djAdvocate
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Post by djAdvocate on May 22, 2015 11:17:18 GMT -5
Any job I ever took I took because it met my needs, including wage. What someone else makes had nothing to do with my decision. If I did my job well I expected to be rewarded over time. If I had not been adequately rewarded, I'd have left. At no time did anyone else's wage, minimum or otherwise, enter into my decision-making process. How can someone else's wage not enter your decision making process? If you know the average nurse in your hospital with x years experience earns $y, then it seems like you should surely care that you are being adequately paid in comparison to your peers. I know I care what others make so that I can gauge if I am fairly paid. I can't just decide my own worth without knowing economic factors at play and the worth of others. Otherwise I could just make up some number as my worth and then either never find a job or spend my entire career underpaid. i have never considered anyone else's pay when getting a job. NEVER. so, i don't really know how. it is just a fact of me. i always took jobs i wanted to do, and i didn't care about the pay.
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mmhmm
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Post by mmhmm on May 22, 2015 12:16:48 GMT -5
Any job I ever took I took because it met my needs, including wage. What someone else makes had nothing to do with my decision. If I did my job well I expected to be rewarded over time. If I had not been adequately rewarded, I'd have left. At no time did anyone else's wage, minimum or otherwise, enter into my decision-making process. How can someone else's wage not enter your decision making process? If you know the average nurse in your hospital with x years experience earns $y, then it seems like you should surely care that you are being adequately paid in comparison to your peers. I know I care what others make so that I can gauge if I am fairly paid. I can't just decide my own worth without knowing economic factors at play and the worth of others. Otherwise I could just make up some number as my worth and then either never find a job or spend my entire career underpaid. No, Angel, I don't care about what I'm paid in comparison to others. I don't think that way. I know what I believe to be a fair salary for my skills and abilities. I know what I need to maintain my lifestyle. Those were the factors that went into my decision process when considering a position. It's not difficult to figure out what's a fair salary for a given job in a given area. Most of us know these things and where our skills and experience stand amongst our peers. I don't have to know what Sally makes to know what I'm worth. Frankly, I don't care what Sally makes. If Sally's happy, and I'm happy, all's right with my world.
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Angel!
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Post by Angel! on May 22, 2015 13:47:01 GMT -5
How can someone else's wage not enter your decision making process? If you know the average nurse in your hospital with x years experience earns $y, then it seems like you should surely care that you are being adequately paid in comparison to your peers. I know I care what others make so that I can gauge if I am fairly paid. I can't just decide my own worth without knowing economic factors at play and the worth of others. Otherwise I could just make up some number as my worth and then either never find a job or spend my entire career underpaid. i have never considered anyone else's pay when getting a job. NEVER. so, i don't really know how. it is just a fact of me. i always took jobs i wanted to do, and i didn't care about the pay. And I care immensely about pay. Every year I check everyone's salaries to see where I fall and then compare my skills to see where I should be when I fill out my review (which has a question on compensation). I want to know where I fall. If I'm overpaid for my position, skills, and billing rate, that makes me high risk for layoffs because I cost the company more than I provide value, especially when compared to others. If I'm underpaid, then I'm just screwing myself. And I don't buy people do what they love despite the money. Seems like at least half the country hates their jobs with a passion. Some people do what they love despite the money, some work only for money, and most fall somewhere in the middle. Frankly, this country is missing out on a lot of good teachers because the pay is too low. I was listening to a freakonomics podcast that discussed how much better our education system would be if we were willing to pay more. Most other countries pay their teachers much more than the US when compared to other professions. My point being, you are going to get even less when the 4 year degree that costs you tens of thousands doesn't get you paid any more than flipping burgers or working at a pet store. Yes, some have a passion and will do it whatever the pay, but many aren't that passionate.
