Virgil Showlion
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Post by Virgil Showlion on Sept 4, 2015 13:38:02 GMT -5
Opti: I am by no means claiming that resistance is always effective or that it always proves to be the superior course of action given the benefit of restrospection. I'm saying that practical strategies can never be cherry-picked with the benefit of hindsight and our advice should reflect this. The best we can do is select an optimum "one-size-fits-all" strategy and stick with it in spite of its shortcomings. All things considered, "fight back" is this optimum strategy. I make this same argument here. NomoreDramaQ1015: I appreciate rhetoric as much as the next guy, but if your sole interest in a debate is to twist an opponent's arguments into something he clearly isn't saying, you're not doing anyone any favours. Take some cheap shots and score some 'likes' if you're so moved, but to insinuate that "you must have secretly in some part of your mind wanted to do it" is somehow buried in my arguments is BS and you know it. The bolded is your belief, not mine. I do not think we need a one-size-fits-all strategy. I think the optimum strategy really depends on circumstance. Fight back generally does not work IMO when its under 18 years old versus adult or any big size mismatch. For example HS teens with 6'4" BFs usually are not successful with the fight back strategy.
I think whoever is in the situation has the right to choose whatever strategy they think best as they have to live with the consequences of it working, not working, how assaulted they might get, etc. Sometimes there is no good choice. And I think each individual should be allowed to decide whether death is preferable to rape. Why should we make anyone feel guilty for choosing to live? Should we make people feel guilty for surviving an extreme beating as well for not choosing to fight enough so they die too?
I don't care if advice makes people feel guilty when they elect (reasonably or not) to dismiss it. You can't throw a stick circa 2015 without it hitting somebody who feels guilty if you speak truth to reason. "Never cause guilt" is notably low on conservatives' list of priorities. If you earnestly believe that "If your assailant has more than 40 pounds on you, don't aggravate him; submit and let it happen." is good advice, the wonderful thing about our society is we can agree to disagree. My advice is "fight back with all your might". I consider it prudent. Even if it fails to dissuade the rapist, it may prove instrumental in obtaining justice in the courtroom. It's the advice I would follow myself whether a would-be rapist had 40, 80, or 120 pounds on me. I don't condemn anyone if they choose to submit. There's no reason to feel guilty because you didn't do as Virgil said. But we'd all do well to let our advice reflect our best rational assessment in spite of how many bleeding hearts (who never fail to hypothesize the existence of better alternatives but can never provide any) are determined to equate it with victim blaming.
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happyhoix
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Post by happyhoix on Sept 4, 2015 14:23:53 GMT -5
Say, your loser brother in law comes over to the house to borrow your washer and dryer, and while you think he's drinking beer and watching TV in the family room he's actually sneaking up behind you and gets his hands around your throat and forces you down onto a bed, who will come help you, if you scream, if no one else is around? Will thrashing around and trying to hit him make him run away, or will it make him lean all of his weight on your, crush the breath from your lungs and squeeze your throat until you stop thrashing around? Will that be when you pass out or when you're dead?
Strangers aren't as likely to get into your house, and you aren't going to ignore their presence there if you notice them because you assume they are 'safe, like your BIL. ' If you see a stranger in your home, at the end of the hallway, you won't let them approach you - you'll retreated behind a locked door to call the cops or to climb out a window. But a non stranger can easily get up close to a woman without raising her flight or fight instincts until he makes his move, and then it's too late.
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djAdvocate
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Post by djAdvocate on Sept 4, 2015 15:45:31 GMT -5
Say, your loser brother in law comes over to the house to borrow your washer and dryer, and while you think he's drinking beer and watching TV in the family room he's actually sneaking up behind you and gets his hands around your throat and forces you down onto a bed, who will come help you, if you scream, if no one else is around? Will thrashing around and trying to hit him make him run away, or will it make him lean all of his weight on your, crush the breath from your lungs and squeeze your throat until you stop thrashing around? Will that be when you pass out or when you're dead? Strangers aren't as likely to get into your house, and you aren't going to ignore their presence there if you notice them because you assume they are 'safe, like your BIL. ' If you see a stranger in your home, at the end of the hallway, you won't let them approach you - you'll retreated behind a locked door to call the cops or to climb out a window. But a non stranger can easily get up close to a woman without raising her flight or fight instincts until he makes his move, and then it's too late. are there cultures/countries where rape is not a problem? if so, what makes them different? edit: i just looked it up, and Japan has 1/20th the rapes per capita of the US. why?
