2004 Volvo XC70--Yay or Nay??

[GRG a/k/a goldenrulegirl]

I have an opportunity to purchase a 2004 Volvo XC70 AWD wagon for $4500.

One owner
142K miles
AWD
Leather interior, heated front seats
Sun/moon roof
Never in an accident

Serviced at Volvo through warranty and then locally at an independent Volvo-trained mechanic.

New timing belt at 120K
Nokian tires with 20K miles on them
New exhaust system including catalytic converter in 2012
New TCM computer

Due for 142K service and oil change

Needs new left ball joint (should you change both at the same time?)
One spring has a crack
Cracked headlight
Total of above is estimated at $1500, so $6000 for a 10 year old Volvo.

Plan is to let the kids drive it.  

What say you YM experts -- Yay or Nay??

[phil5185]

I vote nay. The european performance cars need routine service, tuning, at about $1000 each time - finicky. 

The Asian cars have the opposite design goal - ie, not sporty handling but super reliability, low maintenance. (Eg, our primary vehicle has 162,000 miles and has never had a tune-up).

The cracked spring and the worn ball joints indicate that it's been knocked around a bit, you have to hit something pretty hard to break a spring.  The timing belt is good news, I change ours every 80,000,  Volvo probably changes them @ 60,000.

IMO, you could get more for your $6000 - maybe an Asian car with 100,000 miles that will get good gas mileage and give another 100,000 miles. And if your kids go away to college, you'll get way fewer car-trouble phone calls with the Asian car.

[8 Bit WWBG]

What kind of driving do you do?  If you are commuting 80 miles a day, your needs are different than if this would just do say 20 miles of sporadic local driving.

[tractor]

I like Volvos, but they can get expensive to fix. In 2004 they were still owned by Ford so you can often find the exact same part from a Ford that costs much less than one with a Volvo tag on it. I currently drive a 2007 c70 that shares many parts with the Ford escape.

However, I have never owned a Volvo that was cheap to maintain/repair. You would be better off finding another car with lower mileage, even if you have to pay a little more. While it sounds like many of the normal wear items have been replaced, you just never know. I have put $3,000 into repairs on my car in the past 6 months as it just reached 100,000 miles. I hope to get another 100,000 out of it before I need to put too much more into it. My other Volvos have easily gone over 200,000 miles before they were totaled in accidents.

So depending on how the car is driven by your kids, you can expect to pay double the price of the car in another 40-50,000 miles. They are very safe, but that safety comes at a higher than normal maintenance cost. I'd look into a 2009 Malibu, they can be had fairly cheap and are cheaper to maintain ( we own two, booth with 150,000 miles on them), great kids cars.

[zibazinski]

Nay, DF leased one and he said thank od he did because repairs and maintenance was included. Horrendous and he said he'd never own a Volvo again or even lease one. Car was in a lot for various issues, good thing for rental program but why?

[GRG a/k/a goldenrulegirl]

I agree with you all on the maintenance costs -- the unknown scares me, LOL.

So, since it would be a kids' car, I think we will pass.  They're good kids and decent drivers, but I can't guarantee they will drive it like the typical Soccer Mom or middle-age Volvo owner.  

Thank you for your insight and wisdom.  This is a very knowledgeable, helpful group.

Off to find the mythical $5,000 Honda.   

[nutty]

There are mythical Honda's but they go quick. Also the dealer websites are not updated very quickly and that is annoying. I went with dealers or lot places because I had limited access to a car.

[Nazgul Girl]

   I would shy off the Volvo purchase, and go and look at used Mazdas.   We've had four of them, and they're great cars.   They're seldom in the shop, have relatively low-cost maintenance, and as my brother says ( automotive engineer ), " Mazdas are hard to kill."  

[The Walk of the Penguin Mich]

Another no.  Neighbor has this model and has put at least 2 transmissions in it.  They are looking to unload since they just put the last one in it.

[The Walk of the Penguin Mich]

Aug 16, 2014 10:32:26 GMT -5 Nazgul Girl said:

   I would shy off the Volvo purchase, and go and look at used Mazdas.   We've had four of them, and they're great cars.   They're seldom in the shop, have relatively low-cost maintenance, and as my brother says ( automotive engineer ), " Mazdas are hard to kill."  

Unless someone does an illegal U turn and totals you.  I had a 1991 MX6 and LOVED that car.  In the 14 years I had it, the only repair I put on it was a new driver's window mechanism.  Rest was maintenance.

