The 800 Pound Gorilla In Cleveland

[AgeOfEnlightenmentSCP]

I haven't heard a single media outlet, commentator, pundit, et al ask the question:  Is the Castro family here legally?  Born and raised? Legal immigrants? What is their history, and what's their status?

[swamp]

If his name was Smith and he needed SPF Irish for the rib fest with the neighbors, would you ask that? 

[AgeOfEnlightenmentSCP]

I searched and found one report on a site we'll call "latino rebels" (roughly translated) that states the Castro family are legal immigrants from Puerto Rico.

The did, however, change the flag from PR to the US within hours...

moonbattery.com/?p=30063

[AgeOfEnlightenmentSCP]

May 9, 2013 9:20:00 GMT -5 swamp said:

If his name was Smith and he needed SPF Irish for the rib fest with the neighbors, would you ask that? 

Really Swamp?  You want to play stupid with me?  I don't do the hyper-sensitivity game on race and ethnic origin.  I don't play games, and I don't pretend problems don't exist, or that pointing them out is "racist".  I would ask that because to the best of my knowledge we don't share a porous border with Ireland, and there aren't 12 to 15 million ILLEGAL ALIENS from IRELAND here.  

[AgeOfEnlightenmentSCP]

The Castro family was among the first Puerto Rican immigrants to settle in Cleveland after World War II. The brothers grew up in a family of nine children, and their father owned a car lot in the West 25th Street neighborhood, Adrian Maldonado, who owns a construction consulting company in the area, told The Plain Dealer.

news.yahoo.com/three-brothers-arrested-whats-known-far-alleged-cleveland-155200083.html

[swamp]

May 9, 2013 9:23:00 GMT -5 AgeOfEnlightenmentSCP said:

May 9, 2013 9:20:00 GMT -5 swamp said:

If his name was Smith and he needed SPF Irish for the rib fest with the neighbors, would you ask that? 

Really Swamp?  You want to play stupid with me?  I don't do the hyper-sensitivity game on race and ethnic origin.  I don't play games, and I don't pretend problems don't exist, or that pointing them out is "racist".  I would ask that because to the best of my knowledge we don't share a porous border with Ireland, and there aren't 12 to 15 million ILLEGAL ALIENS from IRELAND here.  

I didn't think asking a question was playing games. 
The guy has been here for years, has adult children who were born here, and has worked here in a place that requires a back ground check (bus driver, and that's a whole nuther kettle of fish).  The last thing on my mind was whether he is here legally.

If he was here for a few years, didn't speak English, and didn't have a job that required a background check, I may have wondered. 

[Waffle]

May 9, 2013 9:16:02 GMT -5 AgeOfEnlightenmentSCP said:

I haven't heard a single media outlet, commentator, pundit, et al ask the question:  Is the Castro family here legally?  Born and raised? Legal immigrants? What is their history, and what's their status?

I had read in several outlets that the Castros are Puerto Rican.  Given that Puerto Rico is a U.S. posession and citizens of Puerto Rico are U.S. citizens, maybe the pundits didn't feel the need to ask such questions.  As for the outlets that are referring to them as immigrants, I really don't understand that.  They moved from one part of the U.S. to another part - doesn't sound like immigrant to me.

[EVT1]

Maybe because the media doesn't see the name Castro associated with a crime and assume there is an issue.  I am sure Fox news is all over it though.  Maybe your bias is the 800 pound gorilla in room.

[AgeOfEnlightenmentSCP]

It's "Not Afraid To Say It Thursday" I guess, so I'll state the obvious: The neighborhood is choc full of immigrants, it's obviously low income- and in fact, that's probably why the police didn't bother coming out. No rich white folks, to protect, so fuck it. They are different cases, but we shut down a whole city in MA to find one guy-- and we went house to house there. But three girls go missing and for ten years, they never re-canvass the neighborhood where they went missing, or check in on the convicted felons with a history of drug, alcohol, and domestic abuse? Anyway, I digress...The fact is that this is a neighborhood where you would find illegal immigrants, so why not ask the question? Is it not OK to wonder what's up with a guy with a Hispanic name in a low income, high concentration of Hispanics area what's up with his status?