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Chocolate Lover
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Post by Chocolate Lover on Sept 4, 2015 15:51:32 GMT -5
The bolded is your belief, not mine. I do not think we need a one-size-fits-all strategy. I think the optimum strategy really depends on circumstance. Fight back generally does not work IMO when its under 18 years old versus adult or any big size mismatch. For example HS teens with 6'4" BFs usually are not successful with the fight back strategy.
I think whoever is in the situation has the right to choose whatever strategy they think best as they have to live with the consequences of it working, not working, how assaulted they might get, etc. Sometimes there is no good choice. And I think each individual should be allowed to decide whether death is preferable to rape. Why should we make anyone feel guilty for choosing to live? Should we make people feel guilty for surviving an extreme beating as well for not choosing to fight enough so they die too?
I don't care if advice makes people feel guilty when they elect (reasonably or not) to dismiss it. You can't throw a stick circa 2015 without it hitting somebody who feels guilty if you speak truth to reason. "Never cause guilt" is notably low on conservatives' list of priorities. If you earnestly believe that "If your assailant has more than 40 pounds on you, don't aggravate him; submit and let it happen." is good advice, the wonderful thing about our society is we can agree to disagree. My advice is "fight back with all your might". I consider it prudent. Even if it fails to dissuade the rapist, it may prove instrumental in obtaining justice in the courtroom. It's the advice I would follow myself whether a would-be rapist had 40, 80, or 120 pounds on me. I don't condemn anyone if they choose to submit. There's no reason to feel guilty because you didn't do as Virgil said. But we'd all do well to let our advice reflect our best rational assessment in spite of how many bleeding hearts (who never fail to hypothesize the existence of better alternatives but can never provide any) are determined to equate it with victim blaming. <<deep breath>>.................... <<sigh>> I don't even have words for half the crap I'm experiencing/thinking here. I'm 5'3". I had the 6'4" BF in HS and from horseplay experience alone with him (since he never forced himself on me that's what I have to work with), I NEVER would have won the battle, much less the war had he decided to force himself on me. He had the advantage in every physical way possible. I'd guess he had about 60ish pounds on me. I do know that he could use one hand to pin both my wrists together. I probably would have fought him but not so sure I'd fight an equal sized person I didn't know as well. I'd have no idea where their threshold for violence was, if rape was enough to "make them happy" or if they could be pushed to murder if I fought too hard. I hope to never have to make those snap decisions, but my odds are much better than yours that I'll have to. I suspect, though, that you really would judge me if I chose not to fight back. You fight too hard that it's most always the best option, no way you wouldn't think I could have done more.
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djAdvocate
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Post by djAdvocate on Sept 4, 2015 17:47:23 GMT -5
Seem to be a lot of guys here that have spent a good amount of time thinking about how they'd respond to a rape. Makes no sense. Unless you're planning on getting locked up at some point your odds of being raped are close enough to zero that it really doesn't matter. Do you have a plan for how you'll react if a meteor strikes you too? i am interested in justice issues. if women are being abused and have no recourse to the law, that should concern all men. to not think about it, to not be concerned, is far more worrisome (and puzzling) to me than the opposite.
