jkapp
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Post by jkapp on May 22, 2015 16:25:40 GMT -5
Country V...this country has good schools, happy population, and hefty social/welfare programs. In fact, the public benefits are so good, nearly 20% of the population refuses to work and just lives off of those benefits. So from your blind support of social programs, I can't imagine you would object to that. Do you? first of all, i don't know where you get 20% second, i don't agree that they just "live off" benefits. in my experience, they have a lot of trouble living off them, and don't abuse them. third, i don't blindly support welfare. i have stated my position on it many times. i think that welfare should be a safety net first, and secondly a helping hand to help people transition from one place to another in their lives, and nothing more. anything outside that does not meet with my approval. i think that answers your question, but if not, tough shit. it was not intended to do anything other than piss me off, as far as i can tell. www.nytimes.com/2013/04/21/world/europe/danes-rethink-a-welfare-state-ample-to-a-fault.html?_r=0
In 2012, a little over 2.6 million people between the ages of 15 and 64 were working in Denmark, 47 percent of the total population and 73 percent of the 15- to 64-year-olds. (which means over 20% are not working)
...But many experts say a more basic problem is the proportion of Danes who are not participating in the work force at all — be they dawdling university students, young pensioners or welfare recipients like Carina who lean on hefty government support. ($2700 per month "support")
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jkapp
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Post by jkapp on May 22, 2015 16:27:49 GMT -5
Ohhh noooo....another slap in the face from the "Affordable" Care Act
www.msn.com/en-us/money/insurance/health-insurers-seek-hefty-rate-boosts/ar-BBk6wKt
Health Insurers Seek Hefty Rate Boosts
Major insurers in some states are proposing hefty rate boosts for plans sold under the federal health law, setting the stage for an intense debate this summer over the law’s impact.
In New Mexico, market leader Health Care Service Corp. is asking for an average jump of 51.6% in premiums for 2016. The biggest insurer in Tennessee, BlueCross BlueShield of Tennessee, has requested an average 36.3% increase. In Maryland, market leader CareFirst BlueCross BlueShield wants to raise rates 30.4% across its products. Moda Health, the largest insurer on the Oregon health exchange, seeks an average boost of around 25%.
All of them cite high medical costs incurred by people newly enrolled under the Affordable Care Act.
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djAdvocate
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Post by djAdvocate on May 22, 2015 17:12:06 GMT -5
first of all, i don't know where you get 20% second, i don't agree that they just "live off" benefits. in my experience, they have a lot of trouble living off them, and don't abuse them. third, i don't blindly support welfare. i have stated my position on it many times. i think that welfare should be a safety net first, and secondly a helping hand to help people transition from one place to another in their lives, and nothing more. anything outside that does not meet with my approval. i think that answers your question, but if not, tough shit. it was not intended to do anything other than piss me off, as far as i can tell. www.nytimes.com/2013/04/21/world/europe/danes-rethink-a-welfare-state-ample-to-a-fault.html?_r=0
In 2012, a little over 2.6 million people between the ages of 15 and 64 were working in Denmark, 47 percent of the total population and 73 percent of the 15- to 64-year-olds. (which means over 20% are not working)
...But many experts say a more basic problem is the proportion of Danes who are not participating in the work force at all — be they dawdling university students, young pensioners or welfare recipients like Carina who lean on hefty government support. ($2700 per month "support")
right, but what are the 27% doing? my guess is that a LOT of them are stay at home parents. a great majority of the 15-26 year old contingent is in school. some, like Romney, have passive income, and don't need to work. still more are seeking jobs. you don't have ANY proof that 27%, 20%, or even 10% are simply freeloading, right?
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djAdvocate
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Post by djAdvocate on May 22, 2015 17:13:04 GMT -5
Ohhh noooo....another slap in the face from the "Affordable" Care Act
www.msn.com/en-us/money/insurance/health-insurers-seek-hefty-rate-boosts/ar-BBk6wKt
Health Insurers Seek Hefty Rate Boosts
Major insurers in some states are proposing hefty rate boosts for plans sold under the federal health law, setting the stage for an intense debate this summer over the law’s impact.
