Private vs Public HS

[zibazinski]

Jan 24, 2014 14:14:24 GMT -5 minnesotapaintlady said:

Jan 24, 2014 14:11:59 GMT -5 zibazinski said:

Seriously? Just that? Ridiculous.

Well, she did tell someone to "kiss my a$$"

And she started posting only a couple days later, so I don't think she got a whole week off.

Oh, that's a bit different. I told someone who was yanking me about abuse to F off. Not my finest moment and I just had to leave the whole thread alone. Way too painful. I'm surprised my nemesis didnt use that as an excuse to flex their little mod muscle but they must have missed it. I'm sure they can go back and look for it. No statute of limitations!

[NancysSummerSip]

Jan 24, 2014 14:16:42 GMT -5 The Captain said:

Ok, so I started an unintentional shit storm, sorry!

I hate to say this, but DH and I are actually considering moving.  I HATE that it's come to this.  I grew up in a very integrated area, and while not perfect, we did not have the kind of stuff I see today.  Or who knows, maybe I'm more in tune to it as an adult but I don't think I was THAT sheltered.

Like I said, I will not sacrafice DD's education as some point in a social experiment, but I feel crappy for thinking about joining the local "flight" crowd.   AND I will say that it really sucks that it's come to this point because of social experiements or PC crap in other areas.   

And why should you sacrifice anything when it comes to your kid's education? That has a lot of bearing on the rest of their life. And no, don't allow yourself to be guilted by anyone, here or elsewhere into becoming a social experiment, or be made to feel like a crap parent for not doing your alleged part in putting more into your public schools. I'm all for making things better when there are ways and means to make it happen. But I'm more than willing to stop short at putting my (imaginary) kid into harm's way, if such harm exists in a school. Or putting them into an average school setting, when I know they can do better and better is available.

[Opti]

Jan 24, 2014 14:11:59 GMT -5 zibazinski said:

Jan 24, 2014 14:09:18 GMT -5 midjd said:

She got a 1-week vacation for posting something about how the posters who said they wouldn't replace a kid's lost iPhone didn't love their kids...

Seriously? Just that? Ridiculous.

I think it was a little more than that. It was removed, but she bashed a
poster directly. Think it was Honeybbq.

[giramomma]

Crap.. I just lost my whole post. It was good, too.

Here it is. We do private school. Because I believe what was good enough for me 20 years ago is no longer good enough for my kids. It's nice to say that I got by with some limited options. I also grew up with not having the internet or needing technology to do my school work. Does that mean I should tell my kids they aren't allowed to use any technology beyond a solar calculator to do their homework (ie, no computer.) Maybe I should rant that the dumb libraries are doing away with card catalogs! And when computer generated reports are required, I'll tell the teachers, "No way! My kids will hand write their reports, thank-you-very-much. There's no need to be able to use technology. I grew up just fine and even got my masters without having to rely on technology."

Yes, out of school experiences are important. But, visiting museums, travel, and knitting and lego clubs at the library aren't going to make up for a poor education.

I believe that my job is to get my kids in a position to compete. Whether it's for a place in college (or plumber's school) or for a job. My alma mater is not looking for freshman that are "adequate and have limited experience." Most employers don't want to hire someone who's "adequate and has limited experience." To think my kids won't have to compete for anything, is foolish.

I support the public schools. I pay my taxes, I donate school supplies to the poor kids. And as soon as my schedule frees up a little, I'm going to volunteer there too. It's just not the right choice for my kids. Interestingly enough, none of the kids in our neighborhood go to the local neighbhorhood school. In fact, we had one family leave because they were so disappointed in the school. My neighbhors are not rich, infact, they have more means than us. (One of them is a public school teacher..)

As for college, we asked the grands to contribute to 529s vs. buying them a ton of crap for birthdays and Christmas. It's been a win-win for everyone.

[muttleynfelix]

Jan 24, 2014 14:17:06 GMT -5 midjd said:

At any rate, the Captain started this thread to ask opinions about a specific selection of schools in her area, so I'm not sure the quality/caliber of public schools in Shooby's area or anywhere else is really relevant to the original question...

Not wanting your kid to go to a school where they have to fear for their physical safety and where the academics are clearly substandard doesn't make someone elitist (or only wanting "the best,") and doesn't equate to "public school bashing."

