Electric bicycle? - update post 16

[debthaven]

Does anyone have one? Can you tell me about it?

DD (23YO) just got a reception job in a very nice hotel. She works day/evening shifts, but no night shifts. She works either early morning to mid afternoon, or mid afternoon to late evening.

The hotel is just 10 min away by car, but 45 min away by bus and train ... when the buses are running. But very often there are no buses that early or late.

She just started getting her license but it will probably take 4-6 months (because that's just how it is here). We all need for her to be autonomous so we were thinking about an electric bicycle.

We were initially thinking about a scooter but a scooter license is over 500 euros, and then you have to buy the scooter. An electric bicycle is 750 euros. She would probably only use the electric bicycle regularly until she gets her DL, at which point she would get a car.

She is living at home. We are fine with that but we need her to be autonomous.

One question I have about the electric bike is, if it takes 25 min to bike to her hotel on a regular bike (which is what The Internet says), will an electric bike be faster, or only easier? The route is flat except for one hill, which is downhill TO work, and uphill FROM work.

Thanks!

ETA: For a regular bike, the Internet says it's 5.6 km / 3.5 miles / 23 minutes.

[bobosensei]

Will she be mainly on a road with vehicles, stop signs, and red lights or will she be mostly on a designated bike path where she can go as fast as she feels comfortable?

I don't see an electric bike saving her much time because there is only one hill, and the route is so short that she might spend more time dodging vehicles, waiting at red lights etc, than an electric bike can help make up for.

But keep in mind my experience is knowing three women 40+ years older than your DD that have them.  They never seem to get anywhere quicker, only easier if there are hills.  Though I suppose they could go at breakneck speeds if they wanted.  I think on a 5.6k, flat route your DD could pedal a regular bike as fast as she could safely go on an electric bike.

I do see it being better if she is worried about being sweaty at work, but again, as she goes downhill to work it shouldn't be too bad even with a regular bike.

[debthaven]

Thanks Bobosensei!

Yes she is worried about arriving sweaty at work, and she's not the type to ride a regular bike by choice. And she doesn't want to ride that hill uphill (even though there's only one, it's steep and several blocks long). 

She would be on small suburban roads, but not at rush hour. (If she were going at rush hour, the buses would be running.)

I think her main concern is required effort.   From additional reading this morning, it should save her some time as well but not orders of magnitude (maybe 5-7 minutes?)

ETA: She doesn't have a bike anymore, so it's not like she has a regular bike. Either way, she'd need to buy one, so we're thinking she might as well get an electric one. 

[lund]

Usually, electric bikes go quite a bit faster. But a lot depends on the route - as bobosensei said, stop signs, red  lights, and similar matter a lot.

I assume that you in addition to the cost of the license and the vehicle have included the cost of insurance?
Up here, scooters and similar are very expensive to insure!
Also electric bikes may cost extra, but not nearly as much.

Will your DDs bike/scooter/car be securely and cheaply parked at work and at home?


I think that the electric bike idea is a good one. She chiefly needs a bike, two locks, and a helmet and will be good to go.
But I still think that she should get a DL soon in order to be able to drive a car.
But if biking works well, she may not need to take on the expenses of a car right now, with an entry-level job and, I assume, paying for at least part of her DL.

[debthaven]

Lund good point about the scooter insurance, I hadn't even factored that in.

She IS planning to get her DL soon. I think a few trips in the rain by bike (electric or not) will light a fire under her butt. As you point out, she needs her DL whether or not she has her own car. 

ETA: Yes she would have a safe place to park, both at work and at home. 

[lund]

I lived at home until 19 (normal age for exam and leaving for higher studies here), and was smart enough to get my DL while still living at home and in school. I rarely drove, owned no car, but could drive if needed.

I also found out that many summer jobs asked for a DL, and got one job due to my ability to drive a company car if necessary.

Wether I had had a license for over five years (or was over 25) mattered when DH was buying car insurance.

Trying to get a DL later would have been much more difficult, both time-wise and financially, so I think that getting a DL as soon as possible and somewhat convenient is the best way to go.


If I had had an acceptably secure parking space for an electric bike, I would have bought one instead of buying a monthly bus pass. They do not require as much effort as a regular bike. It is more of the feeling of always going downhill. While going uphill, it is more like biking on flat ground.

[debthaven]

Lund I agree but DD has always struggled academically and didn't feel capable of getting her DL while in school (as you know it's more time-intensive and difficult in Europe). Now alas she's realizing it's not all that much easier to do while working FT, but we can't turn back the clock. :-)

But it sounds like the electric bike would be a good idea. 

