chiver78
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Post by chiver78 on Oct 14, 2014 20:02:59 GMT -5
but that's what a car is for....it's like buying new sheets and then not using them because they'll get worn. Or having expensive silverware for the "important" guests that manage to never show up! You have no Idea how accurate this analogy is for me Carl. I have had the showroom house that nobody came to anymore, and I'm done. next place will be lived in, and there will be at least one dog. back to the car though - if I am racking up miles on a vehicle, why not just a basic one? buy a 2nd for fun, driving around town and weekends sort of thing. I dunno....lots to think about. not doing anything until I'm in my new house, unless the Rocket has some sort of catastrophic breakdown <knocks wood> sent from my electronic distraction
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chiver78
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Post by chiver78 on Oct 14, 2014 20:06:08 GMT -5
Chiver, DW drives a Subaru Outback, here in Mass and Michigan, never had a problem with the bad weather we can get in either location. The all wheel drive is peace of mind for me. I have gotten 30 mpg w/ the Subaru, DW has a lead foot, she gets around 22-24. DW's car is the 4 cyl. w/ automatic, plenty of get up and go a few people have suggested Subys, both here and IRL. I have only test driven the BRZ ( actually Toyota's FRS, which is the exact same car) and dint care for it. I know it is a completely different base and design than the rest of the Suby line, so I'll give one a shot to test drive. sent from my electronic distraction
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Miss Tequila
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Post by Miss Tequila on Oct 14, 2014 20:06:11 GMT -5
I think the opposite of the OP. I have a very short commute so I can deal with pretty much any car for 10 minutes each way (15 minutes if I but major traffic :-p). But if I were going to be spending 2 to 2 1/2 hours a day in my car, I would be going for comfort.
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chiver78
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Post by chiver78 on Oct 14, 2014 20:25:48 GMT -5
comfort is a personal preference, definitely. I can't remember who said they were getting an Explorer in order to be more comfortable. I would actually hate that move. I have only ever owned small cars and don't feel at all confident in driving larger trucks/SUVs. for me, as long as I have lumbar support and cruise control, I'm good. sent from my electronic distraction
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momofg
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Post by momofg on Oct 17, 2014 14:57:20 GMT -5
I'm assuming you will be driving on 495? I don't drive the southern part of 495 very often - only holidays to visit family in Taunton, but on the northern part 75 to 80 is the average speed. I would be a little nervous driving that everyday in a very small car. Too many crazies on the road especially when it snows.
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tskeeter
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Post by tskeeter on Oct 17, 2014 15:04:46 GMT -5
I went test driving yesterday, doing some research on what's out there now. lots of new models since I bought the Rocket 10 years ago. I'm going to have about an hour commute (~70 miles each way) and am trying to figure out which path to take with this purchase. so yesterday I drove Kia Forte and a VW GTI Golf. I have more I want to test drive, but these two are enough to start this thread anyway. I didn't love the Forte, but it would do the job. MSRP was about $18k for a stick. gets pretty good gas mileage, has enough trunk space for my hockey bag, and would be a practical purchase. but again, I didn't love it. I loved the GTI Golf in comparison. for such a little car, it has some balls! definitely could see myself driving that as a faily commuter - especially the diesel model that gets almost 45mpg. the MSRP on the GTI is almost $29k - way more than the Forte. driving back from the dealerships with my friend, I thought aloud - why would I spend almost $30k on a new car that I'll be easily putting over 20k miles on each year. why not go with the Forte (or something else around the same price) and just drive that into the ground? pay it off in a couple years and then get something fun for everything BUT the daily commute? if I'm going with something fun, the Mini is coming back into consideration - also in the $28k range for a convertible (what I would prefer). or - why not keep the Rocket as long as she'll drive, use that for the daily commute and still get something fun. going that route, I could have "fun" be the GTI Golf with the awesome gas mileage that will be practical once the Rocket finally dies. thoughts? sorry, I know I was kind of rambling there. those of you with longer commutes, how do you approach buying your vehicles? One major consideration is comfort/utility. I quit buying manual transmissions because it was hard to shirt, turn crners, and hold a coffee cup at the same time.
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8 Bit WWBG
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Post by 8 Bit WWBG on Oct 17, 2014 15:26:15 GMT -5
Who knows what will actually happen. As has been said, you might end up with the Civic that needs major repairs at 15,000 miles, or the Porsche that goes 150,000 on oil changes and sunshine. I also think you could also go nuts analyzing deeper and deeper here. To afford the fun car, are we talking "a few less dinners out" or are we talking "beans and ramen 3 meals a day".
