Honda to pay $25M for overcharging minority buyers on loans

[Tennesseer]

Jul 15, 2015 13:13:35 GMT -5 @jma23 said:

Don't the signatories to these auto loans agree to the rates ? 

I am pretty sure the signatories agree to the rates. What the signatories in question don't know/are not aware of is the lower rates being offered to the white signatories.

[Tennesseer]

Jul 15, 2015 16:41:31 GMT -5 @hickle said:

Why didn't Honda charge the higher interest rate to everyone? It would have been more money to them.

Repeat business.

[AgeOfEnlightenmentSCP]

Jul 15, 2015 15:08:44 GMT -5 kittensaver said:

Jul 14, 2015 20:48:25 GMT -5 AgeOfEnlightenmentSCP said:

White male privilege, bitches: I paid .9% on the Civic.

But seriously, this whole thing is probably bullshit.  I'd like to see evidence of the apples-to-apples comparisons- same credit score, same level of education, and a different interest rate.  My guess is that an analysis of good data will show that other factors account for the difference- namely the credit scores and car-buying savvy of the individuals concerned.  But then, I suppose the credit scoring companies are racist, too. 

All this bitching and moaning about woe is me because of racism gets damn old.

I assume you're smart enough to understand the subtleties between "discrimination" and "disparate impact."

And again- I'd like to see the evidence that there was any discrimination at all.  Seems to me we have a wild ass accusation and zip, zero, nadda to back it up. I get why Honda settled- I'm a claims adjuster, I settle bullshit claims for a living.  I just wish that for once, someone would stand up to the bullies, take them to court, have the guts to mount a full-on PR campaign and break these extortionists.

[jkapp]

I also have yet to see what evidence anyone had that a minority race person with a credit score of 700 was charged a higher rate than a "white non-hispanic" (gotta love these bullshit racial categories people keep coming up with) with a credit score of 700 or less.

The evidence may very well be out there, but, again, I have not seen any of it.

[Tennesseer]

Jul 16, 2015 19:42:48 GMT -5 jkapp said:

I also have yet to see what evidence anyone had that a minority race person with a credit score of 700 was charged a higher rate than a "white non-hispanic" (gotta love these bullshit racial categories people keep coming up with) with a credit score of 700 or less.

The evidence may very well be out there, but, again, I have not seen any of it.

Ask for a copy of all the complaints through the Freedom of Information Act.

[Opti]

Jul 16, 2015 19:06:51 GMT -5 AgeOfEnlightenmentSCP said:

Jul 15, 2015 15:08:44 GMT -5 kittensaver said:

I assume you're smart enough to understand the subtleties between "discrimination" and "disparate impact."

And again- I'd like to see the evidence that there was any discrimination at all.  Seems to me we have a wild ass accusation and zip, zero, nadda to back it up. I get why Honda settled- I'm a claims adjuster, I settle bullshit claims for a living.  I just wish that for once, someone would stand up to the bullies, take them to court, have the guts to mount a full-on PR campaign and break these extortionists.

Well, there was just this court case that got settled...

[AgeOfEnlightenmentSCP]

Jul 16, 2015 21:52:38 GMT -5 Opti said:

Jul 16, 2015 19:06:51 GMT -5 AgeOfEnlightenmentSCP said:

And again- I'd like to see the evidence that there was any discrimination at all.  Seems to me we have a wild ass accusation and zip, zero, nadda to back it up. I get why Honda settled- I'm a claims adjuster, I settle bullshit claims for a living.  I just wish that for once, someone would stand up to the bullies, take them to court, have the guts to mount a full-on PR campaign and break these extortionists.

Well, there was just this court case that got settled...

All court cases get settled.  One way, or the other. I'd just like to see the other- for once.

[Opti]

Jul 16, 2015 23:47:46 GMT -5 AgeOfEnlightenmentSCP said:

Jul 16, 2015 21:52:38 GMT -5 Opti said:

Well, there was just this court case that got settled...

