Clock assumed to be bomb in Texas HS

[djAdvocate]

Sept 19, 2015 7:34:28 GMT -5 Politically_Incorrect12 said:

Sept 19, 2015 4:36:11 GMT -5 djAdvocate said:

wrong thinking leads to wrong conclusions.  if you are looking for terrorists, you can find them everywhere.

 Kind of like people who see dicrimination, sexism, socialism, communism, and a move toward a theocracy all the time I supose. 

i agree 100%.  we need to chill out and stop seeing enemies everywhere all the time.  it is destroying our nation.

we can start by ignoring pundits like Limbaugh and Coulter.

[NastyWoman]

Sept 19, 2015 15:27:36 GMT -5 Sum Dum Gai said:

"who cares if a 10 year old kid has a bomb trigger? it is useless without explosives."

 They're everywhere from electronic toddler pianos to RC cars. 

Anyone else think Dirty Harry ?

[AgeOfEnlightenmentSCP]

[Deleted]

this kid was arrested and suspended for a creative writing assignment where he wrote about buying a gun to kill his neighbor's pet dinosaur.

Think of all the great literature that has violence in it. I don't know why people don't just quit these schools and go to another.  If some business treated me so ignorantly I and many others would go elsewhere and they could go out of business because no one appreciates that kind of stupidity.  JK, a government school  isn't going to go out of business for outrageous acts like this.

[Virgil Showlion]

Sept 19, 2015 2:12:33 GMT -5 Shooby said:

The school absolutely did the right thing.

They should have evacuated the school and taken all the usual precautions if they genuinely suspected the device could be a bomb.

Unlike the armchair bomb squaddies in this thread, I have no qualms with the device being treated as a threat. But if it's a threat, treat it seriously.

[Deleted]

this guy was arrested because he had a fishing tackle box in his car and the box had a knife in it.  He was charged with a felony.  I see no way to describe this other then people actively wanting to make someone's life worse. 

[Deleted]

Sept 20, 2015 9:02:33 GMT -5 Virgil Showlion said:

Sept 19, 2015 2:12:33 GMT -5 Shooby said:

The school absolutely did the right thing.

They should have evacuated the school and taken all the usual precautions if they genuinely suspected the device could be a bomb.

Unlike the armchair bomb squaddies in this thread, I have no qualms with the device being treated as a threat. But if it's a threat, treat it seriously.

the problem is the cops knew it wasn't a threat from the very start.  It is willful paranoia.  You should have qualms with the device being treated as a threat by people who knew it wasnt a threat.

[Virgil Showlion]

Sept 20, 2015 7:44:56 GMT -5 AgeOfEnlightenmentSCP said:

I'm pretty sure that's not what the kid brought in.


Come on, Paul. The police severely overreacted because of the boy's ethnicity. All the lipstick in the world isn't going to make that pig beautiful.

[b2r]

 The police overreacted. Yet the device did look like something Ethan Hunt would lob out of a helicopter at the last minute in “Mission: Impossible.” As National Review’s Charles Cooke pointed out on Twitter, the scary-looking tangle of wires “looks a lot more like a bomb than a pop tart looks like a gun.”

Josh Welch, a white Maryland kid with ADHD who was 7 years old when he was kicked out of school for chewing a Pop-Tart into the shape of a pistol and pretending to shoot other students with it, must be puzzled.

Where’s his White House invitation? Where’s his chance to start networking at Facebook? His parents were forced to hire a lawyer and spent a year and a half just trying to get the suspension erased from the kid’s record. They were repeatedly refused.


nypost.com/2015/09/19/how-ahmeds-clock-became-a-false-convenient-tale-of-racism/

[Virgil Showlion]

Sept 20, 2015 9:12:20 GMT -5 @hickle said:

Sept 20, 2015 9:02:33 GMT -5 Virgil Showlion said:

They should have evacuated the school and taken all the usual precautions if they genuinely suspected the device could be a bomb.