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djAdvocate
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Post by djAdvocate on May 22, 2015 14:08:10 GMT -5
i have never considered anyone else's pay when getting a job. NEVER. so, i don't really know how. it is just a fact of me. i always took jobs i wanted to do, and i didn't care about the pay. And I care immensely about pay. Every year I check everyone's salaries to see where I fall and then compare my skills to see where I should be when I fill out my review (which has a question on compensation). I want to know where I fall. If I'm overpaid for my position, skills, and billing rate, that makes me high risk for layoffs because I cost the company more than I provide value, especially when compared to others. If I'm underpaid, then I'm just screwing myself. And I don't buy people do what they love despite the money. Seems like at least half the country hates their jobs with a passion. Some people do what they love despite the money, some work only for money, and most fall somewhere in the middle. Frankly, this country is missing out on a lot of good teachers because the pay is too low. I was listening to a freakonomics podcast that discussed how much better our education system would be if we were willing to pay more. Most other countries pay their teachers much more than the US when compared to other professions. My point being, you are going to get even less when the 4 year degree that costs you tens of thousands doesn't get you paid any more than flipping burgers or working at a pet store. Yes, some have a passion and will do it whatever the pay, but many aren't that passionate. i think it is sad that you think that people don't do things for the love of them. but it really is a fact. i will go one step further. everybody i know does what they do because they love it. some of them are well compensated for it, and others poorly- but those that are poorly paid refuse to change jobs, because it is what they love doing. one of them is a social worker in Seattle. she could make much better money in the private sector. another guy is a chef in the same town. he could do a million things that paid better. my friend Jesse is the best sax player i have ever met. he is lucky to make $600/month doing it. and sure- that pays for his food and gas, and some minor instrument repair. but he needs a part time job to pay rent, and he would quit in a second if he could do better at music. EVERYONE i know is like that. i found out that i get paid about 2/3 what most CEO's make a while back. i don't give a crap. now, i am not saying that there are NOT people out there that are motivated by money. i get that there are. but don't doubt for a second that there are those that never even consider it- that take what comes to them, do the best job they can, and get on with life. as to pay, i have mentioned many times that our lowest paid employee makes $17.75/hr. that recently changed. we hired a guy from his dogshit job at Pep Boys, and we are paying him $11-12/hr. he will get a raise soon, tho. he is a good worker.
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Angel!
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Post by Angel! on May 22, 2015 14:19:53 GMT -5
I think the people you know are not the norm. A lot of that may be because you are likely friends with them because you have a lot in common - such as enjoying your jobs.
I moderately enjoy my job, but I would quit if I won a massive lottery. I've quit two jobs over money and benefits - one of which I loved, but couldn't afford to work there. The other I enjoyed, but it was too time consuming and stressful for the low pay and craps benefits.
I could be wrong, but the number of people you see complaining about their job day in and day out leads me to believe that loving your job or even moderately liking your job is not the norm.
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mmhmm
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Post by mmhmm on May 22, 2015 14:25:55 GMT -5
Then you don't have a very good understanding of many people, Angel!. I could have made more money had I chosen to pursue strictly working as a nurse practitioner. I didn't choose to do that because I loved my position of nursing supervisor at the hospital. That's what I loved to do. I chose that as my primary position and nurse practitioner work as a secondary use of my capabilities. Everyone doesn't think alike and there are those of us who really do love what we do. Who knows what the "norm" is? I guess there are a lot of people who would prefer not to work at all if they didn't have to do so. There are also those who would work at something even if they did win the lottery. There are those who retire and continue to work because they enjoy the challenge, or whatever. Also, people like to gripe and griping about one's work is an easy way to let out those feelings. MOO
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djAdvocate
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Post by djAdvocate on May 22, 2015 15:27:15 GMT -5
I think the people you know are not the norm. A lot of that may be because you are likely friends with them because you have a lot in common - such as enjoying your jobs. i don't know if there IS a norm. but what i am trying to tell you is that people who do work for the love of it EXIST.I moderately enjoy my job, but I would quit if I won a massive lottery. I've quit two jobs over money and benefits - one of which I loved, but couldn't afford to work there. The other I enjoyed, but it was too time consuming and stressful for the low pay and craps benefits. I could be wrong, but the number of people you see complaining about their job day in and day out leads me to believe that loving your job or even moderately liking your job is not the norm. i have 1 FT and 2 PT jobs. if i won the lottery, i would scale back the FT job to PT, and increase one of the PT jobs to FT, or as close to it as i could manage. but i love what i do far too much to quit anything. even this stupid ass board.