My insurance pay out for my totaled car was nearly $4000.  It really held its value well

[phil5185]

So, since it would be a kids' car, I think we will pass. They're good kids and decent drivers, but I can't guarantee they will drive it like the typical Soccer Mom or middle-age Volvo owner.

Nor would you want them to - 2 or 3 fender-benders and a half-dozen speeding tickets is part of the process of becoming a good middle-age driver. 

[GRG a/k/a goldenrulegirl]

Nazgul Girl and The Walk of the Penguin Mich:  We are a loyal Mazda (and Honda) family.  Mazdas are hard to kill.  I should look at some used ones.  I guess I just bought into the Volvo safety hype (which, if IIRC, was somewhat disproven years back).

Okay, off to find the mythical $5,000 Mazda...

[steph08]

My brother and I both drove Volvos throughout high school, college, and beyond. This is a result of my brother flipping my mom's Jeep when he was in high school. My dad went straight for the safest car he could find.

My brother still drives a wagon, can't remember the model, V70? maybe. My mom drives an S70 sedan. It is a 1998 and has 340,000 miles on it. Original engine and transmission. That thing won't die!

But maintenance is a huge killer - the cost to fix anything is high. That is why I bought a Toyota Camry when I decided to get a new car instead of still driving my 1996 Volvo 850. But if I had more money, I probably would have went for a Volvo. My dad is still trying to convert me back.

[skubikky]

Why are you buying them a car?
Have you considered having them work, save, and buy their own car?

[murphath]

I had a 1984 Volvo 240 for years. I finally sold it after @ 220,000 miles.  When our kids starting driving, we bought a 1990 Volvo 240.  DD1 had that car all through college/grad school/5 years of working.  When she decided to get her doctorate, she left the car with us so we drove it until it eventually died.  Loved that car because it was BUILT.  Don't know if they are still considered as safe as they once were.

[sheilaincali]

I like my Volvo XC90 (before that we had an S-60) it's a tank and drives great but maintenance is a major pain in the ass. It was fine when we lived in CA and there were Volvo dealerships near us. Where we live in MN the nearest one is 75 miles away.

Finding someone to work on it is a bit of a challenge and I have to order parts myself in advance and bring them to the mechanic since Volvo can be a PITA to deal with and don't like to sell parts to "unauthorized" parties.  The parts tend to be pretty spendy too.  $80 per light bulb for the main headlights is just the tip of the iceberg  

[Deleted]

Aug 18, 2014 7:54:55 GMT -5 skubikky said:

Why are you buying them a car?
Have you considered having them work, save, and buy their own car?

because sometimes parents want their kids to drive something beyond what they can afford.  I see no point in telling your kid they have to pay for their own car and then all they can afford is constantly breaking down.  DS1 got a car for my convenience - I didn't need to drop everything at 2pm every time to leave work, drive up to the HS, and drive him to golf practice.  also, he didn't have a job until the end of his senior year and then again, I didn't want to have to drive him to work at 5:30 at night and pick him up anywhere between 10 pm and 11:30 pm.

and then some of us just feel it's part of parenting to provide kids with a car to drive.

[skubikky]

I seem to have struck a nerve.
I get it...to each his own.

There are also some of us who believe part of parenting is having their kids earn something as important and something that is as much of a privilege as a car.
I understand the part about convenience.
We decided to forgo convenience and as we live in the country that included many miles.
Very much worth it though as with both kids we achieved the desired result.
There was a lot of motivation to earn that car and once achieved was just another way for them to have gained self confidence and responsibility.

[wvugurl26]

In my household it was very much a privilege and keys could be taken away. I didn't disrespect it just because my parents paid for it. Once I was licensed my parents didn't need to get us to school, after school activities or work. I was responsible for gas and insurance. We had a cell phone too in the early 2000s when they weren't so wide spread. It was an electronic leash.

Kids are unique but I don't think providing a car automatically makes them entitled spoiled brats. You can be appreciative and respectful of something you didn't buy yourself.

[skubikky]

Aug 19, 2014 12:20:37 GMT -5 wvugurl26 said:

In my household it was very much a privilege and keys could be taken away. I didn't disrespect it just because my parents paid for it. Once I was licensed my parents didn't need to get us to school, after school activities or work. I was responsible for gas and insurance. We had a cell phone too in the early 2000s when they weren't so wide spread. It was an electronic leash.

Kids are unique but I don't think providing a car automatically makes them entitled spoiled brats. You can be appreciative and respectful of something you didn't buy yourself.

I agree, it doesn't necessarily make them unappreciative, not at all.

