Tennesseer
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Post by Tennesseer on Oct 3, 2015 23:20:02 GMT -5
'Despite some reports to the contrary, McGowan said Harper-Mercer didn't appear to target Christians in particular. "He didn't really, honestly," McGowan said in a quiet voice while standing on the doorstep of his house in Roseburg, Oregon, on Saturday morning. McGowan’s right arm was wrapped up after surgery from a gunshot wound. "Obviously he was asking what religion, but he wasn't really just targeting. He was kind of just saying, 'Oh, since you have a God, you'll be joining him in a little bit," McGowan told The News. "It wasn't really like, 'I'm targeting you and I'm going to kill you,'" he said. Oregon shooter's suicide after rampage was planned: survivor
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weltschmerz
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Post by weltschmerz on Oct 4, 2015 1:01:13 GMT -5
It's all over my FB that the shooter is Muslim ? You shouldn't get your news from Facebook.
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mmhmm
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Post by mmhmm on Oct 4, 2015 1:02:59 GMT -5
Anyway the new story is that it's a guy called Chris Mercer. Supposedly his Dad is apologizing. I'm sure that makes a world of difference to his victims families. That's not a new story, hon. I posted his name and a picture of him on Oct 1 (first page of this thread). There is no evidence he's Muslim. Hell, there are even articles out there saying ISIS is claiming responsibility for this. That comes from a phony account on Twitter claiming to be an ISIS account. It ain't. As usual, the residual loonies who wander among us are up to their tricks. We won't have anything approaching facts on this for awhile. Meanwhile, the mental midgets play.
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weltschmerz
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Post by weltschmerz on Oct 4, 2015 2:30:07 GMT -5
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zibazinski
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Post by zibazinski on Oct 4, 2015 10:32:04 GMT -5
Right.
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Deleted
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Post by Deleted on Oct 4, 2015 11:01:32 GMT -5
More people were killed by knives in America last year then by rifles. By a wide margin, something like 5 to 1.
Someone should check this next fact, but I believe vending machines killed 20% of the number of those killed by rifles.
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weltschmerz
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Post by weltschmerz on Oct 4, 2015 11:17:52 GMT -5
More people were killed by knives in America last year then by rifles. By a wide margin, something like 5 to 1. Someone should check this next fact, but I believe vending machines killed 20% of the number of those killed by rifles. 37 people were killed by vending machines from 1978 to 1995.
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billisonboard
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Post by billisonboard on Oct 4, 2015 11:24:53 GMT -5
More people were killed by knives in America last year then by rifles. By a wide margin, something like 5 to 1. ... Not correct. It was .6483 to 1.
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tallguy
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Post by tallguy on Oct 4, 2015 11:37:09 GMT -5
More people were killed by knives in America last year then by rifles. By a wide margin, something like 5 to 1. Someone should check this next fact, but I believe vending machines killed 20% of the number of those killed by rifles. 37 people were killed by vending machines from 1978 to 1995.
And I have it on very good authority that every single one of those vending machines was acting in self-defense.
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mmhmm
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It's a great pity the right of free speech isn't based on the obligation to say something sensible.
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Post by mmhmm on Oct 4, 2015 11:41:49 GMT -5
I heard on the radio that he appeared to be targeting Christians. So I think the far right will be proposing a new "Arm the Christians" movement, where we hand pistols out in Sunday School classes and gather together for target shooting behind the Church following Communion. After all, the elementary school shootings resulted in an "Arm all the Teachers" approach. The connection to religion thing has been bandied about pretty freely by our illustrious media, but there are other views being expressed, as well. If you read what's known about this guy from his online presence, he was just your garden-variety nut. We won't know his reason for awhile, is my guess - if we ever know them. According to one guy who was there, he didn't care what the answer was to his religious affiliation question. He shot random people regardless of their answer.
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Tennesseer
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Post by Tennesseer on Oct 4, 2015 11:54:37 GMT -5
More people were killed by knives in America last year then by rifles. By a wide margin, something like 5 to 1. Someone should check this next fact, but I believe vending machines killed 20% of the number of those killed by rifles. And what is the margin of people killed by knives versus pistols/handguns?