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Post by Angel! on May 22, 2015 16:22:24 GMT -5
I think the people you know are not the norm. A lot of that may be because you are likely friends with them because you have a lot in common - such as enjoying your jobs. i don't know if there IS a norm. but what i am trying to tell you is that people who do work for the love of it EXIST.I moderately enjoy my job, but I would quit if I won a massive lottery. I've quit two jobs over money and benefits - one of which I loved, but couldn't afford to work there. The other I enjoyed, but it was too time consuming and stressful for the low pay and craps benefits. I could be wrong, but the number of people you see complaining about their job day in and day out leads me to believe that loving your job or even moderately liking your job is not the norm. i have 1 FT and 2 PT jobs. if i won the lottery, i would scale back the FT job to PT, and increase one of the PT jobs to FT, or as close to it as i could manage. but i love what i do far too much to quit anything. even this stupid ass board. Of course those people exist. I just question how many teach because they love to. I don't believe there would be the same number as today who chose to take out 10s in thousands in loans if it meant ending up with the same wage as tons of other jobs that don't require the degree. There has to be some sort of increase seen in other jobs, the same forces that were at work when these jobs ended up at higher than minimum wage to begin with. For example there is a greenhouse/factory about 20 miles outside of town here with 100+ employees. They pay $10-$12/hour. Not because it is skilled labor or anything, but because you can't get people to commute that far and work that hard for 10-12 hours days (with no OT pay) without paying above minimum wage. Places like that aren't going to make it just bumping to $15 because now there is no incentive to work there over a local place and people won't make the commute or put up with hours. So they have to go higher. There is going to be a whole ripple effect among all low paying jobs. And I believe that will extend to jobs like teaching, social work, etc. It will have to just to attract enough people to those jobs/professions
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djAdvocate
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Post by djAdvocate on May 22, 2015 17:09:50 GMT -5
i have 1 FT and 2 PT jobs. if i won the lottery, i would scale back the FT job to PT, and increase one of the PT jobs to FT, or as close to it as i could manage. but i love what i do far too much to quit anything. even this stupid ass board. Of course those people exist. I just question how many teach because they love to. I don't believe there would be the same number as today who chose to take out 10s in thousands in loans if it meant ending up with the same wage as tons of other jobs that don't require the degree. not to be a Richard, but why else would anyone teach? for the massive income? the summer vacations? the high public esteem?There has to be some sort of increase seen in other jobs, the same forces that were at work when these jobs ended up at higher than minimum wage to begin with. For example there is a greenhouse/factory about 20 miles outside of town here with 100+ employees. They pay $10-$12/hour. Not because it is skilled labor or anything, but because you can't get people to commute that far and work that hard for 10-12 hours days (with no OT pay) without paying above minimum wage. Places like that aren't going to make it just bumping to $15 because now there is no incentive to work there over a local place and people won't make the commute or put up with hours. So they have to go higher. There is going to be a whole ripple effect among all low paying jobs. And I believe that will extend to jobs like teaching, social work, etc. It will have to just to attract enough people to those jobs/professions i have to think about that example for a while. i also have to ask myself how concerned i am for situations like that.
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Post by Value Buy on May 25, 2015 18:16:58 GMT -5
Your career was as a nurse. Were you unionized? The union surely cared if whether Joe Blow in the medical field received a pay increase. When it came to contract renewal, the union always had stats on what everyone else got, reasoning why their members deserved a new compensation rate based on that issue, job requirements, and inflation. Not whether their members deserved it or not. Nursing was my second career, and no - we weren't unionized. I don't care, therefore, what "the union" might think, or want. I make my decisions. I neither need, nor want a middle-man. You say you do not care what the unions might think or want. How do you stand with the SEIU and their attacks for a $15ph minimum pay? Do the people they are backing who are non-union employees deserve $15 an hour? I bet you do care.
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Post by EVT1 on May 25, 2015 18:39:30 GMT -5
SEIU "attacks"?