We took every opportunity to instill our values in our kids.
It included earning their way, learning responsibility, and most of all building character.
That might seem extreme to other parents.
I would go on to say that giving them certain things deprives them of the chance to earn that item and thereby appreciate it that much more.
And gaining more personal satisfaction from it.    That's an intangible that is important to us.
As I said, we did get the result we were aiming for.

[Deleted]

Aug 19, 2014 12:06:25 GMT -5 skubikky said:

I seem to have struck a nerve.
I get it...to each his own.

There are also some of us who believe part of parenting is having their kids earn something as important and something that is as much of a privilege as a car.
I understand the part about convenience.
We decided to forgo convenience and as we live in the country that included many miles.
Very much worth it though as with both kids we achieved the desired result.
There was a lot of motivation to earn that car and once achieved was just another way for them to have gained self confidence and responsibility.

well that must be nice that you have a job that would allow you to just drop everything at 2 pm, not all of us do...and even though I can pretty much work my own hours, I still have meetings I need to support and not everyone schedules their meetings before 2 pm.  and since DS didn't have a job until well after golf season his senior year, he would have had $0 to buy a car.  DD didn't turn 16 until her senior year of high school and with her IB program and sports, her jobs were in the summer - her summer earnings that year paid for books and personal items at college.

amazingly enough, I was forbidden by my parents to purchase a car while in high school....they made sure if I needed to go somewhere, there was always a car for me to use.

[Deleted]

Aug 19, 2014 12:29:07 GMT -5 skubikky said:

Aug 19, 2014 12:20:37 GMT -5 wvugurl26 said:

In my household it was very much a privilege and keys could be taken away. I didn't disrespect it just because my parents paid for it. Once I was licensed my parents didn't need to get us to school, after school activities or work. I was responsible for gas and insurance. We had a cell phone too in the early 2000s when they weren't so wide spread. It was an electronic leash.

Kids are unique but I don't think providing a car automatically makes them entitled spoiled brats. You can be appreciative and respectful of something you didn't buy yourself.

I agree, it doesn't necessarily make them unappreciative, not at all.

We took every opportunity to instill our values in our kids.
It included earning their way, learning responsibility, and most of all building character.
That might seem extreme to other parents.
I would go on to say that giving them certain things deprives them of the chance to earn that item and thereby appreciate it that much more.
And gaining more personal satisfaction from it.    That's an intangible that is important to us.
As I said, we did get the result we were aiming for.

so you're implying that a parent that supplies a car for their kid is not teaching them to earn their way, learn responsibility or build character?  guess what, my parents also paid for my gas and car insurance and gave me spending money all through college too.  I seem to have turned out to be a productive member of society.

[tractor]

We live in the country too. I gave my son a nice used car to drive on the day he turned 16, it was one if the best things I have done for a while. My wife and I both work full time over 1 hour away from home, no more running to pick up the kids, no more wondering if they found a ride to/from some event. Life's good.

My son doesn't work, nor pay for gas, nor insurance. Is he a spoiled brat? I don't think so, and really don't care if someone else thinks he is. Everyone makes choices in their lives, I choose to provide my kids with everything they need to succeed. So far, so good.

[Deleted]

Aug 19, 2014 12:38:16 GMT -5 tractor said:

We live in the country too. I gave my son a nice used car to drive on the day he turned 16, it was one if the best things I have done for a while. My wife and I both work full time over 1 hour away from home, no more running to pick up the kids, no more wondering if they found a ride to/from some event. Life's good.

My son doesn't work, nor pay for gas, nor insurance. Is he a spoiled brat? I don't think so, and really don't care if someone else thinks he is. Everyone makes choices in their lives, I choose to provide my kids with everything they need to succeed. So far, so good.

did you just hear a collective YM gasp?

[tractor]

Aug 19, 2014 12:39:50 GMT -5 @singlemominmd said:

Aug 19, 2014 12:38:16 GMT -5 tractor said:

We live in the country too. I gave my son a nice used car to drive on the day he turned 16, it was one if the best things I have done for a while. My wife and I both work full time over 1 hour away from home, no more running to pick up the kids, no more wondering if they found a ride to/from some event. Life's good.

My son doesn't work, nor pay for gas, nor insurance. Is he a spoiled brat? I don't think so, and really don't care if someone else thinks he is. Everyone makes choices in their lives, I choose to provide my kids with everything they need to succeed. So far, so good.

did you just hear a collective YM gasp?

Yep, my dad did it for me, so I'm doing it for my kids. As far as I can tell, no one was hurt in the process. I also had 100% of my college paid for by my parents, some things just can't be helped.

