kent
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Post by kent on Sept 2, 2015 10:39:07 GMT -5
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ՏՇԾԵԵʅՏɧ_LԹՏՏʅҼ
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Post by ՏՇԾԵԵʅՏɧ_LԹՏՏʅҼ on Sept 2, 2015 10:51:54 GMT -5
I feel for Perry. The school didn't handle it well, and the people protesting/raising a stink are ignorant (and bigoted).
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Opti
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Post by Opti on Sept 2, 2015 11:04:53 GMT -5
I feel for the kid, but I think its reasonable for the transgender girl to keep using the separate unisex bathroom.
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Phoenix84
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Post by Phoenix84 on Sept 2, 2015 11:39:50 GMT -5
I think it's unreasonable to expect people to accept a opposite sex individual in their locker room or bathroom, regardless of what they identify as.
I don't think that makes anyone "bigoted."
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Phoenix84
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Post by Phoenix84 on Sept 2, 2015 13:52:24 GMT -5
Personally, as an adult, I don't care who uses the public bathroom I'm in. But if I had kids, I would very much have a problem with my 14 year old son or daughter using a locker room or bathroom with an opposite sex individual.
Having this individual use a private restroom is a fair compromise.
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djAdvocate
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Post by djAdvocate on Sept 2, 2015 13:57:13 GMT -5
Personally, as an adult, I don't care who uses the public bathroom I'm in. But if I had kids, I would very much have a problem with my 14 year old son or daughter using a locker room or bathroom with an opposite sex individual. Having this individual use a private restroom is a fair compromise. I am an adult and I don't want to use the same bathroom as the opposite sex. me neither, actually.
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The Captain
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Post by The Captain on Sept 2, 2015 14:01:04 GMT -5
So then, it isn't ok to over-ride the feelings of the majority, to protect the feelings of a minority?
Just asking for discussion's sake. We're talking about what makes us comfortable, but is that what this is about?
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grumpyhermit
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Post by grumpyhermit on Sept 2, 2015 14:19:01 GMT -5
I think the student should have the right to be accommodated by not forcing them to use the men's room. The school did that by providing/having a unisex bathroom and locker room.
I don't think the student has a right to use the girls room just because they want to, prior to gender reassignment surgery. We have separate restrooms in this country, and lets be real, they are not divided along lines of "feelings" they are divided according to what bits are in your underpants. As long as that is the case I think it is fair to bar access, provided other accommodations are made. I don't really agree with the DOEs recommendation.
This case would be harder for me if there were no unisex bathroom. I think it would be equally unfair to force this student to use a male restroom; I can only imagine the torment that would ensue.
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The Captain
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Post by The Captain on Sept 2, 2015 14:25:21 GMT -5
@sroo4 (understand I'm feeling a bit of a devil's advocate here - just want to have a discussion, that's all)
Is it about the majority, though? Does majority rule determine what is "right" or even "fair"?
At one point in history a majority didn't think women, minorities, or even non land owners should vote.
Hell, at one point in this country "Separate but equal" was considered a-ok. How is that different from this situation?
What makes this especially tough is that from what little I do know, most ethical doctors won't even consider physical gender reassignment until the individual reaches adulthood. So the individual can't get herself reassigned to be in the right bathroom even if they wanted to.
It's a kinda catch 22.
But, as you said, you can't accommodate everyone without making someone uncomfortable.
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Wisconsin Beth
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Post by Wisconsin Beth on Sept 2, 2015 14:47:49 GMT -5
As an adult, I don't care who uses what bathroom as long as they clean up after themselves.
I see a lot of family restrooms. But I have kids under the age of 8, so maybe I'm just spending too much time in places that cater to families with youngish children...
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grumpyhermit
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Post by grumpyhermit on Sept 2, 2015 14:49:52 GMT -5
We have decided in this country that civil rights are not to be subject to the whims of the majority; and the issue of transgenderism has been gathered under that umbrella.
As such, we are obliged to accommodate transgender individuals. How, seems to still be a work in process. Unisex accommodations seem like a fine solution to me (however I am not transgender, so I can't speak to their feelings on the matter - I could see how they see it as offensive - a case of separate but equal). I don't know that there is a perfect solution, but I think we at least need to try.
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mmhmm
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Post by mmhmm on Sept 2, 2015 14:54:29 GMT -5
When it comes to women's bathrooms, I don't care much what gender a user might be. Women's bathrooms have only stalls. Go into the stall, close the door, and do your business. As long as you're in there with the door closed, I don't have a view of your "bits" so it doesn't make a difference. However, I've lived in countries where unisex bathrooms were a matter of course. Nobody even gave it a thought. I can understand, in this country, how women using a men's bathroom might be a problem because of the urinals. However, you're not going to be exposed to something you don't see, so don't look! Do your business, wash your hands, and get outa Dodge. Why is this so darned complicated?
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midjd
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Post by midjd on Sept 2, 2015 15:00:57 GMT -5
Seriously. Of the many, many offensive things people do in public restrooms, "having different genitals than I" is pretty far down on the list.
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zibazinski
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Post by zibazinski on Sept 2, 2015 15:38:51 GMT -5
This is a locker room situation, is it not? I'm not undressing in front of a strange man. I don't care what he feels he is. He's a man. The school accommodated him by letting him use a private area. He wants to be in the girls locker room. Sorry, not happening no matter what he feels he is. It's icky enough to be around a bunch of naked people who look like you. One that doesn't? Sorry, Charlie. He's pushing himself into an area where he doesn't belong because it's all about him. He thinks he's a woman, fine. But he's not. The school accommodated him but that's not good enough for him. This reminds me of the peanut butter crap. The parents lost that case as they should have. The world doesn't revolve around your little precious.