[swamp]

Is it not OK to wonder what's up with a guy with a Hispanic name in a low income, high concentration of Hispanics area what's up with his status? 

Sure, wonder all you want. 

[swamp]

It's "Not Afraid To Say It Thursday

Which follows Truthiness Tuesday, Whacky Wednesday, and is followed by Freak Show Friday?

[Deleted]

So, you wondered about the guy's legal status, and within 4 minutes of googling you learned he was Puerto Rican.
Why did you need a thread for this?

"The bad guy is Hispanic. I wonder if he is here legally. Yes, yes he is."

Are you really still wondering why the pundits aren't discussing our porous borders within the U.S.?

[Deleted]

The neighborhood is choc full of immigrants, it's obviously low income- and in fact, that's probably why the police didn't bother coming out. No rich white folks, to protect, so fuck it. They are different cases, but we shut down a whole city in MA to find one guy-- and we went house to house there. But three girls go missing and for ten years, they never re-canvass the neighborhood where they went missing, or check in on the convicted felons with a history of drug, alcohol, and domestic abuse? Anyway, I digress...

Actually that is the most interesting part of what you've had to say.

[bean29]

Yes Paul your line of thinking is racist and offensive.  Not every hispanic that is here is illegal, and what exactly are you thinking?  That we shouldn't proscecute and punish this criminal if he was here illegally? 

Authorities have a habit of ignoring and glossing over domestic violence.  We had a mass shooting at AZANA SPA a high end spa in a more exclusive community in the Milwaukee area.  The shooting was labeled domestic violence and if the Police had followed their own domestic violence policy the shooter would have been in jail the day he murdered his estranged wife and her co-workers.  en.wikipedia.org/wiki/2012_Azana_Spa_shootings  and what is really outrageous is when the police don't do their job they make the taxpayers pay for an expert opinion for an "expert" who never finds against the police:  
www.todaystmj4.com/news/local/206474701.html

Just this week in the news we had the top Military Guy assigned to prevention of sexual assalut accused of sexual assault.  As long as we refuse to take domestic violence seriously as a society, we will continue to see the violence escolate. 

www.foxnews.com/politics/2013/05/06/air-force-staffer-who-led-sexual-assault-prevention-unit-charged-with-groping/

I did wonder if the police had taken his ex-wifes domestic abuse accusations more seriously if this might have somehow been prevented.

[Deleted]

May 9, 2013 9:24:34 GMT -5 AgeOfEnlightenmentSCP said:

The Castro family was among the first Puerto Rican immigrants to settle in Cleveland after World War II. The brothers grew up in a family of nine children, and their father owned a car lot in the West 25th Street neighborhood, Adrian Maldonado, who owns a construction consulting company in the area, told The Plain Dealer.

news.yahoo.com/three-brothers-arrested-whats-known-far-alleged-cleveland-155200083.html

 Puerto Rico has been US territory since 1898... 115 years.

[Tennesseer]

You should be embarrassed Paul. You didn't know Puerto Ricans are U.S. citizens by virtue of birth in Puerto Rico.

[Deleted]

May 9, 2013 9:16:02 GMT -5 AgeOfEnlightenmentSCP said:

I haven't heard a single media outlet, commentator, pundit, et al ask the question:  Is the Castro family here legally?  Born and raised? Legal immigrants? What is their history, and what's their status?

 I think that a majority of Americans are NOT obsessed with demonizing and scapegoating. It's only a small but LOUD subset of militant xenophobes who are compelled to crucify other people.
*Last sentence removed.  Let's not be lobbing that sort of insult, please. - mmhmm, Administrator

[cereb]

Oh dear. Paul, you are not concerned with the actual 800 pound gorilla, which is the big question ; Why only these 3 girls?  Why does a 40 year old man just start kidnapping and offending at such a late age? Where are Cleavland's other missing women and young girls and how many of them can be tied to Castro?

Those would be the important questions. The relevant questions.