[lund]

It seems as if it possible and somewhat convenient for your DD now!

[lund]

Some notes, in case they may be useful...

Some models have no "vital part" that can easily be brought in. (For some, you bring the battery pack.) Check that there is one and that this can be reasonably easily brought in.

Many bike batteries have a life time of about 5 years. There are replacements, but the cost may make buying a new bike a good idea.

Check that it is possible to attach a bike bag or a basket to the bike. (Of course, never ever put a purse in a basket - theft of purses from them is common even here.) It is nice to be able to bring rain gear or an extra sweater in a waterproof bike bag...

Also, an attached "emergency" pump is good to have.

Kit the bike out with reflexes on the wheel spokes (yellow), forwards (white) and backwards (red). They should be legal and available, but sometimes vehicle rules and standards vary in the EU.

Consider having generator powered lamps in addition to the common battery lamps. And explain that lamps are primarily to be seen, not to see.

I like using an IKEA reflective material vest too if it is dark. However, I am a middle-aged woman in an area where this is not too uncommon, and it may not be something that a young, more fashionable, lady would do.



Edit:

I forgot: Check the temperature range for storing the battery/bike. In case of cold temperatures, the battery may need to be brought indoors.

[debthaven]

Lund thanks! My DH is a biker so he will make sure DD has everything she needs. :-)

ETA: And yes we can go out and buy one on DD's next day off ... she understandably wants to see / try one first. 

Thanks for the help!

[lund]

Glad if I could be of any help!

And good luck with the solution of the transportation question!

[debthaven]

We were all supposed to go apple picking at the local farm this afternoon but it is POURING out.

DD gets off work at 3. So we may go to the local farm shop for the apples instead, and stop by the sporting goods store on the way home (Decathlon for those of you who know it).

I'll keep you posted! 

[bobosensei]

debt- how are the roads in the winter there?  I know I wouldn't want to ride my bicycle once it gets icy and snowy out.  Will she be able to safely use the bike until she gets the license?  I am not sure how much snow y'all get in the winter.

[debthaven]

We don't get much snow here. Usually once or twice a winter and it generally doesn't stick. We do get a lot of rain though...

Of course I'm fine with picking her up occasionally (ie if there is a freak snowstorm). I just don't want us to have to do it regularly. Even if she takes the bike 3 or 4 days a week, it's still a huge improvement in terms of her autonomy.  

ETA: Per all your comments, and continuing to think about it ... I've concluded that even if an electric bike isn't the perfect solution, it's still a pretty good one. And I know my DD ... a few rides in the rain and she'll be more motivated to get her DL. 

[bobosensei]

She might find she prefers the bicycle to waiting around for a bus or paying for gas and parking.  And even if she doesn't use it always it will be a nice option for her to have now, and after she is on her own.

[haapai]

I don't know how much this will help, but I'll weigh in. 

I'm generally resistant (or rude) when someone tells me that I must spend more money or inconvenience others in order to be safe.  I put off getting a cell phone for years because some fool told me that I needed one "for safety".  (This was back around the turn of the century when the cost of both the unit and the service was far more significant than now.)  Being told that I can't or shouldn't because I'm a girl makes me see red. 

I've also biked to a few jobs.  For the most part, it is safe, or at least far safer than begging rides.  The cars and the tricky things that railroad tracks and wildlife can do are far more dangerous than the people who offer rides home or the pedestrians that you'll encounter while pedaling.  The worst injuries that I have suffered commuting to work by pedal power have been from bunnies and ruts in the terrain. 

On the other hand, there have been a few times when I have become aware that I was traveling the same route, at the same time of early morning or night and that this wasn't particularly smart. 

It's always a good idea to know what your alternate routes are and occasionally practice them to find out how long they take.  If you know that the longer way only takes X number of minutes, you're much more likely to take it when your spidey sense tells you not to take the usual route.  Twenty-five years later, I still have no idea why there were six proletariat  youth at that intersection at 5:30 AM on a
Wednesday morning.  I saw them, counted them, and knew that taking the next turn would only add a few minutes to my commute.  Taking the turn is much easier when you've done it before. 

[debthaven]

Haapai ... I agree it is a good idea to learn alternate routes. There is also a forest route we are going to check out.

Anyway, done! We got DD got an electric bike this afternoon, DH got a regular bike (his was stolen a few months ago). They both rode back together from the mall, which is nearly the same distance from home as DD's hotel.