In New Mexico, market leader Health Care Service Corp. is asking for an average jump of 51.6% in premiums for 2016. The biggest insurer in Tennessee, BlueCross BlueShield of Tennessee, has requested an average 36.3% increase. In Maryland, market leader CareFirst BlueCross BlueShield wants to raise rates 30.4% across its products. Moda Health, the largest insurer on the Oregon health exchange, seeks an average boost of around 25%.
All of them cite high medical costs incurred by people newly enrolled under the Affordable Care Act. not very meaningful, without knowing whether the plans are comparable, is it?
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jkapp
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Post by jkapp on May 22, 2015 18:45:40 GMT -5
www.nytimes.com/2013/04/21/world/europe/danes-rethink-a-welfare-state-ample-to-a-fault.html?_r=0
In 2012, a little over 2.6 million people between the ages of 15 and 64 were working in Denmark, 47 percent of the total population and 73 percent of the 15- to 64-year-olds. (which means over 20% are not working)
...But many experts say a more basic problem is the proportion of Danes who are not participating in the work force at all — be they dawdling university students, young pensioners or welfare recipients like Carina who lean on hefty government support. ($2700 per month "support")
right, but what are the 27% doing? my guess is that a LOT of them are stay at home parents. a great majority of the 15-26 year old contingent is in school. some, like Romney, have passive income, and don't need to work. still more are seeking jobs. you don't have ANY proof that 27%, 20%, or even 10% are simply freeloading, right? from the article:
One study, by the municipal policy research group Kora, recently found that only 3 of Denmark’s 98 municipalities will have a majority of residents working in 2013. This is a significant reduction from 2009, when 59 municipalities could boast that a majority of residents had jobs.
Joachim B. Olsen, the skeptical politician from the Liberal Alliance party who visited Carina 16 months ago in her pleasant Copenhagen apartment, is particularly alarmed. He says Sweden, which is already considered generous, has far fewer citizens living on government benefits. If Denmark followed Sweden’s example, it would have about 250,000 fewer people living on benefits of various sorts.
Currently, students are entitled to six years of stipends, about $990 a month, to complete a five-year degree which, of course, is free. Many of them take even longer to finish, taking breaks to travel and for internships before and during their studies.
Officials have also begun to question the large number of people who are receiving lifetime disability checks. About 240,000 people — roughly 9 percent of the potential work force — have lifetime disability status; about 33,500 of them are under 40.
Some Danes say the existence of people like Carina and Mr. Nielsen comes as no surprise. Lene Malmberg, who lives in Odsherred and works part time as a secretary despite a serious brain injury that has affected her short-term memory, said the Carina story was not news to her. At one point, she said, before her accident when she worked full time, her sister was receiving benefits and getting more money than she was.
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djAdvocate
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Post by djAdvocate on May 22, 2015 18:51:16 GMT -5
right, but what are the 27% doing? my guess is that a LOT of them are stay at home parents. a great majority of the 15-26 year old contingent is in school. some, like Romney, have passive income, and don't need to work. still more are seeking jobs. you don't have ANY proof that 27%, 20%, or even 10% are simply freeloading, right? from the article:
One study, by the municipal policy research group Kora, recently found that only 3 of Denmark’s 98 municipalities will have a majority of residents working in 2013. This is a significant reduction from 2009, when 59 municipalities could boast that a majority of residents had jobs.
Joachim B. Olsen, the skeptical politician from the Liberal Alliance party who visited Carina 16 months ago in her pleasant Copenhagen apartment, is particularly alarmed. He says Sweden, which is already considered generous, has far fewer citizens living on government benefits. If Denmark followed Sweden’s example, it would have about 250,000 fewer people living on benefits of various sorts.
Currently, students are entitled to six years of stipends, about $990 a month, to complete a five-year degree which, of course, is free. Many of them take even longer to finish, taking breaks to travel and for internships before and during their studies.
Officials have also begun to question the large number of people who are receiving lifetime disability checks. About 240,000 people — roughly 9 percent of the potential work force — have lifetime disability status; about 33,500 of them are under 40.
