NastyWoman
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Post by NastyWoman on Mar 27, 2014 14:44:32 GMT -5
She just can't seem to shut up so maybe we should rehash this again as well: www.cnn.com/2014/03/26/justice/dottie-sandusky-interview/index.html?hpt=ju_c2Ms. Dotty do you remember that assistant coach that did walk in by any chance? But we know it is all about how others can get money so they lie, and boo hoo hoo it is so hard on you and your kids. Now I actually do feel for your kids, but not even close to as much as for those "gold diggers" What does this woman expect to accomplish with her interviews etc.? Discuss
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NomoreDramaQ1015
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Post by NomoreDramaQ1015 on Mar 27, 2014 14:48:53 GMT -5
I've seen it with the case against my former pediatrician. The mental gymnastics some people will do to avoid facing facts is astounding.
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Tennesseer
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Post by Tennesseer on Mar 27, 2014 14:52:30 GMT -5
Tough (for some) to accept the idea their marriage and life together was all a lie.
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midjd
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Post by midjd on Mar 27, 2014 14:53:01 GMT -5
So, it wasn't like he took boys and took them to the shower... but, after their workouts, he and the boys went and took a shower... OK. On one hand child molestation is something that I think 99.99% of the population can universally agree is WRONG. More so than murder, kidnapping, etc. So having a spouse accused/tried/convicted of that would be awful. Not only do you lose your marriage and the life you built together, but you get no support or empathy from anyone. But you know what's more awful? Being in a vulnerable position as a child and molested by an older person you trust. And then having to give statements and go through it all again 20 years later. And then, more years later, having to listen to apologist idiots like her saying it didn't happen and that you're making it all up. I can't imagine how she thinks she's going to garner any sympathy for him by going on the public circuit. If I were her I'd go back to my maiden name and try to fade into the background.
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swamp
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Post by swamp on Mar 28, 2014 10:51:40 GMT -5
I've seen it with the case against my former pediatrician. The mental gymnastics some people will do to avoid facing facts is astounding.
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Sam_2.0
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Post by Sam_2.0 on Mar 28, 2014 10:53:55 GMT -5
this isn't even about him anymore - it is about her and her failings. Her failing all these boys. If she for one minute considered that this happened - her culpability in it would overwhelm her. She won't even let herself consider it. It happened with my grandparents. They would never believe that their son could do such things to his nieces & nephews. So it just didn't happen. They defend him to this day. Thankfully my uncle is dead now and can't hurt anyone else, but I am pretty sure we showed up to the funeral just to make sure he was dead. My grandpa posted a pic of him the other day on FB with a caption about how much my uncle had loved his nieces & nephews and surely would love their kids now as well. I about lost it, but refrained from posting what I really wanted to about him.
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NomoreDramaQ1015
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Post by NomoreDramaQ1015 on Mar 28, 2014 10:57:23 GMT -5
It's been really sad to watch how easy it is for some people to blame the child. It's more palatable to some to believe the kid is the one with the problem than face that a respected leader of the community is a pervert.
B/c if we accept the leader is a pervert then we need to ask ourselves some hard questions and face some very unpleasant realities when it it comes to the world we live in.
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swamp
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Post by swamp on Mar 28, 2014 11:18:31 GMT -5
this isn't even about him anymore - it is about her and her failings. Her failing all these boys. If she for one minute considered that this happened - her culpability in it would overwhelm her. She won't even let herself consider it. It happened with my grandparents. They would never believe that their son could do such things to his nieces & nephews. So it just didn't happen. They defend him to this day. Thankfully my uncle is dead now and can't hurt anyone else, but I am pretty sure we showed up to the funeral just to make sure he was dead. My grandpa posted a pic of him the other day on FB with a caption about how much my uncle had loved his nieces & nephews and surely would love their kids now as well. I about lost it, but refrained from posting what I really wanted to about him.
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swamp
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Post by swamp on Mar 28, 2014 11:20:30 GMT -5
It's been really sad to watch how easy it is for some people to blame the child. It's more palatable to some to believe the kid is the one with the problem than face that a respected leader of the community is a pervert. B/c if we accept the leader is a pervert then we need to ask ourselves some hard questions and face some very unpleasant realities when it it comes to the world we live in. They always blame the kids.