And on a side note, I'm truly jealous of the number of AP courses offered in some of your areas. My HS had 2 AP classes, and they weren't able to fit them into the regular schedule so we had to be at school from 6:45 - 3:30!

At least you had AP courses.  

That said, not having AP courses didn't hold me back at all.  I had to take a few more classes in college than others because I had to take EVERYTHING in my course catalog instead of coming in with credits. I still graduated in 4 years. I had 3.5 GPA with a BS in Civil Engineering.  You don't need to have AP or Honors to be successful after high school. BUT our teachers constantly told us that going to college, we weren't going to be the best. We were going to have to work a little harder.  It was going to be a little tougher for us not coming in with that experience.  Out of my class of 70 students, we have Engineers, a Speech Pathologist, an Audiologist, IT professionals, bankers, and teachers. We also have a funeral home director, beauticians, a cop, SAHMs, and pretty much everything in between. So it isn't like it was just me that had success.  But again, we DID NOT HAVE GANGS.  We didn't really have a drug problem - there were people who did them, but they were few and far between. Now a drinking problem, well that a lot more likely and a lot more accessible. 

[steph08]

My public high school wasn't awesome by any stretch of the imagination, but it isn't anything like the ones being described on this thread.

It's a small, rural public school with about 1,000 kids in kindergarten through 12th grade. I think when we were in kindergarten, we were one of the largest classes at 110 or so. We graduated about 92.

On the last day of school, it was common for kids to drive their tractors to school.

We only had AP English and History, and no one ever took the AP tests for college credit.

Our sports consisted of football, basketball, volleyball, cross country, and track. After I graduated, they added baseball and softball.

There were no gangs. There were cliques, but nothing too crazy. I remember a few fights in the hallways - kicking/punching - we never feared for our safety.

Some girls got pregnant/had babies. Most were from the poorer/divorced families; the shocker was one of the girls who thought she was super popular and above the rest of us who got pregnant at 15. She has a teenager at the age when the rest of us are just having babies - that blows my mind.

Some kids smoked pot. Some drank. We'd hear rumors about a kid who had to have his stomach pumped, etc. That wasn't "my crowd" so I don't know the true story. I never heard about any drugs besides those.

I went to school with the same people from the time I was 5 (4 if we went to preschool together) until the time I was 17 and graduated.

A small school allowed me to be friends (as much as a teenger can) with my teachers. It allowd me to get help if I needed. And because my teacher knew me personally, I worked harder to get good grades and impress them.

I'm sure my school's test scores are below average; I really don't know because I don't place much weight with those things. Just thinking through the top of the class (mostly who I associated with), there isn't a one without an advanced degree (MA, MS, lawyer, opthamologist, physical therapist). Thinking of others in my grouping of friends, almost all of them went on to college and graduated. Others make livings do things I would never want to do - coal mining, etc.

We are all pretty much successful in life. I don't know if the school did that or if that is how we were raised or how we are naturally.

When our kid is born and starts kindergarten in 5 years, he/she will be the third generation of my family to attend that school district (fourth if you count my grandfather's education through 8th grade at a school that merged into this one). It might not be the "best" school, but it has served us pretty well.

[NomoreDramaQ1015]

My HS was really bad in the 80's and early 90's.  I wouldn't have sent Gwen there if I could avoid it.  It was so bad kids from the other  two HS used to call students there "River rats" (it's on the Missouri River side of town).

It was totally different by the time I went.   It's continued to change since, now they partner with UNMC to offer lab internships to students interested in pursuing science. Man I wish they'd had that when I was there! 

They've expanded the technical programs and have expanded their partnership with IWCC to where now you could almost be done with 2 yrs of college by the time you finish HS.  It was just getting started when I was there.

DH and I are butting heads because he was in school during the River Rat days so he considered my alma mater to be a POS school and refuses to send our kid there.  I'm operating on somewhat more recent information since I graduated in 2002.

It's been interesting. Fortunately we're a long way away from really having to discuss it.

[The Captain]

Jan 24, 2014 15:18:24 GMT -5 steph08 said:

On the last day of school, it was common for kids to drive their tractors to school.


When our kid is born and starts kindergarten in 5 years, he/she will be the third generation of my family to attend that school district (fourth if you count my grandfather's education through 8th grade at a school that merged into this one). It might not be the "best" school, but it has served us pretty well.

That so totally rocks!!!