Some Danes say the existence of people like Carina and Mr. Nielsen comes as no surprise. Lene Malmberg, who lives in Odsherred and works part time as a secretary despite a serious brain injury that has affected her short-term memory, said the Carina story was not news to her. At one point, she said, before her accident when she worked full time, her sister was receiving benefits and getting more money than she was.
right. so students shouldn't count as "freeloaders", as they get no such stipends in our system. if you are disabled, then you are disabled. you can't work. those people aren't freeloaders, either. so, this image that i thought you were creating of the 20% with feet up on their ottomans living large on the state is not reflected in this data.
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djAdvocate
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Post by djAdvocate on May 22, 2015 18:52:27 GMT -5
edit: to be clear, i don't care if people don't work. Romney doesn't work. more power to him.
i ONLY care if they are freeloading off the state doing it, OR if they are criminals.
so, just to be clear, are you OK if i retire early? or do you consider that freeloading?
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jkapp
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Post by jkapp on May 22, 2015 22:03:42 GMT -5
from the article:
One study, by the municipal policy research group Kora, recently found that only 3 of Denmark’s 98 municipalities will have a majority of residents working in 2013. This is a significant reduction from 2009, when 59 municipalities could boast that a majority of residents had jobs.
Joachim B. Olsen, the skeptical politician from the Liberal Alliance party who visited Carina 16 months ago in her pleasant Copenhagen apartment, is particularly alarmed. He says Sweden, which is already considered generous, has far fewer citizens living on government benefits. If Denmark followed Sweden’s example, it would have about 250,000 fewer people living on benefits of various sorts.
Currently, students are entitled to six years of stipends, about $990 a month, to complete a five-year degree which, of course, is free. Many of them take even longer to finish, taking breaks to travel and for internships before and during their studies.
Officials have also begun to question the large number of people who are receiving lifetime disability checks. About 240,000 people — roughly 9 percent of the potential work force — have lifetime disability status; about 33,500 of them are under 40.
Some Danes say the existence of people like Carina and Mr. Nielsen comes as no surprise. Lene Malmberg, who lives in Odsherred and works part time as a secretary despite a serious brain injury that has affected her short-term memory, said the Carina story was not news to her. At one point, she said, before her accident when she worked full time, her sister was receiving benefits and getting more money than she was.
right. so students shouldn't count as "freeloaders", as they get no such stipends in our system. if you are disabled, then you are disabled. you can't work. those people aren't freeloaders, either. so, this image that i thought you were creating of the 20% with feet up on their ottomans living large on the state is not reflected in this data. Sorry, but students who get a free college education, while also receiving money to attend college, and then drag it out longer to continue receiving all of that free shit are definitely freeloaders. Perhaps you are unfamiliar with what the term freeloader means?
And it sounds like they are having the same problems with their disability system as we are in ours: people signing up for it that aren't truly disabled enough not to work - only enough to count towards getting free money. Like being morbidly obese...sorry, not a true disability.
ANd what do you imagine people are doing while collecting $2700 a month in public benefits and not working?
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jkapp
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Post by jkapp on May 22, 2015 22:08:34 GMT -5
edit: to be clear, i don't care if people don't work. Romney doesn't work. more power to him. i ONLY care if they are freeloading off the state doing it, OR if they are criminals. so, just to be clear, are you OK if i retire early? or do you consider that freeloading? You can retire whenever you want, as long as its on your own dime.
And just to be clear, are you okay if I argue against welfare systems that negatively effect society and work ethics? Such as free college education along with stipends, overly compensating welfare systems, and abusive usage of disability benefits?
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djAdvocate
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Post by djAdvocate on May 23, 2015 0:09:58 GMT -5
right. so students shouldn't count as "freeloaders", as they get no such stipends in our system. if you are disabled, then you are disabled. you can't work. those people aren't freeloaders, either. so, this image that i thought you were creating of the 20% with feet up on their ottomans living large on the state is not reflected in this data. Sorry, but students who get a free college education, while also receiving money to attend college, and then drag it out longer to continue receiving all of that free shit are definitely freeloaders. Perhaps you are unfamiliar with what the term freeloader means?
