henryclay
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Post by henryclay on Feb 10, 2011 20:16:51 GMT -5
This message has been deleted.
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henryclay
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Post by henryclay on Feb 10, 2011 20:21:30 GMT -5
Well, I can't make the things stick, (I'm not a 'puter whiz), so I'll paste part of the article and let the readers find the "goodies" in it, , , ,' cept most of them aren't goodies at all. And some readers will say it's all Bush's fault. ">>>>>>The Consequences Of Debt How has debt based economics served us so far? The credit card debt of the average American household ranges from $8000 to $15,000. Total household debt including mortgage and home equity loans has hit an average of 136% of annual household income: www.creditcards.com/credit-card-news/credit-card-industry-facts-personal-debt-statistics-1276.php blogs.forbes.com/moneybuilder/2010/06/24/one-big-difference-between-chinese-and-american-households-debt/ Approximately 80% of mortgage loans issued to subprime borrowers over the past decade were Adjustable Rate Mortgages (ARM), meaning 80% of mortgages in the U.S. have reset or are ready to reset at much higher interest rates. There were approximately 1.4 million bankruptcy filings in 2009, and 1.5 million in 2010. One in every 45 homes in America received a foreclosure filing in 2010: www.marketwatch.com/story/top-10-cities-where-foreclosure-rates-are-highest-2011-01-27 www.uscourts.gov/Statistics/BankruptcyStatistics.aspx Keep in mind that in 2005, new government regulations were implemented making filing for bankruptcy much more difficult. In 2006, filings collapsed. Now, despite stringent obstacles, filings are up again over 100%.<<<<<<<<" The link where that came from is below. It has a mountain, (fountain), of things to consider that I have not posted here. campaign.r20.constantcontact.com/render?llr=ira8vadab&v=001dTY-NYldfV2naTxXAxtiEp9lwEX0P_RMtrnp4mblkObchKxZlnE1UCjOyBaGkB8oMvgLcA6dv30FNdUvlvZiSqqKBMnMGJEB4R6Ub_0Tg8g%3D
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billisonboard
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Post by billisonboard on Feb 10, 2011 20:35:27 GMT -5
Yes, last Thursday at 2:00 pm Eastern Standard time. Actually, I do believe they have. By the middle to late seventies, the advantages we had gained coming out of the Second World War and colonial economic exploitation had played out. In the eighties we started to accumulate personal and private debt to sustain the lifestyle that we had developed. Individually people are hitting their credit limits and the nation as a whole will soon hit its.
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mmhmm
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It's a great pity the right of free speech isn't based on the obligation to say something sensible.
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Post by mmhmm on Feb 10, 2011 20:39:54 GMT -5
Things aren't as they were, that's for certain, henry. However, much of this lies on the shoulders of the individual. It amazes me how many people will use credit cards, pay the minimums due once a month, and whine because they can't get out of debt! If you can't pay it off when the bill comes in, don't buy it, ya ninny!
I can understand that some are not responsible for the situations they now find themselves facing; however, I really don't think that's the majority. Yeah, the banks and mortgage companies did a major rip-off and need their arses handed to them. Still, too many bought far more house than they could afford. They knew it, but were counting on rising values to bail them out. Bam! The crisis hit and they're sitting right in the middle of the ruins of ... what? Their gamble? Yep. To have done something like this using an ARM was stupid beyond belief, in my opinion!
As for bankruptcy, the only ones who really benefit from that particular boondoggle are the lawyers involved. Everyone else is screwed; although, the person filing bancruptcy is more screwed, as the issuer of the loan got something back through the interest gained.
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billisonboard
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Post by billisonboard on Feb 10, 2011 22:02:13 GMT -5
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billisonboard
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Post by billisonboard on Feb 10, 2011 22:09:42 GMT -5
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safeharbor37
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Post by safeharbor37 on Feb 10, 2011 22:15:04 GMT -5
Although I'm generally optimistic, I'm seeing signs that not only may we not be in a recovery, but there may be even worse days ahead. I see people who can afford not to, pulling back and another business, a strong operation for over 30 years, trimming its staff to bare bones and, of course, adding the unemployment rolls. A lot of people on this board seem to think that employers lay off workers because they're greedy, but the ones I see hang on, particularly to good workers, until they have no choice but to cut expenses or shut down. I had thought that the economy had hit bottom and that the recovery would be slow and incomplete, but, at this point, I'm not sure if there is a real recovery. I think that the "throw money at it" approach of the Bush/Obama Administrations is coming back to bite us. The old saying is; "When the going gets tough, the tough get going." It looks to me that it'll require toughness to survive whole in the foreseeable future and we've got a whole generation of people who've never been asked to deal with real adversity. Although I didn't see it at first, I'm thinking that the last few and the next few years may be looked back on the way those my age and older look back on the Great Depression. [One of those is enough for a generation. That's the problem with living too long.] There are two worrying things; the hard times that may lie ahead and what we'll have left when we're through it. It seems that every "crisis" leaves us with a little less to make us want to deal with the next one. Conditions in Mexico and Egypt, etc. seem to have more effect on us than we do on them. Some days you're the windshield, some days you're the bug. Get ready to find out how the bug feels.