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djAdvocate
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Post by djAdvocate on Oct 4, 2015 12:01:15 GMT -5
Because when you're trying to flood the country with them and the push back is out of fear that they're going to kill us, you try to keep a lid on the fact that he was one. Trying to cover it up is wrong. who is this "you're" of whom you speak?
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djAdvocate
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Post by djAdvocate on Oct 4, 2015 12:05:27 GMT -5
More people were killed by knives in America last year then by rifles. By a wide margin, something like 5 to 1. Someone should check this next fact, but I believe vending machines killed 20% of the number of those killed by rifles. i'm concerned about where you are getting your facts.
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chiver78
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Post by chiver78 on Oct 4, 2015 13:20:31 GMT -5
One of the survivors from the room is saying it wasn't exactly like that. thanks. I hadn't heard that. but I haven't been paying much attention to the news this weekend. sent from my electronic distraction
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Tennesseer
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Post by Tennesseer on Oct 4, 2015 16:01:02 GMT -5
More people were killed by knives in America last year then by rifles. By a wide margin, something like 5 to 1. Someone should check this next fact, but I believe vending machines killed 20% of the number of those killed by rifles. i'm concerned about where you are getting your facts. Not sure why @hickle selected only to highlight the wide margin between knives and rifles when rifles are not the primary weapon of choice when it comes to murder. Disingenuous of him though to select rifles instead of handguns. This is possibly the website where Hickle got his facts. There may be other websites with the same article title but I am not going to look any further. I will am posting the png image and then the linked source. The Federalist: Knives Kill More People Each Year Than Rifles: Time For Knife Control?
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Deleted
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Post by Deleted on Oct 4, 2015 17:07:32 GMT -5
i'm concerned about where you are getting your facts. Not sure why @hickle selected only to highlight the wide margin between knives and rifles when rifles are not the primary weapon of choice when it comes to murder. Disingenuous of him though to select rifles instead of handguns. This is possibly the website where Hickle got his facts. There may be other websites with the same article title but I am not going to look any further. I will am posting the png image and then the linked source. The Federalist: Knives Kill More People Each Year Than Rifles: Time For Knife Control?I posted what I thought was an interesting fact. There is nothing disingenuous about that. Would you say that people who want to limit assault rifles are being disingenuous about the threat they pose?
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Tennesseer
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Post by Tennesseer on Oct 4, 2015 17:09:29 GMT -5
Not sure why @hickle selected only to highlight the wide margin between knives and rifles when rifles are not the primary weapon of choice when it comes to murder. Disingenuous of him though to select rifles instead of handguns. This is possibly the website where Hickle got his facts. There may be other websites with the same article title but I am not going to look any further. I will am posting the png image and then the linked source. The Federalist: Knives Kill More People Each Year Than Rifles: Time For Knife Control?I posted what I thought was an interesting fact. There is nothing disingenuous about that. Would you say that people who want to limit assault rifles are being disingenuous about the threat they pose? All weapons that cut or bore into people are a threat. Why didn't you compare handguns to knives? What was your reason?
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Deleted
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Post by Deleted on Oct 4, 2015 17:16:05 GMT -5
I posted what I thought was an interesting fact. There is nothing disingenuous about that. Would you say that people who want to limit assault rifles are being disingenuous about the threat they pose? All weapons that cut or bore into people are a threat. Why didn't you compare handguns to knives? What was your reason? I think it is interesting. I just recently learned it and was surprised by it. With all the people who want to outlaw so called assault rifles I thought they caused more death then they do. I have several guns, none of them are threats. Your car, I assume is not a threat. It is a possible deadly weapon. Do you think it more profitable to concentrate on the bigger statistical deadly threats over the less statistically deadly threats? Generally speaking if I see you posed a question to me, I try to answer it directly.