And it sounds like they are having the same problems with their disability system as we are in ours: people signing up for it that aren't truly disabled enough not to work - only enough to count towards getting free money. Like being morbidly obese...sorry, not a true disability.
ANd what do you imagine people are doing while collecting $2700 a month in public benefits and not working?
i still don't consider students freeloaders- so we have a difference of opinion, there. i am a big believer in free education. if that makes me a socialist, than fine- i am a socialist. and if memory serves, i believe that the Danish education system is #1 in the world. it is a shame that we can't do better. i would advocate modeling ours after theirs. but of course, we can't do that- because we are actually not all that interested in public education in this country. and when i say we, i mean TPTB, of course. we want servile robots, not educated, informed, independent minds. as far as disabled goes, unless you can prove it, you are speculating.
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djAdvocate
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Post by djAdvocate on May 23, 2015 0:14:40 GMT -5
edit: to be clear, i don't care if people don't work. Romney doesn't work. more power to him. i ONLY care if they are freeloading off the state doing it, OR if they are criminals. so, just to be clear, are you OK if i retire early? or do you consider that freeloading? You can retire whenever you want, as long as its on your own dime.
glad we settled that. how about Social Security. is that "my dime", by your definition?
And just to be clear, are you okay if I argue against welfare systems that negatively effect society and work ethics? Such as free college education along with stipends, overly compensating welfare systems, and abusive usage of disability benefits?
you can argue against anything you like. what is your beef against publicly funded education?
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jkapp
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Post by jkapp on May 23, 2015 9:15:46 GMT -5
You can retire whenever you want, as long as its on your own dime.
glad we settled that. how about Social Security. is that "my dime", by your definition?
And just to be clear, are you okay if I argue against welfare systems that negatively effect society and work ethics? Such as free college education along with stipends, overly compensating welfare systems, and abusive usage of disability benefits?
you can argue against anything you like. what is your beef against publicly funded education? My beef is "what is the accountability?" How do we stop what the Danes are seeing: students stretching out their student life in order to continue receiving free money while they constantly change majors to try to "figure out their life." I don't see a positive to throwing money down a hole where it is solely reliant on kids growing up, many of whom do not really want (or feel the need) to do so. Since they are paying nothing towards the education, would they even value it, or make sure they are using the money wisely? Its not THEIR money they are wasting, so why should they give a shit?
Just giving stuff away for free does not build character, it does not teach any sort of personal responsibility whatsoever (which, frankly, in Europe, it is not a largely valued trait as is - they even admit to that), and it does not lead to a realistic state of mind. All it does is teach kids that if they need something, it is someone else's responsibility to get it for them.
That is why I am against publicly funded education.
Why are you for it?
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djAdvocate
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Post by djAdvocate on May 23, 2015 11:39:20 GMT -5
you can argue against anything you like. what is your beef against publicly funded education? My beef is "what is the accountability?" How do we stop what the Danes are seeing: students stretching out their student life in order to continue receiving free money while they constantly change majors to try to "figure out their life." I don't see a positive to throwing money down a hole where it is solely reliant on kids growing up, many of whom do not really want (or feel the need) to do so. Since they are paying nothing towards the education, would they even value it, or make sure they are using the money wisely? Its not THEIR money they are wasting, so why should they give a shit?
Just giving stuff away for free does not build character, it does not teach any sort of personal responsibility whatsoever (which, frankly, in Europe, it is not a largely valued trait as is - they even admit to that), and it does not lead to a realistic state of mind. All it does is teach kids that if they need something, it is someone else's responsibility to get it for them.
That is why I am against publicly funded education.
Why are you for it?
for several reasons. first of all, i don't think kids need to be held to account in the way adults do. what they need is the opportunity to explore the landscape and make mistakes in an environment where the mistakes go on the record, and affect their life outcome, but not in the present. second, i think that education is the golden road to personal and national success. building one university for every 20 prisons (like we have in California) shows a complete lack of vision, imo. if you want to be the burger flippers and gardeners to countries like China, then what we are doing is just about perfect. if not, then we should really shift our priorities. i could go on and on in this vein, but i think you get it. part of it is just national pride. i don't like being below third rate nations in our national testing, and i want something DONE about it. we have been becoming more private in terms of education for two generations now, and it has yielded bitter fruit. it is time to try something else. NOTE: i am not suggesting that cost per pupil is the way forward. Denmark does it on far less, and achieves much better results.
