henryclay
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Post by henryclay on Feb 7, 2011 20:26:20 GMT -5
YAWN............... Yeah, I see you have "your' swift boat sites. Most of which are based on "reports" and high muckity muck whitewash. MINE are the testimonies of the snuffies on the scene.
I'll stay with mine, thanks.
P.S. Wasn't it Ray Stevens who wrote the song about Kerry and his getting shot at on Christmas Eve in Cambodia? Didn't it go on and on about how war was hell, even to a Superhero like John Kerry, who even dreamed of winning the war all by himself in Cambodia? Didn't it say something about how Kerry must have dreamed it all because so much of his "war" turned out to just be his fanciful embellishments on things he had read in a comic book somewhere?
Have at it desi. I've made my points. Combat awards are sometimes overlooked because of lack of anybody to substantiate them, and other awards are made because of unbridled narcissism by pukes like John Kerry who find a way to game the system and tromp all over the real warriors.
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deziloooooo
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Post by deziloooooo on Feb 7, 2011 21:45:35 GMT -5
"Combat awards are sometimes overlooked because of lack of anybody to substantiate them, -------------------------------------------------- Think I brought that out by the Col's statement..and the 2/7 , which didn't make the same news but was as bloody , trust me on that one.. The rest?
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henryclay
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Post by henryclay on Feb 14, 2011 1:56:22 GMT -5
Here is an example of how combat awards can, and do, get lost or overlooked. "......During Operation Hastings, he said, every day was a fight and commanders were busy accounting for casualties and conducting operations......" Last Friday the Navy Cross was awarded for extreme heroism to a Viet Nam veteran 45 years late. Wounded, with several weapons disabled by mortars, and he and his company pinned down by enemy fire, 21 year old Lance Corporal Ned Seath was able to take parts from two useless M-60 machine guns and put them together into one that worked. As the attacking enemy closed on his position the dead among them piled up and obstructed his vision so he exposed himself by standing up in order to place his machine gun fire on the attacking enemy. At the ceremony Friday Seath received a second award that had been approved but also had never been delivered. He received the Bronze Star with “V” device for his actions the day before when he saved a wounded Marine. www.marinecorpstimes.com/news/2011/02/marine-navy-cross-presented-to-vietnam-era-marine-021111w/
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deziloooooo
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Post by deziloooooo on Feb 14, 2011 2:32:10 GMT -5
Here is an example of how combat awards can, and do, get lost or overlooked. "......During Operation Hastings, he said, every day was a fight and commanders were busy accounting for casualties and conducting operations......" Last Friday the Navy Cross was awarded for extreme heroism to a Viet Nam veteran 45 years late. Wounded, with several weapons disabled by mortars, and he and his company pinned down by enemy fire, 21 year old Lance Corporal Ned Seath was able to take parts from two useless M-60 machine guns and put them together into one that worked. As the attacking enemy closed on his position the dead among them piled up and obstructed his vision so he exposed himself by standing up in order to place his machine gun fire on the attacking enemy. At the ceremony Friday Seath received a second award that had been approved but also had never been delivered. He received the Bronze Star with “V” device for his actions the day before when he saved a wounded Marine. www.marinecorpstimes.com/news/2011/02/marine-navy-cross-presented-to-vietnam-era-marine-021111w/
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henryclay
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Post by henryclay on Feb 14, 2011 20:33:20 GMT -5