What do unions have to do with anything? IMO if we went to a living minimum wage and mandated certain minimum benefits under law like other countries do (vacation, sick time, etc.) I would argue there would not be much of a need for unions. Also IMO anyone putting 40 hours a week is worth a lot more than the current minimum wage. $15? Maybe- depends on the cost of living.
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Post by Value Buy on May 25, 2015 18:47:16 GMT -5
SEIU "attacks"?
What do unions have to do with anything? IMO if we went to a living minimum wage and mandated certain minimum benefits under law like other countries do (vacation, sick time, etc.) I would argue there would not be much of a need for unions. Also IMO anyone putting 40 hours a week is worth a lot more than the current minimum wage. $15? Maybe- depends on the cost of living.
Tell that to the Teamsters and Auto Unions, among others.
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mmhmm
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Post by mmhmm on May 25, 2015 20:28:57 GMT -5
Nursing was my second career, and no - we weren't unionized. I don't care, therefore, what "the union" might think, or want. I make my decisions. I neither need, nor want a middle-man. You say you do not care what the unions might think or want. How do you stand with the SEIU and their attacks for a $15ph minimum pay? Do the people they are backing who are non-union employees deserve $15 an hour? I bet you do care. You bet wrongly. I do not care. This does not have anything to do with me and I don't have a driving need to cram my nose into everything that goes on. I was never a union member and never wished to be. I worked my way, where I wished to work, in the way I wished to work. I negotiated my own pay. If I was satisfied with my remuneration, and my employer was paying me as promised, I had no problem. If things changed, I renegotiated. If, at any time, I became unsatisfied, I left. It's really quite simple.
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Post by EVT1 on May 25, 2015 22:47:02 GMT -5
SEIU "attacks"?
What do unions have to do with anything? IMO if we went to a living minimum wage and mandated certain minimum benefits under law like other countries do (vacation, sick time, etc.) I would argue there would not be much of a need for unions. Also IMO anyone putting 40 hours a week is worth a lot more than the current minimum wage. $15? Maybe- depends on the cost of living.
Tell that to the Teamsters and Auto Unions, among others. Tell what to them exactly?
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Post by Miss Tequila on May 28, 2015 19:11:48 GMT -5
I've never understood the mind-set that says: "Joe Blow got a raise so I should get one, too." That just doesn't make sense to me. If you're being paid enough to support your lifestyle, and are being paid what you agreed to accept for the position you hold, what difference does it make to you if the janitor gets a pay-raise? Personally, I'd be happy for the bloke, congratulate him, and move on. If you, on the other hand, aren't being paid what you believe you should be paid for the job you're doing, why haven't you done something about that problem before the janitor got his raise? The only thing that's really your responsibility is you, your pay, your lifestyle, and your ambitions. At least, that's how I see it. Because what I need to live has no correlation to what my skills are worth to an employer And if Joe Blow isn't happy with his minimum wage job, he should sharpen his skills and search out a higher wage
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djAdvocate
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Post by djAdvocate on May 28, 2015 21:40:39 GMT -5
I've never understood the mind-set that says: "Joe Blow got a raise so I should get one, too." That just doesn't make sense to me. If you're being paid enough to support your lifestyle, and are being paid what you agreed to accept for the position you hold, what difference does it make to you if the janitor gets a pay-raise? Personally, I'd be happy for the bloke, congratulate him, and move on. If you, on the other hand, aren't being paid what you believe you should be paid for the job you're doing, why haven't you done something about that problem before the janitor got his raise? The only thing that's really your responsibility is you, your pay, your lifestyle, and your ambitions. At least, that's how I see it. Because what I need to live has no correlation to what my skills are worth to an employer And if Joe Blow isn't happy with his minimum wage job, he should sharpen his skills and search out a higher wage would you be in favor of lowering the minimum wage to 1/3 of poverty standards, Tequila?