My personal opinion is that if I'm going to spend as long in a car as you are, it needs to make me happy. Happy could be comfort, fun to drive, cheap to operate... Its tough to find all of the above in one package, so you really are just going to have to prioritize. The fact that you'd get to use a fun car up to its potential definitely helps.
You know either way you'll have a downside. If you buy fun, you'll be cursing it when an expensive repair happens. But if you buy econobox, you'll be irritated every time you step on the gas and it is sluggish to respond.
We have a peppy German and its a heck of a lot more fun than the econobox was. But we bought it before we changed from train to driving. We may pull the trigger on another econobox for commuting, especially when the free HOV lane times end in a few months and its bye bye easy ride home.
And damn Acura for discontinuing the TSX, as well as the TL. I was considering a used TSX, but I suspect they will get harder to find. TLX my butt...
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chiver78
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Post by chiver78 on Oct 17, 2014 16:58:26 GMT -5
yup, 25 to 495. and honestly, I've only ever driven smaller cars. I have an RSX now (the Rocket) and everything I'm looking at is about the same size. re: comfort/utility and not having enough hands - I cut my teeth, so to speak, on manual transmission back in college. I had a 1994 Saturn SL2 (that I still see driving around town, actually ) that was a manual with crank windows and no cup holders. I was commuting in to Boston along the Pike - a toll road. the first thing I did was get one of those portable cup holders that hung off the air vents. the second thing I did was sign up for EZPass. WWBG - you're absolutely right. I could have a lemon at any price. and yes, damn Acura for discontinuing the lower priced models. I didn't realize the TSX was gone too? I had an ILX as a loaner when I got my clutch replaced a couple years ago, and thought it was nice. not $31k nice, but still. oh, and today I priced out both a fun car and an econobox. first, a 2015 Civic. the only model that's available in manual is the stripped-down base at about $18k. the fun was a 2015 Mazda Miata, I was surprised to find that the base model of that runs about $24k. I poked around on that when I looked up the Mazda 3 and 6 that had been mentioned in here already. I'm going to try to test drive both on Sunday. I'll be coming back from CT for my hockey game in Canton (on the 128 belt) in late afternoon. if I get back to the area early enough, I'll hit the Automile and test both of them. honestly, the Civic is going to be the closest to what I have now, out of what's available today. I'm absolutely comfortable with a Honda, the Rocket's going to hit 180k miles in the next week and she's still running strong. as long as I was comfortable driving that Civic, I have a feeling that's the route I'll take once the Rocket's had enough. I'm being financially irresponsible enough in voluntarily giving myself an hour's commute, I should probably do something responsible and buy an econobox first. pay that off, and a little bit of the principal on the new house, and then get something fun. using the Miata as a comparison, I had my dad ask his friend the car dealer - what would a 5yo Miata go for? stick, summer fun car w/low mileage? he said about $16k. so it seems like it's going to hold its value pretty well over the years. whether that's the fun route I take, who knows.
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Post by Deleted on Oct 17, 2014 17:01:04 GMT -5
yup, 25 to 495. and honestly, I've only ever driven smaller cars. I have an RSX now (the Rocket) and everything I'm looking at is about the same size. re: comfort/utility and not having enough hands - I cut my teeth, so to speak, on manual transmission back in college. I had a 1994 Saturn SL2 (that I still see driving around town, actually ) that was a manual with crank windows and no cup holders. I was commuting in to Boston along the Pike - a toll road. the first thing I did was get one of those portable cup holders that hung off the air vents. the second thing I did was sign up for EZPass. WWBG - you're absolutely right. I could have a lemon at any price. and yes, damn Acura for discontinuing the lower priced models. I didn't realize the TSX was gone too? I had an ILX as a loaner when I got my clutch replaced a couple years ago, and thought it was nice. not $31k nice, but still. oh, and today I priced out both a fun car and an econobox. first, a 2015 Civic. the only model that's available in manual is the stripped-down base at about $18k. the fun was a 2015 Mazda Miata, I was surprised to find that the base model of that runs about $24k. I poked around on that when I looked up the Mazda 3 and 6 that had been mentioned in here already. I'm going to try to test drive both on Sunday. I'll be coming back from CT for my hockey game in Canton (on the 128 belt) in late afternoon. if I get back to the area early enough, I'll hit the Automile and test both of them. honestly, the Civic is going to be the closest to what I have now, out of what's available today. I'm absolutely comfortable with a Honda, the Rocket's going to hit 180k miles in the next week and she's still running strong. as long as I was comfortable driving that Civic, I have a feeling that's the route I'll take once the Rocket's had enough. I'm being financially irresponsible enough in voluntarily giving myself an hour's commute, I should probably do something responsible and buy an econobox first. pay that off, and a little bit of the principal on the new house, and then get something fun. using the Miata as a comparison, I had my dad ask his friend the car dealer - what would a 5yo Miata go for? stick, summer fun car w/low mileage? he said about $16k. so it seems like it's going to hold its value pretty well over the years. whether that's the fun route I take, who knows. is there some reason you won't consider an automatic? and for the length of your commute, I wouldn't consider a stripped down model - I'd want remote everything, heated seats, CD player, MP3 connection, etc.