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djAdvocate
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Post by djAdvocate on May 23, 2015 11:41:37 GMT -5
you can argue against anything you like. what is your beef against publicly funded education? My beef is "what is the accountability?" How do we stop what the Danes are seeing: students stretching out their student life in order to continue receiving free money while they constantly change majors to try to "figure out their life." I don't see a positive to throwing money down a hole where it is solely reliant on kids growing up, many of whom do not really want (or feel the need) to do so. Since they are paying nothing towards the education, would they even value it, or make sure they are using the money wisely? Its not THEIR money they are wasting, so why should they give a shit? did you pay for your college education? i didn't pay for mine. my dad graduated Stanford on the GI Bill. do you think that he didn't give a shit? i think you have a very negative view of not only college, but people. actually, i don't think it, i know it. i find it very sad.
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djAdvocate
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Post by djAdvocate on May 23, 2015 12:06:36 GMT -5
Just giving stuff away for free does not build character i think you made a huge leap there. i never said that there should be no standards for free education, only that it should be free. if i implied that it should be free to all, no matter how they perform, i apologize. kids who do not perform well academically should have a vocational option that is ALSO publicly funded, imo. any student older than, say...15....should be able to shift between those two tracks depending on what they discover about their own proclivities. a student who starts academic should be able to switch to vocational, and vice versa. also, the vocational tracks should be partially funded by industries that need those vocations, and should partially (less than 50%) staff the boards that govern them. our system looks so little like the one i just described that i don't think it will ever happen. but a fellow can dream.
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Post by djAdvocate on May 23, 2015 12:11:14 GMT -5
We're a long way from becoming Denmark. There's a good argument for having skin in the game but I think we'd improve as a nation if we split the difference between where we are at and more socialized nations. part of the problem is that our FOCUS isn't even right. we are all about performance, and standards, and competition in our schools. Denmark actually has extremely low standards on all three of those things. they have much higher standards for independence, motivation, and creativity. and, of course, they have much better results. also, we like to regulate the hell out of our teachers, which give them little to no opportunity to teach in the manner than they feel is best for their students. that is also completely different in Denmark. that is why i really think we need to OVERHAUL our system. it stopped working sometime in the last 50 years. there are better ways.
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Post by jkapp on May 23, 2015 12:57:22 GMT -5
My beef is "what is the accountability?" How do we stop what the Danes are seeing: students stretching out their student life in order to continue receiving free money while they constantly change majors to try to "figure out their life." I don't see a positive to throwing money down a hole where it is solely reliant on kids growing up, many of whom do not really want (or feel the need) to do so. Since they are paying nothing towards the education, would they even value it, or make sure they are using the money wisely? Its not THEIR money they are wasting, so why should they give a shit? did you pay for your college education?
i didn't pay for mine. my dad graduated Stanford on the GI Bill. do you think that he didn't give a shit? i think you have a very negative view of not only college, but people. actually, i don't think it, i know it. i find it very sad. Yes I did...I worked part-time while getting my Tech College degree, then switched to full-time employment and part-time college (night/online classes). I did the latter part for seven years, taking one to two classes per semester, paying the costs as I went along. After those seven years, I had a four-year degree, zero college debt, and 7 years of on the job experience.
And your dad paid for his college by giving a portion of his life to the military - that was a cost to him, and a definite way to learn about real life and responsibility. By doing so, I'm sure he had a better handle on real life and respect for the money being paid on his behalf.