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Post by EVT1 on May 28, 2015 23:32:18 GMT -5
I've never understood the mind-set that says: "Joe Blow got a raise so I should get one, too." That just doesn't make sense to me. If you're being paid enough to support your lifestyle, and are being paid what you agreed to accept for the position you hold, what difference does it make to you if the janitor gets a pay-raise? Personally, I'd be happy for the bloke, congratulate him, and move on. If you, on the other hand, aren't being paid what you believe you should be paid for the job you're doing, why haven't you done something about that problem before the janitor got his raise? The only thing that's really your responsibility is you, your pay, your lifestyle, and your ambitions. At least, that's how I see it. Because what I need to live has no correlation to what my skills are worth to an employer And if Joe Blow isn't happy with his minimum wage job, he should sharpen his skills and search out a higher wage What YOU need to live has no such correlation with an employer. When figuring out what a minimum wage should be YOUR needs are not part of the equation.
And if all of the 'Joe Blows' take your advice and find better jobs then who is going to fill the minimum wage jobs then? No such thing as a nation of CEO's. No such thing as a nation without a shitload of low wage jobs that have to be done. Maybe you need to show a little respect for Joe Blow that does the shit you wouldn't do at your current wage
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Post by djAdvocate on May 29, 2015 10:53:36 GMT -5
Because what I need to live has no correlation to what my skills are worth to an employer And if Joe Blow isn't happy with his minimum wage job, he should sharpen his skills and search out a higher wage What YOU need to live has no such correlation with an employer. When figuring out what a minimum wage should be YOUR needs are not part of the equation.
And if all of the 'Joe Blows' take your advice and find better jobs then who is going to fill the minimum wage jobs then? No such thing as a nation of CEO's. No such thing as a nation without a shitload of low wage jobs that have to be done. Maybe you need to show a little respect for Joe Blow that does the shit you wouldn't do at your current wage
this is an extremely important point. when the FMW was created, it was created as a LIVING WAGE. the idea was that people would not work if they could not, insodoing, afford a lifestyle that would keep them off the dole. if we are now treating FMW as something less, then we should at least have a national dialog about the consequences of that (which is that people will either not work, and go on the dole, or will work AND be on the dole- or that they will turn to crime or the underground economy ala Breaking Bad to survive).
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Post by zibazinski on May 30, 2015 7:33:36 GMT -5
I don't even know teenagers that work for minimum wage. Mine never did. But those jobs are meant to be stepping stones to other jobs, not forever jobs. Expecting to raise a family on a 40 hour minimum wage job is ridiculous.
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Post by djAdvocate on May 30, 2015 12:17:29 GMT -5
I don't even know teenagers that work for minimum wage. Mine never did. But those jobs are meant to be stepping stones to other jobs, not forever jobs. Expecting to raise a family on a 40 hour minimum wage job is ridiculous. what you say might be true, but it is NOT why the FMW was created. it was created as a LIVING WAGE. we can argue about whether that "living" is for individuals, or families, but it is NOT created as a "starter wage" as so many here seem to think.
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Post by EVT1 on Jun 1, 2015 21:17:40 GMT -5
Looks like CA is going to fix the minimum wage once and for all- and the usual arguments are out in force:
www.washingtonpost.com/national/california-senate-approves-another-minimum-wage-hike/2015/06/01/fb8fe8d8-08c3-11e5-951e-8e15090d64ae_story.html
The California Senate on Monday approved a plan to again raise the state’s minimum wage, lifting it to $13 an hour in 2017, then tying it to the rate of inflation after that.
“Full-time workers in this state should not be forced onto public assistance simply because they earn the minimum wage,” Leno said in a statement. Senators approved the bill on a 23-15 vote, with Republicans opposed, sending it to the state Assembly.
And if course in the face of all the evidence to the contrary:
The California Chamber of Commerce has labeled Leno’s bill as a “job killer.” Sen. Tom Berryhill, R-Twain Harte, said the minimum wage is not intended to support families, but as a “startup wage for kids.” “This wage was made for McDonald’s and Burger King, for kids to get involved in a first job,” he said.
I wish we could do it federally and never have to argue about it again- fix it, tie it to inflation, and move on.
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Post by djAdvocate on Jun 1, 2015 21:36:47 GMT -5
Tom Berryhill is absolutely wrong. the MW was not created as a starter wage. i don't really even know what that term means. i would like to hear someone define that. is a person making a "starter wage" supposed to live in a gutter? how long is he supposed to live in a gutter?