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chiver78
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Post by chiver78 on Oct 17, 2014 17:10:56 GMT -5
I don't like them. isn't that reason enough? take a look at the Civic specs - link the LX ("stripped down" model) has a CD player, doesn't have any nav screen at all (this is bonus points, IMHO), has an MP3 connection, etc. I don't use all the bells and whistles in a loaner, I don't even have them now. why would I want to pay for them? honestly, the only thing I'd really miss is the XM in-dash. but I can add that w/aftermarket.....or just plug in my iPod. I don't see the problem here.
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Post by Opti on Oct 17, 2014 17:47:34 GMT -5
Chiver, DW drives a Subaru Outback, here in Mass and Michigan, never had a problem with the bad weather we can get in either location. The all wheel drive is peace of mind for me. I have gotten 30 mpg w/ the Subaru, DW has a lead foot, she gets around 22-24. DW's car is the 4 cyl. w/ automatic, plenty of get up and go a few people have suggested Subys, both here and IRL. I have only test driven the BRZ ( actually Toyota's FRS, which is the exact same car) and dint care for it. I know it is a completely different base and design than the rest of the Suby line, so I'll give one a shot to test drive. sent from my electronic distraction The Subaru version got better reviews in the car mags. Curious, what did you not like about it?
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Post by Opti on Oct 17, 2014 17:50:27 GMT -5
I don't like them. isn't that reason enough? take a look at the Civic specs - link the LX ("stripped down" model) has a CD player, doesn't have any nav screen at all (this is bonus points, IMHO), has an MP3 connection, etc. I don't use all the bells and whistles in a loaner, I don't even have them now. why would I want to pay for them? honestly, the only thing I'd really miss is the XM in-dash. but I can add that w/aftermarket.....or just plug in my iPod. I don't see the problem here.
Get what amenities work for you. One thing I did like about getting my car is I was able to for the most part pick and choose things and not be stuck because of various packages.
Some people love fully loaded vehicles. I just see them as more things to go wrong and break.
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Post by Opti on Oct 17, 2014 17:56:03 GMT -5
I went test driving yesterday, doing some research on what's out there now. lots of new models since I bought the Rocket 10 years ago. I'm going to have about an hour commute (~70 miles each way) and am trying to figure out which path to take with this purchase. so yesterday I drove Kia Forte and a VW GTI Golf. I have more I want to test drive, but these two are enough to start this thread anyway. I didn't love the Forte, but it would do the job. MSRP was about $18k for a stick. gets pretty good gas mileage, has enough trunk space for my hockey bag, and would be a practical purchase. but again, I didn't love it. I loved the GTI Golf in comparison. for such a little car, it has some balls! definitely could see myself driving that as a faily commuter - especially the diesel model that gets almost 45mpg. the MSRP on the GTI is almost $29k - way more than the Forte. driving back from the dealerships with my friend, I thought aloud - why would I spend almost $30k on a new car that I'll be easily putting over 20k miles on each year. why not go with the Forte (or something else around the same price) and just drive that into the ground? pay it off in a couple years and then get something fun for everything BUT the daily commute? if I'm going with something fun, the Mini is coming back into consideration - also in the $28k range for a convertible (what I would prefer). or - why not keep the Rocket as long as she'll drive, use that for the daily commute and still get something fun. going that route, I could have "fun" be the GTI Golf with the awesome gas mileage that will be practical once the Rocket finally dies. thoughts? sorry, I know I was kind of rambling there. those of you with longer commutes, how do you approach buying your vehicles? One major consideration is comfort/utility. I quit buying manual transmissions because it was hard to shirt, turn crners, and hold a coffee cup at the same time. I could see that might be a problem for some folks. I don't drink coffee in my car. Probably never will. I drink water usually when I am stopped(traffic lights) so my only issue with manual is in awful stop and start traffic. Which I avoid when possible.