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Post by anonymous888 on Feb 10, 2011 22:20:46 GMT -5
Well as our Emperor ... oops President Obama said, he promised us CHANGE, things going from BAD to WORSE is still CHANGE I have read in our company report that most of the Central Banks around the World have started diversfying their reserves away from the US Dollar in anticipation of a collapse in the US Dollar however it is not expected to happen anytime soon until they have fully diversified out of thier Dollar Reserve into other more stable currencies and some commodities. Estimate time of diversification is anytime between 1 year to 2 years for the majority of Central Banks around the World to move out of US Dollar Bonds, Treasuries, etc. because there seems to be NO BUYERS for US Treasuries. These Central Banks also hope to get Americans and other idiot Central Bankers that are not in the know to believe that the US Dollar will recover hence they will buy 10 Treasuries publicly and announce it loudly and sell 100 Treasuries through the back door. As far as I am concerned if this is true I won't be coming back to the US anymore if the US Dollar collapse, the US Government will become a Dictatorship or a Communist Government.
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billisonboard
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Post by billisonboard on Feb 10, 2011 22:33:49 GMT -5
Well as our Emperor ... oops President Obama ... It started long before January 20, 2009.
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Post by marjar on Feb 10, 2011 23:44:16 GMT -5
Safe- I'm not saying the bailouts won't bite us in the ass, but what do you think the worst would have happened if they hadn't occurred? Serious question.
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safeharbor37
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Post by safeharbor37 on Feb 11, 2011 0:00:05 GMT -5
Could the government have made a worse mess? Of course. What the government did was, in effect, discover it had spent itself into insolvency and decided that the solution was to borrow more money. What better solution is there? The problem is finding a way to continue spending beyond your income without sacrificing anything. It's a real problem I mean, doesn't the government owe us the lifestyle to which we've become accustomed? IMHO, there are fundamental problems which are not being addressed because "the people" are willing to sacrifice only if it's someone else doing the sacrificing. Why is so hard to understand that you can't continue to spend more than you make infinitely?
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billisonboard
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Post by billisonboard on Feb 11, 2011 0:21:05 GMT -5
... Some days you're the windshield, some days you're the bug . Get ready to find out how the bug feels.
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burnsattornincan
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Post by burnsattornincan on Feb 11, 2011 7:42:50 GMT -5
Yeah, the banks and mortgage companies did a major rip-off and need their arses handed to them.
What about Frank, Dodds, Reid, Pelosi and any other complete fool of an idiot who kept pushing the CRA when people had warned of its sustainability, even Bush. No problem with them?
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Post by privateinvestor on Feb 11, 2011 19:43:59 GMT -5
Have the rough times ahead already started?They started in January 2009 when Obama took the oath of office as our president...and it has been downhill since that date which will live in infamy..IMHO......maybe Donald Trump was correct last night at CPAC when he said our country has lost it's way with him in the White House and he cannot be considered on to lead anyone..and Obama has been a disaster as Donald Trump says to Obama "you're fired"...
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billisonboard
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Post by billisonboard on Feb 11, 2011 20:38:17 GMT -5
My sense is that things weren't fine at 11:59 am on January 20th, 2009 and then things were rough at 12:01 pm on January 20th, 2009. When Reagan gave us "Mourning(sic) in America" by piling up debt instead of dealing with the changing world, he turned us on to the path we are now on.
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Post by privateinvestor on Feb 11, 2011 20:51:26 GMT -5
In remarks heavily focused on the economy, foreign policy, and American exceptionalism Friday, former Massachusetts Gov. Mitt Romney squarely challenged the competence and the authenticity of the man he’d like to replace in the White House. The speech to the CPAC conservative conference -- the same group to whom he conceded the presidential primary race three years ago -- was primarily an assault on what he described as President Barack Obama’s fickle and hesitant strategy for solving the nation’s economic problems. Romney received a mostly polite – but also sometimes enthusiastic – response from the thousands of conservative activists in the audience. The biggest sustained applause he received was when he delivered this criticism of the president: “It’s going to take more than new rhetoric to put Americans back to work. It’s going to take a new president.” The former Bain & Company CEO, whose business credentials have served as the linchpin of his case for the presidency, blamed the Obama presidency for the nation’s nine percent unemployment rate. “President Barack Obama has stood watch over the greatest job loss in modern American history. And that, my friends, is one inconvenient truth that will haunt this president throughout history,” he said. firstread.msnbc.msn.com/_news/2011/02/11/6033510-romney-its-going-to-take-a-new-president
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henryclay
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Post by henryclay on Feb 11, 2011 20:54:21 GMT -5
bills, help me out here.