And because of DH's store card, everything was 10% off!  

DD is thrilled!

ETA: Haapai, DD already knows one alternate route. I spoke to her (again) about "trusting her instincts". I'm going to check out the forest route this week (it's closed to cars on the weekend.) It's one of the only roads near here where you have to worry about wildlife but the foxes and bunnies run pretty fast. 

[The Walk of the Penguin Mich]

I live in an area where we have a lot of bike commuters, mostly regular but I have seen trikes and unicycles too.

If your daughter is riding at sunrise or sunset, please make sure she is lit up like a Christmas tree.  The better bikers usually wear a fluorescent vest on top of their clothes and have a couple of strobe lights, either on their helmet or backpack.

I was driving into work early one morning and only saw a couple of bikers when my headlight reflected off their neck.  They caught up with me at the light, and I told them that they were not very visible on the road.  Next time I saw them, both had reflective vests on.  MUCH better.

[debthaven]

Definitely, Mich! You know that my DH is a biker so we have a bunch of those reflective fluo vests! 

We also got DD a white reflective helmet, and a strobe light for it. We bought her a poncho with reflective stripes (because she wanted a longer garment. She has to wear a skirt to work and she wanted something long enough to cover her legs. In cooler weather she'll wear sweatpants and take them off when she gets to work.)

I know I haven't mentioned bike lights, but that's only because per French legislation, they must be included with the bike. So her bike has them (in 3 places) even though we didn't purchase them. 

Also, per French law, the employer has to pay 50% of her public transport pass. Given that they have recently dezoned the transport here, it will cost DD 30 euros a month for a Paris-area transport pass. So after talking about it, she thinks she'll probably be taking the bike about 3X a week (basically the days she works weekends / evenings) and public transport the rest of the time.

Thank you all for your help and advice!

[The Walk of the Penguin Mich]

Excellent!  That's my biggest bitch about the local bikers.  The serious bikers usually do really good about making sure that they are seen but the other half of the local biking population is college students and not only are they not lit up, 9/10 times they don't even have a helmet on.

That second group scares the ever loving crap out of me if I'm out driving at night.  I can't avoid them if I can't see them.

[debthaven]

You all have no idea of how relieved I am! There ARE safety issues but I didn't want to derail the thread with them until we had made a decision.

Issue 1: DD was flashed on her way to the train station yesterday (across the street from the police station!) She should have called the police but she didn't. 

As you know we had basically already decided to go to the mall to check out those bikes today, even before she got off work.

Then we found out about safety issue 2. The hotel has a "guest house" for employees that need it. It has 4 bedrooms. DD asked if she could sleep there tonight because there are ZERO buses on Sun am. They said yes, but then today the night auditor told her she would be sharing it with 3 male workers that weren't regular hotel employees, and that he really, really didn't think it was safe for DD, and if she could find any other solution, it would be much better. DD told him, no I don't have any other solution. So he told DD he'd try to give DD a room in the hotel on the sly. And he told her if she did have to stay in the house, she should take the bedroom nearest the front door!

DD was both touched and horrified at his offer ... she said, that's all I need, for the night auditor to lose his job, and me to lose mine.

We had already basically decided to go to the mall today and look at those bikes before we heard that this afternoon. Once we heard that, that was it! Obviously we could have (and would have!) just driven DD to work tomorrow (at 6.30). But the same issues would come up again and again and again, until she gets her DL. We had to find a solution SOON, and I'm so happy we found one!

[lund]

Lights in three places? Now I am curious!

Consider two slap-on/wrap reflexes, to place on the wrists. Else, hand signals are invisible when it is dark.

[debthaven]

Back wheel, under the saddle, front wheel. 

That's a great idea Lund! We've got those too. 

ETA: This said, there is no way a 23 YO girl is going to wear EVERYTHING LOL. I doubt she will wear the wrist bands. And if she's wearing the poncho she probably won't wear the fluo jacket. 

[lund]

It really sounds as if the new bike will be an improvment!

So, if there are some people who may be making the area unsafe, your DD should make sure to have all her stuff packed and bike away while there are still coworkers around. In case of problems with her bike, she should go directly back in (where there are coworkers/known people) and phone you - not stay and tinker with the bike or phone outside.

And I agree wholly on knowing the alternative ways.


Here, the law is

• red reflector under saddle and/or on the splash guard over the back wheel, plus during dusk or dark red light backwards
• white reflector on stearing column plus during dusk or dark white light forwards, the latter lamp usually placed at the side of the wheel
• yellow spoke reflectors both wheels
• youth under 15 are required to wear a helmet but I think that more than half adults do too
  

many also wear extra strobe lights and/or reflective vests or jackets

Oh, and there are winter/snow tires for bikes too.

