Deleted
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Post by Deleted on Mar 15, 2013 17:54:52 GMT -5
I recently had my kids do journals about "dependability." They were to write about one time when they were in a group project where someone let them down. Most kids seem to HATE group projects, particularly good students. They resent doing work others getting credit for, or they resent getting bad grades because other people are slackers. I also remember being proud of a project that I did by myself in the early elementary grades and being stunned at what the other students produced. I virtually had no parents to help me, but I was smart and worked hard. Lots of luck on how that worked out for me. Final story: the highlight of my son's elementary school life was winning the state's science fair project for grades 1-5. He was a third grader. This project was constructed over a single weekend because . . . as always . . . we heard about the project on Friday when the project was due on Monday. We were frantic, and a teacher friend told us to saw off part of tree trunk. He needed to do the research, count the rings, figure out which years were good or bad, etc. The shellac wasn't dry, however, when he won the first round. By the way, feel free to steal the tree ring project. It obviously was a good one.
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Happy prose
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Post by Happy prose on Mar 15, 2013 18:03:50 GMT -5
I always offered my home for the project, but sometimes they took turns. There were some homes I didn't want my daughter at.
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Deleted
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Post by Deleted on Mar 16, 2013 3:00:41 GMT -5
I hate projects and I hate the parents that DO the project FOR their child. I will HELP my kids, but I am not going to do the project for them. I hate when they take their projects in and they see all these projects that were obviously done by the parents. At first it bothered my kids but then they realized that they actually did their project and most of their classmates didn't. The teachers also always thanked us for not doing the project FOR our kids.
This weekend my 7th grader has 2 projects. He has to make a mask for Geography and a pizza (not a real pizza) for language arts. I can't even find half of the supplies at the stores. Grrrrr!
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raeoflyte
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Post by raeoflyte on Mar 16, 2013 5:59:22 GMT -5
All of these threads make me want to home school...
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steph08
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Post by steph08 on Mar 16, 2013 6:01:40 GMT -5
Most kids seem to HATE group projects, particularly good students. They resent doing work others getting credit for, or they resent getting bad grades because other people are slackers. This is exactly why I loathed group projects throughout high school and college. Our high school graduated 90 kids (and we were one of the bigger classes), so it's not as if you can hide being the smart nerd who has to get an A. Others definitely took advantage of that. Damn slackers! I don't have any kids so I can't speak to today's school projects - but if I ever do have any, I am worried about this new math thing that they teach! I always carry the 1!
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econstudent
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Post by econstudent on Mar 16, 2013 10:17:41 GMT -5
All of these threads make me want to home school...
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KaraBoo
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Post by KaraBoo on Mar 16, 2013 18:26:04 GMT -5
DS was in special ed classes from 1st grade through 3rd, started going to the mainstream classes in 3rd (half and half), and completely mainstream in 4th and 5th. DS struggles with abstract ideas but does well with facts. One of his 3rd grade teachers had a project that required the students to come up with an invention, preferrably new, but could be an improvement on an existing product. They had to make a model, name their invention and write up a paper on how they thought it up and how it worked. The paper sent home with the students specifically said, "Parent involvement encouraged and welcomed!". The teacher who assigned it wouldn't give DS a pass on the project even though it was outside his scope of ability at the time to do even half of the project on his own (I didn't want him passing it just because I did all of the work!). Great! Just what my non-abstract thinking child needs - a project that requires imagination! GAH! Between DS and I, we struggled thinking of something, but finally came up with a unique idea. Small wooden board with 4 different colored dots with 4 tiles painted with the same dots (one dot per tile). We labeled the dots: front driver, front passenger, back driver, back passenger. Everything fit in a little canvas bag I had. We named it "The Beast Buddy" (after our Suburban that DH nick-named The Beast because it's a 3/4 ton with a 454 engine). The purpose was so our 4 kids would have to draw a tile to "assign" them a seat in the vehicle (as they were always fighting over who sat where). The teachers later told me that DS struggled through his presentation (basically, just held it up, but didn't talk about it - they couldn't read his hand-written report at all and they had to read my "cheat sheet" that I sent with it), but he was so proud of his project. They also said it was obvious that he did the painting and that we just helped him. They then wanted to know where we got the AWESOME idea and were we going to market it! I still hate that teacher and that class.
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8 Bit WWBG
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Post by 8 Bit WWBG on Mar 16, 2013 18:46:26 GMT -5
I think group projects, though tedious, is one of the best "real world" lessons that a school can offer. Bonus if (usually in college) you actually get to take a course on group dynamics, and do a group project on the dynamics of a group.
In the real world, you are going to have to work with slackers, glory hogs, back stabbers, social butterflies, followers, leaders... Learning how to navigate is extremely valuable.