Unlike the armchair bomb squaddies in this thread, I have no qualms with the device being treated as a threat. But if it's a threat, treat it seriously.

the problem is the cops knew it wasn't a threat from the very start.  It is willful paranoia.  You should have qualms with the device being treated as a threat by people who knew it wasnt a threat.

Those are precisely the qualms I'm expressing here.

"But if it's a threat, treat it seriously."  They didn't treat it seriously, ergo they didn't consider it a genuine threat. Ergo I agree with you the arrest, which would have been excessive even if they had considered the device a genuine threat, was motivated by the boy's ethnicity (possibly also his history, or his father's political views).

At the same time, posters' "It clearly wasn't a bomb." comments can go straight into the trash bin where they belong. Especially those of posters prone to violent, near-psychotic rants about the lengths they'd go to protect their families (who know who they are), or posters who argued in favour of safety over convenience when we debated police removing trash cans from stadiums post- Boston Marathon (who also know who they are).

[Virgil Showlion]

Sept 20, 2015 9:28:50 GMT -5 b2r said:

 The police overreacted. Yet the device did look like something Ethan Hunt would lob out of a helicopter at the last minute in “Mission: Impossible.” As National Review’s Charles Cooke pointed out on Twitter, the scary-looking tangle of wires “looks a lot more like a bomb than a pop tart looks like a gun.”

Josh Welch, a white Maryland kid with ADHD who was 7 years old when he was kicked out of school for chewing a Pop-Tart into the shape of a pistol and pretending to shoot other students with it, must be puzzled.

Where’s his White House invitation? Where’s his chance to start networking at Facebook? His parents were forced to hire a lawyer and spent a year and a half just trying to get the suspension erased from the kid’s record. They were repeatedly refused.


nypost.com/2015/09/19/how-ahmeds-clock-became-a-false-convenient-tale-of-racism/

Two wrongs don't make a right.

[Deleted]

Sept 20, 2015 9:29:44 GMT -5 Virgil Showlion said:

Sept 20, 2015 9:12:20 GMT -5 @hickle said:

the problem is the cops knew it wasn't a threat from the very start.  It is willful paranoia.  You should have qualms with the device being treated as a threat by people who knew it wasnt a threat.

Those are precisely the qualms I'm expressing here.

"But if it's a threat, treat it seriously."  They didn't treat it seriously, ergo they didn't consider it a genuine threat. Ergo I agree with you the arrest, which would have been excessive even if they had considered the device a genuine threat, was motivated by the boy's ethnicity (possibly also his history, or his father's political views).

At the same time, posters' "It clearly wasn't a bomb." comments can go straight into the trash bin where they belong. Especially those of posters prone to violent, near-psychotic rants about the lengths they'd go to protect their families (who know who they are), or posters who argued in favour of safety over convenience when we debated police removing trash cans from stadiums post- Boston Marathon (who also know who they are).

I have posted examples of cops arresting students for fishing tackle, for chewing a pop tart into the shape of a gun and for writing of buying a gun to shoot a dinosaur.  Those students were white.  This kind of stupidity happens to white, brown and black; to boys and girls; to children of the wealthy and to children of the poor.  It happens across the board.  It is a symptom of America's stupidity.   I read the term "willful paranoia" and it fits  the actions. I think using power to show you can is purposeful.  It is stupid beyond any reasoning except power plays.  I could easily link dozens of such stupidity if I wanted to take the time.

[Deleted]

Sept 20, 2015 9:31:12 GMT -5 Virgil Showlion said:

Sept 20, 2015 9:28:50 GMT -5 b2r said:

Two wrongs don't make a right.

Hundreds of wrongs make a case for demanding accountability of schools and police.  These police and principals  should be fired and blackballed from positions of authority.

[Deleted]

I think it's hysterical that the set who are outraged that kids might be stopped from bringing toy guns to school, are so pro THIS kid bing turned in for s circuit board and a box.

