Rocky Mtn Saver
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Post by Rocky Mtn Saver on Sept 25, 2012 11:37:11 GMT -5
Interesting points, Mid. And in the case of, for example, blind people being barred from driving for public and personal safety reasons . Does anyone supposed there are ONE blind person who WANTS to drive??? Of course they'd like to drive! If you were denied something that most other people did routinely and contributed to their independence, you'd long to do it too. I saw a blind guy on Mythbusters, I think, and he was having a blast! The challenge was for the passenger to succesfully direct the blind driver.
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tloonya
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Post by tloonya on Sept 25, 2012 11:43:01 GMT -5
I just want to make sure I understand - black people lack ID's so asking them for one when they want to vote is racist?
Lena I didn't think this is fun thread! So wouldn't IDing people actually lower minority votes because they do not have an IDs? Is that what is going on here? Minorities vote elimination??? Winner winner, chicken dinner! ;D Considering that it is nearly all Republican officials that are pushing through these Voter ID laws before the November elections, yes, that's clearly what they're targeting. Minorities tend to vote Democrat. The actual problem of voter fraud is statistically small, and true cases of voter fraud tend to be through absentee balloting and other problems that Voter ID Laws won't address. See how smart I am! And I thought of it all on my own! Seriously...I have no objection to minorities not voting because they are voting out of their asses anyway!
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tloonya
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Post by tloonya on Sept 25, 2012 11:46:58 GMT -5
Does anyone supposed there are ONE blind person who WANTS to drive??? Of course they'd like to drive! If you were denied something that most other people did routinely and contributed to their independence, you'd long to do it too. I saw a blind guy on Mythbusters, I think, and he was having a blast! The challenge was for the passenger to succesfully direct the blind driver. Thats another dumbass 'want'... If I know I am lack of coordination and can be dangerous to YOU on the road - I have my DL but I have opted not to drive... If someone blind wants to drive - he better be locked up.
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Sum Dum Gai
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Post by Sum Dum Gai on Sept 25, 2012 11:47:05 GMT -5
I feel the exact same way about immigrants with poor english language skills who own small businesses that sell overpriced crap to the poor.
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Rocky Mtn Saver
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Post by Rocky Mtn Saver on Sept 25, 2012 11:49:06 GMT -5
Of course they'd like to drive! If you were denied something that most other people did routinely and contributed to their independence, you'd long to do it too. I saw a blind guy on Mythbusters, I think, and he was having a blast! The challenge was for the passenger to succesfully direct the blind driver. Thats another dumbass 'want'... If I know I am lack of coordination and can be dangerous to YOU on the road - I have my DL but I have opted not to drive... If someone blind wants to drive - he better be locked up. There's a difference between WANTING to do something and DOING it. I WANT to live ion a big mansion on a beautiful private tropical island. I know that in reality, that's not likely to HAPPEN any time soon. Let the blind people dream, dude.
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Rocky Mtn Saver
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Post by Rocky Mtn Saver on Sept 25, 2012 11:49:21 GMT -5
I feel the exact same way about immigrants with poor english language skills who own small businesses that sell overpriced crap to the poor.
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tloonya
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Post by tloonya on Sept 25, 2012 12:07:03 GMT -5
I feel the exact same way about immigrants with poor english language skills who own small businesses that sell overpriced crap to the poor. I do not vote. For the described above reason. This country did well without me messing it up. Who wants to be responsible for electing a moron?
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Sum Dum Gai
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Post by Sum Dum Gai on Sept 25, 2012 12:10:46 GMT -5
It's not entirely a bad thing. I voted for Bush in 2000. Occasional fuck ups like that keep a person humble. They're a constant reminder to pull your head out of your ass when deciding who to vote for in the future because you don't want to repeat your mistakes.
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Rocky Mtn Saver
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Post by Rocky Mtn Saver on Sept 25, 2012 12:11:05 GMT -5
I do not vote. For the described above reason. This country did well without me messing it up. Who wants to be responsible for electing a moron? Hey, if everyone asked that question, no one would vote for anyone! ;D
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whoisjohngalt
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Post by whoisjohngalt on Sept 25, 2012 12:21:17 GMT -5
Mid, see, now we are getting in the world of all kinds of caveats and technicalities. If I had more time and was more creative, I could probably find ways to show why this particular law (ID's and voting), although may be "technically" discriminatory is still OK, etc etc etc. just like other ones are.
Beach, no English is not my 1st language.
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tloonya
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Post by tloonya on Sept 25, 2012 12:21:58 GMT -5
Thats another dumbass 'want'... If I know I am lack of coordination and can be dangerous to YOU on the road - I have my DL but I have opted not to drive... If someone blind wants to drive - he better be locked up. There's a difference between WANTING to do something and DOING it. I WANT to live ion a big mansion on a beautiful private tropical island. I know that in reality, that's not likely to HAPPEN any time soon. Let the blind people dream, dude. Dream safely...
