Bonny
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Post by Bonny on Jul 12, 2016 11:22:39 GMT -5
So sorry Bonny. Certainly a maddening situation. Reminds me of a buyer we had to deal with for 6 months during the real estate collapse. He was a complete jackass. Making oral offers, and refusing to follow up on them, every excuse in the book why the contract was never completed, etc, etc, etc. Finally after 6 months he made a written offer of $1Mil cash with a ton of inspection contingencies. We were so sick of him at that point that we drafted a rejection of his offer with a clause telling him flat out that our home was not for sale to him at any price and to take a hike. Of course everything about this sale was crazy, we lingered on the market for many months due to the economy. I finally called the agent and told her to RAISE the price by $50,000 and the house sold within less than a month. EDIT: We raised the price because I could see we were getting too many bottom feeder's looking to take advantage of the real estate collapse. (we were NOT desperate to sell at all) I (rightly) figured if we raised the price we would get into a higher level of buyer and away from the bottom feeders and people that needed to finance rather than paying all cash. Very interesting story about the bottom feeder. I suspect there's some of that going on here.
Our attorney who is very long term friend is really pushing us to go to arbitration because once we get our agreement the buyer cannot come back to us and sue us for anything afterwards. He says we can force it even if the guy withdraws his demands and closes escrow. We can claim it because he impuned my character by alleging I was in cahoots with our pest inspector. The idiot even wrote in his repair/addendum that we failed to disclose the existing dry rot that he found during his illegal pest inspection.
This is clearly about trying to squeeze more money out of us. His addendum which is so blurry that I can't read the exact number is making a demand for about $7k.
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TheOtherMe
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Post by TheOtherMe on Jul 12, 2016 20:46:33 GMT -5
I had never had to put more than $1,000 down as earnest money until this house. The counter offer was only to increase earnest money to $2,000 as I offered asking price. Could not figure that out and my agent said she didn't get it either. I think a lot of this depends on the market and the realtor. It used to be in my neck of the woods you'd put down $500 or $1000 as earnest money when you submitted an offer. Now it's at least 1% of the purchase price, and in a bidding war it can be 2-3% of the purchase price. I'm sure when it's a buyers market again that the norm will go back to $1000 or so in earnest monies. This was 7 years ago. Things were slow to sell. It was when the $8K tax credit was in effect to stimulate home buying. Mine was the only offer and it was not a hot market. It's not a hot market here now either. Around here 1% of the type of house I have is not common. $2K earnest money was MORE than 1%. That was one of the reasons I was ticked off. Builder had sold half of the townhouse the previous December. When I looked at this house, the outside was finished, but not the inside. I got to pick colors, etc. No other offers in play. While my realtor was a dunce, my loan officer was not. He said it was not the norm for this area. Without the loan officer and the seller's realtor, this loan would never have closed.
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emma1420
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Post by emma1420 on Jul 13, 2016 8:50:08 GMT -5
I think a lot of this depends on the market and the realtor. It used to be in my neck of the woods you'd put down $500 or $1000 as earnest money when you submitted an offer. Now it's at least 1% of the purchase price, and in a bidding war it can be 2-3% of the purchase price. I'm sure when it's a buyers market again that the norm will go back to $1000 or so in earnest monies. This was 7 years ago. Things were slow to sell. It was when the $8K tax credit was in effect to stimulate home buying. Mine was the only offer and it was not a hot market. It's not a hot market here now either. Around here 1% of the type of house I have is not common. $2K earnest money was MORE than 1%. That was one of the reasons I was ticked off. Builder had sold half of the townhouse the previous December. When I looked at this house, the outside was finished, but not the inside. I got to pick colors, etc. No other offers in play. While my realtor was a dunce, my loan officer was not. He said it was not the norm for this area. Without the loan officer and the seller's realtor, this loan would never have closed. Interesting. I haven't really been impressed with that many realtors that I have met. The realtor who was serving as the listing agent for the house I bought ended up calling me the day I was moving because she needed me to bring over paperwork to the title company for her sellers so that they could close on their new home. She also didn't bother to delist my house for over 2 weeks after we all closed. Sadly, I run into that kind of ineptness more often than not with that particular profession, so it doesn't surprise me at all that your realtor wasn't on the ball.
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Bonny
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Post by Bonny on Jul 13, 2016 9:48:20 GMT -5
I feel really lucky to have a very good one.