And yes, if they actually thought it was a bomb... They should have treated it like one. 

And IF Paul's conspiracy theory was true (which I'm not advocating)... The only outcome I can see is that the authorities acted exactly as prejudicially and stupidly as they were predicted to do...

[Virgil Showlion]

Sept 20, 2015 9:43:58 GMT -5 oped said:

I think it's hysterical that the set who are outraged that kids might be stopped from bringing toy guns to school, are so pro THIS kid bing turned in for s circuit board and a box.

In fairness to "the set", the only disciplinary incidents that had them up in arms were for a student making a "gun" with his fingers, and a student chewing a pop tart into the shape of a "gun".

[Deleted]

Sept 20, 2015 9:19:13 GMT -5 Virgil Showlion said:

Sept 20, 2015 7:44:56 GMT -5 AgeOfEnlightenmentSCP said:

I'm pretty sure that's not what the kid brought in.


Come on, Paul. The police severely overreacted because of the boy's ethnicity. All the lipstick in the world isn't going to make that pig beautiful.

I do not understand this response at all.  There are literally hundreds of examples of police overreacting to white kids.  I am sure there is lots of prejudice against brown kids, but this was just stupidity based on stupidity and no accountability.

[Politically_Incorrect12]

Sept 20, 2015 2:58:00 GMT -5 djAdvocate said:

Sept 19, 2015 7:34:28 GMT -5 Politically_Incorrect12 said:

 Kind of like people who see dicrimination, sexism, socialism, communism, and a move toward a theocracy all the time I supose. 

i agree 100%.  we need to chill out and stop seeing enemies everywhere all the time.  it is destroying our nation.

we can start by ignoring pundits like Limbaugh and Coulter.

And Maddow, Sharpton, and Matthews.

[Politically_Incorrect12]

By everything we see with what kids get in trouble for now, I think a legitimate question is how many of us would have gotten in trouble when we were kids if the same rules applied?

[Deleted]

Sept 19, 2015 15:03:55 GMT -5 @xmascookie said:

"who cares if a 10 year old kid has a bomb trigger? it is useless without explosives."

lol. Bomb class.

Good clean fun.

Our most popular class at spring co/op last year was Mini Weapons of Mass Destruction.

there were also two levels of electronics classes...

[Virgil Showlion]

Sept 20, 2015 10:28:16 GMT -5 @hickle said:

Sept 20, 2015 9:19:13 GMT -5 Virgil Showlion said:

I'm pretty sure that's not what the kid brought in.


Come on, Paul. The police severely overreacted because of the boy's ethnicity. All the lipstick in the world isn't going to make that pig beautiful.

I do not understand this response at all.  There are literally hundreds of examples of police overreacting to white kids.  I am sure there is lots of prejudice against brown kids, but this was just stupidity based on stupidity and no accountability.

I'm siding with "It's because of who he is." in this case due to the extent of the reaction.

As my own experience shows, everything up to and including being run into the principal's office and having the device confiscated is a typical reaction to this kind of incident.

The subsequent police involvement, especially the arrest, was excessive. Correct me if I'm wrong, but a kid being cuffed and led down to the police station isn't an element we've seen in any of these precedents.

If it turns out that the kid has a history, I'll reconsider my viewpoint. For now, the only reasonable explanation I can see for the particularly harsh treatment is that the kid was profiled as a likely terrorist.

[djAdvocate]

Sept 20, 2015 7:44:56 GMT -5 AgeOfEnlightenmentSCP said:

that looks like a redneck project to me. 

[djAdvocate]

Sept 20, 2015 10:50:16 GMT -5 Politically_Incorrect12 said:

Sept 20, 2015 2:58:00 GMT -5 djAdvocate said:

i agree 100%.  we need to chill out and stop seeing enemies everywhere all the time.  it is destroying our nation.

we can start by ignoring pundits like Limbaugh and Coulter.