I was talking to a potential client and a family member was with him. The family member remarked that the alleged victims "were very promiscuous, had behavior problems, and shouldn't be believed." Um, yeah, girls who are sexually abused as young teens/tweens are often promiscuous and act out...........
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NomoreDramaQ1015
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Post by NomoreDramaQ1015 on Mar 28, 2014 11:25:25 GMT -5
My MIL told me that the pediatrican's 4 year old granddaughter was "sick in the head" and "her parents probably coached her to say what she did".
I lost a lot of respect for my MIL that day. Also lost a ton of respect for my SIL.
It's really amazing what you learn about people during situations like this.
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Deleted
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Post by Deleted on Mar 28, 2014 11:26:59 GMT -5
OMG drama... i can't even imagine.
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NomoreDramaQ1015
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Post by NomoreDramaQ1015 on Mar 28, 2014 11:28:50 GMT -5
DH shut the lid on that conversation fast. I was about ready to punch her lights out b/c we have a 3 year old daughter ourselves. It's not something I'll ever bring up in conversation but you can't unlearn some stuff about people.
SIL was worse, I had to block her from my facebook page before I said something that would start WWIII
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midjd
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Post by midjd on Mar 28, 2014 11:29:37 GMT -5
this isn't even about him anymore - it is about her and her failings. Her failing all these boys. If she for one minute considered that this happened - her culpability in it would overwhelm her. She won't even let herself consider it. It happened with my grandparents. They would never believe that their son could do such things to his nieces & nephews. So it just didn't happen. They defend him to this day. Thankfully my uncle is dead now and can't hurt anyone else, but I am pretty sure we showed up to the funeral just to make sure he was dead. My grandpa posted a pic of him the other day on FB with a caption about how much my uncle had loved his nieces & nephews and surely would love their kids now as well. I about lost it, but refrained from posting what I really wanted to about him. I admire your restraint. I would not have been able to keep from making a smartass comment about his "love." I'm so sorry for everyone who has had to go through something like this.
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Nazgul Girl
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Post by Nazgul Girl on Mar 28, 2014 13:04:22 GMT -5
Poor old Dottie. Gosh. Poor old Jerry's in his cell 23 hours a day, huh ? She's lucky that no one has offed him in prison as of yet. It happens to molesters sometimes.
As for family members in denial about child rapists, I don't believe in sheltering them from the truth. Anyone who knowingly posts a picture of a family member who is a rapist on a facebook page deserves everything they could get. I don't care if they're grandpa and grandma or not.
As far as the pediatrician thing, absolutely you should speak up. It happens with pediatricians, too. It's vile, disgusting, and tragic for the victims. I don't see why anything blaming the victim should be tolerated.
Sorry that these things have happened to the victims.
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NomoreDramaQ1015
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Post by NomoreDramaQ1015 on Mar 28, 2014 13:20:39 GMT -5
I believe Jerry is in solitary confinement. They don't generally let those people out into general population. Though I think they should and do the taxpayers a favor.
We did speak up with my MIL and I said my piece to SIL. But at the end of the day they were convinced they were right.
To be fair to my MIL she did change her mind once it came to light child porn was discovered on the pediatrician's home computer and she apologized to DH for what she said.
What really sickens me are the bozos who stood around with picket signs at the courthouse.
Let's say on off chance you're right about it being wrongful charges. This is still a family torn apart and it is none of your freaking business, leave them alone to heal. If you are wrong then you are victimizing that pooor child all over again and you need to mind your own business.
It got so out of hand the case was moved to the federal courthouse. So far no more news b/c they are having a hell of a time finding impartial jurists, he's been the pediatrican of damn near everyone in town. Even the DA had to step down b/c he uses that clinic.
I told DH I never used to understand why these things are so under-reported. Now I do. What that child and her parents are going thru is just awful.
His son also lost his practice b/c they were in the same clinic and the hospital didn't want the stigma. I also know a lot of stupid people who said "like father like son" and refused to use the son's practice.
It's ruined a lot of lives. I don't see how anyone can think the son and granddaughter made this up for a sick lark.