[billisonboard]

May 9, 2013 18:09:14 GMT -5 cereb said:

... Why does a 40 year old man just start kidnapping and offending at such a late age? ...

Have you ever read the short story, "The Way That Water Enters Stone" by By John Dufresne? Its central metaphor I would offer as a possible insight into this question. I hope I have time to post an excerpt when I get home if I still have the book it is in on my self. Don't want to paraphrase it unless I can't find the book.

[billisonboard]

Couldn't find is so here it goes:

The Way That Water Enters Stone

Water will fill the smallest crack in a stone and then freeze, expanding the crack slightly. Then it fills the crack again with a little more water, freezes, and expands it a little more. Given time, even the strongest of stones (or human beings) can be broken down in this way.

[Deleted]

May 9, 2013 19:17:21 GMT -5 billisonboard said:

Couldn't find is so here it goes:

The Way That Water Enters Stone

Water will fill the smallest crack in a stone and then freeze, expanding the crack slightly. Then it fills the crack again with a little more water, freezes, and expands it a little more. Given time, even the strongest of stones (or human beings) can be broken down in this way.

 Former iconic New Hampshire landmark "The Old Man of the Mountain", a stone formation in the White Mountains (pictured on the NH state quarter) met its end this way.
 Freeze, thaw, freeze, thaw (etc.), crumble, plummet... kaput.
www.twinmountain.com/oldman.php

[chiver78]

May 9, 2013 9:20:43 GMT -5 AgeOfEnlightenmentSCP said:

I searched and found one report on a site we'll call "latino rebels" (roughly translated) that states the Castro family are legal immigrants from Puerto Rico.

The did, however, change the flag from PR to the US within hours...

moonbattery.com/?p=30063

wow. just wow.

[mmhmm]

This isn't a 800 pound gorilla.  It's more like an ant.  A very small, insignificant, unimportant ant.  It's totally irrelevant to the events that occurred in Cleveland.  It's something that would only be relevant to someone looking for a place to hang their bigotry for the night.  Yes, you can find sites where such creatures hang out.

[Virgil Showlion]

May 9, 2013 9:36:24 GMT -5 AgeOfEnlightenmentSCP said:

It's "Not Afraid To Say It Thursday" I guess, so I'll state the obvious: The neighborhood is choc full of immigrants, it's obviously low income- and in fact, that's probably why the police didn't bother coming out. No rich white folks, to protect, so fuck it. They are different cases, but we shut down a whole city in MA to find one guy-- and we went house to house there. But three girls go missing and for ten years, they never re-canvass the neighborhood where they went missing, or check in on the convicted felons with a history of drug, alcohol, and domestic abuse? Anyway, I digress...The fact is that this is a neighborhood where you would find illegal immigrants, so why not ask the question? Is it not OK to wonder what's up with a guy with a Hispanic name in a low income, high concentration of Hispanics area what's up with his status?

The manhunt in Boston and Cambridge was a millionfold overreaction. Don't hold that up as a baseline "reasonable response" to anything.

I have to agree with everyone else here though in wondering what legal immigration status has to do with anything. The media could just as easily determine whether Mr. Castro owned a gun and then speculate that his captives would've escaped "if not for the gun".

If even a hint of that spin would bring about a well-deserved remote thrown at the TV, why should we be any more sympathetic to an anti-immigrant spin?

[Virgil Showlion]

May 9, 2013 19:17:21 GMT -5 billisonboard said:

Couldn't find is so here it goes:

The Way That Water Enters Stone

Water will fill the smallest crack in a stone and then freeze, expanding the crack slightly. Then it fills the crack again with a little more water, freezes, and expands it a little more. Given time, even the strongest of stones (or human beings) can be broken down in this way.

Hence another word for incrementalism. Or as is more commonly used today, "the slippery slope".

Criminals often commit incrementally greater crimes, but I've read nothing suggesting that people become incrementally more sadistic. It's an all-or-nothing phenomenon.

[EVT1]

May 9, 2013 13:37:00 GMT -5 Tennesseer said:

You should be embarrassed Paul. You didn't know Puerto Ricans are U.S. citizens by virtue of birth in Puerto Rico.