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Post by Deleted on Sept 4, 2015 20:47:33 GMT -5
Seem to be a lot of guys here that have spent a good amount of time thinking about how they'd respond to a rape. Makes no sense. Unless you're planning on getting locked up at some point your odds of being raped are close enough to zero that it really doesn't matter. Do you have a plan for how you'll react if a meteor strikes you too?If you do get locked up you'll find that nobody gives a shit, even if you can prove you were raped, and lots of guys willingly trade sexual favors for protection because being "lovingly" raped by a guy you know is better than being forcibly beaten and raped by a bunch of dudes that you don't. Interestingly none of them really fight to the death. After enough ass kicking you can't put up much of a fight and the 1-3 big dudes have their way with you. Yes. I plan to "react" by being dead (well... if it actually STRIKES ME... that's the most likely outcome).
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Virgil Showlion
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Post by Virgil Showlion on Sept 4, 2015 20:48:04 GMT -5
I don't care if advice makes people feel guilty when they elect (reasonably or not) to dismiss it. You can't throw a stick circa 2015 without it hitting somebody who feels guilty if you speak truth to reason. "Never cause guilt" is notably low on conservatives' list of priorities. If you earnestly believe that "If your assailant has more than 40 pounds on you, don't aggravate him; submit and let it happen." is good advice, the wonderful thing about our society is we can agree to disagree. My advice is "fight back with all your might". I consider it prudent. Even if it fails to dissuade the rapist, it may prove instrumental in obtaining justice in the courtroom. It's the advice I would follow myself whether a would-be rapist had 40, 80, or 120 pounds on me. I don't condemn anyone if they choose to submit. There's no reason to feel guilty because you didn't do as Virgil said. But we'd all do well to let our advice reflect our best rational assessment in spite of how many bleeding hearts (who never fail to hypothesize the existence of better alternatives but can never provide any) are determined to equate it with victim blaming. <<deep breath>>.................... <<sigh>> I don't even have words for half the crap I'm experiencing/thinking here. I'm 5'3". I had the 6'4" BF in HS and from horseplay experience alone with him (since he never forced himself on me that's what I have to work with), I NEVER would have won the battle, much less the war had he decided to force himself on me. He had the advantage in every physical way possible. I'd guess he had about 60ish pounds on me. I do know that he could use one hand to pin both my wrists together. I probably would have fought him but not so sure I'd fight an equal sized person I didn't know as well. I'd have no idea where their threshold for violence was, if rape was enough to "make them happy" or if they could be pushed to murder if I fought too hard. I hope to never have to make those snap decisions, but my odds are much better than yours that I'll have to. I suspect, though, that you really would judge me if I chose not to fight back. You fight too hard that it's most always the best option, no way you wouldn't think I could have done more. I asked Mrs. Virgil for her thoughts. Her viewpoint is summarized: - She would resist rape by an assailant of any size provided he wasn't armed with a weapon.
- If the assailant was armed, she would only resist given a good opportunity to do so. The specifics of "good opportunity" are fairly detailed and generally relate to likelihood of success. Generally speaking, she would rather be alive and assaulted than dead.
- Although she wouldn't feel "guilty" about not resisting rape, she claimed she would feel regret if she didn't at least attempt it.
- She agrees with me that advocating certain behaviours is by no means equivalent to blaming the victim.
- She agrees with me that giving prudent advice (this actually pertains to the frat house arc in the Subway thread) is more important than avoiding the risk of making victims think they're to blame, but she stressed that we should be certain to let people know that we aren't blaming them for the crime and that we should never adopt an "I told you so" attitude if somebody is victimized. (I didn't tell her that I've issued such disclaimers at least a dozen times, or that I could issue them a dozen more times and some YMAM posters still wouldn't give a damn.)
- She claims it's "hard for men to understand what being a woman is like, where you're not fighting the other guy to hurt him or disable him, where you it's all you can do is fight to get away", and she points out that my father-in-law has exactly the same issue with his thinking that I do.
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Virgil Showlion
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Post by Virgil Showlion on Sept 4, 2015 20:57:27 GMT -5
After enough ass kicking you can't put up much of a fight and the 1-3 big dudes have their way with you. By "resist" we're implicitly talking about "attempt to resist". There are no circumstances under which I would not attempt to resist. It's a fundamental statement of values. Nothing more. Your priorities might be different, and I agree that there isn't much point to comparing them.
