Sam_2.0
Senior Associate
Joined: Dec 19, 2010 15:42:45 GMT -5
Posts: 12,350
|
Post by Sam_2.0 on Jun 25, 2014 16:46:05 GMT -5
My brother is trying to weigh the pros & cons of waiting for an opening at the state school for the dental hygienist program vs. going to the for-profit school and paying almost three times as much but getting the work done in half the time. His current boss said they would cover the equivalent of the state school no matter which one he chose with the requirement that he work for them for two years at a reduced salary, then would go up to the normal hygienist rate. The 18-month program at the for-profit school is almost $40k!! But they would take him now and he could be earning $23/hr sooner. He's just not sure if the extra expense is worth it. But he is fully aware of what things cost as he lives on his own now making about $12/hr and has paid for school out of pocket so far. He's 22 and has his associates finished with no debt.
|
|
achelois
Well-Known Member
Joined: Dec 19, 2010 9:55:44 GMT -5
Posts: 1,479
|
Post by achelois on Jun 25, 2014 18:21:52 GMT -5
"In this day and age - can anyone really claim "ignorance" about this stuff?" No, no excuse. But just a few short years ago remember how many adults took on adjustable rate mortgages with "no idea" that the rate was going to change?!And as for Bonny's point about "being college material" and being able to understand this prior to signing, again I agree. But is any student/child evaluated effectively to determine "college material" anymore? Pretty sure most every student and child is now told that college is not an option. I still believe in trade and vocational schools as just as valuable an option, personally. However - we roundly trounced them in super YM style! Who trounced vocational/trade schools?
|
|
cktc
Senior Member
Joined: Mar 19, 2013 22:15:31 GMT -5
Posts: 3,202
|
Post by cktc on Jun 25, 2014 18:26:17 GMT -5
The comments on the NYT article really slammed the methodology of the survey. I'm not putting much belief in its conclusions. I agree with this and I think by and large institutions do a good job of warning kids what the ramifications are. I think the core problem is that many kids don't understand personal finance. They think a $400 payment for ten years is no big deal, but they don't understand that making 25-30K/yr, with taxes, rent, health insurance, etc is really tough to begin with and that having a $400 payment is really actually painful. They also don't consider that in 5ish years they may want to have a kid or buy a house. Or that they may marry someone with higher student loans and suddenly the combined SL payment is crippling. All they see is that they really want to go to X school for X degree because they luuuurve it and they figure "everyone has SL debt" so what's the big deal. The fact that they may be living with mom/dad for years after graduation doesn't seem to enter their subconscious. I don't think it's fair, though, to call these kids stupid or to compare them to how we were when we were that age. These are kids who probably haven't worked much because the economy has been in the toilet during their teen years and getting a job was impossible. That, or things were great because their teen years were during the bubble when mom/dad was using home equity to pay for everything. Kids need to be exposed to personal finance issues well before they turn 18 so they understand the gravity of their college decision. Otherwise, it's all theory and fantasy numbers. Thanks for this. I grew up with "snowflake" money, and always assumed living on little, and having ANY job, would be enough to pay the bills. I consider myself to be fairly intelligent (most of my education was paid by scholarship) but I've never been financially motivated and the reality didn't really click for me until years after graduating. I'm one of those horrible art majors to boot! I'm handling my $40k in debt, and making extra payments, but I'll be living on little until at least 36. C'est la vie.
|
|
lazysundays
Familiar Member
http://triggur.livejournal.com/476376.html
Joined: Jun 27, 2011 21:14:01 GMT -5
Posts: 679
|
Post by lazysundays on Jun 25, 2014 18:57:10 GMT -5
The problem isn't how much debt people have, it's how many many more people now have student loan debt. These people are busy paying off their SLs in their early years instead of saving for house or retirement or as the article I read it in says, not using that $ to promote the economy by spending.
|
|
formerroomate99
Junior Associate
Joined: Sept 12, 2011 13:33:12 GMT -5
Posts: 7,381
|
Post by formerroomate99 on Jun 26, 2014 0:28:07 GMT -5
There was an article on SLATE that went into excrutiating detail about how contradictory and misleading the student loan statistics were.
