

This should make all of you feel really good, He is still out there,  training more to be just like him.