billisonboard
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Post by billisonboard on Jun 9, 2015 17:54:44 GMT -5
If the other two cops hadn't been right there, would it have been different? There's no way anyone here can answer that, billis. That would require we assume. For what seem to me to be obvious reasons, I don't like to do that. I am looking at this from a risk assessment perspective and keeping the police officer on the force. In my professional world, I teach a concept I refer to as "safety consciousness". While we have some basic guidelines we generally follow, what is more important is to consider "Is what is happening safe?". If you aren't sure, I tell people, "Put yourself up on the witness stand and explain in detail to a jury why you allowed things to continue." If you can do that without breaking into a cold sweat, you are on good ground. If you can't, then you probably should stop the action. If I were the chief of police and kept the guy in the video on the force, I could not explain without that cold sweat to a jury why I had done so after viewing him pull that gun if I were testifying in a case where he shot someone.
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djAdvocate
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Post by djAdvocate on Jun 9, 2015 19:13:47 GMT -5
cop resigned, if that was not already mentioned here.
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EVT1
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Post by EVT1 on Jun 9, 2015 20:41:06 GMT -5
Don't blame him for resigning- I would no part of this shitstorm either.
Maybe I am biased- maybe I am not aware of police tactics- but just on first view it looked like when he pulled his pistol a couple other cops thought oh shit and diffused the situation. A lot of cops argue they saw the same threat and went in to help- but when you watch it it sure looks like they were getting into the middle of it to stop things from escalating into a shooting.
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EVT1
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Post by EVT1 on Jun 9, 2015 20:59:24 GMT -5
I have cred on this- I have ran, jumped fences, been caught during parties where the cops show up- not community pools but at pools where the parents were out of town. I have seen assholes do donuts in a front yard, naked girls in public, cops come in the house where there were kegs of beer and not a single time have a witnessed a gun drawn.
BUT- I have had cops point guns at me twice in my life. The first time is when me and some friends were coming out of the woods after going shooting- one of the neighbors called in because- kids with guns and all. We used to walk a trail that followed a creek to the river and we used to target shoot- beer cans, paint cans, etc. We came out of the woods and two cop cars were parked with officers pointing guns at us- I was holding a .30-06 and had a pistol in my pocket- of course this was a high income area and we were all white just like the cops- and of course not even a juvenile summons. The police politely explained than next time we should go shooting farther away from the houses.
2nd time I had cop point a gun at me- I was at my friends house and locked my keys in my car- we were trying to hit the lock rod with a coathanger and someone called the cops- when the cop showed up we were inside getting high- I saw the gun go by the window and next thing you know we were ordered to sit on the couch and my friend had to prove he lived there by showing the cop his license, family pictures, etc. No arrest for the weed or the bong on the coffee table. No confiscation either. #White Privilege
100% true
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happyhoix
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Post by happyhoix on Jun 10, 2015 9:25:17 GMT -5
There's no way anyone here can answer that, billis. That would require we assume. For what seem to me to be obvious reasons, I don't like to do that. I am looking at this from a risk assessment perspective and keeping the police officer on the force. In my professional world, I teach a concept I refer to as "safety consciousness". While we have some basic guidelines we generally follow, what is more important is to consider "Is what is happening safe?". If you aren't sure, I tell people, "Put yourself up on the witness stand and explain in detail to a jury why you allowed things to continue." If you can do that without breaking into a cold sweat, you are on good ground. If you can't, then you probably should stop the action. If I were the chief of police and kept the guy in the video on the force, I could not explain without that cold sweat to a jury why I had done so after viewing him pull that gun if I were testifying in a case where he shot someone. I agree with you that this was not behavior I would want to see my employees engaged in, if this cop worked for me. If he hadn't resigned I would have put him on desk duty until he got lots of extra training in how to respond in these kinds of tense situations. The problem is the pool of applicants for police jobs is heavily weighted towards people who like to carry firearms and boss people around. Timid, low key people never apply for those kinds of jobs. If you hire one of the tightly wound guys, and then put him in a situation where there are up to 70 unruly teens, some of them screaming insults, some of them refusing to disperse as directed, chances are good he will respond too aggressively. I don't know what the answer is - better psychological assessments pre-hire, better training, maybe training in more real-life type situations where they have to make good decisions on the fly. I'm sure the police do tons of training on handling drunk mobs of adults, or terrorist threats, or school shootings, but I don't know how much time and effort they put into practising for these kinds of situations - rowdy teens behaving stupidly.
