Consequences for not having auto insurance...

[The Captain]

The other thread revived some old (GRRRR) aggravating memories...

In my state you (supposedly) are supposed to provide proof of insurance before you will be issued a DL. Of course we all know how that works, people cancel the insurance or don't pay the second they have the DL.

Having been involved in an accident (minor sideswipe) where the other driver did not have a license or insurance this is a bit personal. I even went to court the day the person's ticket came up and they were there with the lawyer "please don't take away my client's DL, you'll impact their ability to support their family, blah, blah, blah". The person then (finally) produced proof of insurance and was supposedly ordered to make restitution to me.

Never happened. When I went to a lawyer I was pretty much told to give it up since the person was "judgment proof". So I, the responsible one WITH insurance who DID NOT cause the accident ended up out of pocket for $750 deductible (pretty much the total cost of repair).

So basically if you don't have assets there are no consequences to not having insurance. I think this is wrong a people at least should have to do an hour of MANDATORY community service for every dollar in damages done.





Anyone else have any ideas on how to fix this?

[Wisconsin Beth]

Dec 3, 2012 13:28:26 GMT -5 The Captain said:

I even went to court the day the person's ticket came up and they were there with the lawyer "please don't take away my client's DL, you'll impact their ability to support their family, blah, blah, blah". The person then (finally) produced proof of insurance and was supposedly ordered to make restitution to me.

How did he get a license inbetween hitting you and going to court?

Based on listening to a former coworker complain about how hard it was to get her son a dl due to tickets, dui and driving without a license, it was an ongoing saga.

I don't have any real suggestions but it bugs the snot out of me that people drive without a license.

[swamp]

NY no insurance conviction: Mandatory one year revocation of driving license with no hardship/conditional license. Pay $1000 civil penalty before you get your license back.

A big detriment to law abiding people. NOt so much to criminals.

[Deleted]

I've been rear ended twice by uninsured drivers.

[The Captain]

Dec 3, 2012 13:33:22 GMT -5 Wisconsin Beth said:

Dec 3, 2012 13:28:26 GMT -5 The Captain said:

I even went to court the day the person's ticket came up and they were there with the lawyer "please don't take away my client's DL, you'll impact their ability to support their family, blah, blah, blah". The person then (finally) produced proof of insurance and was supposedly ordered to make restitution to me.

How did he get a license inbetween hitting you and going to court?

Based on listening to a former coworker complain about how hard it was to get her son a dl due to tickets, dui and driving without a license, it was an ongoing saga.

I don't have any real suggestions but it bugs the snot out of me that people drive without a license.

You show up with a letter from the insurance company as "proof of insurance" when you go to get DL. Get DL in hand, then cancel the insurance the next day.

Seriously, there is a place called "On the spot insurance" right next to the DL facility where I go to get mine renewed. They charge a $125 (or so) "processing fee" for the letter and supposedly bill the rest of the insurance premium later on. It's a scam and everyone knows it but apparently completely legal. The secretary of state does not do any checking agains cancelled policies and active drivers.

And yea, there are Plenty of people in my area who drive without DL's. It's a huge problem.

[The Walk of the Penguin Mich]

I don't think that there is any way to fix it. IMO, the best you can do is insure yourself sufficiently when this happens so you have the resources to make yourself whole again.

Interestingly, after my accident with an uninsured driver (she had produced what appeared to be a valid insurance card, but insurance had lapsed the day before the accident due to non payment), I contacted the police to let them know that she was also uninsured. The police really weren't too interested in amending the police report.

[Deleted]

I drove my car without registration for a few years, but I always had insurance and a driver's license. Some people just don't belong in a civilized society.

[Deleted]

Seriously, there is a place called "On the spot insurance" right next to the DL facility where I go to get mine renewed. They charge a $125 (or so) "processing fee" for the letter and supposedly bill the rest of the insurance premium later on. It's a scam and everyone knows it but apparently completely legal.