And Maddow, Sharpton, and Matthews.

i don't consider Maddow reactionary and inciteful.  if you do, please list examples.

i don't know enough about the other two to comment.  but i know that they are more mainstream than the two i cited.

edit: ignore anyone you like.  it's a free country. 

[Virgil Showlion]

Sept 20, 2015 12:46:24 GMT -5 Sum Dum Gai said:

At the same time, posters' "It clearly wasn't a bomb." comments can go straight into the trash bin where they belong.

So we start treating all circuit boards like a bomb?  Are Americans really that stupid and scared? There are circuit boards in almost everything these days. Half the student population will be arrested and expelled every singe school year.

The solution is simple. Unless permission is explicitly granted by a faculty member in advance, no non-manufactured circuit boards on school grounds. If Jimmy wants to bring his nest of wires, batteries, components, and digital displays to school, he can do so with a written note of permission from his teacher.

Why? Because you're right. The vast majority of grade school teachers, like the vast majority of people generally, know "dick all" about electronics. They can't determine what any given circuit is or does, and we live in an era where kids walking into schools with IEDs isn't hard to imagine.

[MJ2.0]

People listen to Sharpton?

[zibazinski]

Sept 20, 2015 11:18:13 GMT -5 Politically_Incorrect12 said:

By everything we see with what kids get in trouble for now, I think a legitimate question is how many of us would have gotten in trouble when we were kids if the same rules applied?

A shit ton! We used to call people "retards" not even knowing what it meant. We used to call people "queer" with zero concept that it meant someone gay. We also used to yell constantly on the playground, filled with killer equipment that we got hurt on and never sued the school, that we were going to kill someone. Times change. Everyone knows to not bring stupid stuff to school because there was once upon a time a problem. You certainly are more PC with your words or at least, should be. This is old stuff by now and kids know better. Was he targeted because he was a Muslim? Yes, indeed. Should he have known better? Probably but he is a kid and they're known for being academically smart and clueless in every other way. I had/have a son just like him.   I still fault the teacher for not sending him immediately to the office and having someone come get it. Teachers SHOULD know better. I sure do and if confronted with that, would have said "how cool" get up to the office and get someone to come get it before trouble occurs. 

[Tennesseer]

Sept 20, 2015 15:44:14 GMT -5 Sum Dum Gai said:

Sept 20, 2015 14:11:13 GMT -5 Virgil Showlion said:

The solution is simple. Unless permission is explicitly granted by a faculty member in advance, no non-manufactured circuit boards on school grounds. If Jimmy wants to bring his nest of wires, batteries, components, and digital displays to school, he can do so with a written note of permission from his teacher.

Why? Because you're right. The vast majority of grade school teachers, like the vast majority of people generally, know "dick all" about electronics. They can't determine what any given circuit is or does, and we live in an era where kids walking into schools with IEDs isn't hard to imagine.

So schools that host robotics clubs, have classes in circuit design, and have classrooms full of circuit boards in the friggin smart boards should encourage Americans to fear circuit boards? That's your solution to a problem that doesn't even exist? No offense bro, but thank god you're Canadian. If you guys want to institutionalize fear of electrical engineering go for it. Let me know how that works out thirty years from now.

As to the fear of IEDs going off on US schools, has it ever happened? No. Then it's just as groundless as the fear of New Hampshire residents being loaded into box cars for ISIS beheadings.

The link below is possibly where this New Hampshire woman got her boxcar 'facts'.

THE FACTS-GUNDERSON PRISONER BOXCARS WITH SHACKLES-A REPORT

[NoNamePerson]

Sept 20, 2015 16:01:02 GMT -5 Tennesseer said:

Sept 20, 2015 15:44:14 GMT -5 Sum Dum Gai said:

So schools that host robotics clubs, have classes in circuit design, and have classrooms full of circuit boards in the friggin smart boards should encourage Americans to fear circuit boards? That's your solution to a problem that doesn't even exist? No offense bro, but thank god you're Canadian. If you guys want to institutionalize fear of electrical engineering go for it. Let me know how that works out thirty years from now.