No doubt- not immigrants either.  Basic civics.  (Easy mistake I guess since they speak 'mexican' over there )

[Deleted]

May 9, 2013 20:18:05 GMT -5 mmhmm said:

This isn't a 800 pound gorilla.  It's more like an ant.  A very small, insignificant, unimportant ant.  It's totally irrelevant to the events that occurred in Cleveland.  It's something that would only be relevant to someone looking for a place to hang their bigotry for the night.  Yes, you can find sites where such creatures hang out.

 I see it more as an object presented in an attempt to approximate the size and shape of an 800lb. gorilla... but upon closer inspection one may note that it is, rather, an insubstantial envelope enclosing a large amount of hot gas.
 Like a hot air balloon.

 Unlike a hot air balloon, however, the gasbag just doesn't fly... outside of in the fevered fantasies of xenophobes.

 Puerto Rico wasn't added to the USA all that recently... for the last 115 years it has been a US Territory; to my knowledge, there are no Puerto Ricans still alive that had been born there before the island was a part of the USA. Everyone that has been born there for the last century and more have been natural born citizens of the United States of America.
That's five (and in some instances six and seven!) generations of "naturalization".
 Just for context, the USA acquired/"annexed" the territory of Hawai'i in 1898, as well. And, further, granted it Statehood, in 1959. 
 Puerto Ricans are every bit as much US citizens as Hawai'ians are... or Alaskans are, for that matter.
 

[mmhmm]

I don't play games

This is SO not true!

[Peace Of Mind]

May 9, 2013 9:20:43 GMT -5 AgeOfEnlightenmentSCP said:

I searched and found one report on a site we'll call "latino rebels" (roughly translated) that states the Castro family are legal immigrants from Puerto Rico.

The did, however, change the flag from PR to the US within hours...

moonbattery.com/?p=30063

You crack me up! 

[AgeOfEnlightenmentSCP]

May 9, 2013 20:35:33 GMT -5 Virgil Showlion said:

May 9, 2013 9:36:24 GMT -5 AgeOfEnlightenmentSCP said:

It's "Not Afraid To Say It Thursday" I guess, so I'll state the obvious: The neighborhood is choc full of immigrants, it's obviously low income- and in fact, that's probably why the police didn't bother coming out. No rich white folks, to protect, so fuck it. They are different cases, but we shut down a whole city in MA to find one guy-- and we went house to house there. But three girls go missing and for ten years, they never re-canvass the neighborhood where they went missing, or check in on the convicted felons with a history of drug, alcohol, and domestic abuse? Anyway, I digress...The fact is that this is a neighborhood where you would find illegal immigrants, so why not ask the question? Is it not OK to wonder what's up with a guy with a Hispanic name in a low income, high concentration of Hispanics area what's up with his status?

The manhunt in Boston and Cambridge was a millionfold overreaction. Don't hold that up as a baseline "reasonable response" to anything.

I have to agree with everyone else here though in wondering what legal immigration status has to do with anything. The media could just as easily determine whether Mr. Castro owned a gun and then speculate that his captives would've escaped "if not for the gun".

If even a hint of that spin would bring about a well-deserved remote thrown at the TV, why should we be any more sympathetic to an anti-immigrant spin?

Illegal aliens account for between 17% and 29% of the prison population in the United States depending on the state- California, not surprisingly, spends $1 billion (with a "B") housing illegal alien criminals in prisons.  It is not unreasonable to ask, when you hear about a high-profile story involving crime(s) committed by a person with a Hispanic last name, "Hey, I wonder if this animal is even here legally?".  I think given the numbers- of course, I'm actually familiar with the numbers- it'd be foolish for a nation being put through what we were just put through by foreign invaders, fraudulent citizens, traitors, and/or illegal combatants- whatever you want to call them in Boston NOT to ask the question.  

If you want to be an ostrich and say legal immigration status isn't something we're having problems with, and need to get a handle on- so when you hear about a crime committed by someone named after an islamic conqueror from the crusades, or someone with a Hispanic-sounding name to be curious is natural for the informed, thinking person.