Why I Refuse To Vote For Barrack Obama

[AgeOfEnlightenmentSCP]

...The case against casting a ballot for the president -- even if you think he's better than Mitt Romney...

The Atlantic isn't exactly hard right, or even centrist stuff...

Is Obama losing the kook vote?

www.theatlantic.com/politics/archive/2012/09/why-i-refuse-to-vote-for-barack-obama/262861/

[cereb]

"Is Obama losing the kook vote?"

Well, you did say you were not going to vote for him, so yes I would say that makes it official.

[Virgil Showlion]

The author's grievances with Pres. Obama:

I find Obama likable when I see him on TV. He is a caring husband and father, a thoughtful speaker, and possessed of an inspirational biography. On stage, as he smiles into the camera, using words to evoke some of the best sentiments within us, it's hard to believe certain facts about him:

• Obama terrorizes innocent Pakistanis on an almost daily basis. The drone war he is waging in North Waziristan isn't "precise" or "surgical" as he would have Americans believe. It kills hundreds of innocents, including children. And for thousands of more innocents who live in the targeted communities, the drone war makes their lives into a nightmare worthy of dystopian novels. People are always afraid. Women cower in their homes. Children are kept out of school. The stress they endure gives them psychiatric disorders. Men are driven crazy by an inability to sleep as drones buzz overhead 24 hours a day, a deadly strike possible at any moment. At worst, this policy creates more terrorists than it kills; at best, America is ruining the lives of thousands of innocent people and killing hundreds of innocents for a small increase in safety from terrorists. It is a cowardly, immoral, and illegal policy, deliberately cloaked in opportunistic secrecy. And Democrats who believe that it is the most moral of all responsible policy alternatives are as misinformed and blinded by partisanship as any conservative ideologue.
  
  
• Obama established one of the most reckless precedents imaginable: that any president can secretly order and oversee the extrajudicial killing of American citizens. Obama's kill list transgresses against the Constitution as egregiously as anything George W. Bush ever did. It is as radical an invocation of executive power as anything Dick Cheney championed. The fact that the Democrats rebelled against those men before enthusiastically supporting Obama is hackery every bit as blatant and shameful as anything any talk radio host has done.
  
  
• Contrary to his own previously stated understanding of what the Constitution and the War Powers Resolution demand, President Obama committed U.S. forces to war in Libya without Congressional approval, despite the lack of anything like an imminent threat to national security.

Many of these are exactly the reason DJ has his "don't vote for either of the rotters" campaign. I agree.

[Peace Of Mind]

Sept 27, 2012 19:19:40 GMT -5 cereb said:

"Is Obama losing the kook vote?"

Well, you did say you were not going to vote for him, so yes I would say that makes it official.

Not this Kook or Mr. Kook's vote and he's Republican. ;D

[b2r]

Ralph Nader: President Obama’s a ‘war criminal’


It’s no surprise that Ralph Nader isn’t a fan of former President George W. Bush. After all, the longtime activist ran against him in both 2000 and 2004. But Nader’s even less a fan of President Barack Obama, if only because he thinks Obama was capable of so much more.

On issues related to the military and foreign policy, Obama’s worse than Bush, “in the sense that he’s more aggressive, more illegal worldwide,” Nader told POLITICO, going so far as to call Obama a “war criminal.”

“He’s gone beyond George W. Bush in drones, for example. He thinks the world is his plate, that national sovereignties mean nothing, drones can go anywhere. They can kill anybody that he suspects and every Tuesday he makes the call on who lives and who dies, supposed suspects in places like Yemen and Pakistan and Afghanistan, and that is a war crime and he ought to be held to account.”

Read more: www.politico.com/news/stories/0912/81649.html#ixzz27imfOjUb

[Opti]

And I won't vote for Miitt Romney.