I have a lot of great group project memories from college. I learned very quickly that sometimes people just wanted to be told what to do; and that if you showed up more prepared than everyone else, many will flock to you, grateful not to have to "think". Thomas Jefferson was a big practitioner of this idea. I used it to get people in one of my marketing classes to do a project I was handling for one of my volunteer groups.
I had another group I worked with where I felt like I did all of the work. Most of them would do what they needed, but I had to redo a lot of it. One girl, who was in charge of a survey, clearly did a 5 minute cut and paste job (as I noticed when several questions repeated).
That particular professor had us dole out our own points. Most people played it safe and split points (out of 100) pretty evenly among the members.
I gave myself 110 points, three people 0 points, and one chick -10 points. I aced the class.
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zibazinski
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Post by zibazinski on Mar 17, 2013 16:14:34 GMT -5
I had a project like that in college ONCE. I did almost everything and we had to assign points. Amazingly, I got the fewest points even though I did all the work. So I made the professor ask the others about the project and when it was apparent they knew nothing, they failed the project. I insisted on being the when he questioned them because I wasn't letting the professor off the hook, either. After that, if I was assigned a group project, I said NO, and referred the professor to the one who assigned it to me the first time. Out loud in class I would basically say I wasn't going to do anyone else's work for them or take a poor grade because I only did my share and the rest dropped the ball. It actually worked! Others started speaking up and that ended a lot of that BS, at east for me.
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zibazinski
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Post by zibazinski on Mar 17, 2013 16:15:09 GMT -5
Group projects or any projects = lazy teacher.
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luckyme
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Post by luckyme on Mar 17, 2013 18:30:58 GMT -5
School projects should be done IN school. We live in a very low income area, lots of social issues, absenteeism, etc. The teachers still assign projects to be done out of school. WTH! My DD ends up doing everything. The other kids can't come here or she can't go there, or I don't want her there. I suggest library, and they can't do that either. The last time two kids came here, one of them stole her MP3 player. Then when it was time to make the presentation in school, the other two kids were absent that day. She absolutely hates school projects and I don't blame her. Sometimes I wonder if teachers ever actually "think" about the things they do.
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zibazinski
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Post by zibazinski on Mar 17, 2013 18:53:49 GMT -5
Good question. But remember, they work for you. If you don't want group projects, you say so. If parents stand together, admins and teachers fail.
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Deleted
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Post by Deleted on Mar 17, 2013 21:17:02 GMT -5
Whoa! Collaborative learning does not equal "lazy teacher." I already told you that many good students hate group projects, but learning how the world works (as another poster said, you get slackers, glory hogs, and everything in between) IS a part of learning. These aren't the last groups that students will ever work with, either in school or in life.
Some people don't work well in groups. Zib illustrates that with her comments. That doesn't make Zib a bad person, but you do have to learn to be a "team player." It's not all about what you do. It is about what the group accomplishes. I have been in many groups where I have had to lead. I have been in many groups where my leadership wasn't needed or wanted because someone else had appointed themself leader. That was fine. I was willing to be the reliable "gopher" who kept the leader on his/her toes who wasn't expecting that much help.
Both experiences were good for me. I am an independent learner, but such absolute independence doesn't really work that well once you graduate from college.
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Sum Dum Gai
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Post by Sum Dum Gai on Mar 17, 2013 23:11:22 GMT -5
My kids will have roughly 80 years to realize the world is full of lazy asshats, do we really need to start introducing that lesson at the age of 10? Can we maintain the illusion that most people are good and decent as long as possible please.
And don't even get me started on college group projects. I'm already paying through the fucking nose for some TA who barely speaks understandable English to teach me a class. Now I get to pay for the privilege of doing work for a bunch of slackers who are only there because mom and dad have money and they want to party. Thanks for that.
I should have walked up and bitch slapped the teacher out of the blue during class. When he asked why I can say I was just trying to make sure he understood how the world works, and what a valuable lesson I just gave him. A week or two later I can send him the bill for $1k and make him buy a new printing of a thirty year old book for $250.[/span]
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Deleted
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Post by Deleted on Mar 18, 2013 0:46:14 GMT -5
The class I am in now has 3 Part group project and it is only an 8 week class. I hate it! My group is fine, but it IS hard to do a group project when I am in Italy, in a totally different time zone. The other members of my group work durning the day and can't email me until they get out of work. When they get out of work, I am in bed.
I agree with lareli, projects should be done in school as much as possible. I know teachers do not have enough time to fit everything in, but kids should not have to come home and work for several hours on homework and projects. If you are going to assign a project, give them ample time to be able to work on it in class. I know it CAN be done because I have taught a 3/4 split and I never sent home a project.