[skubikky]

Wow....there appears to be a reading comprehension issue here.

I agree, it doesn't necessarily make them unappreciative, not at all.

[skubikky]

Aug 19, 2014 12:34:37 GMT -5 @singlemominmd said:

Aug 19, 2014 12:29:07 GMT -5 skubikky said:

I agree, it doesn't necessarily make them unappreciative, not at all.

We took every opportunity to instill our values in our kids.
It included earning their way, learning responsibility, and most of all building character.
That might seem extreme to other parents.
I would go on to say that giving them certain things deprives them of the chance to earn that item and thereby appreciate it that much more.
And gaining more personal satisfaction from it.    That's an intangible that is important to us.
As I said, we did get the result we were aiming for.

so you're implying that a parent that supplies a car for their kid is not teaching them to earn their way, learn responsibility or build character? 

No, see the first sentence above.

I was indicating that the earning and purchase of a car by a teenager is an opportunity.
It is a good thing not to miss using these opportunities as they present themselves.
In addition understand that I am not making a statement about other kids.  Only sharing what we did and that it worked to produce the results noted above.

[skubikky]

Aug 19, 2014 12:31:32 GMT -5 @singlemominmd said:

Aug 19, 2014 12:06:25 GMT -5 skubikky said:

I seem to have struck a nerve.
I get it...to each his own.

There are also some of us who believe part of parenting is having their kids earn something as important and something that is as much of a privilege as a car.
I understand the part about convenience.
We decided to forgo convenience and as we live in the country that included many miles.
Very much worth it though as with both kids we achieved the desired result.
There was a lot of motivation to earn that car and once achieved was just another way for them to have gained self confidence and responsibility.

well that must be nice that you have a job that would allow you to just drop everything at 2 pm, not all of us do...and even though I can pretty much work my own hours, I still have meetings I need to support and not everyone schedules their meetings before 2 pm.  and since DS didn't have a job until well after golf season his senior year, he would have had $0 to buy a car.  DD didn't turn 16 until her senior year of high school and with her IB program and sports, her jobs were in the summer - her summer earnings that year paid for books and personal items at college.

amazingly enough, I was forbidden by my parents to purchase a car while in high school....they made sure if I needed to go somewhere, there was always a car for me to use.

Quite a defensive response.
Nowhere in my writing was any sort of indictment regarding you personally.
You made the leap.
As I stated, struck a nerve I guess.
I was sharing my experience and insight into the situation.
Perhaps it is beyond the scope of that which you care to read in response.

[Deleted]

Aug 19, 2014 14:11:11 GMT -5 skubikky said:

Aug 19, 2014 12:31:32 GMT -5 @singlemominmd said:

well that must be nice that you have a job that would allow you to just drop everything at 2 pm, not all of us do...and even though I can pretty much work my own hours, I still have meetings I need to support and not everyone schedules their meetings before 2 pm.  and since DS didn't have a job until well after golf season his senior year, he would have had $0 to buy a car.  DD didn't turn 16 until her senior year of high school and with her IB program and sports, her jobs were in the summer - her summer earnings that year paid for books and personal items at college.

amazingly enough, I was forbidden by my parents to purchase a car while in high school....they made sure if I needed to go somewhere, there was always a car for me to use.

Quite a defensive response.
Nowhere in my writing was any sort of indictment regarding you personally.
You made the leap.
As I stated, struck a nerve I guess.
I was sharing my experience and insight into the situation.
Perhaps it is beyond the scope of that which you care to read in response.

because I am sick and tired of hearing how parents who support their kids after 18, buy them a car, pay for college, blah blah blah aren't teaching them values and that you have to work for things....and even though you posted the disclaimer of 'I agree, it doesn't necessarily make them unappreciative, not at all.' you then went on to talk about values and responsibility clearly implying that you had to do those things to teach the 'right' values.

[GRG a/k/a goldenrulegirl]

skubikky, I agree with you in principle.  But, I think there are many opportunities besides a teen job to teach a kid how to work for what they want, how to save, responsibility, etc.  

We live in an area where teen jobs are few and far between unless one has a car to drive to the mall 10 miles away.  Even with a car, both kids are too involved in sports and other extracurricular activities to add a job to their schedule.  Yet, they find many ways to "earn their keep".  For example, ODS spent 12 hours on Sunday helping DN move to a new apartment in another city -- a 4 floor walk up!!!  -- for lunch only (no pay).  I would expect that same generous spirit to continue if I buy ODS a car.  Otherwise, ODS can expect to walk everywhere.  So, he IS earning the use of a car if not via a steady paycheck.