I definitely have a negative view of people, because they keep showing their wasteful, irresponsible behavior time and again. The Danes have seen it happen to their kids - they don't respect the benefits they receive anymore. The benefits are no longer appreciated, they are expected...and that's why they are having to try to fix the welfare state they have created (and the negative consequences of such). And why are there negative consequences? Because human behavior is naturally to abuse that which is not earned. Once something is earned (not just given away), it is valued more by the receiver. Period. (as Obama would say)
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Post by djAdvocate on May 23, 2015 13:06:42 GMT -5
did you pay for your college education?
i didn't pay for mine. my dad graduated Stanford on the GI Bill. do you think that he didn't give a shit? i think you have a very negative view of not only college, but people. actually, i don't think it, i know it. i find it very sad. Yes I did...I worked part-time while getting my Tech College degree, then switched to full-time employment and part-time college (night/online classes). I did the latter part for seven years, taking one to two classes per semester, paying the costs as I went along. After those seven years, I had a four-year degree, zero college debt, and 7 years of on the job experience.
good for you. i didn't. my dad and mom paid for my education. sure, i worked. but that did NOT pay for my tuition. it paid for my expenses OTHER than tuition. and honestly? i think the working had an adverse impact on my education- it INTERFERED with my studies. and i took on debt that took 10 years to pay off. i am sorry that you had to struggle so much, and i know you are not (you feel it made you better)- but i don't think that other people should have to struggle like you have. i want students to focus on STUDIES.
i am with you on the "no debt" part, however.
And your dad paid for his college by giving a portion of his life to the military - that was a cost to him, and a definite way to learn about real life and responsibility. By doing so, I'm sure he had a better handle on real life and respect for the money being paid on his behalf.
you are making a lot of assumptions about my dad. but since he has passed on, and i have no interest in speaking ill of him, i will simply say that every one of your assumptions are wrong.
I definitely have a negative view of people, because they keep showing their wasteful, irresponsible behavior time and again.
i have a generally positive view of people because they keep showing me that they are industrious, work hard, and thankful for the opportunities they are given (present company included). i find it interesting that two people from the same place and time can have such differing perspectives. maybe it is just because Californians are so terrific, but i seriously doubt it.
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Post by djAdvocate on May 23, 2015 13:17:33 GMT -5
The Danes have seen it happen to their kids - they don't respect the benefits they receive anymore. The benefits are no longer appreciated, they are expected...and that's why they are having to try to fix the welfare state they have created (and the negative consequences of such). And why are there negative consequences? Because human behavior is naturally to abuse that which is not earned. Once something is earned (not just given away), it is valued more by the receiver. Period. (as Obama would say) the Danes have the best educational system in the world, so if that is what failure looks like, we need more failure here. as to the rest of this stuff, there are probably people out there that have no appreciation for what is given to them, but i have never met them. i am sorry that your life is so full of such people, and wish you better luck in the future.
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Post by Deleted on May 23, 2015 18:15:47 GMT -5
My beef is "what is the accountability?" How do we stop what the Danes are seeing: students stretching out their student life in order to continue receiving free money while they constantly change majors to try to "figure out their life." I don't see a positive to throwing money down a hole where it is solely reliant on kids growing up, many of whom do not really want (or feel the need) to do so. Since they are paying nothing towards the education, would they even value it, or make sure they are using the money wisely? Its not THEIR money they are wasting, so why should they give a shit? did you pay for your college education?i didn't pay for mine. my dad graduated Stanford on the GI Bill. do you think that he didn't give a shit? i think you have a very negative view of not only college, but people. actually, i don't think it, i know it. i find it very sad. I believe service to our country counts as "Paying his bill". My thanks to him for his service to our country.
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Post by djAdvocate on May 23, 2015 18:18:09 GMT -5
did you pay for your college education?i didn't pay for mine. my dad graduated Stanford on the GI Bill. do you think that he didn't give a shit? i think you have a very negative view of not only college, but people. actually, i don't think it, i know it. i find it very sad. I believe service to our country counts as "Paying his bill". My thanks to him for his service to our country. as i implied in my reply, there were some rather odd circumstances associated with his enlistment. i am not sure how much praise you would give him if you knew them, but thanks anyways. Navy, if you were wondering.
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Post by Deleted on May 23, 2015 18:21:14 GMT -5
I believe service to our country counts as "Paying his bill". My thanks to him for his service to our country. as i implied in my reply, there were some rather odd circumstances associated with his enlistment. i am not sure how much praise you would give him if you knew them, but thanks anyways. Navy, if you were wondering. Regardless of the circumstances of his enlistment, if he qualified for the G.I. Bill, he served enough to get my respect for his service. I'm completely leaving the rest of his life out of it. and only respecting his service.