[The Walk of the Penguin Mich]

Someone is judgement proof if they don't have a job or resources. No job, nothing to garnish if they do get a judgement against him. All that they get is a slap on the wrist and if they need a loan, they'll be denied. Chances are, they would be denied anyway due to non payment of other bills.

[justme]

I forget the details cuz I was a teen and didn't care much, but my mom was hit by an uninsured kid and the judge did something, somehow, that if he didn't pay my parents back the deductible than he would go to jail. I guess from driving without insurance and the judge had enough leeway to do that? I think she got her money. I think that could fix part of it. Actually start prosecuting - pay the restitution or go to jail for a certain amount of time. If they choose jail you can still do small claims.

Does uninsured go under collision or comprehensive (for damage to the car)? If it was comprehensive I'd prob consider keeping that deductible lower - sucky to have to come up with a chunk of change when someone hits you/tree falls on your car/street floods/anything that's not your fault. I also keep pretty high UM for myself.

[Clever Username]

Dec 3, 2012 13:28:26 GMT -5 The Captain said:

The person then (finally) produced proof of insurance and was supposedly ordered to make restitution to me.

Never happened.

I've got two sides to this coin.
First, your side.
Either have enough cash to make a brush with the lawless annoying.
Or carry un/underinsured motorist insurance.

Second, on their side.
Send a polite letter to the judge and AG's office notifying them of his failure to comply.
As you saw with his SR22 Insurance, when he's boxed into a corner where he's forced to comply, he complies. So, try to box him in. Not worth loosing sleep over, but worth two letters.

Some judges get really ornery about people ignoring their orders.

[The Captain]

Judgement proof was explained to me to cover two situations:

1. Very low income so no assets to attach to and likely to easily change jobs to avoid wage garnishments; or
2. Illegal (we're a sanctuary state/city) alien so nothing is going to happen to you even if you present false ID (which many do).

I was a witness to another accident where the officer didn't even bother to arrest the driver because they didn't speak english. Again, no insurance, no drivers license.

[Iggy aka IG]

In our state driving without insurance can lead up to your vehicle being impounded, court, a fine, and your drivers license being revoked. It also initiates a SR22 endorsement requirement on your insurance policy for up to 3 years.

As to the question in the OP regarding how to fix it: On a state level you can complain to the DOI, but I doubt it will change anything.

[Deleted]

2. Illegal (we're a sanctuary state/city) alien so nothing is going to happen to you even if you present false ID (which many do).

My state used to give drivers licenses to everybody with little checking to make sure they were actual legal residents. Illegal aliens used to come here from other states just to get a license. It got to the point where the feds said that if we didn't change no one could use an OR license to fly. After stricter guidelines were put in place a few years ago renewals dropped by a 150 thousand a year. Considering we have a population of less than four million it was pretty shocking.

[The Captain]

Dec 3, 2012 14:04:33 GMT -5 @anne81 said:

2. Illegal (we're a sanctuary state/city) alien so nothing is going to happen to you even if you present false ID (which many do).

My state used to give drivers licenses to everybody with little checking to make sure they were actual legal residents. Illegal aliens used to come here from other states just to get a license. It got to the point where the feds said that if we didn't change no one could use an OR license to fly. After stricter guidelines were put in place a few years ago renewals dropped by a 150 thousand a year. Considering we have a population of less than four million it was pretty shocking.

WOW - that's close to a 40% fradulent rate (assuming renewals every 8 years and some people are too young/old to drive...)

[michelyn8]

Dec 3, 2012 13:40:58 GMT -5 The Captain said:

Dec 3, 2012 13:33:22 GMT -5 Wisconsin Beth said:

How did he get a license inbetween hitting you and going to court?

Based on listening to a former coworker complain about how hard it was to get her son a dl due to tickets, dui and driving without a license, it was an ongoing saga.

I don't have any real suggestions but it bugs the snot out of me that people drive without a license.

You show up with a letter from the insurance company as "proof of insurance" when you go to get DL. Get DL in hand, then cancel the insurance the next day.