If I ever commute to Manhattan via car it would be an automatic.
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shanendoah
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Post by shanendoah on Oct 17, 2014 18:23:18 GMT -5
have not read the whole thread. Just wanted to chime in about Diesel VWs.
I have two VW TDI models. One is just over 100k miles, the other at almost 200k. I bought one at 180k miles, for over 10k (there was also one with over 300k miles going for the same cost because it had been a more expensive model to begin with, and had a nicer interior.)
So, they hold their value and the DIESEL models last forever. (I would never consider owning a gas VW.) At 20k miles/year, you're still driving this nicer car for 10-15 years before you need to think about replacing it.
With the diesel engine, you go in for your first oil change at 5k miles, and the second one at 10k miles (we did, in fact, run out of oil at one point during the first 10k miles, as the engine conditioned itself). After that, routine maintenance is every 10k miles. Oil changes are about $100, and the every 30k mile services run $250+, but those are things you can plan for. You may now be able to get cheaper oil changes. When we first got our TDI (in 2007), you could only get the oil they used at the VW dealership. Import rules have changed, and you now can buy that oil at car supply stores, so I am guessing that Jiffy/Quickie Lube places may carry it now, too. However, we've always had excellent service with our dealerships, so stick with them for everything that isn't tires or breaks (because I live in the land of Les Schwab, and go to Les Schwab for all tires and breaks).
These cars also tend to get BETTER than their advertised MPG. I run B99, which is supposed to cut my gas efficiency by 5-10%. I still average 40mpg combined, and on road trips from Seattle to Portland, get over 50mpg on the highway in my 2006 Jetta TDI. My 2003 Jetta Wagon TDI (the one with almost 200k miles on it) gets around 35mpg, but is used almost exclusively on surface streets. When we did take it on one road trip, we got over 40mpg, but I don't remember the exact number. I should also note that both of my cars have automatic transmissions, which is also supposed to cut MPGs.
The one downer, for me, in getting one of the newer TDIs (and that's any 2008 or later model year) is that they can no longer run bio-diesel over B20. But that's a me thing.
So, just something to think about with the Golf. I honestly LOVE my two Jettas and am glad I don't have to think about replacing them anytime soon.
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chiver78
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Post by chiver78 on Oct 17, 2014 18:40:40 GMT -5
a few people have suggested Subys, both here and IRL. I have only test driven the BRZ ( actually Toyota's FRS, which is the exact same car) and dint care for it. I know it is a completely different base and design than the rest of the Suby line, so I'll give one a shot to test drive. sent from my electronic distraction The Subaru version got better reviews in the car mags. Curious, what did you not like about it?
the blind spots were weird, for me. someone else might be okay with where they were. I also didn't care for the clutch. I know sports car clutches are different from your average car, I've driven a few over the years. this one just wasn't a good fit for me. I actually went to a Suby dealer first, but they only had one - an automatic. so I hit up the Toyota dealership near work one day at lunch. If I were to ever buy a Toyota, this dealership would be the last place I'd go. they called me twice a week for a month or more, even AFTER I told them I wasn't interested. it took having to escalate my request to the general manager for it to be honored. not cool.
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chiver78
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Post by chiver78 on Oct 17, 2014 18:46:13 GMT -5
shanendoah - THANK YOU! your post is gold with all that detail on TDIs! I knew that diesel engines had a different maintenance schedule than gas engines, but didn't know there was such a huge price difference in the oil changes....wow! I routinely get my oil changed at a Valvoline shop, would very likely continue doing so no matter what car I end up with. I'd like to think this is something I'd have asked about before buying, but it hadn't crossed my mind yet! as far as Golf vs Jetta, I just like smaller cars the friends that pointed me toward the TDIs all have Jettas, most with the Sportwagen.
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8 Bit WWBG
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Post by 8 Bit WWBG on Oct 17, 2014 19:54:39 GMT -5
...:::"WWBG - you're absolutely right. I could have a lemon at any price. and yes, damn Acura for discontinuing the lower priced models. I didn't realize the TSX was gone too? I had an ILX as a loaner when I got my clutch replaced a couple years ago, and thought it was nice. not $31k nice, but still.":::...
