The reason police are being militarized

[happyhoix]

Cretinous I work in an industry. There are new rules that went into effect right after 9-11 that require all industries with a 'chemical of interest' to develop security plans for their sites. The rules were written so broadly that even small companies like hardware stores or gas stations have enough 'chemicals of interest' that DHS considers them possible targets.

The documents are enormous, far more detailed and lengthy than any other federal regulation, and I've worked with a lot of different federal departments. The extent of the planning required indicates that DHS wants us to be prepared for the absolutely worst case scenario. For instance, they want you to evaluate your facility and determine if there is a roof top or cliff nearby where someone could set up rockets they could launch at you. And look at any pond or creek adjacent to your property to see if someone might float an assault force across it. I don't know how likely it might be that hostile forces might try to blow up the nuclear facility near us, but DHS surely wants to make sure they won't be successful if they try.

Knowing their mindset, it does not surprise me that DHS is stockpiling huge quantities of ammunition. Where we differ is you assume DHS is hoarding weapons and ammunition in order to turn them on us and put a dictator in power. I assume DHS is run by paranoid military types who anticipate some kind of coordinated armed terrorist attack where handfuls of suicide fighers start launching rockets at our nuclear plants, chemical tanks and gasoline tank farms.

Which of us is correct? I guess we'll find out. My guess is most of those ammunition and weapons will sit moldering in government stockpiles for the next 50 - 100 years, much like the old cold war bomb shelter supplies have. I really don't think, given our country's heavy emphasis on freedom, that a dictator would be able to mount a coup and take over the country. Not unless we have some major disaster first - that giant sleeping volcano out west finally erupts, or a meteriod hits the earth and destroys half of it, or we have a deadly pandemic that destroys a big chunk of our population. But Colin Powell riding into Washington in a tank and declaring he's in charge while DHS snipers fan out over the country to kill anyone who disagrees? Nope.

[happyhoix]

Cretinous it goes back to Occam's Razor, which goes like this - if you're sitting in New York City and you hear hoofbeats outside, is it more likely you will look out the window and see a horse or a zebra?

The simplist answer is usually the right one.

In this case, is DHS aquiring weapons and ammo because there is a government plot to take over our government, eliminate our liberties and start shooting our citizens, or is DHS aquiring weapons and ammo because the purpose of their existance is to protect us from terrorists attacks?

I think the terrorist attacks is the simplist answer, but then I have insider information. I know DHS is spending money hand over fist, and congress is scared not to give them eveything they want. I know the DHS is run by people who think worst case scenario and plan accordingly. And I also know that government agencies are not capable of the type of collusion that would be necessary to have all the local, state and federal armed forces work together - in fact, put five different people from five different government agencies into one room for an hour and a fist fight is guaranteed to break out.

[The Walk of the Penguin Mich]

www.nbcdfw.com/news/local/Feds-Texas-Rangers-Injure-Drug-Runners-in-Border-Skirmish-123557529.html

Incidents like this do not help and some of the violence in Mexico coming over the border in S. TX.

[midjd]

And I also know that government agencies are not capable of the type of collusion that would be necessary to have all the local, state and federal armed forces work together - in fact, put five different people from five different government agencies into one room for an hour and a fist fight is guaranteed to break out.

Very true.

[happyhoix]

Well I have to say that I understand why SWAT teams kill dogs. Dogs will always defend their owners, even if their owners are homicidal maniacs with corpses buried under the floorboards. And not to stereotype, but some types of criminals (like drug criminals) tend to have very fierce dogs. Like pit bulls and rottis, not tea cup poodles.

I actually agree with you about Americans giving up liberty in the name of anti-terrorism. I think this everytime I have to stand in a security line at the airport. I think where we disagree is that I think it's an unfortunate side effect of a very zealous DHS department that may be way too big and may be spending way too much money but ultimately has the interests of Americans at heart. I understand you think they may suddenly turn on us and become tyrants, we'll just have to disagree on that.

[Driftr]

Sept 20, 2012 21:20:50 GMT -5 @bloomscuzzer said:

Sept 20, 2012 14:05:29 GMT -5 happyhoix said:

Well I have to say that I understand why SWAT teams kill dogs. Dogs will always defend their owners, even if their owners are homicidal maniacs with corpses buried under the floorboards. And not to stereotype, but some types of criminals (like drug criminals) tend to have very fierce dogs. Like pit bulls and rottis, not tea cup poodles.

I actually agree with you about Americans giving up liberty in the name of anti-terrorism. I think this everytime I have to stand in a security line at the airport. I think where we disagree is that I think it's an unfortunate side effect of a very zealous DHS department that may be way too big and may be spending way too much money but ultimately has the interests of Americans at heart. I understand you think they
may suddenly turn on us and become tyrants, we'll just have to disagree on that.

SWAT teams often kill dogs wen they go to the wrong house. They are not killer Killer, the pit bull, but Foofoo the Labrador.

I don't think the police will suddenly turn and become tyrants. I worry they will gradually turn and become tyrants. And by then it will be much harder to get a police force that"serves and protects" sited of sees us the way a military sees opposition. A military outlook should be different from a police outlook.

It's not just SWAT. And it's happening more often than I thought.

www.wsiltv.com/news/local/Eldorado-Man-Accuses-Police-of-Killing-Dog-170392616.html
www.pe.com/local-news/riverside-county/riverside/riverside-headlines-index/20120824-riverside-family-upset-that-police-killed-their-dog.ece
www.huffingtonpost.com/2012/04/17/justice-for-cisco-police-officer-killed-dog-texas_n_1432682.html

[ejd86]

Sept 5, 2012 18:19:31 GMT -5 susanb said:

DH's grandfather is a WWII veteran. He actually stormed the beaches of Normandy on D Day. He saw a lot of death. Then, he lived through cold war.

He had a lot of reasons to be pessimistic about his future and about the future of the nation, even the world. Instead of being paralyzed by pessimism, he was/is one of the most generative and optimistic people you could ever meet.

At the end of the month, we will go and celebrate his 90th birthday. He still lives by himself and takes care of thing like yard work at his rental properties. He runs and lifts weights 3 days a week. There aren't many men alive today who were there on D-day. I have little doubt that his unwavering optimism is what has kept him alive and active.

awesome.

[mrsdutt]

Sept 5, 2012 18:53:40 GMT -5 ken a.k.a OMK said:

Sept 5, 2012 18:07:53 GMT -5 @bloomscuzzer said:

The federal govt is making all kinds of military equipment available to local police forces. Some cities are getting armored personnel carriers. Some are getting aircraft for free or cheap. The federal govt supplies tons of fully automatic rifles to police stations.

Is there any rational reason for this other then the federal govt is expecting some trouble some time in the future? Why else would the federal govt spend all that money just to give it to local police?

They are preparing for martial law. Maybe you should move to a safer country.

tim may

[mrsdutt]

You'd be surprised what police officers think. They take an oath to defend the constitution, and nothing else, including current groups who think they will take us over.