Seriously, there is a place called "On the spot insurance" right next to the DL facility where I go to get mine renewed. They charge a $125 (or so) "processing fee" for the letter and supposedly bill the rest of the insurance premium later on. It's a scam and everyone knows it but apparently completely legal. The secretary of state does not do any checking agains cancelled policies and active drivers.

And yea, there are Plenty of people in my area who drive without DL's. It's a huge problem.

I don't know how other states work, but her in VA, DMV has only ever asked me about insurance on the vehicle I'm licensing, not me. At the time I obtain or renew tags, I've always had to "certify" the car was covered by the minimum liability coverage required by law. If not, then I could choose to come back when I could prove coverage or pay the Uninsured Motorist fee. Of course there is nothing stopping you from certifying its covered even if its not. I've never had to verify insurance (that I remember) when I renew my DL.

I've had some companies report to DMV that they no longer insured my car when I switched to a different one. When that happend, I'd get a letter giving me something like 30 days to prove the car was actually insured on a certain that was prior to the date of the letter. This prevented me from going and getting coverage, responding and then cancelling - I assume.

Also, when my driving record was reaaallly bad from lots of speeding tickets very close together - no accidents - I was put on probation for something like 90 days and required to carried increased coverage for 3 years.

I think the issue you're talking about could be controlled if insurance carriers were required to report to each state's DMV when coverage lapses on a person or vehicle and then that person/owner should have to prove they were actually covered on that date by another company or pay a fine.

[Deleted]

Yeah - like I said it took a threat from the feds before the state would do anything. But now our legislature is talking about licenses for undocumented immigrants. According to the governor's office 1000 illegal aliens are unable to renew their license each month and the rest is due to people aging out or choosing to go without cars.

edited: it was 150k the first year and now 100k.

[sheilaincali]

DH was t-boned when an uninsured motorist driving his mom's POS car ran a stop sign. Cops were completely unconcerned about the kid having no insurance (his mother didn't have insurance either). The kid was 18 or 19. Cops claimed they wrote him a ticket. We didn't see a dime out of them. DH's truck was deemed a total loss and our insurance company paid out to us less our deductible.
I considered suing him but it was going to be a pain in the ass. He lived in a different county and small claims goes by his county of residence. Wasn't worth driving 45 minutes every time we had a court date. Plus I had no hopes that we would ever get a dime out of him.

He was driving a nearly 20 year old car. I know a couple of the tow truck drives, they towed it and he never stopped by to get it out of impound or pick up any of his personal belongings.

They could suspend his license but judging from what we were able to find out about him I doubt that would have stopped him from driving anyway.

[ontrack]

I am sure the DMV checks to make sure that my registered car has insurance because I was able to verify my identity when I moved in part by choosing a multiple choice question of what company my car was insured with (I never gave them that info).

[justme]

Dec 3, 2012 15:02:36 GMT -5 ontrack said:

I am sure the DMV checks to make sure that my registered car has insurance because I was able to verify my identity when I moved in part by choosing a multiple choice question of what company my car was insured with (I never gave them that info).

I've been asked that when running my credit report. Maybe they all pull the verification info from the same place?

[bean29]

I share your frustration. I live in WI and after our Mandatory insurance law went into effect I was T-boned by an uninsured driver. I would at least like her to pay my deductible, but no one cares but me.

It is not worth it for my insurance co to pursue it b/c she is judgment proof. I suspect she may be an Asian illegal immigrant.

I called the state to see if her license was suspended but no it was not.

[Mardi Gras Audrey]

Dec 3, 2012 13:42:46 GMT -5 @lonewolf said:

I walked through our Walmart parking lot the other day and noted 6 cars in one row that had expired tags, so not even sure our law enforcement is keeping up with that.

Hey, some of us are just lazy...

My current registration sticker was put on last week... I renewed it last July. The reason it was put on last week? I finally got a parking ticket for the out of date registration and had to "fix it" before they would knock the price down (car was registered the whole time-sticker was sitting in the glove box ). The part that sucked was the ticket was issued on a recent rainy day so I had to shake the wet out of the ticket and let it dry out before paying it...