One thing the government could do is shed some light on the situation. The colleges have their alumni's social security numbers, and what their majors were. The IRS has their incomes, listed occupations, and SSN's. If you merge those two datasets, one could get a pretty good idea of what a degree is worth financially. It would be a lot harder for some recruiter from Scumbag for Profit University to dupe some disadvantaged person into thinking a degree in underwater basket weaving is the path to riches.
|
|
Deleted
Joined: May 18, 2024 23:38:26 GMT -5
Posts: 0
|
Post by Deleted on Jun 26, 2014 9:59:04 GMT -5
Deleted.
|
|
busymom
Distinguished Associate
Why is the rum always gone? Oh...that's why.
Joined: Dec 25, 2010 21:09:36 GMT -5
Posts: 28,464
Mini-Profile Background: {"image":"https://cdn.nickpic.host/images/IPauJ5.jpg","color":""}
Mini-Profile Name Color: 0D317F
Mini-Profile Text Color: 0D317F
Member is Online
|
Post by busymom on Jun 26, 2014 10:08:36 GMT -5
I wish when they go through the student loans with the students, they'd give them an idea each year (as they add to their loan debt) HOW MUCH that amount of money, with that specific interest rate, translates into monthly payments.
When DD signs her papers every year, I literally have to sit her down & show her what her monthly payment might be. A dose of reality, IMHO, would go a long way in preventing these kids from overextending themselves.
|
|
The Captain
Junior Associate
Hugs are good...
Joined: Jan 4, 2011 16:21:23 GMT -5
Posts: 8,717
Location: State of confusion
Favorite Drink: Whinnnne
|
Post by The Captain on Jun 26, 2014 10:15:53 GMT -5
I wish when they go through the student loans with the students, they'd give them an idea each year (as they add to their loan debt) HOW MUCH that amount of money, with that specific interest rate, translates into monthly payments.
When DD signs her papers every year, I literally have to sit her down & show her what her monthly payment might be. A dose of reality, IMHO, would go a long way in preventing these kids from overextending themselves. I find this strange because I had to go to the offices, go through some online thingy with all that info and sign off on having gotten that info before the financial aid went through to my account. This was about 20 years ago. Same here. I knew exactly how much my monthly payment would be and how long it would take to pay off if I paid the minimum and this was close to 25-30 years ago. Maybe my bank was progressive? I shudder when I read some of these posts. DD is only 11 and we have about $65K saved so far for college (depending on how the stock market is doing). I thought $100K would be more than enough but based on some of these posts I may have to revise that thought.
|
|
alabamagal
Junior Associate
Joined: Dec 23, 2010 11:30:29 GMT -5
Posts: 8,121
|
Post by alabamagal on Jun 26, 2014 10:25:14 GMT -5
My brother is trying to weigh the pros & cons of waiting for an opening at the state school for the dental hygienist program vs. going to the for-profit school and paying almost three times as much but getting the work done in half the time. His current boss said they would cover the equivalent of the state school no matter which one he chose with the requirement that he work for them for two years at a reduced salary, then would go up to the normal hygienist rate. The 18-month program at the for-profit school is almost $40k!! But they would take him now and he could be earning $23/hr sooner. He's just not sure if the extra expense is worth it. But he is fully aware of what things cost as he lives on his own now making about $12/hr and has paid for school out of pocket so far. He's 22 and has his associates finished with no debt. This sounds like a situation where the for-profit school is a better deal since he would be earning more money faster. You could just do a cash flow analysis and see which comes out better. The caveats are that 1) he wants to do that as a career (sounds like he already is in the field), 2) he will be serious about school and pass classes and 3) that it is a job in a high demand career, pretty sure that it is and he has a job lined up.
|
|
alabamagal
Junior Associate
Joined: Dec 23, 2010 11:30:29 GMT -5
Posts: 8,121
|
Post by alabamagal on Jun 26, 2014 10:25:24 GMT -5
duplicate....