[mmhmm]

Several months ago, I read an interesting article on the "kill list" and quite a few other things. While not particularly flattering to the president, it isn't particularly condemnatory either. I went looking for it:

www.nytimes.com/2012/05/29/world/obamas-leadership-in-war-on-al-qaeda.html?pagewanted=all&_r=0

[Don Perignon]

Alas, the stubbornness of spoiled children!

"Why I Refuse To Vote For Barrack Obama

Sept 27, 2012 19:17:19 GMT -5 AgeOfEnlightenmentSCP said:

...The case against casting a ballot for the president -- even if you think he's better than Mitt Romney...

The Atlantic isn't exactly hard right, or even centrist stuff...

Is Obama losing the kook vote?

www.theatlantic.com/politics/archive/2012/09/why-i-refuse-to-vote-for-barack-obama/262861/

The tantrum is commencing a bit early this election cycle.
The "Look at me, I'm kicking, screaming, acting out and making a scene!!!" threads aren't supposed to come until after the humiliating defeat.

[Virgil Showlion]

Sept 27, 2012 20:00:42 GMT -5 mmhmm said:

Several months ago, I read an interesting article on the "kill list" and quite a few other things. While not particularly flattering to the president, it isn't particularly condemnatory either. I went looking for it:

www.nytimes.com/2012/05/29/world/obamas-leadership-in-war-on-al-qaeda.html?pagewanted=all&_r=0

Indeed. Read the article.

I find it absolutely damning.

[mmhmm]

Oddly, Virgil, I didn't. I'm no Obama fan, but that article seemed to tell it much like it is. As I said, it certainly wasn't flattering; however, unlike you, I didn't find it damning, either. I can admire the resolve to take the responsibility for making decisions as to what/who/where will be targeted upon yourself rather than farming it out so you can play dumb later. War is dirty work. That's why thinking people loathe it.

[Virgil Showlion]

I can admire the resolve to take the responsibility for making decisions as to what/who/where will be targeted upon yourself rather than farming it out so you can play dumb later. War is dirty work. That's why thinking people loathe it.

He's institutionalized covert assassination—and murder, as far as I'm concerned.

He's worse than the Mullahs who put a blanket fatwa on members of the US administration. At least they have the compunction to face their own people when they demand blood.

I'm with "The Atlantic" on this one. If we use "war is dirty work" as an excuse to throw our own laws to the wind, then the laws mean nothing. And if that's the case, we have no right to criticize torture, genocide, human shields, war rape, or any other atrocity, because the only thing between civilization and hell is a set of laws that we no longer care about.

[Don Perignon]

Why I Refuse To Vote For Barrack Obama
« Thread Started Today at 7:17pm »

After four years of Barack Obama serving as President of the United States of America and "Leader of the Western World", the least you could do is learn that "Barack" is spelled using only one "r".
The least.

[mmhmm]

As I said, Virgil, most thinking people abhor war. Yet, we've been waging war for as long as we've been sentient and it's never been done with any compunction at all. If you're going to order slaughter, whether of one, or of many, at least have the conviction to take the decision upon yourself. I'll give the man that. Then again, I'm not biased in either direction ... conservative nor liberal.

[billisonboard]

I agree with the author of the article in the OP. The guy is my kind of "kook".

[Virgil Showlion]

If you're going to order slaughter, whether of one, or of many, at least have the conviction to take the decision upon yourself. I'll give the man that.

Fine, I'll give him that much too.

Also, kudos to Bernie Madoff for bilking investors out of billions all by himself, without delegating to lesser funds managers. We can all admire his conviction.

[chiver78]

Sept 27, 2012 21:05:13 GMT -5 Virgil Showlion said:

If you're going to order slaughter, whether of one, or of many, at least have the conviction to take the decision upon yourself. I'll give the man that.

Fine, I'll give him that much too.

Also, kudos to Bernie Madoff for bilking investors out of billions all by himself, without delegating to lesser funds managers. We can all admire his conviction.

if you're going to condemn the man for doing his job, at least compare him to the appropriate peers - Bush 2, Clinton, Bush, Reagan, Carter, and further on down the line. don't compare him to a guy that chose to pull the wool over on his clients in a pyramid scheme.