The crazy part was that it wasn't the city that gave me the ticket, it was our school's security force. I parked in an area that is crawling with city parking enforcement folks and they never gave me a ticket for it (In 4 months!). That day, I even spoke to one who was giving a ticket to the car next to mine. He didn't even mention giving me a ticket for my "invalid" registration.

[ChiTownVenture]

NV requires the insurance agencies to report the coverage status of every registered auto on a monthly basis. If the insurance lapse (due to lack of payment or expiration, etc) they revoke the registration and require that the license plates be returned. They then charge a large fee for reinstatement. While this does not prevent people from driving without insurance I do think it helps by allowing the police to quickly identify cars without registration/insurance. It also penalizes drives that allow their insurance to lapse.

[jeep108]

Police will take the plate off of your car and your fined $500 if you don't have proof of ins. here. DMV is sent notice if your ins policy is expired as well.

[Mardi Gras Audrey]

ChiTown,

Doesn't PA do that too? The show Parking Wars is always showing them ticketing and towing people for no insurance/insurance lapses. The people get mad at the Parking Authority but come on, you want to drive, GET AND MAINTAIN proper insurance. It isn't that hard. If you can't do it, get a bus pass or a bicycle!

[The Walk of the Penguin Mich]

Dec 3, 2012 14:02:49 GMT -5 Iggy aka IG said:

In our state driving without insurance can lead up to your vehicle being impounded, court, a fine, and your drivers license being revoked. It also initiates a SR22 endorsement requirement on your insurance policy for up to 3 years.

As to the question in the OP regarding how to fix it: On a state level you can complain to the DOI, but I doubt it will change anything.

But if the person has what appears to be a valid insurance card, the police don't investigate any further. They drive their car away and no one is wiser.....until your insurance company goes after their's.

[ChiTownVenture]

Dec 3, 2012 16:50:48 GMT -5 Mardi Gras Audrey said:

ChiTown,

Doesn't PA do that too? The show Parking Wars is always showing them ticketing and towing people for no insurance/insurance lapses. The people get mad at the Parking Authority but come on, you want to drive, GET AND MAINTAIN proper insurance. It isn't that hard. If you can't do it, get a bus pass or a bicycle!

I think there may be a few states that do, and some that revoke the divers license as well. I've only had experience with CA, NV and IL.

[Mardi Gras Audrey]

Dec 3, 2012 16:55:14 GMT -5 @lonewolf said:

I watch that show all the time and wish CA would do something like this. But how can they?? Can't be stopping the illegals from getting to work.

I love that show! I am such a nerd but I wish they would record near our area. We live on a very busy street where parking is at a major premium. I'm always hearing drama about street cleaning, tickets, parking, everything. It's crazy to listen to! It's always interesting to see how people park and get to know who takes up 2 spaces (I know we don't actually have "spaces" on street parking but people who park in the middle of a wide area so no one else can park there are jerks). I love my neighborhood but some of the people just have no consideration for others..

[ontrack]

Here in the DC/Northern VA area they're replacing a lot of meters with those machines that require you to pay at the station and show you're receipt on the car. I've noticed this has led to less efficient parking than would happen with the meters and spaced marked out. People leave over half a car length between them and the next car. Very rude.

[The Walk of the Penguin Mich]

Dec 3, 2012 17:03:02 GMT -5 @lonewolf said:

Dec 3, 2012 16:58:53 GMT -5 The Walk of the Penguin Mich said:

But if the person has what appears to be a valid insurance card, the police don't investigate any further. They drive their car away and no one is wiser.....until your insurance company goes after their's.

And why don't the police investigate further? Just easier to let the rest of us pay?

Why should they? Their paperwork is apparently in order and they have a valid insurance card.

Think of it this way.....do you really want your police force calling each and every traffic stop to make sure that each policy is valid? Can you imagine the manpower required? And the additional cost to the taxpayer?