Great communication. Excellent paperwork. And I'm soooooooo glad I'm NOT a licensee in this transaction!
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Sharon
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Post by Sharon on Jul 13, 2016 14:31:28 GMT -5
Bonny was your husband able to determine just how much damage they did with the unauthorized pest inspection? I am also curious if this does go to arbitration is the person guiding the arbitration an expert in real estate?
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TheOtherMe
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Post by TheOtherMe on Jul 13, 2016 18:29:06 GMT -5
This was 7 years ago. Things were slow to sell. It was when the $8K tax credit was in effect to stimulate home buying. Mine was the only offer and it was not a hot market. It's not a hot market here now either. Around here 1% of the type of house I have is not common. $2K earnest money was MORE than 1%. That was one of the reasons I was ticked off. Builder had sold half of the townhouse the previous December. When I looked at this house, the outside was finished, but not the inside. I got to pick colors, etc. No other offers in play. While my realtor was a dunce, my loan officer was not. He said it was not the norm for this area. Without the loan officer and the seller's realtor, this loan would never have closed. Interesting. I haven't really been impressed with that many realtors that I have met. The realtor who was serving as the listing agent for the house I bought ended up calling me the day I was moving because she needed me to bring over paperwork to the title company for her sellers so that they could close on their new home. She also didn't bother to delist my house for over 2 weeks after we all closed. Sadly, I run into that kind of ineptness more often than not with that particular profession, so it doesn't surprise me at all that your realtor wasn't on the ball. I had been very lucky in all of my previous real estate dealings to only have one incompetent realtor. At closing, I thanked my loan officer and the other realtor's office staff for making the sale happen. If I had depended on my agent, I'd still be waiting. Since it was new and I was out of state, she was supposed to be emailing pictures once a week when she checked on how things were going. I really think she only came to the house once because she sent the same pictures 3 weeks in a row. Told the loan officer that and he came to property and emailed me pictures. Did she really think I wouldn't realize the photos showed no progress for three weeks? DS was driving by but couldn't get in. She couldn't tell what was happening from driving by. That is why I vented at loan officer and he said he would contact seller's agent and make it happen. In my other inept realtor episode, she didn't make sure the loan was released. Two years later, she called my parents because the new owner was selling and my loan and that owner's loan both showed up. She told my mom if she didn't get it off her license was in danger. Should have been since she didn't follow through at the time of the sale. All she wanted was her commission as was the case with realtor on this house. She was on her phone during the entire closing and I wanted to scream.
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Bonny
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Post by Bonny on Jul 14, 2016 9:19:31 GMT -5
And another chapter in Bonny's real estate drama...
We came very close to closing yesterday. During the conference call between my real estate agent, her manager, DH and me, we all agreed that signing the amendment that the manager prepared whereby the brokers were kicking in $2,200 in commissions (together) wasn't flying with us because the release as written wasn't going to cover us in the event the buyer came after us after close of escrow over some other made-up "failure to disclose" problem comes up. In other words, kicking in commission simply rewards his bad behavior and will encourage him to come back again. I suggested to the manager that he talk to the buyer's broker and advise him that closing the escrow would go a long way in keeping me from filing a complaint with the BRE (Bureau of Real Estate).
My agent's manager tried multiple times to contact buyer's broker. And unbeknownst to me, buyer deposited the rest of his down payment in escrow. Docs were drawn and sent for me to sign at 10:55am. I was away from my office and computer. At about 11:05 the owner of the pest control company left a message on my home phone advising that he was revoking the pest control clearance due to the agent's damage and discovery of more old damage. This meant that escrow couldn't close based on the terms of the contract.
I found out all of this upon my return to the house at 1:30pm. Even though I had advised both my agent and DH I was headed to Costco. Another round of negotiations whereby I was on two separate conference calls at the same time;(DH and our atty on one call and my agent and her manager on another. Also calls to pest control company owner. In the end, the additional termite work will be performed by the Pest Control company on Monday and he will re-issue clearance also on Monday so that escrow can close Tuesday. My agent and I are not convinced that buyer won't pull some other trick. DH wants to come home partly because I'm headed out of town on Sunday and won't be accessible except by my Satellite locater (if I can figure out how to use it. ) until Friday afternoon.
I admit that I went into my local wine shop for a bottle of liquid therapy.