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happyhoix
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Post by happyhoix on Jun 10, 2015 9:28:46 GMT -5
I got another white privilege story - an idiot I used to work with liked to take women out on dates, get plastered and then drive home too fast in his BMW. Once, driving up the mountain that has the second highest property value homes in our area, he ran his BMW off the road into a tree. Fortunately both he and his date were ok, car was upside down and totaled. When the cop got there, he told him "I can smell the alcohol on you, but you've already got enough problems so I won't do a breathalyzer on you." # White Privilege
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deziloooooo
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Post by deziloooooo on Jun 10, 2015 18:23:42 GMT -5
Don't blame him for resigning- I would no part of this shitstorm either.
Maybe I am biased- maybe I am not aware of police tactics- but just on first view it looked like when he pulled his pistol a couple other cops thought oh shit and diffused the situation. A lot of cops argue they saw the same threat and went in to help- but when you watch it it sure looks like they were getting into the middle of it to stop things from escalating into a shooting. I will try to find it but his supervisor..chief ..cut him absolutely no slack whats so ever..claimed he was out of control..by video..when he arrived and didn't let up..the other 15 officers who were there did their job by the book..against all department policy..the one person arrested and in custody...released, no charges...considering charges against the one resigned..decision not yet made...he was a veteran of the State Police as well as ten years local police...a rookie he was not... My thought was..one or two of those fifteen should have been a superior to ..and even if not...it is up to the others to take over ..quietly ..but with #'s..defuse the situation....I think that is what is missing in many of these situations...To go against a officer who is out of control unless deadlyn force is being threatened and ven there..it seems that is a no on..seems it's us against them even when "us" is wrong...
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EVT1
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Post by EVT1 on Jun 10, 2015 19:19:14 GMT -5
So what now?
The man resigned, admitted he was out of control and came from some hard calls before hand, and has to hide over death threats.
There is no reason to sue the guy or the department IMO- no reason to threaten him, etc. People want some accountability- he took responsibility for his actions, nobody was injured- so I think that should end it. I hope he was sincere and if so I can respect that.
What I want to know is who instigated all of it, who that fat guy was in the middle of it, who the females were that were in the hair pulling crap, what the 911 caller stated, etc.
No matter what that barrel roll is going to follow him for life
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deziloooooo
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Post by deziloooooo on Jun 11, 2015 2:22:48 GMT -5
So what now?
The man resigned, admitted he was out of control and came from some hard calls before hand, and has to hide over death threats.
There is no reason to sue the guy or the department IMO- no reason to threaten him, etc. People want some accountability- he took responsibility for his actions, nobody was injured- so I think that should end it. I hope he was sincere and if so I can respect that.
What I want to know is who instigated all of it, who that fat guy was in the middle of it, who the females were that were in the hair pulling crap, what the 911 caller stated, etc.
No matter what that barrel roll is going to follow him for life TYour correct...1st call of the day was a suicide in front of the family...then another potential suicide..kid was going to jump off roof at home..didn't wwant to make this call but heard violence involved so went to the area... According to article I read ...if there was any charge at all possible to be made it was a very minor misdemenor one that just may have been made..not saying it would stick..so your right...he resigned ..end of story...only 42 years old ...has a whole life ahead of him..family and kids involved too...