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Nazgul Girl
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Post by Nazgul Girl on Mar 28, 2014 13:23:35 GMT -5
I believe Jerry is in solitary confinement. They don't generally let those people out into general population. Though I think they should and do the taxpayers a favor. We did speak up with my MIL and I said my piece to SIL. But at the end of the day they were convinced they were right. To be fair to my MIL she did change her mind once it came to light child porn was discovered on the pediatrician's home computer and she apologized to DH for what she said. What really sickens me are the bozos who stood around with picket signs at the courthouse. Let's say on off chance you're right about it being wrongful charges. This is still a family torn apart and it is none of your freaking business, leave them alone to heal. If you are wrong then you are victimizing that pooor child all over again and you need to mind your own business. It got so out of hand the case was moved to the federal courthouse. So far no more news b/c they are having a hell of a time finding impartial jurists, he's been the pediatrican of damn near everyone in town. Even the DA had to step down b/c he uses that clinic. Good God. I wonder how many *other* victims he's molested ? Probably quite a few. It could be up in the hundreds. Burning at the stake is too good for him. We had a pediatrician at our hospital that was found to have been lewd with the teenager ( underaged ) next door to him. He's now serving a sentence at the state penitentiary. Disgusting. It was like a third or fourth degree criminal offence, but it's still disgusting.
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NomoreDramaQ1015
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Post by NomoreDramaQ1015 on Mar 28, 2014 13:24:59 GMT -5
It has nothing to do with the practice. I read the affidavit. It was his 4 year old granddaughter he was molesting.
I'm going to assume since nobody has heard anything the porn probably did not have anything to do with the practice either. That would have made headlines.
Not that that makes it better, I just wanted to explain what happened.
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cronewitch
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Post by cronewitch on Mar 28, 2014 13:30:01 GMT -5
this isn't even about him anymore - it is about her and her failings. Her failing all these boys. If she for one minute considered that this happened - her culpability in it would overwhelm her. She won't even let herself consider it. It happened with my grandparents. They would never believe that their son could do such things to his nieces & nephews. So it just didn't happen. They defend him to this day. Thankfully my uncle is dead now and can't hurt anyone else, but I am pretty sure we showed up to the funeral just to make sure he was dead. My grandpa posted a pic of him the other day on FB with a caption about how much my uncle had loved his nieces & nephews and surely would love their kids now as well. I about lost it, but refrained from posting what I really wanted to about him. My brother had two little girls his ex wife sent to her parents in the summer. Grandma gave them to uncle to babysit. Girls complained he pulled down their panties, so mom told grandma never leave them with her brother. Grandma didn't believe her boy could do something wrong with his nieces. Later uncle married women with children and went to jail for molesting them, my nieces were happy he was in jail. Not sure what he did to the girls but whatever he did was wrong, girls knew it was wrong but not really how to complain like adults. Same girls had complained step dad was mean to them. When asked what he did that was mean they told my mom he made them eat food they didn't like and go to bed when they weren't tired. Our parents did that to us so they didn't do anything about it, when girls were grown they report step dad was worse than that. Mom married another step dad for them about 35 years ago and the girls adore him, he is elderly now in a wheel chair but gave them away at weddings instead of my brother who was their but step dad was honored more.
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swamp
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Post by swamp on Mar 28, 2014 13:37:28 GMT -5
I told DH I never used to understand why these things are so under-reported. Now I do. What that child and her parents are going thru is just awful. I totally understand it.
If I was victimized like that, or my child was, I'm not sure I would pursue charges.
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NomoreDramaQ1015
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Post by NomoreDramaQ1015 on Mar 28, 2014 13:44:45 GMT -5
Yeah I want to punch people who talk about how well our pediatrican is doing despite all this. Seriously?! How about applauding the guts it took for a son to report his own father? This has torn the family apart, he lost his practice and has become a social pariah in Council Bluffs. He did the right thing both legally/professionally and by his daughter. That took a lot of guts. People don't seem to get that by law a pediatrician has to report potential sexual abuse. How horrible to have it be your own child. That's basically what I posted back to my SIL who was thinking about going down to the courthouse to join the protestors. Dipshit.