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zibazinski
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Post by zibazinski on Mar 18, 2013 8:18:10 GMT -5
My kids were assigned projects over BREAKS! Excuse me, it's called a BREAK for a reason. I always felt bad because if I hadn't been a teacher but just a parent, I'd have told them to shove those projects up their bums. Plus, getting assigned group projects with ghetto kids is just precious. Way to go. I'm sure in someone's wonderful mind, the kid whose parents don't give a rip will magically come to realize there's a better way of life. Or else this is the way to get a kid credit who wouldn't get any otherwise by making others do their work for them. Just like taxpayers do their parents work for them. You teach a lesson alright. That someone will always do your job for you. Teaches the future taxpayers, too. Get used to carrying freeloaders.
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973beachbum
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Post by 973beachbum on Mar 18, 2013 9:12:11 GMT -5
I dont care how many times someone tries to explain to me that group projects are to help kids understand when they get them in their jobs when they grow up I have worked for thirty plus years and I have never gotten a group review. I have worked on projects that had pieces that different people each had a piece of but we didn't go it as a group and we certianly didn't get judged on our "group" work just what I had done myself. Somehow it has become real even though it really isn't. The only trouble my 4th grader has ever gotten into in school was during a group project. He was in a group with 3 girls he didn't know well. The girls decided that all answers would be voted on. So the group voted and decided that 2+2=5, for whatever the project was type of thing. DS kept saying but 2+2 doesn't equal 5 it equals 4. They kept telling them that he lost the vote so it did equal 5. He finally refused to sign the paper as a member of the group. He said he would rather get a zero than have anyone think he was that dumb. So the girls decided he wasn't allowed to do that and put his name on it for him. He proceeded to rip the project up into little pieces. The worst part of the whole stupid thing is he was right about everthing he said. I am sure from talking to other kids in the class that the girls just did it to annoy him. Other than proving that my son actually has a temper, which I really didn't know before this, what the heck did this whole stupid thing actually teach anyone?!?!
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sheilaincali
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Post by sheilaincali on Mar 18, 2013 9:29:17 GMT -5
DS had so freaking many projects in junior high I was read to scream. His Ancient Civiliations teacher had them do a project on every civilization taht they studied. Greece, Japan, Egypt, etc. These damn things would take nearly all weekend. So far in high school he has only had one group project- They had to do a Romeo and Juliet project. Group or individual. He chose group with his friends and they acted out the fight scene and DH video taped it. Then they got on their laptops and edited it, added music, opening and closing credits, etc. Got 100% and the teacher loved it. But he chose his nerdy friends that all get A's to be in his group so he stacked it in his favor
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Deleted
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Post by Deleted on Mar 18, 2013 9:34:00 GMT -5
Sports are the ultimate group project. Everyone works together and then pass or fail on competition day. School should require all students to play a team sport and then get rid of academic based projects.
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teen persuasion
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Post by teen persuasion on Mar 18, 2013 9:46:33 GMT -5
Sports are the ultimate group project. Everyone works together and then pass or fail on competition day. School should require all students to play a team sport and then get rid of academic based projects. Or the HS musical! The musical season is FINALLY over - hooray! DD3 had a lead, so she's been living at school the past 3 weeks or so; she's gone 7am to 9:30pm every day, closer to midnight on performance nights. Cast, crew, lighting, pit, ... it's well over 100 people. I wish they got credit for it - it's more like a negative, since it takes over their lives so that they are not thinking about classes, homework, tests.
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justme
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Post by justme on Mar 18, 2013 9:59:56 GMT -5
I didn't mind group projects once A) teachers/professors let us pick our own groups and/or B) we assigned points to others in our group. If I was in a decent class and could pick my group, we usually didn't need to assign points since I picked people carried their own weight....or at least did what we told them to do.
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bean29
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Post by bean29 on Mar 20, 2013 21:46:09 GMT -5
Heads up people - that family tree project? It is a favorite teacher assignment. Take said completed project and put it in a file for future reference. DD Came to me about 9 pm last night and said her Ss teacher assigned this project. My DS is 50 this was assigned to her in 3rd grade. I remember Mom discussing details with grandma and my Great Aunt. Mom gave me a copy of report and I know I recently saw it-luckily dd had same proj in grade school and I had that along with a more detailed family tree from my sister or my uncle. Gather pictures and immigration info. HS Soc Studies teacher wanted to know about immigration entry modes and a story about when immigrant relative 1st came to this country. DH is a nautralized citizen so she only had to go to him. But he knows a lot about immigration so he gave info about his grandfather, his father and himself. Dd has a 3rd cousin in this class...his mother is DH's cousin. His pics were different than Dd's so we are going to ask for copies. Dd said it was not her that noticed but a classmate. We gave a pic of a great uncle, her classmate had same person with 3 brothers so possibly DH's grandfather.
Sent from my MB855 using proboards
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