I'm not a fan of his either, but would you be passing the same judgment on McCain? somehow I doubt that.

[Loopdilou]

4 years and Paul still can't spell the President's name right. It's shocking he's not voting for him

[Virgil Showlion]

I'm not a fan of his either, but would you be passing the same judgment on McCain? somehow I doubt that.

If he threw the US Constitution to the wind to hand pick American citizens for covert assassination, you'd better believe I would.

Bush, Cheney et al. introducing military kangaroo courts, the preemptive war doctrine, torture, etc. were acts condemned by everyone here, including myself. "Hope and Change" was supposed to be about undoing the damage they'd caused, not perpetuating the same abuses of power and adding whole new ones.

[Sum Dum Gai]

Bush, Cheney et al. introducing military kangaroo courts, the preemptive war doctrine, torture, etc. were acts condemned by everyone here, including myself. "Hope and Change" was supposed to be about undoing the damage they'd caused, not perpetuating the same abuses of power and adding whole new ones.

Bingo! Osama Bin Laden may be dead, and GM may be alive, but Gitmo is still open, and the president now has the authority to covertly assassinate or indefinitely detain US citizens. No thanks Mr. President.

[chiver78]

Sept 27, 2012 21:25:13 GMT -5 Virgil Showlion said:

I'm not a fan of his either, but would you be passing the same judgment on McCain? somehow I doubt that.

If he threw the US Constitution to the wind to hand pick American citizens for covert assassination, you'd better believe I would.

Bush, Cheney et al. introducing military kangaroo courts, the preemptive war doctrine, torture, etc. were acts condemned by everyone here, including myself. "Hope and Change" was supposed to be about undoing the damage they'd caused, not perpetuating the same abuses of power and adding whole new ones.

and if you think Romney's going to do anything differently, I've got a bridge I'd like to sell you.

I've said many places here, as have others - there are many things I don't like about Obama. problem is, Romney's the same on those issues, if not worse. vote (I know you can't, this YOU is collective) the issues you can actually do something about, and hopefully that means we have a valid and viable third party. maybe not this time, but next time. if we don't keep working toward trashing the two-party system, things are never going to change.

[billisonboard]

Sept 27, 2012 21:25:13 GMT -5 Virgil Showlion said:

I'm not a fan of his either, but would you be passing the same judgment on McCain? somehow I doubt that.

If he threw the US Constitution to the wind to hand pick American citizens for covert assassination, you'd better believe I would.

Bush, Cheney et al. introducing military kangaroo courts, the preemptive war doctrine, torture, etc. were acts condemned by everyone here, including myself. "Hope and Change" was supposed to be about undoing the damage they'd caused, not perpetuating the same abuses of power and adding whole new ones.

"On January 20th, 2009, if George Bush and Dick Cheney are not appropriately held to account this Administration will hand off a toolbox with more powers than any President has ever had, more powers than the founders could have imagined. And that box may be handed to Hillary Clinton or it may be handed to Mitt Romney or Barack Obama or someone else. But whoever gets it, one of the things we know about power is that people don't give away the tools." — John Nichols www.pbs.org/moyers/journal/07132007/profile.html

Needed to impeach Bush and Cheney. Need to impeach Obama. House is so partisan that they could never do it.

[Sum Dum Gai]

and if you think Romney's going to do anything differently, I've got a bridge I'd like to sell you.

And that's why I can't vote for him either. So third party it is.

[Peace Of Mind]

Sept 27, 2012 21:35:10 GMT -5 Sum Dum Gai said:

and if you think Romney's going to do anything differently, I've got a bridge I'd like to sell you.

And that's why I can't vote for him either. So third party it is.

You might as well stay home then.

[Sum Dum Gai]

I live in California, my vote wasn't going to matter anyway.