To answer Sharon's question; not just DH but Pest Control owner says buyer did significant damage by banging on the beam et cetera. He won't name the buyer specifically, just that significant damage was done after Pest Control Inspector did his inspection. Yeah, he's been talking to his lawyer too. Pest control inspector won't accept full responsibility for repair cost. He is charging $400 which my agent/manager is paying for.
DH called later in the evening and had to add his zinger "Life would be so much easier if we didn't own all this real estate". Boo!
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justme
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Post by justme on Jul 14, 2016 9:27:54 GMT -5
Psh tell him life would be so much easier if you weren't trying to sell this real estate.
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TheOtherMe
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Post by TheOtherMe on Jul 14, 2016 21:38:23 GMT -5
What a saga, Bonny. Hope this place gets closed and off your hands.
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TheHaitian
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Post by TheHaitian on Jul 14, 2016 21:45:32 GMT -5
Wow Bonny so sorry! That guy is really an ass...
Our inspection was Monday and it went smoothly! Buyers did not come back with anything they wanted us to fix or give credits for... House is only 2 years old.
Moving on to closing on 08/17 as planned....
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Bonny
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Post by Bonny on Jul 14, 2016 21:50:04 GMT -5
What a saga, Bonny. Hope this place gets closed and off your hands. You know it's a great house and I'm sorry it's being bought by such an a$$hat. Ironically, yesterday I was contacted by my favorite former tenant who lived there for three years. They have friends who wanted to rent the house! If I could figure out how to get out of this contract I would have.
ETA: DH is experimenting with buying a camera so that he could record anyone who comes into the house if he leaves early. I think he may be staying through Monday if COE is Tuesday. I've already got the cat sitter lined up.
And lol, he's out for the evening with our friends (our attorney was a high school classmate of mine and DH's first college roommate), and he has booby trapped the front door against unauthorized access.
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Works4me
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Post by Works4me on Jul 14, 2016 21:54:36 GMT -5
... ... ... DH called later in the evening and had to add his zinger "Life would be so much easier if we didn't own all this real estate". Boo! I can't stop laughing - He is such a lightweight! After everything you have done and been through over the years and he thinks life would be easier without the RE??!!! He's lucky he's several hundred miles away from you ... because no jury would convict ... KWIM. I recommend a lot if wine and will be joining you - ROFLMWBO!
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Bonny
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Post by Bonny on Jul 14, 2016 21:57:32 GMT -5
... ... ... DH called later in the evening and had to add his zinger "Life would be so much easier if we didn't own all this real estate". Boo! I can't stop laughing - He is such a lightweight! After everything you have done and been through over the years and he thinks life would be easier without the RE??!!! He's lucky he's several hundred miles away from you ... because no jury would convict ... KWIM. I recommend a lot if wine and will be joining you - ROFLMWBO! Oh he adds value; there's just a lot whining (vs wining ) that goes along with it!
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TheOtherMe
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Post by TheOtherMe on Jul 14, 2016 22:12:44 GMT -5
What a saga, Bonny. Hope this place gets closed and off your hands. You know it's a great house and I'm sorry it's being bought by such an a$$hat. Ironically, yesterday I was contacted by my favorite former tenant who lived there for three years. They have friends who wanted to rent the house! If I could figure out how to get out of this contract I would have.
ETA: DH is experimenting with buying a camera so that he could record anyone who comes into the house if he leaves early. I think he may be staying through Monday if COE is Tuesday. I've already got the cat sitter lined up.
And lol, he's out for the evening with our friends (our attorney was a high school classmate of mine and DH's first college roommate), and he has booby trapped the front door against unauthorized access.
Love the booby trap!
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Peace Of Mind
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Post by Peace Of Mind on Jul 14, 2016 22:13:20 GMT -5
Wow - Selling real estate "as is" in CA is sure different than here! I'm blown away with all that you are having to deal with with your listing showing as is. I hope you hate the neighbors where this house is located because if you had friends there you may lose them after this asshat moves in. Hang in there, Bonny. You always win. You just have to work your ass off every time.
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TheHaitian
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Post by TheHaitian on Jul 14, 2016 22:28:05 GMT -5
Hopefully this is not a sign of problem to come. For the past week my lawyer has been asking my agent to get the name of the buyers agent lawyer for them so they can cc them the Purchase and Sales Agreement and their agent has been dodging it for a week now.