All court cases get settled.  One way, or the other. I'd just like to see the other- for once.

The other what? Bottom line, the lawyers argued and won this case. Much like Zimmerman.  Whether you agree or disagree, I think Bills is right. If you really really want to know, you can do the work and find out.

[Deleted]

Jul 15, 2015 15:01:26 GMT -5 happyhoix said:

Jul 15, 2015 13:13:35 GMT -5 @jma23 said:

Don't the signatories to these auto loans agree to the rates ? 

Yes, but when you sign that you accept 1.5% interest, do you know that Jim got 1.6 and John got 1.4?

Usually the ads state "XX interest rate to qualified buyers" and when you get there, they tell you if you qualify for the best rate or not. So if only the people with excellent credit get the 1% interest rate, and you qualify for the 1.4% interest rate (according to them), how do you determine if that's better or worse than what the other guys get?

I'd like to see this data broken down by male/female buyers. I always feel like car dealerships should send me flowers when I buy a car, cause I got screwed for not having a penis. This stems from a car shopping trip when the sales guy spent the whole visit talking to DH about the technical details of the car, then turned to me and asked me what color I liked 'because the ladies are the ones who are concerned about the car color.' 

Yes, I only care if the car is pretty.

Then there was that other car buying trip where I test drove the car, which was a stick shift, and the dealer said "You shift pretty good, for a woman."

Seriously, you don't need a penis to use a stick shift!

Maybe they figure the guys have more of a lifelong practice playing with their "stick shift". So a misconception arises with perceived skillfulness of the male and his ability to use a manual transmission.   I'm firmly in the camp that if you can't afford the car you're buying,  you will have a better chance of being taken advantage of by a lender.  I've never had a car loan, so I really don't have a dog in this fight. From 16 years old and on up, I've always driven what I could comfortably afford to drive. I really don't have much interest in motor vehicles. They're just a transportation tool to me. Salesmen don't like dealing with me. In 2011 when I paid for my DW's new car, the woman taking my check started to ask me questions about where the money is coming from. I simply told her it's none of her business. If she's unsure of the check, call the bank. She did and was very polite after that.   

[Deleted]

Jul 15, 2015 16:44:57 GMT -5 Tennesseer said:

Jul 15, 2015 13:13:35 GMT -5 @jma23 said:

Don't the signatories to these auto loans agree to the rates ? 

I am pretty sure the signatories agree to the rates. What the signatories in question don't know/are not aware of is the lower rates being offered to the white signatories.

Isn't it the buyers responsibility to check all aspects of the deal ?

[OldCoyote]

Jul 15, 2015 16:44:57 GMT -5 Tennesseer said:

Jul 15, 2015 13:13:35 GMT -5 @jma23 said:

Don't the signatories to these auto loans agree to the rates ? 

I am pretty sure the signatories agree to the rates. What the signatories in question don't know/are not aware of is the lower rates being offered to the white signatories.

Many people that sign those contracts have no idea what they signed,  All they know is they now are driving a car,  they have payments.

They can tell what their payment is,   But can't tell the rate of interest.

[Tennesseer]

Jul 17, 2015 12:39:28 GMT -5 @jma23 said:

Jul 15, 2015 16:44:57 GMT -5 Tennesseer said:

I am pretty sure the signatories agree to the rates. What the signatories in question don't know/are not aware of is the lower rates being offered to the white signatories.

Isn't it the buyers responsibility to check all aspects of the deal ?

How is the buyer going to be able to look at the contracts you and I signed and what loan percentage rates we agreed on?

[Deleted]

Jul 17, 2015 12:56:58 GMT -5 Tennesseer said:

Jul 17, 2015 12:39:28 GMT -5 @jma23 said:

Isn't it the buyers responsibility to check all aspects of the deal ?

How is the buyer going to be able to look at the contracts you and I signed and what loan percentage rates we agreed on?