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fishy999
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Post by fishy999 on Sept 4, 2015 23:01:41 GMT -5
<<deep breath>>.................... <<sigh>> I don't even have words for half the crap I'm experiencing/thinking here. I'm 5'3". I had the 6'4" BF in HS and from horseplay experience alone with him (since he never forced himself on me that's what I have to work with), I NEVER would have won the battle, much less the war had he decided to force himself on me. He had the advantage in every physical way possible. I'd guess he had about 60ish pounds on me. I do know that he could use one hand to pin both my wrists together. I probably would have fought him but not so sure I'd fight an equal sized person I didn't know as well. I'd have no idea where their threshold for violence was, if rape was enough to "make them happy" or if they could be pushed to murder if I fought too hard. I hope to never have to make those snap decisions, but my odds are much better than yours that I'll have to. I suspect, though, that you really would judge me if I chose not to fight back. You fight too hard that it's most always the best option, no way you wouldn't think I could have done more. I asked Mrs. Virgil for her thoughts. Her viewpoint is summarized: - She would resist rape by an assailant of any size provided he wasn't armed with a weapon.
- If the assailant was armed, she would only resist given a good opportunity to do so. The specifics of "good opportunity" are fairly detailed and generally relate to likelihood of success. Generally speaking, she would rather be alive and assaulted than dead.
- Although she wouldn't feel "guilty" about not resisting rape, she claimed she would feel regret if she didn't at least attempt it.
- She agrees with me that advocating certain behaviours is by no means equivalent to blaming the victim.
- She agrees with me that giving prudent advice (this actually pertains to the frat house arc in the Subway thread) is more important than avoiding the risk of making victims think they're to blame, but she stressed that we should be certain to let people know that we aren't blaming them for the crime and that we should never adopt an "I told you so" attitude if somebody is victimized. (I didn't tell her that I've issued such disclaimers at least a dozen times, or that I could issue them a dozen more times and some YMAM posters still wouldn't give a damn.)
- She claims it's "hard for men to understand what being a woman is like, where you're not fighting the other guy to hurt him or disable him, where you it's all you can do is fight to get away", and she points out that my father-in-law has exactly the same issue with his thinking that I do.
I'd hang onto that woman if I were you- she is about 10X smarter than you are.
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djAdvocate
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Post by djAdvocate on Sept 5, 2015 0:29:58 GMT -5
I have two teenage daughters, I'm plenty concerned about sex crimes against women. Just don't see how a man talking about how he would react adds anything to the conversation. The whole I'll die swinging thing is a lot easier to say when you bench 250 not 80. KWIM? i guess i don't know who you are talking about then. what man is talking about how they would react?
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djAdvocate
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Post by djAdvocate on Sept 5, 2015 0:34:23 GMT -5
Virgil and Richard were talking about it. Few other people chimed in as well. Scroll back and look for yourself. nah. i will take your word for it. speaking for myself, i am just trying to listen.
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Post by Deleted on Sept 5, 2015 1:19:08 GMT -5
Virgil and Richard were talking about it. Few other people chimed in as well. Scroll back and look for yourself. You might want to check that again. We were answering the question of "guys, what if it was your wallet". We weren't discussing how we would react to being raped (although since my wallet answer was "die first", my answer to how would i react if someone was trying to rape me wouldn't come as shock that it's "die first" too).
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Post by Deleted on Sept 5, 2015 4:04:01 GMT -5
It just seemed like a weird tangent given how infrequently men are raped outside of prison. It was one deminmaine's question...
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AgeOfEnlightenmentSCP
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Post by AgeOfEnlightenmentSCP on Sept 13, 2015 21:52:54 GMT -5
I have never put anyone ignore before. But life is too short to read you Virgil. Goodbye. I find when I get blocked or ignored, it is because I was right and the other person didn't know how to deal with it. I think I am down to one poster on ignore. If djAdvocate keeps taking the medication, it'll probably stay that way.