As to the fear of IEDs going off on US schools, has it ever happened? No. Then it's just as groundless as the fear of New Hampshire residents being loaded into box cars for ISIS beheadings.

The link below is possibly where this New Hampshire woman got her boxcar 'facts'.

THE FACTS-GUNDERSON PRISONER BOXCARS WITH SHACKLES-A REPORT

Can you condense that down to two paragraphs for us old folks who might not have enough time left to read and comprehend all that. It doesn't take much for my eyes to glaze over and my mind to wander off into the wild blue yonder.        

[Virgil Showlion]

Sept 20, 2015 15:44:14 GMT -5 Sum Dum Gai said:

Sept 20, 2015 14:11:13 GMT -5 Virgil Showlion said:

The solution is simple. Unless permission is explicitly granted by a faculty member in advance, no non-manufactured circuit boards on school grounds. If Jimmy wants to bring his nest of wires, batteries, components, and digital displays to school, he can do so with a written note of permission from his teacher.

Why? Because you're right. The vast majority of grade school teachers, like the vast majority of people generally, know "dick all" about electronics. They can't determine what any given circuit is or does, and we live in an era where kids walking into schools with IEDs isn't hard to imagine.

So schools that host robotics clubs, have classes in circuit design, and have classrooms full of circuit boards in the friggin smart boards should encourage Americans to fear circuit boards?

Was this such a school? Do other students routinely bring homemade circuit boards to this school?

Is it normal behaviour or is it an exception? Was this kid a part of a robotics club where bringing an improvised circuit to school was ordinary and expected behaviour, or did he bring it in unexpectedly on a whim?

Let me put it this way: if it were up to me, I'd probably allow students to bring homemade circuits into school freely. Having said this, i) I respect school divisions' rights to treat such devices as a threat, ii) requiring students to have permission from a staff member is hardly burdensome, iii) I have no doubt that if the son of a known political radical walked into the middle of a school with an IED and blew your kids to kingdom come, you'd be the red-faced parent on TV cursing the school board for letting it happen.

[Deleted]

Sept 20, 2015 11:24:24 GMT -5 Virgil Showlion said:

Sept 20, 2015 10:28:16 GMT -5 @hickle said:

I do not understand this response at all.  There are literally hundreds of examples of police overreacting to white kids.  I am sure there is lots of prejudice against brown kids, but this was just stupidity based on stupidity and no accountability.

I'm siding with "It's because of who he is." in this case due to the extent of the reaction.

As my own experience shows, everything up to and including being run into the principal's office and having the device confiscated is a typical reaction to this kind of incident.

The subsequent police involvement, especially the arrest, was excessive. Correct me if I'm wrong, but a kid being cuffed and led down to the police station isn't an element we've seen in any of these precedents.

If it turns out that the kid has a history, I'll reconsider my viewpoint. For now, the only reasonable explanation I can see for the particularly harsh treatment is that the kid was profiled as a likely terrorist.

The police getting involved is common to many of the incidents I cited. The student with a fishing tackle box in his car with a knife in it was charged with a felony. 

[Tennesseer]

Sept 20, 2015 16:06:50 GMT -5 NoNamePerson said:

Sept 20, 2015 16:01:02 GMT -5 Tennesseer said:

The link below is possibly where this New Hampshire woman got her boxcar 'facts'.

THE FACTS-GUNDERSON PRISONER BOXCARS WITH SHACKLES-A REPORT

Can you condense that down to two paragraphs for us old folks who might not have enough time left to read and comprehend all that. It doesn't take much for my eyes to glaze over and my mind to wander off into the wild blue yonder.        

Three words: They are nuts.