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Post by EVT1 on Jun 1, 2015 21:45:59 GMT -5
He should visit McDonalds and Burger King sometime and look at all of the "kids" working there
Last time I went I was served by an obvious senior citizen- but we can play ball- we can exempt kids. I wonder if they can find enough of them to handle it all- and I would pity the manager having to run a dinner rush with a crew of part time kids making jack- or worse leave the place in charge of one of them.
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Post by djAdvocate on Jun 1, 2015 21:55:33 GMT -5
the state is about to adopt a $13MW and index it to inflation. i am pretty certain it will pass.
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Post by Deleted on Jun 1, 2015 22:58:38 GMT -5
Not saying that I agree or disagree with an increase in MW... but... I wonder how they are planning to implement the "indexed to inflation" aspect.
Is there a "study" done/released on January 2nd, and then wages must be increased no later than January 3rd?
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Post by djAdvocate on Jun 1, 2015 23:23:04 GMT -5
Not saying that I agree or disagree with an increase in MW... but... I wonder how they are planning to implement the "indexed to inflation" aspect. Is there a "study" done/released on January 2nd, and then wages must be increased no later than January 3rd? i have not looked at the bill, but i think the index will be staggered by either 30 or 60 days. so, the (12) month review period will end either October 31st or November 30th.
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Post by formerroomate99 on Jun 2, 2015 0:06:14 GMT -5
Tom Berryhill is absolutely wrong. the MW was not created as a starter wage. i don't really even know what that term means. i would like to hear someone define that. is a person making a "starter wage" supposed to live in a gutter? how long is he supposed to live in a gutter? Not the gutter. But in most of this country, it isn't that hard to live on MW if you're willing to live with roommates and not drive new cars. Obviously, MW needs to be higher in HCOL areas.
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EVT1
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Post by EVT1 on Jun 2, 2015 0:06:50 GMT -5
Does it not amount to a COLA at that point? Companies have been doing that forever- at least the good ones
If the minimum wage had been set up like this originally nobody would have noticed and the middle class would be very vibrant right now instead of treading water. Whenever you hear shit like- we can't raise prices- you are on notice bullshit is afoot. It is all based on the minimum and competition- Wall Mart can't raise prices 1% because of their competitors- but if they could they would not spend that 1% raising the wages of the line workers- they would pay it out to management and shareholders- but mostly management.
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EVT1
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Joined: Dec 30, 2010 16:22:42 GMT -5
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Post by EVT1 on Jun 10, 2015 19:50:30 GMT -5
www.ocregister.com/articles/wage-665647-minimum-increases.html
Officials have given final approval to an ordinance that makes Los Angeles the largest city in the U.S. to gradually raise the minimum wage to $15 an hour. The City Council voted 12-1 in favor of the increase Wednesday and forwarded it to Mayor Eric Garcetti. His office says he plans to sign it Saturday. The ordinance boosts the wage to $10.50 in July 2016, followed by annual increases to $12, $13.25, $14.25 and $15. Small businesses and certain nonprofits get an extra year to phase in the increases.
I guess Walmart and McDonalds will be closing up shop (Actually I could see Walmart do it to make a statement)
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djAdvocate
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only posting when the mood strikes me.
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Post by djAdvocate on Jun 10, 2015 22:04:27 GMT -5
www.ocregister.com/articles/wage-665647-minimum-increases.html
Officials have given final approval to an ordinance that makes Los Angeles the largest city in the U.S. to gradually raise the minimum wage to $15 an hour. The City Council voted 12-1 in favor of the increase Wednesday and forwarded it to Mayor Eric Garcetti. His office says he plans to sign it Saturday. The ordinance boosts the wage to $10.50 in July 2016, followed by annual increases to $12, $13.25, $14.25 and $15. Small businesses and certain nonprofits get an extra year to phase in the increases.
I guess Walmart and McDonalds will be closing up shop (Actually I could see Walmart do it to make a statement)
Costco will eat them alive, if they do.
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