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mmhmm
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Post by mmhmm on Sept 13, 2015 21:55:50 GMT -5
I find when I get blocked or ignored, it is because I was right and the other person didn't know how to deal with it. I think I am down to one poster on ignore. If djAdvocate keeps taking the medication, it'll probably stay that way. Hmm. By that logic, the person who has you blocked is right and you just don't know how to deal with it. That's an interesting take on the issue. I shall ponder ...
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djAdvocate
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Post by djAdvocate on Sept 13, 2015 21:58:51 GMT -5
I find when I get blocked or ignored, it is because I was right and the other person didn't know how to deal with it. I think I am down to one poster on ignore. If djAdvocate keeps taking the medication, it'll probably stay that way. it was stupid to ever block me, Paul. but do whatever the fuck you want. i will still be around when you come to your senses.
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AgeOfEnlightenmentSCP
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Post by AgeOfEnlightenmentSCP on Sept 13, 2015 22:06:27 GMT -5
Speaking of djAdvocate - to the problem of prosecuting rape, yes, it is very difficult. I did look into some of the statistics that have been shared here, and the claims come up wanting-- especially the percentage of women who "know" their attacker. It seems the word "know" is used rather loosely. The claim seems to be made to imply that huge majorities of women who are raped report, "We were friends for awhile and then all of the sudden he raped me". When in fact they tend to only know their attackers as friends of friends, acquaintances, friends of the family, etc. I wouldn't necessarily classify any such person as someone I know. Being vaguely familiar with someone's name and appearance, and being able to pick them out of a line up is a far cry from "knowing" them. The claim strikes me as one that is used to create fear, division, and mistrust between men and women. Let's face it, the liberal agenda doesn't thrive on mental stability and vibrant healthy interpersonal relationships. The practical reasons that rape is difficult to prosecute is that it is difficult to prove. A DNA sample doesn't automatically validate a rape claim. If this occurred as part of an actual sex act, which it does not necessarily prove, there comes the discussion of whether or not it is consensual? And since we cannot convict a man of rape on the word of a woman without evidence to corroborate her claim, it does present a problem. This is why I tend to focus on prevention, even prevention that places a burden upon, and inconveniences the prospective victims. Now, some women might say to me, "That's easy for you to say", and I'll concede: it is. So, what? Do you want to be right, or not raped? I'm guessing you'll pick the latter. Does it suck to be a woman at times? Yes. Is it fair? No. Again- so, what? As far as prosecution goes- I suppose technology presents some easier ways to document the crime? However, again I come back to the highest and best use of ones time, energy, and resources when it comes to rape? Do you want to document the crime, or avoid it?
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AgeOfEnlightenmentSCP
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Post by AgeOfEnlightenmentSCP on Sept 13, 2015 22:08:15 GMT -5
I find when I get blocked or ignored, it is because I was right and the other person didn't know how to deal with it. I think I am down to one poster on ignore. If djAdvocate keeps taking the medication, it'll probably stay that way. Hmm. By that logic, the person who has you blocked is right and you just don't know how to deal with it. That's an interesting take on the issue. I shall ponder ... All things being equal, that would be true. But we're talking about me here.
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AgeOfEnlightenmentSCP
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Post by AgeOfEnlightenmentSCP on Sept 13, 2015 22:10:09 GMT -5
I find when I get blocked or ignored, it is because I was right and the other person didn't know how to deal with it. I think I am down to one poster on ignore. If djAdvocate keeps taking the medication, it'll probably stay that way. it was stupid to ever block me, Paul. but do whatever the fuck you want. i will still be around when you come to your senses. You're not blocked.
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djAdvocate
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Post by djAdvocate on Sept 13, 2015 23:53:25 GMT -5
it was stupid to ever block me, Paul. but do whatever the fuck you want. i will still be around when you come to your senses. You're not blocked. yes, i know. you came to your senses. congratulations.
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tallguy
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Post by tallguy on Sept 14, 2015 1:48:10 GMT -5
I have a feeling I'm not any more either, but, no worries. I'll keep working on it though.