As for the rest, I will be the first to admit there is more to a "good" school environment then just strong academics.  It sounds like a place where everyone knows everyone else.  That could be good or bad .

[luckyme]

I think if you are of the mind, that anyone can succeed no matter what their circumstances, then you put your kids in the public school system.  

Put your money where you're mouth is.

However, if you are not so inclined, and the public schools really suck, then you can chose to do whatever works best for you.

That is what almost everyone does anyway.

That being said, our area has huge numbers of reduced/free lunch populations, 99% of the school in some cases.  YET, our HS honors is one of the best programs in the area.  The very expensive private school actually modeled their curriculum after it.  So I had no problem w/ my kids going to public schools.  

You can't isolate them from everything, and the private schools here are non diverse; basically wealthy white people.  

[Sum Dum Gai]

You can't isolate them from everything, and the private schools here are non diverse; basically wealthy white people.

In a lot of ways diversity is overrated.  I could give two shits what color people are.  I'm not really all that interested in economic diversity though.  I'd rather my kids learn about gang bangers by watching the news, not going to school with them everyday.  If they aren't as well rounded as some kid that goes to school in the ghetto I can live with that.

[The Captain]

Jan 24, 2014 15:21:02 GMT -5 @anne81 said:

Captain - one of the things I would look at is the financial health of the private school.  How is their endowment?  Can you read the minutes of the board meetings?  Are there any capital campaigns coming up?

Also - can you sit in on classes outside of the tours to get a sense of their teaching philosophy/style and how your daughter would fit in?  Try to see if you can attend the parent/school meetings as well.  DS' school has at least once a week it seems where they tackle different parts of how the school functions like the use of technology in the classroom, educational philosophy, how they encourage students to resolve conflicts.

What is the college prep offered?  Do they have a class focused on writing college essays?  Do they bring recruiters on campus?  Does your college counselor at the school have relationships with admissions officers at various colleges?  What is their record on helping students find a good fit, not just the most prestigious school?  How many colleges do they expect the kids to apply to and what is the process?

What is their educational focus?  Are they project based or teacher based instruction?  To what level do they encourage children to become independent?  For example one of the schools I toured made it clear at the high school level that contacting parents is pretty much the last option, unless it's health related.  They expected the kids to negotiate with the teachers and administration on their own in high school as prep for college. 

Whelp Annie7 sounds like you've given more some more homework to do.  I didn't even know there were different types of instruction . Good points all and thank you for getting me to think about them.

To be honest, the endowment sucks.  The schools' property and plant is a few decades behind the local public HS.  There is no pool, weight room, fancy computer lab etc.  We will likely go to the open house this weekend, but based on talking to the parents of students in the school (DD's classmates have older brothers and sisters there) you go for the environment and instruction, not for the extras.

[luckyme]

In a lot of ways diversity is overrated. I could give two shits what color people are. I'm not really all that interested in economic diversity though. I'd rather my kids learn about gang bangers by watching the news, not going to school with them everyday. If they aren't as well rounded as some kid that goes to school in the ghetto I can live with that.



Does that mean you're one of the "wealthy white people"?  

[Sum Dum Gai]

Does that mean you're one of the "wealthy white people"?

HAHAHAhahaahahahah.  Dude, college kids have more disposable income than I do right now.

However, kind of.  We're in the cheaper part of the snobby side of town.  Our kids go to the "good" schools, but they're not the richer kids there.  Well, they weren't when I had my old job, now they're like super poor.  We're that family that gets school lunch assistance and makes the good school look bad.

[giramomma]

Jan 24, 2014 15:30:00 GMT -5 luckyme said:

You can't isolate them from everything, and the private schools here are non diverse; basically wealthy white people. 

No. I don't pretend to. There's a huge cyber-bully problem, apparently at our school in the middle school grades.

My kids aren't isolated from everything. We didn't move into housing that wasn't quasi-ghetto until we were in our mid 30's. Sure, our kids saw kids that looked different from them in our neighborhood. In our first house, a mom and toddler got shot a few blocks away from us. Another few blocks away, there was the biggest drug bust in our county. We saw people doing drugs on the street.

I would like, however, for my kids to be able to be in a class where all of the kids read at grade level. I don't think that's too much to ask for. And, if I have to pay for private school for that, then so be it. It's either that or buy a 350K-500K house. (We gross about 70K). I figured paying for private school was a little less risky than buying a house that was worth 6-7x our gross income.