Just now my agent finally emailed my lawyer and cc'd us :
"Hi X,
I just heard back from the buyers agent and she let me know that the buyers do not have an attorney and want to review a draft P&S themselves. Can you email me a copy of the draft?"
Ok! That is not a bad sign yet right?
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Bonny
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Post by Bonny on Jul 14, 2016 23:39:29 GMT -5
Wow - Selling real estate "as is" in CA is sure different than here! I'm blown away with all that you are having to deal with with your listing showing as is. I hope you hate the neighbors where this house is located because if you had friends there you may lose them after this asshat moves in. Hang in there, Bonny. You always win. You just have to work your ass off every time. Actually we really like one. They are the ones who helped rebuild my fence blew down. Another one just sold her parents' house. She's about my age and a real hoot.
The backyard neighbor should give this one a run for his money. I suspect that both are bi-polar. Not kidding; one time you meet them and they are absolutely charming and the next time you see them you think you've met another person. Should be interesting....
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seriousthistime
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Post by seriousthistime on Jul 15, 2016 6:30:26 GMT -5
I have one realtor coming this weekend for a market analysis. The other realtor was in the house recently and will do a market analysis from that visit; no need to see the house again.
And my house is a mess as I have been collecting boxes, pulling stuff out of closets to decide what to keep/donate/trash, etc. It's been way too messy to contact the long-shot potential buyers in case they ask to come over right away to see it.
Hopefully by Sunday night, things will be more orderly. Carpets to be cleaned on Monday.
It's time to prioritize my list of things to do.
A coworker told me that her realtor told her the market is hot right now. Wow, how unusual it would be for me to actually sell a house in a hot market! I'm thinking once I have an idea on price, and after I contact the potential buyers, I may put a sign in the front yard for a week and see what happens. It's not a busy street but there are a lot of walkers in the neighborhood.
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Bonny
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Post by Bonny on Jul 16, 2016 9:38:10 GMT -5
And another chapter in "As Bonny's Real Estate Sale Turns";
Buyer showed up unannounced at the house. DH called out to him and asked if he was "Mister X". Buyer said yes. DH asked him why he was at the house. Buyer said to meet his Termite guy. DH said "And you haven't called our agent to make an appt? Buyer says "I don't have to" Claimed he didn't know he had to make an appt with our agent. DH said "You are a licensee, you know the rules. Please leave my property".
Buyer was a little pissy but left.
He subsequently wrote a syrupy sweet e-mail to our agent but how he was in the area and just dropped by to see if anyone was working on his (emphasis added!) house but was confronted by an angry man who claimed to be the owner. And he was sorry if he caused any problems.
Buyers then signed the last amendment accepting revised Termite Report and repairs by our termite company. They actually won't be completed and clearance issued until noon on Monday.
I'm so glad DH was there. What would have been better is if DH had been a little more patient and let the buyer use the key he illegally made and then confronted him red-handed.
And FWIW, I called the local police department to find out what we should do if he shows up again. I really want a third party there as a witness in case the buyer goes off again. And I don't trust DH to keep a cool head. They said if the guy doesn't leave then DH should call for assistance and they will dispatch an officer to help calm things down.
Agent's manager thinks buyer will stop "visiting" now that he knows DH is there. Hopefully this will be the end of it. I'm headed to a remote part of the Sierras starting tomorrow to packpack in area which likely has no cell or internet coverage. I won't know what happens until Friday when my girlfriend and I hike out. I signed a power of attorney for DH just in case something else comes up.
Welcome to my world of unreal estate!
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Bonny
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Post by Bonny on Jul 16, 2016 9:47:23 GMT -5
Hopefully this is not a sign of problem to come. For the past week my lawyer has been asking my agent to get the name of the buyers agent lawyer for them so they can cc them the Purchase and Sales Agreement and their agent has been dodging it for a week now. Just now my agent finally emailed my lawyer and cc'd us : "Hi X, I just heard back from the buyers agent and she let me know that the buyers do not have an attorney and want to review a draft P&S themselves. Can you email me a copy of the draft?" Ok! That is not a bad sign yet right? Hi Carl,
Sorry I haven't commented on your post. I've been a little busy with my own real estate drama.