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tloonya
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Post by tloonya on Sept 25, 2012 12:27:18 GMT -5
I do not vote. For the described above reason. This country did well without me messing it up. Who wants to be responsible for electing a moron? Hey, if everyone asked that question, no one would vote for anyone! ;D Maybe thats not a bad thing...
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Deleted
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Post by Deleted on Sept 25, 2012 12:41:09 GMT -5
Interesting points, Mid. And in the case of, for example, blind people being barred from driving for public and personal safety reasons . Does anyone supposed there are ONE blind person who WANTS to drive??? Probably. There were news stories a few years ago about a blind person getting their hunting license. I think they used laser sights or something. Ultimately, my understanding is that hunting is 50% drinking beer with your buddies and 49% sitting in the cold bored out of your skull and less than 1% shooting things. Seems to me like you could approximate the experience without the gun, but I'm not a hunter...
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Rocky Mtn Saver
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Post by Rocky Mtn Saver on Sept 25, 2012 12:42:17 GMT -5
Hey, if everyone asked that question, no one would vote for anyone! ;D Maybe thats not a bad thing... Well, then how would the morons get elected?
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tloonya
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Post by tloonya on Sept 25, 2012 13:12:20 GMT -5
Maybe thats not a bad thing... Well, then how would the morons get elected? We can turn to Russia for points. Lately it seems they are just appointing each other and it works...ping-pong election. Putin-Medvedev-Putin...I am surer it'll be Medvedev...again!!! Ahhhh...nothing ever changes in that fucking land!!! Seriously how our moron will get elected? By only those who is SURE they want that one and will vote for that one. No 'undesided' or 'notsurelies'...only those who are sure! We must try. What do we have to lose? Obama?
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hoops902
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Post by hoops902 on Sept 25, 2012 22:29:44 GMT -5
Oh. I'm not a big fan of using the racist word. But to suggest there is not a racial component to ID laws, when minorities possess IDs at such a measurably lower rate than Caucasians. SOMEONE is always going to be measurably affected by all laws though. On one hand there's creating laws specifically to affect races differently, on the other there's creating laws which make sense which happen to affect one race more than another for whatever reason. It's like saying laws against polygamy are racist since caucasians are FAR more likely to practice polygamy than other races. There's no real racial component though, it just works out that one group happens to be more affected than another. Also, it's not as if anyone is prevented from getting a government-issued ID.
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Deleted
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Post by Deleted on Sept 26, 2012 7:06:21 GMT -5
Many will be prevented in the time available. We've already established the law is textbook discriminatory. I'm hoping for an overrule, but not holding my breath....
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Opti
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Post by Opti on Sept 26, 2012 7:31:57 GMT -5
Oh. I'm not a big fan of using the racist word. But to suggest there is not a racial component to ID laws, when minorities possess IDs at such a measurably lower rate than Caucasians. SOMEONE is always going to be measurably affected by all laws though. On one hand there's creating laws specifically to affect races differently, on the other there's creating laws which make sense which happen to affect one race more than another for whatever reason. It's like saying laws against polygamy are racist since caucasians are FAR more likely to practice polygamy than other races. There's no real racial component though, it just works out that one group happens to be more affected than another. Also, it's not as if anyone is prevented from getting a government-issued ID. My guess is you think this law makes sense. I don't. Proving identity IMO doesn't need to be by government issued ID.
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zibazinski
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Post by zibazinski on Sept 26, 2012 8:25:23 GMT -5
Does anyone ever wonder why there's Braille in the drive up windows? I mean, if you're blind, are you driving? The ATM in the drive thru specifically.
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973beachbum
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Post by 973beachbum on Sept 26, 2012 8:33:30 GMT -5
Does anyone ever wonder why there's Braille in the drive up windows? I mean, if you're blind, are you driving? The ATM in the drive thru specifically. The ATM's are universal. They don't have a different one for the drive through than for the one inside the bank. It is just cheaper that way.
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zibazinski
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Post by zibazinski on Sept 26, 2012 16:39:21 GMT -5
Oh, good. It actually creeps me out. I kept thinking someone who can barely see is out driving.. Florida must do that to me.
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Post by Deleted on Sept 28, 2012 23:00:14 GMT -5
I wonder why Mitt thinks Pennsylvania is in play? .... Mitt Romney declared Pennsylvania a battleground during a mid-morning rally here Friday, despite public polls showing him well behind in the race for the state’s prized 20 electoral votes. “I’ve got a little secret here and that is that the Obama campaign thinks that Pennsylvania is in their pocket. They don’t need to worry about it,” Romney said during a visit to a military academy in the Philadelphia suburbs. “And you’re right and they’re wrong. We’re going to win Pennsylvania and we’re going to take the White House.” Read more: www.politico.com/news/stories/0912/81789.html#ixzz27pOMW7Qf
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2kids10horses
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Post by 2kids10horses on Sept 29, 2012 23:46:33 GMT -5
Carl made a mention in the original post about "fundamental rights", inplying that everyone has a "Fundamental Right" to vote.