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mmhmm
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Post by mmhmm on Jun 11, 2015 15:27:34 GMT -5
And, in further news: Texas Teacher Fired
This racist beotch really hanged herself with a short rope! What she posted on FaceBook (quoted in the article above) was abominable, IMO. This creature was teaching 4th graders! This is when the internet really comes in handy. FaceBook and Twitter literally exploded over this one. The result was the firing of this disgusting waste of DNA after people who read about this inundated the Lubbock School District with complaints. It's hard to believe such people still exist!
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happyhoix
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Post by happyhoix on Jun 11, 2015 15:35:39 GMT -5
I agree it's unfortunate this one instance in his career (I assume this was the only one) has totally screwed it up and the death threats are really ridiculous.
The kids were having an out of control party, annoying the other people at the pool, did not disperse when requested by the pool security, and got mouthy when the cops showed up. No they did not deserve to be thrown to the ground and have a gun drawn on them, but if they left when requested, or sat down quietly on the ground when ordered, that wouldn't have happened, so both the cop and the kids could have behaved a lot better. The cop, being a professional and an adult, gets more of the blame, but not all of it.
Probably the parents will file a lawsuit, but I would be surprised if they won. Juries are generally sympathetic to cops, and there was no real harm done to the kids, other than getting scared.
I'm betting the pool suddenly has a whole bunch of new rules regarding people having parties there.
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mmhmm
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Post by mmhmm on Jun 11, 2015 15:49:20 GMT -5
In further news, one of the blond women seen in a physical altercation with a 15-year-old girl at the pool party has been put on administrative leave by her employer while further investigation is done with regard to her part in the ensuing incident. Hair-Puller on Administrative Leave
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Post by Deleted on Jun 11, 2015 16:02:53 GMT -5
In further news, one of the blond women seen in a physical altercation with a 15-year-old girl at the pool party has been put on administrative leave by her employer while further investigation is done with regard to her part in the ensuing incident. Hair-Puller on Administrative LeaveGood. I was hoping they would be able to do something about the instigators. Maybe the kids were being loud because it was too big a group, but those women had absolutely no place launching into verbal attacks & physically attacking the girl. Don't care how Diva Obnoxious the girl was, those women could and should have walked away instead of inciting a riot.
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djAdvocate
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Post by djAdvocate on Jun 11, 2015 16:07:11 GMT -5
what happened to the right to peaceably assemble? is fighting "peacable assembly? if the cops CAUSE the fight, then YES.
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djAdvocate
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Post by djAdvocate on Jun 11, 2015 16:16:12 GMT -5
The story I've heard is that there was fighting between people (physical) before the police arrived. This means they weren't "peaceably assembling".
That said, this doesn't excuse the officer's action, but does take away the narrative that they were standing around feeding orphans and playing checkers when the pigs rolled up on them. i have read nothing of the sort. but i will freely admit that i have ONLY seen the video of this "incident" which was pretty disturbing.
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mmhmm
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Post by mmhmm on Jun 11, 2015 17:40:29 GMT -5
There's another video, taken before the policeman got involved, dj. Two rather large blonde women were fighting with a young girl. One of them had the girl by the hair and was pulling at her. There's more to this than what's shown in the video you've seen.
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NastyWoman
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Post by NastyWoman on Jun 11, 2015 19:32:18 GMT -5
The story I've heard is that there was fighting between people (physical) before the police arrived. This means they weren't "peaceably assembling".
That said, this doesn't excuse the officer's action, but does take away the narrative that they were standing around feeding orphans and playing checkers when the pigs rolled up on them. In the story I read it said exactly the same " there was fighting between people", it also said that (a) the white woman pulling the girls hair had started the physical altercation, and (b) she was never even questioned by the cops. It was the only black "tresspassers" who were handcuffed by the cops. Even the kid who taped the whole situation claimed white privilige: he is white and according to him he could walk around all over the place without so much as an eyebrow raised while his friends were made to sit/lie down. And an invited party guest is NOT a tresspasser. If any of the kids has done anything wrong it would have been the host of the party who invited all the kids over. As a guest you need to behave respectfully but you can't be removed from a party by a neighbor that doesn't like you to be around in their "rarified" environment. JMO.
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