It may or may not be a problem. Do you know where your buyers are coming from? Here on the West Coast and other parts of the country we do not regularly use attorneys unless a transaction is complicated or there are problems (like ours ). Typically we use an escrow service which is a neutral 3rd party that handles the paperwork ensures all the contract items have been signed off on, hold the deposit, calls for the loan to fund, ensures the Grant Deed is recorded and disburses the funds.
Your buyers might not know the East Coast protocol.
On the other hand, they may be first time buyers who think they don't need to spend the money for an attorney. This is not a good situation for you because if they don't avail themselves of their own representation they could come back with a claim that they were taken advantage of by someone who has representation. Your agent or attorney should send something to their agent advising the buyers that you are represented by Counsel and urge them to do so as well.
Good luck with your transaction!
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Works4me
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Post by Works4me on Jul 16, 2016 10:36:43 GMT -5
And another chapter in "As Bonny's Real Estate Sale Turns";
Buyer showed up unannounced at the house. DH called out to him and asked if he was "Mister X". Buyer said yes. DH asked him why he was at the house. Buyer said to meet his Termite guy. DH said "And you haven't called our agent to make an appt? Buyer says "I don't have to" Claimed he didn't know he had to make an appt with our agent. DH said "You are a licensee, you know the rules. Please leave my property".
Buyer was a little pissy but left.
He subsequently wrote a syrupy sweet e-mail to our agent but how he was in the area and just dropped by to see if anyone was working on his (emphasis added!) house but was confronted by an angry man who claimed to be the owner. And he was sorry if he caused any problems.
Buyers then signed the last amendment accepting revised Termite Report and repairs by our termite company. They actually won't be completed and clearance issued until noon on Monday.
I'm so glad DH was there. What would have been better is if DH had been a little more patient and let the buyer use the key he illegally made and then confronted him red-handed.
And FWIW, I called the local police department to find out what we should do if he shows up again. I really want a third party there as a witness in case the buyer goes off again. And I don't trust DH to keep a cool head. They said if the guy doesn't leave then DH should call for assistance and they will dispatch an officer to help calm things down.
Agent's manager thinks buyer will stop "visiting" now that he knows DH is there. Hopefully this will be the end of it. I'm headed to a remote part of the Sierras starting tomorrow to packpack in area which likely has no cell or internet coverage. I won't know what happens until Friday when my girlfriend and I hike out. I signed a power of attorney for DH just in case something else comes up.
Welcome to my world of unreal estate!
The buyer, who is a licensed REA made himself an unauthorized key? That guy just keeps digging his hole deeper. Good for you for going incommunicado and I hope you enjoy your trip, but bad for us - how will we survive without our regular updates? &
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Bonny
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Post by Bonny on Jul 16, 2016 11:09:07 GMT -5
Yep, I think I wrote in an earlier post that DH found evidence that someone has been entering the house after the lockbox was removed.
Back door was unlocked when DH arrived. Our agent had locked everything up after the buyer walk-through last Saturday.
Handprints all around the electrical box and the door knob removed.
Probe marks on an interior beam.
We think he made the key after he got scolded by our agent for not making an appointment with our agent for a second roof inspection. So he just said "F" that, made a key and has been letting a parade of people into the house with our agent's or our knowledge and consent.
Unfortunately all of our "evidence" is circumstantial. We can't prove that he has a key. That's why I was disappointed that DH immediately confronted him while the buyer was still outside instead of lying in wait and waiting for him to use his key to open the front door.
DH still has the front door booby trapped in case the buyer tries to enter again while DH is out. But we don't think he'll try that. We do think the buyer might try to direct the workman on Monday on how to do the termite repair job.
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Wisconsin Beth
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Post by Wisconsin Beth on Jul 16, 2016 11:25:45 GMT -5
The vacant lot next to our vacant lot, up here in Rhinelander, is up for sale. Realty website lists it as 1.69 acres for $39,900. I am about 99% sure we're going to put an offer in. I've wanted both sites pretty much since we walked the land in 2009. Our lot assesses for $50K so we think this one would be similar. Possibly more because we've got a tangle of trees and a cliff of sorts that limits usable land.