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Tennesseer
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Post by Tennesseer on Oct 4, 2015 18:01:05 GMT -5
All weapons that cut or bore into people are a threat. Why didn't you compare handguns to knives? What was your reason? I think it is interesting. I just recently learned it and was surprised by it. With all the people who want to outlaw so called assault rifles I thought they caused more death then they do. I have several guns, none of them are threats. Your car, I assume is not a threat. It is a possible deadly weapon. Do you think it more profitable to concentrate on the bigger statistical deadly threats over the less statistically deadly threats? Generally speaking if I see you posed a question to me, I try to answer it directly. How do you know your guns are not a threat? They could be a threat from/to you or anyone else who might get their hands on them tomorrow, next week, next year. I don't know if The Federalist is where you got your fact (rifles versus knives), I have no reason to doubt their facts. But The Federalist does not define 'Rifle' and imagine there are different types. According to this Blaze article (I cannot blieve I am quoting them), civilians are able to purchase true assault rifles (as defined in the Blaze article: "Weapons capable of fully automatic fire, including assault rifles, have been regulated heavily in the United States since the National Firearms Act of 1934.[23] Taking possession of such weapons requires paying a $200 federal transfer tax and submitting to an FBI background checked, including ten-print fingerprints.[24] The Blaze ArticleI am not sure why civilian would need an assault rifle. The odds of a zombie or Chinese army invasion are pretty slim. If a civilian wants to practice shooting a true assault rifle, let him/her use it at a shooting range and keep it locked and stored there. Cars. Cars are not designed and built to kill animals during a hunt nor murder people. They are built to move people. End of discussion about cars. Big or small, all threats should be reviewed.
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Tennesseer
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Post by Tennesseer on Oct 4, 2015 18:08:43 GMT -5
One other thing, Hickle. I have no desire to stop anyone legally able to purchase and own guns and rifles. I just want these single and mass shootings of the innocent to end. Enough is enough. And I don't believe arming everyone to the teeth where people learn, work or play is the answer. That is all I want.
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Post by The Walk of the Penguin Mich on Oct 4, 2015 18:11:28 GMT -5
One of the survivors from the room is saying it wasn't exactly like that. thanks. I hadn't heard that. but I haven't been paying much attention to the news this weekend. sent from my electronic distraction There was an interesting interview this morning on CNN from one of the 2 women who walked out of the classroom that the shooter went on a rampage in. She said that this guy was intent on shooting, and shot regardless of the answer. One of the more telling things was that he went into the classroom and a woman in the class was in a wheelchair with her service animal. The shooter told her to get down onto the floor with the others, then told her to get back into her wheelchair. He shot her as she was trying to get back into her chair. She also said that he shot everyone, regardless of the answer they gave. She felt like the only reason why she walked out of there was that she had so much blood on her that he thought she was dead, when she was only playing dead. She also mentioned that he also seemed rather giddy about all of this, like this was his intent and no amount of discussion was going to talk him out of anything. The only way he was going to stop was if he was physically incapable of shooting anyone further. It was a rather compelling interview. She's going to have some tremendous survivor guilt and I really hope that they have some excellent counselling facilities there, as she's really going to need help getting past the nightmare she lived through.
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Deleted
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Post by Deleted on Oct 4, 2015 18:15:48 GMT -5
You cannot buy a new fully automatic rifle in the United States unless you are police or something similar. The only ones you can buy are those that were around before the law against the was made. They are very expensive to buy and to shoot. There are pistols designed to do IDPA competitions. They are not designed for hunting or shooting people. They are designed for sport. Many pistols I am sure are designed for guys like me who like to shoot. I will never shoot a person or hunt with a pistol. If I am part of the market the gun was designed for then you are wrong on why it was designed.
I do not understand why the cause of death would make a difference. If I misuse, or properly use, my gun and kill someone, how is that different from me misusing my car and killing someone?
Cell phones are responsible for probably thousands of deaths each year. Those deaths are no less tragic to the families then a gun death.
I got the fact on rifle deaths vs knife deaths on some blurb and did a quick google verify. I got the fact ( i guess wrong) on vending machine deaths from a co-worker whose son told him and did a quick search and saw ~50 deaths from vending machines. I was going off memory and unsure of that and posted that concern.