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happyhoix
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Post by happyhoix on Sept 14, 2015 8:44:31 GMT -5
I would agree that women should not get falling down drunk in bars and go home with strange men, etc.
However, a majority of rapes come from people women know. A co-worker or a fellow student or a neighbor. Someone you thought was a nice guy, and then he gets drunk or thinks you're coming on to him when you aren't, and bad things happen. Then there are the boyfriends or husbands who get angry or drunk and force themselves on their GF's or wives.
The only way to avoid those kinds of rapes is to never be alone with men at all - not really possible, logistically. Even if you try to adopt the conservative Muslim approach of never being alone with a male who isn't a family member or spouse, that doesn't protect you completely.
To try to lead a productive life, going to school with men, working with men, living in neighborhoods with men, women are obligated to be around men. Almost always, nothing bad happens. But when it does, I don't think it's helpful to claim the rape wouldn't have happened if the woman hadn't been on that date/ working in that office/living next door to the rapist.
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Tennesseer
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Post by Tennesseer on Sept 14, 2015 8:55:07 GMT -5
I would agree that women should not get falling down drunk in bars and go home with strange men, etc. However, a majority of rapes come from people women know. A co-worker or a fellow student or a neighbor. Someone you thought was a nice guy, and then he gets drunk or thinks you're coming on to him when you aren't, and bad things happen. Then there are the boyfriends or husbands who get angry or drunk and force themselves on their GF's or wives. The only way to avoid those kinds of rapes is to never be alone with men at all - not really possible, logistically. Even if you try to adopt the conservative Muslim approach of never being alone with a male who isn't a family member or spouse, that doesn't protect you completely. To try to lead a productive life, going to school with men, working with men, living in neighborhoods with men, women are obligated to be around men. Almost always, nothing bad happens. But when it does, I don't think it's helpful to claim the rape wouldn't have happened if the woman hadn't been on that date/ working in that office/living next door to the rapist. Marital rape does not exist. Wives give their consent for sex at the altar or courthouse whether they want it or not. A yes only means yes if it's still a yes throughout the entire act. At any point during the act consent can be revoked, no questions asked. While there are instances of changing their mind or false accusations they are far more outweighed not only by the number of victims but by the number of victims too afraid to come forward for fear of being told they were asking for it or no one believing them because they knew the guy so they must have wanted it. I agree that consent can always be withdrawn at any time. I think false allegations are actually far more widespread than non-reports. Women have the option of, at any time, accusing a man of rape- sometimes even when there's been no sexual contact. As a religious person, my personal view is that this is yet another good reason to wait. Consent obtained at the altar, or at least the courthouse is tough to argue with.
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fishy999
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Post by fishy999 on Sept 14, 2015 20:59:14 GMT -5
Marital rape does not exist. Wives give their consent for sex at the altar or courthouse whether they want it or not. I agree that consent can always be withdrawn at any time. I think false allegations are actually far more widespread than non-reports. Women have the option of, at any time, accusing a man of rape- sometimes even when there's been no sexual contact. As a religious person, my personal view is that this is yet another good reason to wait. Consent obtained at the altar, or at least the courthouse is tough to argue with. Sadly that WAS the case- back when men viewed women as property- and they wrote the laws. The marital rape exception was a real thing. And that kind of backwards ass thinking was at the heart of it- that the wife had a duty to service the husband- and I am getting angry thinking about it! My advice to spousal rapists is that unless you want to risk finding your dick in a field best not try it!
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Tennesseer
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Post by Tennesseer on Sept 14, 2015 21:23:39 GMT -5
Marital rape does not exist. Wives give their consent for sex at the altar or courthouse whether they want it or not. Sadly that WAS the case- back when men viewed women as property- and they wrote the laws. The marital rape exception was a real thing. And that kind of backwards ass thinking was at the heart of it- that the wife had a duty to service the husband- and I am getting angry thinking about it! My advice to spousal rapists is that unless you want to risk finding your dick in a field best not try it! Alas, poor John Bobbitt; you knew it well.