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djAdvocate
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Post by djAdvocate on May 23, 2015 18:45:51 GMT -5
as i implied in my reply, there were some rather odd circumstances associated with his enlistment. i am not sure how much praise you would give him if you knew them, but thanks anyways. Navy, if you were wondering. Regardless of the circumstances of his enlistment, if he qualified for the G.I. Bill, he served enough to get my respect for his service. I'm completely leaving the rest of his life out of it. and only respecting his service. he has passed on, and i said thanks. can we leave it there?
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Post by Deleted on May 23, 2015 19:18:04 GMT -5
Regardless of the circumstances of his enlistment, if he qualified for the G.I. Bill, he served enough to get my respect for his service. I'm completely leaving the rest of his life out of it. and only respecting his service. he has passed on, and i said thanks. can we leave it there? Absolutely!
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NoNamePerson
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Post by NoNamePerson on May 23, 2015 21:06:22 GMT -5
Just curious since the subject of G.I. bill came up. Are dependents of soldiers KIA eligible for college benefits now? That is how I went to college back in 60's. VA paid my way. I vaguely remember the lady at registration saying Oh, you are going under the War Orphans Act!!!!
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jkapp
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Post by jkapp on May 24, 2015 9:27:23 GMT -5
Yes I did...I worked part-time while getting my Tech College degree, then switched to full-time employment and part-time college (night/online classes). I did the latter part for seven years, taking one to two classes per semester, paying the costs as I went along. After those seven years, I had a four-year degree, zero college debt, and 7 years of on the job experience.
good for you. i didn't. my dad and mom paid for my education. sure, i worked. but that did NOT pay for my tuition. it paid for my expenses OTHER than tuition. and honestly? i think the working had an adverse impact on my education- it INTERFERED with my studies. and i took on debt that took 10 years to pay off. i am sorry that you had to struggle so much, and i know you are not (you feel it made you better)- but i don't think that other people should have to struggle like you have. i want students to focus on STUDIES.
i am with you on the "no debt" part, however.
And your dad paid for his college by giving a portion of his life to the military - that was a cost to him, and a definite way to learn about real life and responsibility. By doing so, I'm sure he had a better handle on real life and respect for the money being paid on his behalf.
you are making a lot of assumptions about my dad. but since he has passed on, and i have no interest in speaking ill of him, i will simply say that every one of your assumptions are wrong.
I definitely have a negative view of people, because they keep showing their wasteful, irresponsible behavior time and again.
i have a generally positive view of people because they keep showing me that they are industrious, work hard, and thankful for the opportunities they are given (present company included). i find it interesting that two people from the same place and time can have such differing perspectives. maybe it is just because Californians are so terrific, but i seriously doubt it. I never said I struggled, and I didn't want the statement to come off as a struggle. It was completely doable, and IMO a better way for college to work and be affordable. I never felt like I was overly stressed, or that work was interfering in any way. I used a few vacation days to complete a term paper or project, but other than that, the setup was quite stable.
Yes, you work 8+ hours a day, then go to class for another 3 hours (or go home and have 1-3 hours of school work, though not every night was a cram session). I still remember having quite a bit of time for leisure activities.
Now if I had a wife and kids, if would probably have been much more difficult (depending on the kids' ages, anyway), so I'm sure it wouldn't work for everyone. But if a person is single (or in a cooperative family ) and doesn't have a free ride for college, I would highly recommend this path. Its longer but better IMO. A couple of ladies I work with keep trying to take a full class load while working full-time and I hear them stressing out all the time. The trick really is stay slow and steady (only 1-2 classes per semester). And to take a summer off every now and then
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djAdvocate
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Post by djAdvocate on May 24, 2015 12:11:47 GMT -5
i have a generally positive view of people because they keep showing me that they are industrious, work hard, and thankful for the opportunities they are given (present company included). i find it interesting that two people from the same place and time can have such differing perspectives. maybe it is just because Californians are so terrific, but i seriously doubt it. I never said I struggled, and I didn't want the statement to come off as a struggle. It was completely doable, and IMO a better way for college to work and be affordable. I never felt like I was overly stressed, or that work was interfering in any way. I used a few vacation days to complete a term paper or project, but other than that, the setup was quite stable.