Maybe instead of agreeing to settle with a paid fine (in this case) maybe car loans should have the rates set and controlled by the government.  That fine will just get passed on to the customer.  In answer to your question, I don't know.  I've never had a vehicle loan.

[billisonboard]

Jul 17, 2015 13:09:18 GMT -5 @jma23 said:

... Maybe instead of agreeing to settle with a paid fine (in this case). ...

With regard to the $24 million in restitution for consumers, an administrator will be appointed to locate victims and distribute payments. consumerist.com/2015/07/14/honda-finance-unit-must-pay-24-million-for-charging-higher-interest-to-non-white-borrowers/

[The Walk of the Penguin Mich]

Jul 14, 2015 22:43:35 GMT -5 Opti said:

Jul 14, 2015 20:48:25 GMT -5 AgeOfEnlightenmentSCP said:

White male privilege, bitches: I paid .9% on the Civic.

But seriously, this whole thing is probably bullshit.  I'd like to see evidence of the apples-to-apples comparisons- same credit score, same level of education, and a different interest rate.  My guess is that an analysis of good data will show that other factors account for the difference- namely the credit scores and car-buying savvy of the individuals concerned.  But then, I suppose the credit scoring companies are racist, too. 

All this bitching and moaning about woe is me because of racism gets damn old.

Its called data mining bitches, and I know you are wrong. Ask yourself honestly, try for a min perhaps, how

they came up with different dollar amounts aggregated to race.

But data mining can't give you anything better than a correlation.  Correlation does not equal causation.  

However, if you take a class of minority and stratify it for credit score and compare it to another class stratified for a comparable credit score, then it strengthens the data considerably.  Credit scores are probably the easiest to use, it's hard to put a number on car savvy buying of the individual - that is something that comes along with age and experience.  For instance, when I bought my first car alone, I got screwed on the interest rate, regardless of credit score (which was excellent).

[Deleted]

Jul 17, 2015 14:28:34 GMT -5 billisonboard said:

Jul 17, 2015 13:09:18 GMT -5 @jma23 said:

... Maybe instead of agreeing to settle with a paid fine (in this case). ...

With regard to the $24 million in restitution for consumers, an administrator will be appointed to locate victims and distribute payments. consumerist.com/2015/07/14/honda-finance-unit-must-pay-24-million-for-charging-higher-interest-to-non-white-borrowers 

Sounds like a good plan.

[djAdvocate]

Jul 16, 2015 19:06:51 GMT -5 AgeOfEnlightenmentSCP said:

Jul 15, 2015 15:08:44 GMT -5 kittensaver said:

I assume you're smart enough to understand the subtleties between "discrimination" and "disparate impact."

And again- I'd like to see the evidence that there was any discrimination at all.  Seems to me we have a wild ass accusation and zip, zero, nadda to back it up. I get why Honda settled- I'm a claims adjuster, I settle bullshit claims for a living.  I just wish that for once, someone would stand up to the bullies, take them to court, have the guts to mount a full-on PR campaign and break these extortionists.

oh, they DO.  but they have to weigh the possibility that a JURY would find them guilty, and they would get both publicly and financially crucified for it, against the certainty of payola.  businesses hate uncertainty. 

[djAdvocate]

Jul 16, 2015 19:42:48 GMT -5 jkapp said:

I also have yet to see what evidence anyone had that a minority race person with a credit score of 700 was charged a higher rate than a "white non-hispanic" (gotta love these bullshit racial categories people keep coming up with) with a credit score of 700 or less.

The evidence may very well be out there, but, again, I have not seen any of it.

that racial category was no doubt developed by and for non-hispanic whites. 

[fairlycrazy23]

I wish somebody would do a deep dive on this, I know there is a lot of racism out there, but another headline for this story could be "Honda to pay $25M for undercharging white buyers on loans" And I would think greed would overcome racism.