Reagan left office in 1988 and died in 2004. I'm interested in how the dickens can he be resurrected and have any effect on the inauguration spectacle that left the streets of the nations capitol under a pile of garbage in 2009, and be the cause of anything calamitous happening now, or heaven forbid in the future?
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billisonboard
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Post by billisonboard on Feb 11, 2011 21:09:25 GMT -5
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safeharbor37
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Post by safeharbor37 on Feb 11, 2011 23:29:06 GMT -5
Glenn Beck puts it back as far as Theodore Roosevelt [Progressive Movement]. Methinks Glenn is on to something.
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safeharbor37
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Post by safeharbor37 on Feb 13, 2011 17:38:13 GMT -5
Actually, the government of the US has always meddled in the affairs of business. The Articles of Confederation kept the government in its place, but the US Constitution was actually intended to strengthen the government's control over what had been considered "private" or "local" affairs by the framers of the "Articles." Since the signing of the Constitution, government and those in favor of a stronger government have progressively eaten away at the protections provided by, particularly, the "Bill of Rights." Teddy Roosevelt was the first of the "progressive" US Presidents and so gets the credit or blame for what has happened since. The only non-progressive Presidents since were Coolidge, Harding and Reagan [and, remember, Reagan was a New Deal Democrat ~ Progressive, in other words]. So, in effect, whatever is good or bad about the way things are going, still that's the reason for it. My own preference is to hang on to the benefits the government has provided and resist any changes which will eat into them or any more of our individual rights and responsibilities [That is, to me, what conservatism is]. So, I can see the negative aspects of an increasingly powerful and intrusive government while, at the same time, appreciating its benefits.
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billisonboard
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Post by billisonboard on Feb 13, 2011 17:44:31 GMT -5
Coolidge and Harding were both pretty bad presidents safe. Coolidge presided over a do-nothing administration that let thieves go utterly wild, and Harding was even worse, i.e. teapot dome among others. To give credit where credit is due, I disagreed with Reagan's politics, but believe he was an honest man and one blessed with real courage. Iran-Contra.
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Post by privateinvestor on Feb 13, 2011 22:27:21 GMT -5
Have the rough times ahead already started?Yes and they could get rougher easier if we see tax increases, cuts that effect the poor and middle class, and continued unemployment at @10%. You could see open revolt in some cities, or marches on Washington DC that will be similar to what we saw during Vietnam, and calling for Obama to leave and end up with Mubarak or some other despised dictator who let his country slip into anarchy and open revolt... This was the theme at CPAC by some of the conservative speakers. Gingrich, Backman, Romney, Paul, and Trump.....maybe they could be right?? Or just playing to the anger and fear among the conservatives who want Obama gone ASAP..
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jkapp
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Post by jkapp on Feb 14, 2011 11:58:23 GMT -5
>>How has debt based economics served us so far? The credit card debt of the average American household ranges from $8000 to $15,000<< What the heck are people using their credit cards for??? When I spend more than $400/month on my CC I already start cutting back and using it less (unless there is obviously a large charge on it, like a plane ticket). I just don't understand the mindset of "I already can't afford my credit card balance, but I'm going to charge even more." My brother has that same problem and I just cannot grasp what he is thinking (if he's thinking at all).
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pappyjohn99
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The driveway needs a little work.
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Post by pappyjohn99 on Feb 14, 2011 12:04:06 GMT -5
In reply to the OP's question - It depends on if you still have your job. IMHO
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Post by magichat on Feb 14, 2011 12:14:24 GMT -5
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floridayankee
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Post by floridayankee on Feb 14, 2011 14:03:31 GMT -5
He has been elected the man with the broom to pick up the horse-$hit of the last several decades. This recession has been a long time coming. I was under the impression he knew the economy was in the shitter when he ran for office. Too bad all he's done is triple down on Bushenomics and blame others for all the country's woes.
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floridayankee
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Post by floridayankee on Feb 14, 2011 14:35:06 GMT -5
>>How has debt based economics served us so far? The credit card debt of the average American household ranges from $8000 to $15,000<< What the heck are people using their credit cards for??? When I spend more than $400/month on my CC I already start cutting back and using it less (unless there is obviously a large charge on it, like a plane ticket). Everything. Our Jan balance was $4,569.93 from Christmas spending, food, gas....pretty much everything including some new living room furniture we treated ourselves to for the first time since we bought our house. In 2008, we purchased our motorcycle for $13k using the cc. Our balance for Feb was $175.77. Depending on when data is collected, it could look like we have a ton of cc debt when we pay our card off every month. We use the cc to make purchases an get the cash back rewards. Things are rarely as black and white as they seem.
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