[The Walk of the Penguin Mich]

Between the lights on the bike and the poncho, it sounds like she's covered.  The only other suggestion I might make is look at clipping a strobe onto the back of her helmet.  This is the one that seems to catch my attention the fastest as a driver.  The light under the saddle might get obscured by her poncho.

Debt......I got flashed on the train from Paris to Versailles.  This was way back in 1996ish too!  Guys are going to flash, I don't necessarily think it's a safety issue, just an idiot (who very likely had too much to drink).

If there is a guest house where she can use one of the rooms, there are ways that you can block the door so no one can get in.  It likely would be as safe as a hotel room (they're sold as supplemental security for hotel rooms).  It would be easy enough to toss something like this in her bag when she went to work.  Something like this....

www.walmart.com/ip/10258356?wmlspartner=wlpa&selectedSellerId=0&adid=22222222227000008944&wl0=&wl1=g&wl2=c&wl3=40880133632&wl4=&wl5=pla&wl6=57787075546&veh=sem

[Deleted]

Sept 12, 2015 14:31:10 GMT -5 debthaven said:

Back wheel, under the saddle, front wheel. 

That's a great idea Lund! We've got those too. 

ETA: This said, there is no way a 23 YO girl is going to wear EVERYTHING LOL. I doubt she will wear the wrist bands. And if she's wearing the poncho she probably won't wear the fluo jacket. 

That sounds like reflectors. Are they really lights? If they're reflectors, she also needs battery operated lights. And actually look at them in the dark to make sure they're bright enough.

I was a passenger in a car a few weeks ago and there was someone riding a bicycle in the lane we were in. The street wasn't well lit, the bike was dark, his clothing was dark, it was almost midnight and just a couple blocks from Beale Street, lots of bars and restaurants in the area..... which to me means a lot of drivers won't have the best reflexes. I didn't even actually see the cyclist, some light hit the reflectors on the bicycle pedals for just a moment. If I didn't ride a bike myself, I might not have noticed. I told the driver of the car I was in to watch out, there was somebody on a bicycle in front of us. He didn't see him at all. As we passed him, I saw that he did have a faint red blinking light on the back of his bike. If he thought it was helping motorists see him, he was very wrong. I kind of wish I'd warned him.

[debthaven]

The only other suggestion I might make is look at clipping a strobe onto the back of her helmet.

The store gave her that one! 

Lund, I am not the biker, DH is ... the laws sound similar but I'm thinking that I may have mistaken the front reflector for lights.   

Here, it has to be a strobe light under the saddle, definitely not a reflector. 

Haha Mich! I was flashed in the 8th many years ago, at lunchtime! DD told me, but he saw me, and he kept doing it! I told her, d'oh, that's why they call them exhibitionists! If he didn't want you or another girl to see him, he would have stayed at home! 

This said, that small forest has its shares of rapes. Some of the neighborhood kids go THROUGH the forest to get to the local HS / train station. DD has to walk ALONG it to get to the train station. 

Hopefully her DL will come too one day!

[debthaven]

Pink (and Lund), indeed, there are 2 sets of reflectors, and 2 (but not 3) sets of lights. My bad. 

ETA: She DOES have a 3rd set of lights but that's on the helmet, not on the bike itself. 

DH paid for DD's bike. We will pay for 1/3 and DD will only have to pay DH back for 2/3, as long as she wears her helmet. That was DH's deal, and DD will respect it. 

[tskeeter]

Sept 12, 2015 14:17:14 GMT -5 The Walk of the Penguin Mich said:

Excellent!  That's my biggest bitch about the local bikers.  The serious bikers usually do really good about making sure that they are seen but the other half of the local biking population is college students and not only are they not lit up, 9/10 times they don't even have a helmet on.

That second group scares the ever loving crap out of me if I'm out driving at night.  I can't avoid them if I can't see them.

The cyclist that scare me are the weeknd cyclists.  The hard core racer types, decked out in full cycling apparel, can ride a straight line, usually don't do anything unexpected, and know how to play in traffic.  It's the weekend "let's go for a bike ride" crowd that weaves all over the place every time they look a different direction, can't manage the shifters, and suddenly changes direction without any indication or any consideration that they are just a few feet from vehicles that can easily kill them.  

[lund]

Is the electric bike a good solution for your DD so far?

And does she like her new job?