The ILX seemed just like a ploy to get people to spend more. Spec-wise it was pretty much a Civic, but the Acura badging commands a higher price. With the TSX gone, maybe they will decide to bump the ILX up to fill the role of the TSX.
Both the TSX and TL are history as of this year. I've seen the new TLX on the road. It looks on the big side.
Bells and whistles do make a difference when you are in the car that much. I've been looking at inexpensive commuter cars. I can do without most of the fancier stuff (smart key, backup camera, bluetooth...) but I really do like heated seats. Its nice to be warmed from below rather than have hot air blowing.
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chiver78
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Post by chiver78 on Oct 17, 2014 20:05:42 GMT -5
I think the TL was gone awhile ago - the model names have all ended in X for awhile now. I could be wrong, though. in all honesty, the TSX is an Accord. I saw what I thought was a TSX last time I was in Belgium for work - which was 2004/5ish. the model markers on the trunk said Accord. come to find out - the US is the only country that allows luxury pricing for the same thing. whether that's changed in the last 10 years, I'm not sure. but I digress.... the ILX felt like a 4dr version of my car, still too big for my taste. I'm not sure that my car is a direct equal to the Civic though. it was the replacement for the Integra, which was a Prelude. who knows. and the bells and whistles - I don't have them now. I can't miss what I don't know. and even though my commute's been very short for a long time, I still drive quite a bit.
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Post by bobosensei on Oct 18, 2014 5:32:26 GMT -5
Or having expensive silverware for the "important" guests that manage to never show up! You have no Idea how accurate this analogy is for me Carl. I have had the showroom house that nobody came to anymore, and I'm done. next place will be lived in, and there will be at least one dog. My dogs love riding in the car with their head out the window. I am sure they would LOVE a convertible, but we'd have to buckle them in to keep them from jumping out if they felt like it.
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Post by 8 Bit WWBG on Oct 18, 2014 9:25:03 GMT -5
...:::"in all honesty, the TSX is an Accord. I saw what I thought was a TSX last time I was in Belgium for work - which was 2004/5ish. the model markers on the trunk said Accord. come to find out - the US is the only country that allows luxury pricing for the same thing. whether that's changed in the last 10 years, I'm not sure. but I digress....
the ILX felt like a 4dr version of my car, still too big for my taste. I'm not sure that my car is a direct equal to the Civic though. it was the replacement for the Integra, which was a Prelude.":::...
The European branding and badging is very different. An American Accord (the bigger sedan) is not a European Accord. I think the European Accord is closer to a Civic. I'm not sure exactly how Honda translates to Acura. The TSX is the sports sedan. I thought the RSX filled the hole left by the Integra -- though not 100% the same.
Car makers need to stop discontinuing cars before I can buy them. I really wanted a Lexus SC430. Guess the best I'll ever be able to do is a used one.
Looking at the specs on Edmunds, I'm more convinced than ever that an ILX is just an Acura badged Civic. 150HP for $25,865? I can get a 2 year old TSX for the same price with more stuff and 50 more ponies.
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Post by shanendoah on Oct 18, 2014 10:51:55 GMT -5
chiver78 - i totally understand your love of the smaller car. We don't have a Passat because we don't need or want the added space. However, with two adults, two dogs, and one to two kids, the Golf just isn't big enough for our family. We got the Jetta wagon when we were early in the adoption process because we needed a car that could safely accommodate the dogs and a car seat (which the sedan totally couldn't).
I would check with the place that does your oil changes and make sure they can do them for the TDI engines. I would think that they should be able to now, since the oil is now available places other than dealerships. Model year in this case might also be a factor, since there is a substantial difference in the fuel systems between the 2006 (and earlier) and 2008 (and later) model years (there were no VW TDIs released in the US in the 2007 model year).
And yes, the oil changes cost about 3x as much for the TDI, but you're also getting them 3x less often. It's not a cost savings, but it should be about a wash. (That is if you're getting your oil changes every 3k miles in your current car.)
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Post by midjd on Oct 18, 2014 12:05:03 GMT -5
I know, right?!
I was so sad when I sold my Del Sol because they didn't make that many of them (~70K in the US, I think), and the newest ones are 1997... so by the time I'm in the market for a 2-seater again, they'll all be close to 30 years old, if there are even any left. I don't know why they didn't make more of them, they're mechanically great and fun to drive.