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Deleted
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Post by Deleted on Oct 4, 2015 18:22:59 GMT -5
One other thing, Hickle. I have no desire to stop anyone legally able to purchase and own guns and rifles. I just want these single and mass shootings of the innocent to end. Enough is enough. And I don't believe arming everyone to the teeth where people learn, work or play is the answer. That is all I want. Many of those who do mass shootings did legally own and buy the guns. If you want the shootings to end, I would suggest you focus on ideas that can work and not empty rhetoric. (Not yours, but politician's). When someone shows up to a school or workplace with a gun and intent on violence would you like there to be someone else there with a gun other then a murderer? Having police everywhere is not an option unless you want to give up free society. We live in a big world with some bad people who do bad things. You are not going to get what you want.
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tallguy
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Post by tallguy on Oct 4, 2015 19:10:44 GMT -5
All weapons that cut or bore into people are a threat. Why didn't you compare handguns to knives? What was your reason? I think it is interesting. I just recently learned it and was surprised by it. With all the people who want to outlaw so called assault rifles I thought they caused more death then they do. I have several guns, none of them are threats. Your car, I assume is not a threat. It is a possible deadly weapon. Do you think it more profitable to concentrate on the bigger statistical deadly threats over the less statistically deadly threats?
Generally speaking if I see you posed a question to me, I try to answer it directly. That is not a fair statistical comparison, however. If there are 100,000 assault rifles that are used to cause 100 homicides (numbers are only for example, I have no idea what they really are) and 150,000,000 handguns responsible for 6000 homicides, which is more of a danger? There would be one death for every 1000 assault rifles and one death for every 25,000 handguns. Statistically, the AR would be 25 times more deadly than the handgun, not even taking into account the likelihood of many more victims per incident. Straight numbers do not tell any legitimate story.
(Again, the numbers are illustrative only and I don't even pretend that they are accurate.)
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tallguy
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Post by tallguy on Oct 4, 2015 19:27:48 GMT -5
You cannot buy a new fully automatic rifle in the United States unless you are police or something similar. The only ones you can buy are those that were around before the law against the was made. They are very expensive to buy and to shoot. There are pistols designed to do IDPA competitions. They are not designed for hunting or shooting people. They are designed for sport. Many pistols I am sure are designed for guys like me who like to shoot. I will never shoot a person or hunt with a pistol. If I am part of the market the gun was designed for then you are wrong on why it was designed. I do not understand why the cause of death would make a difference. If I misuse, or properly use, my gun and kill someone, how is that different from me misusing my car and killing someone?
Cell phones are responsible for probably thousands of deaths each year. Those deaths are no less tragic to the families then a gun death.
I got the fact on rifle deaths vs knife deaths on some blurb and did a quick google verify. I got the fact ( i guess wrong) on vending machine deaths from a co-worker whose son told him and did a quick search and saw ~50 deaths from vending machines. I was going off memory and unsure of that and posted that concern. Purpose and intent would come into play. The purpose of a car is for transportation. It is only misuse of a car that would ever result in death. The purpose of a cell phone is communication. Death can basically only result from the individual's own misuse of the phone. The purpose of most knives is not to kill. They can certainly be used that way, but that is not necessarily what they were designed for. The purpose of at least the vast majority of guns IS to kill...something.
It is correct that the cause of death does not matter in being any more or less dead. It may very well matter in making sense of the death. We are able to understand and come to grips with tragic accidents much better than we can senseless violence. We accept that tragic accidents can happen to anyone, regardless of fault. Senseless violence shakes one's faith in who we are as a people, and how we live.
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tallguy
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Post by tallguy on Oct 4, 2015 19:33:56 GMT -5
link
Too bad he didn't shoot his mom first like the other idiot did....