[Sum Dum Gai]

Besides, there are advantages to "wasted" third party votes. For one, they have to reach a certain threshold in the previous election cycle to qualify for public campaign funds in the next one. More important though, if a candidate like Gary Johnson get's even 5% of the vote it causes the two parties to look at his platform and see how they can modify their own to take those voters away from him. So my candidate can't get elected, but if it causes your candidate to change some of his positions that I don't agree with anyway, then my vote did matter.

[Virgil Showlion]

if we don't keep working toward trashing the two-party system, things are never going to change.

Agreed.

I suspect you're also right that Mr. Romney would be just as bad. I'd like to give him the benefit of the doubt, but it's no secret that the military industrial complex has been his financial backing from the beginning. That was one of the reasons I asserted he'd win the Republican nomination back in August 2011.

[b2r]

Barack Obama

4 years later and spell check selections are.

Ba rack.............ABM
Ba-rack.............IBM
Barrack.............AMA
Brock ...............Abeam
Brick.................ABMs
Bareback..........Asama
Barracks...........ABA
Brake...............Baum
Break...............Omar
Brocky..............Beam
Back.................Alma
Bark.................Obs
Rack.................AM
Brok.................Abba
Brag.................Am
Barrage............BM
Bract.................OB
Wrack...............Ob
Black.................Obadiah
Brace ...............Bomb
Crack................Boom
Track.................Om
Bragg................Abra
Brook................Abram
.........................Burma....Irma...Barmy...lamb...Ob's...Occam....Ame...Ami...Amy...BMW...Eba...Ema...OMB...Oby...
Bum...Obi...Ohm...Obj...Abramo...IBM's...Ebba...Emma...Erma...Obie...EBay...Obey...Oboe...Alabama

What's your favorite "real" spelling?

Black Obadiah?
Bareback Alabama?
Crack lamb?

[Virgil Showlion]

I'll bet two thirds of the people reading this don't know what Mitt Romney's first name is without Googling it.

[chiver78]

Sept 27, 2012 21:49:27 GMT -5 Sum Dum Gai said:

Besides, there are advantages to "wasted" third party votes. For one, they have to reach a certain threshold in the previous election cycle to qualify for public campaign funds in the next one. More important though, if a candidate like Gary Johnson get's even 5% of the vote it causes the two parties to look at his platform and see how they can modify their own to take those voters away from him. So my candidate can't get elected, but if it causes your candidate to change some of his positions that I don't agree with anyway, then my vote did matter.

not just campaign funds, but entry into nationally televised debates (although I think the threshold is a bit higher for that..?) - how else are we to get visibility for the third parties if we can't actually get them air time with the major parties?

I saw your first comment about living in CA and having a "wasted" vote, and was about to reply back with a snark that I'm in MA and am finding something productive to do with my own "wasted" vote"

[chiver78]

Sept 27, 2012 22:00:20 GMT -5 b2r said:

Barack Obama

4 years later and spell check selections are.

Ba rack.............ABM
Ba-rack.............IBM
Barrack.............AMA
Brock ...............Abeam
Brick.................ABMs
Bareback..........Asama
Barracks...........ABA
Brake...............Baum
Break...............Omar
Brocky..............Beam
Back.................Alma
Bark.................Obs
Rack.................AM
Brok.................Abba
Brag.................Am
Barrage............BM
Bract.................OB
Wrack...............Ob
Black.................Obadiah
Brace ...............Bomb
Crack................Boom
Track.................Om
Bragg................Abra
Brook................Abram
.........................Burma....Irma...Barmy...lamb...Ob's...Occam....Ame...Ami...Amy...BMW...Eba...Ema...OMB...Oby...
Bum...Obi...Ohm...Obj...Abramo...IBM's...Ebba...Emma...Erma...Obie...EBay...Obey...Oboe...Alabama

What's your favorite "real" spelling?

Black Obadiah?
Bareback Alabama?
Crack lamb?

wow. I really have no words for this one.