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Post by Deleted on Mar 28, 2014 13:45:51 GMT -5
Dipshit is a very kind word in this context...
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Sam_2.0
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Post by Sam_2.0 on Mar 28, 2014 13:51:16 GMT -5
Just easier to cut them out of my life. I have grandpa on FB and severely restricted in what he can see/post to my wall. They will never have a relationship with my daughter. In some cases, avoidance is really the best answer. I get why it goes un-reported. Most kids tell an adult they think they can trust, but the adult does not believe them. If one didn't believe you, why would another? Especially if the adult that was originally told makes the child feel like they did something wrong and that they will be in trouble if they tell anyone else. I am scared to death to let my daughter go anywhere
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NomoreDramaQ1015
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Post by NomoreDramaQ1015 on Mar 28, 2014 13:54:45 GMT -5
. Most kids tell an adult they think they can trust, but the adult does not believe them. If one didn't believe you, why would another? Especially if the adult that was originally told makes the child feel like they did something wrong and that they will be in trouble if they tell anyone else.The one "good" thing that came out of this is that it sparked a conversation between DH and me. As unpleasant as it was it really forced us to examine our views on the subject and truly discuss what we'd do in an event like this. It also, as bad as this is to say, does make you look at people cross-eyed. I tell myself I can't let our lives be ruled by fear but geez louise this case shows you really don't know who people are behind closed doors.
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genericname
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Post by genericname on Mar 28, 2014 14:05:49 GMT -5
As a "hardened" investigator of this type of crime, I can say that these delusional people need to watch the forensic interviews of the victims. Hearing the victim's stories from their own mouths still makes me cry sometimes, which is why I am glad I am not a qualified forensic interviewer. I can watch it from the other room. The 4 year old in Drama's case was carefully interviewed by a professional, I am sure. The child porn on the pediatrician's computer is a telling sign. There is still much to learn, but studies with convicted offenders point toward a greater than 90% hands-on offender rate among those with child porn in their possession.
It is underreported because of a-holes like Dottie and the investigators who blow off the victims. Unfortunately, victims are still far too often blamed, even by law enforcement. It makes me want to blow away the perps personally sometimes.
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Virgil Showlion
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Post by Virgil Showlion on Mar 28, 2014 15:34:30 GMT -5
Why do you suppose investigators "blow off the victims"? Let's assume the typical police investigator cares about justice, and is neither lazy nor incompetent. We expect such an investigator to have a sensible (possibly not moral, but at least sensible) reason for disregarding a serious claim like child molestation or child rape. One possibility already suggested is that investigators blame the children for somehow inciting the molestation. But if this is the case, law enforcement officials' views on the culpability of the child are (for no reason I can think of) extraordinarily divorced from the views of the entire rest of society. I defy you to find anyone anywhere who would blame child molestation on the child. So let us assume that police investigators aren't exceptionally child-averse, molester-sympathizing individuals compared to the public at large, and consider other reasons why investigators might "blow off the victims". A second possibility is that you have no idea what you're talking about; that police investigators in fact don't generally "blow off" victims or do anything close to it, and you're just parroting hearsay or anecdotal evidence because it "seems right" to you. But since I have no idea whether or not this is the case, let's also assume you know what you're talking about and this is a genuine systemic problem. This leaves us with the possibility that law officials disregard such cases because they know they're powerless to do anything about them. I imagine that proving child molestation would be difficult to do, especially in cases where the child is in the custody of the molester. Hence "blowing off" victims' claims might simply be the harsh reality of our beyond-a-reasonable-doubt justice system, where investigators cut their losses early if a molestation charge is doomed to go nowhere due to lack of evidence, etc. A final possibility to consider is that investigators frequently come across false allegations of molestation. Possibly by rebellious, malcontent, or mentally ill children. Possibly by parties with influence over children who coach them to lie in order to hurt other parties and/or effect favourable terms in legal battles. Possibly by children who've learned to use allegations of molestation as a means to blackmail authority figures. Possibly by children who invent them to engender pity, or to excuse their own sexual misconduct towards others. But regardless of the reason, we must consider the possibility that investigators (and law enforcement, more generally) run into a lot of them. I don't know. I suspect that nobody here except possibly swamp has a clue about the answer--and even in her case, I'm not sure how she could reliably determine the number of phony claims investigators have to deal with. So why do investigators "blow off the victims"? Is this claim even true? Do they do it for sensible reasons? Are they just exceptionally jaded, cynical, lazy people?