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happyhoix
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Post by happyhoix on Oct 5, 2015 6:53:49 GMT -5
I heard on the radio that he appeared to be targeting Christians. So I think the far right will be proposing a new "Arm the Christians" movement, where we hand pistols out in Sunday School classes and gather together for target shooting behind the Church following Communion. After all, the elementary school shootings resulted in an "Arm all the Teachers" approach. The connection to religion thing has been bandied about pretty freely by our illustrious media, but there are other views being expressed, as well. If you read what's known about this guy from his online presence, he was just your garden-variety nut. We won't know his reason for awhile, is my guess - if we ever know them. According to one guy who was there, he didn't care what the answer was to his religious affiliation question. He shot random people regardless of their answer. Yes I saw later that he was apparently randomly killing people regardless of what they said. I saw that the murderer let one young man go and told him that 'everything about him (the murderer) and why he was doing what he did was contained on a thumb drive in a backpack he brought with him - this young man told the cops and they have the thumb drive now, but I haven't heard that any of it was released to the media yet. In a way, I don't really want to know his motive. I don't want to know anything about him. I purposely haven't learned his name, he is just the 'idiot from Oregon.' Apparently there is some evidence that people that do this kind of thing believe that they will become folk heroes because of all the attention these kinds of attacks generate. I guess they mistake being famous for being infamous. Maybe we should just call these kinds of people 'offender x' and do a media black out on them, and only focus on the victims.
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Deleted
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Post by Deleted on Oct 5, 2015 8:19:13 GMT -5
You cannot buy a new fully automatic rifle in the United States unless you are police or something similar. The only ones you can buy are those that were around before the law against the was made. They are very expensive to buy and to shoot. There are pistols designed to do IDPA competitions. They are not designed for hunting or shooting people. They are designed for sport. Many pistols I am sure are designed for guys like me who like to shoot. I will never shoot a person or hunt with a pistol. If I am part of the market the gun was designed for then you are wrong on why it was designed. I do not understand why the cause of death would make a difference. If I misuse, or properly use, my gun and kill someone, how is that different from me misusing my car and killing someone?
Cell phones are responsible for probably thousands of deaths each year. Those deaths are no less tragic to the families then a gun death.
I got the fact on rifle deaths vs knife deaths on some blurb and did a quick google verify. I got the fact ( i guess wrong) on vending machine deaths from a co-worker whose son told him and did a quick search and saw ~50 deaths from vending machines. I was going off memory and unsure of that and posted that concern. Purpose and intent would come into play. The purpose of a car is for transportation. It is only misuse of a car that would ever result in death. The purpose of a cell phone is communication. Death can basically only result from the individual's own misuse of the phone. The purpose of most knives is not to kill. They can certainly be used that way, but that is not necessarily what they were designed for. The purpose of at least the vast majority of guns IS to kill...something.
It is correct that the cause of death does not matter in being any more or less dead. It may very well matter in making sense of the death. We are able to understand and come to grips with tragic accidents much better than we can senseless violence. We accept that tragic accidents can happen to anyone, regardless of fault. Senseless violence shakes one's faith in who we are as a people, and how we live.
Is it your belief that the vast majority of guns fail at what they were designed for? Most pistols are never used to kill anything. I think you are most likely wrong when you say that pistols were designed to kill. I think they were designed for many reasons. Some for sport, some for security, some for the coolness factor, some to mask insecurity, etc. I do not think very many people purchase a pistol with the idea that it will be used to kill. If people really thought they would be using their gun in a life and death situation, wouldn't they get more training? I do not know if you have guns or not, but if the goal was to shoot paper targets for fun, how much training would you want? IF the goal was to kill someone, how much training would you want? I do not think most guns are made for killing people if you are talking about the American civilian market. Certainly they can be used to kill just as a car can be.
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OldCoyote
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Post by OldCoyote on Oct 5, 2015 8:22:43 GMT -5
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thyme4change
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Post by thyme4change on Oct 5, 2015 8:24:16 GMT -5
It is funny that the media has made a stand to keep him as 'out of the press' as possible, and that may have made things worse. I have heard so much shit about this guy it is insane. Because there isn't a prominent source saying exactly what the deal is, people are making up stuff left and right to suit their political agenda and continue to hate whoever they already hate.
Are we sure it was a man? Those bitches be crazy, maybe it was a woman on her period.
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