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mmhmm
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Post by mmhmm on Sept 15, 2015 0:37:25 GMT -5
Sadly that WAS the case- back when men viewed women as property- and they wrote the laws. The marital rape exception was a real thing. And that kind of backwards ass thinking was at the heart of it- that the wife had a duty to service the husband- and I am getting angry thinking about it! My advice to spousal rapists is that unless you want to risk finding your dick in a field best not try it! Alas, poor John Bobbitt; you knew it well. I always thought it would have been most - errmmm - entertaining if a dog had latched onto that thing and high-tailed it for the woods.
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Virgil Showlion
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Post by Virgil Showlion on Sept 15, 2015 5:50:58 GMT -5
However, a majority of rapes come from people women know. A co-worker or a fellow student or a neighbor. I believe what Paul is saying is that "know" implies some kind of familiarity with the rapist, which may not be the case. "Knowing" tends to imply having spoken with the individual, knowing their name, knowing something about them, having interacted with them in some way. A looser definition would be "recognize". The number of people I recognize (i.e. for whom I can say "I've seen him at...") is easily five times as large as the number of people I know, hence it does make me curious about which standard the statistic reflects.
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Opti
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Post by Opti on Sept 15, 2015 7:40:43 GMT -5
However, a majority of rapes come from people women know. A co-worker or a fellow student or a neighbor. I believe what Paul is saying is that "know" implies some kind of familiarity with the rapist, which may not be the case. "Knowing" tends to imply having spoken with the individual, knowing their name, knowing something about them, having interacted with them in some way. A looser definition would be "recognize". The number of people I recognize (i.e. for whom I can say "I've seen him at...") is easily five times as large as the number of people I know, hence it does make me curious about which standard the statistic reflects. Paul is making suppostions as he does not know how well they do or do not know their attacker, but he assumes that they hardly know the person at all so we can go back to assuming most rapes are by unknown strangers.
47% of rapists are a friend or acquaintance.1 25% are an intimate.1 5% are a relative.1
rainn.org/get-information/statistics/sexual-assault-offenders
Yes its true we do not know without further study how well the victim knew those in the 47% category, but I think its somewhat crazy to assume most of them are people the victim only knew as names and by sight and rarely if ever talked to the person.
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midjd
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Post by midjd on Sept 15, 2015 8:43:07 GMT -5
I don't think it really even matters if "know" = friend or distant acquaintance. Someone you know on sight only is still up a few notches on the safety measure (for most people) than a complete stranger. Most are more likely to let a recognizable person help with groceries/to their car or do something else to get them alone than if they're approached by a stranger.
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Virgil Showlion
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Post by Virgil Showlion on Sept 15, 2015 15:32:02 GMT -5
I believe what Paul is saying is that "know" implies some kind of familiarity with the rapist, which may not be the case. "Knowing" tends to imply having spoken with the individual, knowing their name, knowing something about them, having interacted with them in some way. A looser definition would be "recognize". The number of people I recognize (i.e. for whom I can say "I've seen him at...") is easily five times as large as the number of people I know, hence it does make me curious about which standard the statistic reflects. Paul is making suppostions as he does not know how well they do or do not know their attacker, but he assumes that they hardly know the person at all so we can go back to assuming most rapes are by unknown strangers.
47% of rapists are a friend or acquaintance.1 25% are an intimate.1 5% are a relative.1
rainn.org/get-information/statistics/sexual-assault-offenders
Yes its true we do not know without further study how well the victim knew those in the 47% category, but I think its somewhat crazy to assume most of them are people the victim only knew as names and by sight and rarely if ever talked to the person.
"Friend", "acquaintance", "intimate", "relative" are all consistent with the narrower definition of "know", hence the word is used appropriately. There is one variable left for all but "relative", which is how long the familiarity has lasted. For example, if a woman meets a guy at 5:00 PM, goes out for dinner, and is assaulted at 11:00 PM, he might be classified as a "friend", "acquaintance", etc. while ostensibly being no different from a stranger.
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