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Shooby
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Post by Shooby on Mar 28, 2014 15:45:48 GMT -5
Yeah. She just needs to shut up.
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swamp
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Post by swamp on Mar 28, 2014 15:50:23 GMT -5
Why do you suppose investigators "blow off the victims"? Let's assume the typical police investigator cares about justice, and is neither lazy nor incompetent. We expect such an investigator to have a sensible (possibly not moral, but at least sensible) reason for disregarding a serious claim like child molestation or child rape. One possibility already suggested is that investigators blame the children for somehow inciting the molestation. But if this is the case, law enforcement officials' views on the culpability of the child are (for no reason I can think of) extraordinarily divorced from the views of the entire rest of society. I defy you to find anyone anywhere who would blame child molestation on the child. So let us assume that police investigators aren't exceptionally child-averse, molester-sympathizing individuals compared to the public at large, and consider other reasons why investigators might "blow off the victims". A second possibility is that you have no idea what you're talking about; that police investigators in fact don't generally "blow off" victims or do anything close to it, and you're just parroting hearsay or anecdotal evidence because it "seems right" to you. But since I have no idea whether or not this is the case, let's also assume you know what you're talking about and this is a genuine systemic problem. This leaves us with the possibility that law officials disregard such cases because they know they're powerless to do anything about them. I imagine that proving child molestation would be difficult to do, especially in cases where the child is in the custody of the molester. Hence "blowing off" victims' claims might simply be the harsh reality of our beyond-a-reasonable-doubt justice system, where investigators cut their losses early if a molestation charge is doomed to go nowhere due to lack of evidence, etc. A final possibility to consider is that investigators frequently come across false allegations of molestation. Possibly by rebellious, malcontent, or mentally ill children. Possibly by parties with influence over children who coach them to lie in order to hurt other parties and/or effect favourable terms in legal battles. Possibly by children who've learned to use allegations of molestation as a means to blackmail authority figures. Possibly by children who invent them to engender pity, or to excuse their own sexual misconduct towards others. But regardless of the reason, we must consider the possibility that investigators (and law enforcement, more generally) run into a lot of them. I don't know. I suspect that nobody here except possibly swamp has a clue about the answer--and even in her case, I'm not sure how she could reliably determine the number of phony claims investigators have to deal with. So why do investigators "blow off the victims"? Is this claim even true? Do they do it for sensible reasons? Are they just exceptionally jaded, cynical, lazy people? Hang out with me in family court on abuse/neglect day and I'll show you people who blame sex abuse on the kid. And it's not the cops that don't believe the kids, it's the patents, the family, the neighbors, the juries.
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Virgil Showlion
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Post by Virgil Showlion on Mar 28, 2014 16:32:00 GMT -5
Why, though?
You're saying that if a child takes the stand (I don't know if they have a witness box in family court, but whatever) and testifies that Mr. X did such and such to him, the near-universal reaction is not to believe the testimony? Why? Just because they don't want to believe it's possible?
Or is it for a more sensible reason such as the child's inability to keep his/her testimony straight, or being caught in a lie, or having a long history of lies and misbehaving?
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Sam_2.0
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Post by Sam_2.0 on Mar 28, 2014 16:34:30 GMT -5
I can't imagine putting a child through testifying. I would guess, no data to support just MO, that it's hard for those pressing charges or investigating to put a child in that position.
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Nazgul Girl
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Post by Nazgul Girl on Mar 28, 2014 16:35:18 GMT -5
Why, though? You're saying that if a child takes the stand (I don't know if they have a witness box in family court, but whatever) and testifies that Mr. X did such and such to him, the near-universal reaction is not to believe the testimony? Why? Just because they don't want to believe it's possible? Or is it for a more sensible reason such as the child's inability to keep his/her testimony straight, or being caught in a lie, or having a long history of lies and misbehaving? Ummmm, I'm speechless. You just don't get it, I don't think.
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