They do not.
Voting is a priviledge.
If it takes some effort to exercize a priviledge, so be it.
Here in GA, we DO require a "Government Issued Photo ID", but it's very lenient. For example, if you have a MARTA card (mass transit card for Atlanta) and it has your photo on it, it's considered sufficient. Yes, the absentee ballots can still be a problem. There have been some cases where a thousand absentee votes originated from one address. Hmmm... seems a little suspicious to me.
I'm a poll worker. I've never had anyone object to being asked to produce an ID. If they forget it, they have always gone home and brought it back in. They didn't HAVE to, they COULD have voted "Provisional". Which means I could allow them to fill in a paper ballot, which would be counted along with the absentee ballots. They WOULD have to go by the Courthouse and show proper ID to get their provisional ballot validated. They have 2 days after election day to do that.
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Post by Deleted on Sept 29, 2012 23:52:20 GMT -5
Voting is not a privledge. It is a right and a responsibility. The constitution outlines who can be excluded from voting... basically those under the age of 18... you can't exclude for race or gender and you can't charge a fee... its pretty clear...
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Tennesseer
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Post by Tennesseer on Sept 30, 2012 11:42:37 GMT -5
How does a MARTA card prove you are of age, an American citizen and not a convicted felon who has lost the right to vote?
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2kids10horses
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Post by 2kids10horses on Sept 30, 2012 18:16:59 GMT -5
Tennesseer...
Here in GA, you still have to REGISTER to vote. They check your citizenship at that time.
When you go to vote, the ID is proof that you are the one who is registered. You cannot just show up at the polls on Election Day and vote without being registered.
Oped,
Can you cite the Article in the Constitution where it says there is a Right to vote?
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Tennesseer
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Post by Tennesseer on Sept 30, 2012 18:53:27 GMT -5
Tennesseer... Here in GA, you still have to REGISTER to vote. They check your citizenship at that time. When you go to vote, the ID is proof that you are the one who is registered. You cannot just show up at the polls on Election Day and vote without being registered. Oped, Can you cite the Article in the Constitution where it says there is a Right to vote? I understand you have to register (I won't capitalize register) to vote. But anyone can get a photo MARTA card, including foreign nationals, yes? I just don't understand how the MARTA card is sufficient. Even though our state residents are registered to vote, here in Tennessee, photo library cards were deemed insufficient voter IDs. What's the difference between the two? Of course we are two different states.
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Deleted
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Post by Deleted on Sept 30, 2012 19:03:39 GMT -5
The constitution does not GIVE rights. We are endowed by our creator with unalienable rights. The constitution tells under what conditions rights may be abridged by our government contract.
The 14th ammendment specifically mentions the right to vote. The 15th says you may not deny rights based on race. The 19th gender. The 24th states that The right of citizens of the United States to vote in any primary or other election for President or Vice President, for electors for President or Vice President, or for Senator or Representative in Congress, shall not be denied or abridged by the United States or any State by reason of failure to pay any poll tax or other tax. the 26th say The right of citizens of the United States, who are eighteen years of age or older, to vote shall not be denied or abridged by the United States or by any State on account of age.
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Deleted
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Post by Deleted on Sept 30, 2012 19:16:53 GMT -5
Proof of citizenship and eligibility to vote should be needed to register to vote. But if you are in the book of eligible registered voters, the only thing you should have to show a poll worker is proof that you are who you say you are.
Poll workers are retirees and civics buffs who got the day off work. They aren't INS agents. They aren't detectives. Who the hell cares if your driver's license is expired if it's got your name and picture on it?
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2kids10horses
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Post by 2kids10horses on Sept 30, 2012 21:09:02 GMT -5
Tennesseer, When a voter comes in to vote, here in GA, they fill out a form with their name and address, along with a government issued photo id. I then look that person up in our electonic voter's registry. I check their information that's on the "Express poll" (the electronic list) against the info on the form. I then check the id card to see if the name matches the other two documents. If it all checks out, then when i issue the sim card that will activate the voting machine, it marks that voter off the electronic list so they can't vote twice. Now, could someone, John Doe, go to Marta, and get an id made of themselves and have it say they're Sam Smith? I don't know. And then, they could find the real Sam's address and birth date, and come in to vote, and fill out the form, hand me the fake ID, and I'd find the record and approve it. We're basing the system on the fact that Marta is a government agency and they're only supposed to issue ID cards based upon some valid basis. Of course, the preferred photo ID is a Driver's license. There's a bar code we can scan, and it will automaticly find them if they're registered to vote. About the "Right to Vote". It is a popular misconception that the Consitution guarantees the right to vote. www.answers.com/topic/right-to-vote-1
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