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taz157
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Post by taz157 on Jul 16, 2016 12:22:16 GMT -5
The vacant lot next to our vacant lot, up here in Rhinelander, is up for sale. Realty website lists it as 1.69 acres for $39,900. I am about 99% sure we're going to put an offer in. I've wanted both sites pretty much since we walked the land in 2009. Our lot assesses for $50K so we think this one would be similar. Possibly more because we've got a tangle of trees and a cliff of sorts that limits usable land. What the eventual plan with the land? Build? Admire it only? If build, when?
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Wisconsin Beth
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Post by Wisconsin Beth on Jul 16, 2016 13:30:02 GMT -5
Long term is to build. Our deed restrictions are min. build of 1000sf. And we'd have to put in a septic system.
The lots are long and skinny, like 100 feet wide skinny. And the water table is high around here.
Use Google maps to find Hat Rapids dam. We're the last lot at the dam on the eastern side. If you look on the satellite shots, you can see our fire pit. Lol.
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seriousthistime
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Post by seriousthistime on Jul 16, 2016 20:06:53 GMT -5
Just had my first realtor visit. I'm interviewing another realtor, then calling the family whose kids, the neighbors say, would like to move back to the neighborhood. I also talked to my next door neighbor through the fence. She runs so hot and cold on this. First she said I'd have NO trouble selling it quickly. Now she's saying she knows I've done great things to the house but houses haven't really appreciated since I moved here 10 years ago and I'll probably sell for what I paid. Umm, no. The first realtor showed me the comps, and she would be surprised.
I have A LOT to do to the house. I worked all day on getting stuff done. And I'm nowhere near ready! I did manage to list a bunch of stuff on eBay and sold $200 worth of stuff within the first hour. But all the eBay stuff (listed as well as sold) is now out on the dining room table. I have boxes in every room of the house and as I find stuff to donate, it goes into a box.
Carpets to be cleaned on Monday. Plumber comes by for the last bit of work on Wednesday. (A part had to be ordered.) Got the gardener scheduled to start coming by every week to deadhead flowers and weed, lawn is already on autopilot with weekly mowings, Scottslawn is fertilizing regularly, and I'm thinking of springing for professional window washing. I did it a few years ago and IT WAS AMAZING. Also need to call the heating & A/C guy to come and service the furnace and A/C.
Lots to do, and miles to go.
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Works4me
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Post by Works4me on Jul 17, 2016 7:05:17 GMT -5
Seriousthistime - Personally I would just refer them to your agent and let him/her handle it because it is easier with far less risk. Also, anyone buying from you as a FSBO is probably going to expect more of a price break than the commission will cost you. Let someone else deal with educating them as to current property values and the contracts, disclosures, etc. Also, sometimes agents will cut their commission (up to 50%) if you produce the buyer and all they are doing is shuffling papers. YMMV - good luck! &
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seriousthistime
Senior Member
Joined: Dec 22, 2010 20:27:07 GMT -5
Posts: 4,695
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Post by seriousthistime on Jul 17, 2016 7:19:58 GMT -5
Excellent idea, Works4me. I figured I'd just discount the price by the amount of the commission, but why go through all that trouble for something that turns out to be a net wash and more hassle for me.
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Works4me
Senior Member
Someone responded to your personal ad - a German Shepherd named Tara wants to have you for dinner...
Joined: May 5, 2012 12:11:37 GMT -5
Posts: 2,522
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Post by Works4me on Jul 17, 2016 7:36:17 GMT -5
Serious - good plan. I find the stories here entertaining and miss the great stories my BFF had from being in the business but there is no way in hell I would want to work in real estate. It's only the single largest purchase anyone ever makes. It brings out all of the unresolved dysfunction of individuals plus every marital issue a couple has ever had. But the stories are the best and usually nobody dies! &
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Bonny
Junior Associate
Joined: Nov 17, 2013 10:54:37 GMT -5
Posts: 7,437
Location: No Place Like Home!
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Post by Bonny on Jul 17, 2016 9:02:04 GMT -5
Serious - good plan. I find the stories here entertaining and miss the great stories my BFF had from being in the business but there is no way in hell I would want to work in real estate. It's only the single largest purchase anyone ever makes. It brings out all of the unresolved dysfunction of individuals plus every marital issue a couple has ever had. But the stories are the best and usually nobody dies! & lol I told my agent the same thing...but that part about nobody dying...well about 20 years ago I got selected to be on a jury for a murder case whereby the tenant murdered his landlord and continued to collect the other tenants rents...yep it's a weird world out there....
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