[raeoflyte]

Interesting thread. I think shooby must have been channeling prior threads that bash public school and decided to pre-emptively bash private? I know I've done that once or twice.

Diversity is important to me because we're a pretty diverse family in some ways and I don't want my kids to be the *only* freaks. Going to the religious private schools was pretty much out of the question because of that-and money because we're poor freaks.

That said our current home public school isn't a good fit. The highschool stats are similar to thecaptains post. In elementary school 97% of the kids are on free lunch. To qualify for reduced lunch you have to have a family of 4 on $43k a year, free lunch is even less. Now we're poor (which is why we bought a house here), but we're not that poor and its just plain crazy that my kids would be considered the rich kids.

The school is heavily esl which I don't mind, but changes the elementary focus. Test scores are abysmal. Not bad, but abysmal. Added to it that one of dh's bff teaches at the charter school by us-so families that put in more effort to get the kids in- and she said that her kids were dealing with such adult situations at home that it frequently bled over into behavioral issues at school. Everything combined we knew this school wouldn't work for us.

So we're moving to a different district, with *the best* test scores, an ib program, sports, arts, ap classes and still a large portion of esl kids and free/reduced lunch families.

Hopefully this will be the best fit for my kids.


Sent from my ADR6410LVW using proboards

[flopsy]

One of the small difference between private and public schools is the strong belief in discipline. Not just academic discipline in private schools but general discipline. Both private school's and the parents of students in private schools know it is up to the parents to keep their child(ren) in line when they misbehave. At least that is my experience from attending both public and private and doing community service at both.

[zibazinski]

DS told me about the girls in his middle school having oral and other sex. I knew these girls and their moms. I always felt horrible that I knew things their moms didnt. DS told me the moms knew but chose not to acknowledge it. By the time DD was there, oral sex was all the rage. Ugh. 

[milee]

Jan 26, 2014 9:53:09 GMT -5 zibazinski said:

DS told me about the girls in his middle school having oral and other sex. I knew these girls and their moms. I always felt horrible that I knew things their moms didnt. DS told me the moms knew but chose not to acknowledge it. By the time DD was there, oral sex was all the rage. Ugh. 

Thanks, Bill Clinton for spreading the news that oral sex isn't real sex.

Totally and completely off topic, but...

I only have boys, but I think it's wrong that society only focuses on the girls' behavior in these situations.  (And Zib, I'm not saying you're doing this.  You were just telling a story that your DD told you, so I have no basis on which to know if you view this as just a girls' issue or not; it was just your story that prompted me to think about how society reacts to this stuff.)  So many people will comment on how disgusting the behavior of these girls is, but nobody ever talks about the boys.  And not to get too graphic, but at the middle school level from what I've heard, when the kids are engaging in oral sex it's not the girls on the receiving end.  Why don't we view the boys' behavior as a problem here?  It takes two and it's ridiculous that for some reason it's shameful for one of the people involved yet the other person involved in the same act gets a high five from his dad and society...

But that's true at either public or private schools, so not part of the thread.

[zibazinski]

I honestly don't know. I guess it's always the girls who take the blame. DS considered them "bad" but a 12 year olds morality is interesting, to say the least. He was very pro-life at that age, now at 30, he's more realistic. 

[giramomma]

Jan 26, 2014 9:53:09 GMT -5 zibazinski said:

DS told me about the girls in his middle school having oral and other sex. I knew these girls and their moms. I always felt horrible that I knew things their moms didnt. DS told me the moms knew but chose not to acknowledge it. By the time DD was there, oral sex was all the rage. Ugh. 

It's all the rage here, too.

I have to give DS the birds and bees talk soon. I'm procrastinating, and we only have a year and a half before middle school.  I'm not looking forward to it.

I was holding my breath, as he's studying the 10 commandments right now. I asked him what adultery was. He didn't know, which made me a little relieved. Apparently, the teacher told the kids it meant that they need to respect their bodies and themselves.

One of the reasons I really like our school is that the girls look like girls, even in 7th and 8th grade. For me, it was very important for my son to see girls dressed appropriately....

[Deleted]

I still haven't talked to DS and he starts 7th next year.  I mean he knows about sex and reproduction and all that, but I haven't discussed the morality/responsibility stuff with him yet. He's still at the girls are yucky stage, prefers Minecraft and is the nerdy kid in the class, so I'm not real worried about him yet.