Yes, you work 8+ hours a day, then go to class for another 3 hours (or go home and have 1-3 hours of school work, though not every night was a cram session). I still remember having quite a bit of time for leisure activities.
Now if I had a wife and kids, if would probably have been much more difficult (depending on the kids' ages, anyway), so I'm sure it wouldn't work for everyone. But if a person is single (or in a cooperative family ) and doesn't have a free ride for college, I would highly recommend this path. Its longer but better IMO. A couple of ladies I work with keep trying to take a full class load while working full-time and I hear them stressing out all the time. The trick really is stay slow and steady (only 1-2 classes per semester). And to take a summer off every now and then
i didn't say that you said you struggled. i was extrapolating based on my own experience. i worked part time and went to school full time. if i had worked full time, it would have taken me another 5 years to graduate. if i had not worked at all, i would have accumulated a huge amount of debt. either of those would have been a hardship to me- one that i was able to avoid by using my parents funds (which, incidentally, they were happy to do). i extrapolated further that it would present a hardship to MOST people. i would like OTHERS to comment as to whether they worked FULL TIME WHILE GOING TO SCHOOL before i comment further, and get their impressions from them.
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djAdvocate
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Post by djAdvocate on May 24, 2015 12:13:35 GMT -5
edit: i should mention that my dad didn't pay a red cent for my community college education. i worked part time and went to school full time, then, but the cost was so low, i could manage it.
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weltschmerz
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Post by weltschmerz on May 24, 2015 12:24:13 GMT -5
I never said I struggled, and I didn't want the statement to come off as a struggle. It was completely doable, and IMO a better way for college to work and be affordable. I never felt like I was overly stressed, or that work was interfering in any way. I used a few vacation days to complete a term paper or project, but other than that, the setup was quite stable.
Yes, you work 8+ hours a day, then go to class for another 3 hours (or go home and have 1-3 hours of school work, though not every night was a cram session). I still remember having quite a bit of time for leisure activities.
Now if I had a wife and kids, if would probably have been much more difficult (depending on the kids' ages, anyway), so I'm sure it wouldn't work for everyone. But if a person is single (or in a cooperative family ) and doesn't have a free ride for college, I would highly recommend this path. Its longer but better IMO. A couple of ladies I work with keep trying to take a full class load while working full-time and I hear them stressing out all the time. The trick really is stay slow and steady (only 1-2 classes per semester). And to take a summer off every now and then
i didn't say that you said you struggled. i was extrapolating based on my own experience. i worked part time and went to school full time. if i had worked full time, it would have taken me another 5 years to graduate. if i had not worked at all, i would have accumulated a huge amount of debt. either of those would have been a hardship to me- one that i was able to avoid by using my parents funds (which, incidentally, they were happy to do). i extrapolated further that it would present a hardship to MOST people . i would like OTHERS to comment as to whether they worked FULL TIME WHILE GOING TO SCHOOL before i comment further, and get their impressions from them.Full time? Gosh, no....I didn't need to. Our universities are taxpayer funded, so there was no need to work full time. It's not expensive, and parents don't need to take out mortgages to send their kids to college. Kids aren't left with crippling debt to pay off. I worked in a doughnut shop to pay for my tuition and books, while I was getting a degree in abnormal psychology. It served me well when I later went into psychiatric nursing.
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jkapp
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Post by jkapp on May 25, 2015 8:44:19 GMT -5
edit: i should mention that my dad didn't pay a red cent for my community college education. i worked part time and went to school full time, then, but the cost was so low, i could manage it. The cost was about the same for me...I got my Assoc Degree from a Tech College and the cost for a full load semester was about $500 plus books. Whereas once I switched to the 4-year program at a local college, the cost was almost $600 per class (and quickly jumped to $700+ after the first couple years). The online classes were always about $200 more than the on-campus ones, too.
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