|
|
Sam_2.0
Senior Associate
Joined: Dec 19, 2010 15:42:45 GMT -5
Posts: 12,350
|
Post by Sam_2.0 on Jun 26, 2014 10:27:33 GMT -5
It's just amazing to me that the for-profit "trade" school is $40k for 18 months! He's leaning toward that option though instead of waiting another 2 years to get in at the state school. And since he's got a good job already he doesn't want to relocate.
|
|
alabamagal
Junior Associate
Joined: Dec 23, 2010 11:30:29 GMT -5
Posts: 8,121
|
Post by alabamagal on Jun 26, 2014 10:28:19 GMT -5
There was an article on SLATE that went into excrutiating detail about how contradictory and misleading the student loan statistics were.
One thing the government could do is shed some light on the situation. The colleges have their alumni's social security numbers, and what their majors were. The IRS has their incomes, listed occupations, and SSN's. If you merge those two datasets, one could get a pretty good idea of what a degree is worth financially. It would be a lot harder for some recruiter from Scumbag for Profit University to dupe some disadvantaged person into thinking a degree in underwater basket weaving is the path to riches. NO way would I want the IRS tracking down and more info than they alread do...... There is already plenty of relevant information on the internet about what salaries are per jobs, just not sorted by college.
|
|
haapai
Junior Associate
Character
Joined: Dec 20, 2010 20:40:06 GMT -5
Posts: 5,899
|
Post by haapai on Jun 26, 2014 13:05:43 GMT -5
That relevant information suffers from a huge non-reporting bias and is frequently disseminated by entities that have no interest getting a more complete picture.
Merging data sets by using social security numbers as the unique identifier would probably yield very different results. All that ick and misery that somehow gets lost due to non-response or starting with lists of graduates instead of matriculants would start showing up.
Schools are damn lucky that laws and customs prevent such research from being done.
|
|
haapai
Junior Associate
Character
Joined: Dec 20, 2010 20:40:06 GMT -5
Posts: 5,899
|
Post by haapai on Jun 26, 2014 13:36:16 GMT -5
Is the for-profit school local? If so, why is there such a shortage of hygenists that dentists are paying to send people to school instead of hiring the graduates of the for-profit school?
|
|
Sam_2.0
Senior Associate
Joined: Dec 19, 2010 15:42:45 GMT -5
Posts: 12,350
|
Post by Sam_2.0 on Jun 26, 2014 13:54:03 GMT -5
He manages the dental office billing now, so the dentist is offering to pay for hygienist school for him. Not sure that's a normal practice. But he's done a great job of bringing their collections up to date and bringing in more money for the office, so the dentist is very happy with his work and wants to keep him. Honestly, he could probably get 1/2 the cost of the for-profit school covered. He will keep working for the dental office too (the state school forbids outside employment during their 2.5 yr program).
|
|
movingforward
Junior Associate
Joined: Sept 15, 2011 12:48:31 GMT -5
Posts: 8,363
|
Post by movingforward on Jun 26, 2014 14:14:22 GMT -5
He manages the dental office billing now, so the dentist is offering to pay for hygienist school for him. Not sure that's a normal practice. But he's done a great job of bringing their collections up to date and bringing in more money for the office, so the dentist is very happy with his work and wants to keep him. Honestly, he could probably get 1/2 the cost of the for-profit school covered. He will keep working for the dental office too ( the state school forbids outside employment during their 2.5 yr program). I still have a hard time figuring out how a school can forbid a grown ass adult from working. I have heard this from other people too... I sort of get in medical or law school but that's about it.
|
|
Sam_2.0
Senior Associate
Joined: Dec 19, 2010 15:42:45 GMT -5
Posts: 12,350
|
Post by Sam_2.0 on Jun 26, 2014 14:15:59 GMT -5
Me too! I guess they will expell you if they find out you were working. It's like they WANT people to be in more debt.
|
|