Then I thought I could console myself by buying a Honda S2000, but nope, they quit making those in 2009. At least there should still be some around in another 10 years, but come on!
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chiver78
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Post by chiver78 on Oct 20, 2014 5:59:53 GMT -5
WWBG - obviously it was a long time ago, but it was definitely a TSX trunk on that "Accord" that I saw in Belgium. there are a couple people in my office building that drive TSXs, so I'm pretty familiar with the design. the RSX was the direct replacement for the Integra - 2001 was the last model year for the Integra, the 2002 RSX was available in early summer 2001. I bought my first one in August 2001. I haven't looked at the specs for any Acuras in awhile, since I am not seriously considering another due to price. shanendoah - I haven't been the best about doing oil changes every 3k miles, I'm definitely closer to the 5k mile marker. but still....it does sound like it will be a wash if you don't have to go as often. that's good. I looked up Valvoline/diesel oil and it looks like they do carry that, in most locations. I will definitely make sure that the local shop has that option once I figure out exactly where "local" is one of many reasons I'm not buying a car until I buy the house. Mid - wow. didn't realize the S2000 was discontinued too. have you thought about a Miata? similar size, cheaper than the S2000 too, IIRC.
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wvugurl26
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Post by wvugurl26 on Oct 20, 2014 8:49:42 GMT -5
They might have redone the dash on the Civic but the 2013 I test drove I hated the way the dash and gauges were laid out. It was just funky and too high up or something to me. The 2014 wasn't on my list because they went to a new transmission design with the 2014s. It was also too small for my liking. And while it likely won't matter that much I definitely wanted something bigger after I totaled the Impreza. Plus I have a couple 10 hour one way road trips a year, comfort is important.
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momofg
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Post by momofg on Oct 21, 2014 14:43:15 GMT -5
Manual transmissions are getting harder to find in new cars. When I was looking 2 years ago I had to buy a 2005 RAV4 since that's the last year they made a stick. I don't like to drive automatics either. I'm lucky that my commute it heading north into NH so I very rarely hit any traffic. I just wish I could have got it in 4 wheel drive instead of All wheel drive. It would help on the days it snows. NH doesn't seem to plow the highway until after the snow is done.
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nittanycheme
Established Member
Joined: Aug 8, 2011 14:26:36 GMT -5
Posts: 488
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Post by nittanycheme on Oct 21, 2014 21:29:37 GMT -5
I had a manual Subaru Legacy for about 5 years. I really liked that car, but I needed something that held more stuff, because I moved into a house and got season tickets to PSU football, so I needed something to carry more stuff for tailgating. And my DH can't drive a stick, so I got an automatic Subaru Outback 4 cylinder. I really like it - it's got comfortable seats with height adjustment, ok sound system standard and a really good one if you upgrade to the Harmin Garmin, goes great in bad weather with the AWD, I like the CVT and its option of manually shifting with the paddle shifters, and in the summer I get about 29 mph. During polar vortexes, it drops to about 27 mph. And, it carries a lot of crap. However, I do miss my Legacy - the new ones are really nice. One of my friends has a newer legacy. We both travel about 30 miles each way to work, mostly highway. The legacy actually has a bit better pickup; the outback and legacy have the same engine and the Legacy body is lighter. The WRX is lighter still. My DH has a Hyundai Elantra, automatic. Oddly enough, since it is a much smaller car, it doesn't get all that much better gas mileage than mine - about 32 mph. I actually got the car when I had a different job, where I traveled a lot of back roads that weren't always plowed very well, for a company that hardly ever closed for weather. So, I needed to be able to get to work in whatever weather. The AWD is great; my DH didn't realize why I couldn't really tell him how the roads were when I would get home from work on snowy day, and he was getting ready to leave in his older Hyundai (he worked 3rd shift) until he was finally able to drive my outback. They just go so well, and sometimes its only when you other people sliding around that you really realize how bad it is. Being able to switch to manual and use the paddle shifters is also very helpful in the snow/ice. Please note - I don't use it as an excuse to drive crazy in the snow. If it is blizzarding, no one needs to drive at 65+. There is no where most of us are going that is that important. Overall, my two subaru's have also been pretty reliable. I haven't really had to do anything to them outside of regular maintenance. But, replacing all 4 tires at once for the AWD can be $$$.
Oh, and the road I drive on now has accidents all the time. I blame in on the fact that it is an east-west highway, and so there is a lot of sun glare during the major commute times. So now I really appreciate the safety ratings.
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