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garion2003
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Post by garion2003 on Sept 2, 2015 16:12:56 GMT -5
Seriously. Of the many, many offensive things people do in public restrooms, "having different genitals than I" is pretty far down on the list. I bet a FTM (female to male) transperson won't leave a puddle on the floor after he's done! Seriously guys, can you not AIM? Or at least be careful?
I'm a cis male, and I've learned to aim. It ain't rocket science, boys.
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Deleted
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Post by Deleted on Sept 2, 2015 16:27:49 GMT -5
A democracy is about the majority. It's why we are a republic.
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mroped
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Post by mroped on Sept 2, 2015 17:23:30 GMT -5
We are still at a point where we are classified by what you wear in your crotch It sounds like at this point this kid is still a "he". The school made the effort and provided him with a separate locker. Him wanted to be in the girls locker room is a bit over the edge and I fear with an agenda as in " poor me, I'm being discriminated against!" Untill he becomes a she should not even be a discussion about it. When he becomes she then SHE can use the girls locker. This is not about unisex bathrooms or how comfortable is one taking a shower next to one of opposite sex. Those things are done by adults that realize that it's OK. These are still children and even worse they are teenagers.
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Deleted
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Post by Deleted on Sept 2, 2015 17:32:56 GMT -5
So you want to socialize them one way so they act a different ways as an adult...?
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Tennesseer
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Post by Tennesseer on Sept 2, 2015 17:54:39 GMT -5
To be perfectly blunt, I don't want to hear anyone in the stall next to me, be they male or female, taking a really healthy, noisy, smelly . Mine are bad enough.
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mroped
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Post by mroped on Sept 2, 2015 19:58:00 GMT -5
So you want to socialize them one way so they act a different ways as an adult...? Call me old fashioned but if a girl has a penis, she sure as hell doesn't belong in the girls locker room! This is not a problem of how or what we feel but again an issue of what we physycaly are at the moment. As I said, when all is set and done, she can join the girls in the locker room. At that time there won't be any issues I hope, beside the typical girlie clicks/gangs. Having acces to the girls bathroom is a different story. There is nothing wrong with that, I hope they allow her/him in there. All happens behind closed doors so there is that
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fishy999
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Post by fishy999 on Sept 2, 2015 22:07:24 GMT -5
I don't want to see anyone else's junk male or female. Unisex toilets are just fine- as long as they come with a lock on the door- and maybe floor to ceiling partitions like they do at some rest stops. I prefer toilet privacy.
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Deleted
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Post by Deleted on Sept 2, 2015 22:17:59 GMT -5
Seriously. It's amazing how often I manage to go to the bathroom in public without seeing a vagina ...
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whoisjohngalt
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Post by whoisjohngalt on Sept 2, 2015 23:21:01 GMT -5
Do you guys REALLY forgot what it was like going to the bathroom in school?
Granted, I didn't grow up in US - but teenagers are teenagers, I think....
Also, the subject of majority vs minority is completely irrelevant here. School offered a very nice and sensible solution. The fact that the kid refused says that it's not about which bathroom to use, but about the point that he/she tries to make.
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Tennesseer
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Post by Tennesseer on Sept 3, 2015 7:18:34 GMT -5
Maybe we need to get back to real public toilets like our ancestors used. Plus no stinky stall or room for the next user.
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Tennesseer
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Post by Tennesseer on Sept 3, 2015 12:03:44 GMT -5
Maybe we need to get back to real public toilets like our ancestors used. Plus no stinky stall or room for the next user. I think I would enjoy travelling with the Oped family.
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Deleted
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Post by Deleted on Sept 3, 2015 12:11:06 GMT -5
The Blue Lagoon had very open nudity locker rooms... Could have viewed a few there I'm guessing, somehow I still can't recall a single one...
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Wisconsin Beth
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Post by Wisconsin Beth on Sept 3, 2015 12:12:37 GMT -5
I did take them into the men's room if I was the one taking them to the bathroom. I'm a guy, it would be weird and uncomfortable for people if I walked into the ladies. They were little. They didn't know or care as long as it had a potty and sink. When they were old enough to start questioning it I explained that I'm not allowed in the women's room, but kids could use the men's room if their dad was with them. They could go with mom to use the women's room, or use that one on their own while I waited outside. Do most other father's use the women's room if they have young girls? I figured they would just take them into the men's room. It's really not a big deal. I guess I wasn't talking about real young girls that need an adult.. I was thinking more of the 7+ range and you not being with them. My daughter is 7, my son is almost 6. In places with multiple stalls, they want me by the sinks while they take care of business. In single stall/user bathrooms, DD goes in and I wait outside. With DS, I go in and turn my back because he wants me in there but he doesn't want me looking. I've tried to send DS into multiple stall men's rooms. It's a no go. He'll stick his head in and decide he doesn't need to go. I think he's uncomfortable with urinals. But I have 1 boy, 1 girl and they often see each other naked.
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Deleted
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Post by Deleted on Sept 3, 2015 12:25:06 GMT -5
I don't like getting naked in front of anyone I'm not having sex with. I think all locker rooms should be designed with privacy options.
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whoisjohngalt
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Post by whoisjohngalt on Sept 3, 2015 12:25:35 GMT -5
If I am out with the kids by myself, I send them to the ladies room bc if they need something, I need to be able to go in.
But like I said, I think there is a huge difference between regular bathrooms and bathrooms in middle/high schools.
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Deleted
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Post by Deleted on Sept 3, 2015 12:26:53 GMT -5
On the other hand, I have gone to the baths in South Korea. They were female only. Still to repressed to go to the unisex baths in Japan, maybe someday...
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