More on how things can be overlooked in combat. This is a letter, dated yesterday, from Retired Marine Major General David Richwine, who was a butter bar Second Lieutenant when the action above occured. These are his thoughts about how things were back then. In reading the letter one will notice that no mentin is made of himself. Rather it is typical of a true leader. He speaks only of the men who bore the brunt of the action. "........The write-up is not correct in describing the operational situation. We did not assault an enemy platoon, but--on 16 July 1966--defended ourselves during a roughly battalion-sized night attack on our hastily configured defensive perimeter. Importantly, though, the description of Ned Seath's performance is accurate. Re [Operation] Hastings: we were pretty "busy"! We "newbies" had nothing to judge it by/compare it to at the time. . .so we just kept our noses to the grindstone and knew we'd win. On the 17th we were moving East to relocate and regroup after leadership concluded we'd landed in a shit sandwich (very close to the [NVA enemy] 324B Division HQ in the vicinity of Dong Ha mountain). Following a mid-morning mortar barrage, the NVA came up two draws and over a small ridgeline from the west in big numbers blowing bugles and waving guidons; we knew the fight was on. One key element in our success and survival was the arrival of Marine Air (Skyhawks and Phantoms) flying so low you could almost scrape their bellies as they passed overhead. Most of the credit for garnering the appropriate recognition goes to others including: Bill Hutton (once my radioman in 2/K/3/4; as he says, I "fired" him and made him a squad leader; he was on Seath's flank during the action and was awarded a Silver Star for his valor that night) -- Bill made the time and undertook the effort to gather the witness statements and assemble the basic award package; retired Colonel of Marines and MOH awardee, Bob Modrezjewski, our CO during the operation who reviewed the package and sketched out the first citation; retired Marine Jim Tuohy, now with the Marine Corps League who kept the pressure on after the award recommendation had been rejected because, according to the HQMC awards board, "it was not submitted within 3 years of the action" (this despite the witness statements and chain of command endorsement). One last piece on Hastings regarding why it took so long to recognize such a significant action. Here are some numbers with which to help explain the "friction" we encountered in the "fog" of war. Company T/O strength in those days was about 220. My reinforced platoon T/O was around 60. By the 17th, my reinforced platoon numbered 22 (including machine guns, corpsman and me. ..didn't have any 60 mortars as we couldn't use them under triple canopy!). After the large NVA assault on the 17th we were able to fit the entire company into the belly of one C-130 for the trip from Dong Ha to Phu Bai which had been our base of operations. I recall the number of "effectives" at approx 83, at least that's the figure that sticks in my mind; hope it's close to factual! Gathering statements of "above and beyond" performance depended on having others around to write them. Friction factors: Many dead Marines to account for and write letters to family for; many wounded to track and care for; many award recommendations to prepare; many new accessions to place and assimilate; change of battalion commander (Masterpool replaced Vale); change of company commanders (Capt 'Ski went to the Bn "3", 2/Lt Richwine was afforded the opportunity to command company K for a couple of weeks before the replacement draft of Captains arrived--including JJ Carroll and Roger Ryman, Ned Leroy). All that occurred during August before launching on Prairie in September -- Mutter Ridge, see www.life.com/image/53368656/in-gallery/42102/lifes-best-vietnam-photos#index/2 for a picture taken on hill 400 of that action. Seath's heroics were not the only ones during Hastings, obviously. I recall LCpl Kelly in a foxhole on the western perimeter (scene of a heavy assault) who lost his foxhole buddy to wounds and whose M-14 was rendered a club by a bullet strike to the flash suppressor. I delivered him a passel of grenades as a field expedient "enemy repellent" during the fighting, and he delivered with aplomb.. . .another Bronze Star. So when we were counting noses to ensure all superior performances were recognized and we came to the name Seath, we had the Bronze Star write-up from the 15th, but nothing for the 16th. And that's how it was. We did not know what we had missed. After not having seen each other for 38 years, Hutton asked Seath in 2003/4 whether he had been recognized for his actions on the 16th. When Seath said "no", Hutton took action just a surely as they had on Hastings. . .and the rest is history. From my perspective, I had the privilege of leading solid young Americans who had become good U.S. Marines and who did great things when confronted with circumstances that might have wilted lesser men. I remain in awe of their performance and I walk in their shadows. Semper Fidelis......."
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handyman2
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Post by handyman2 on Feb 15, 2011 0:53:52 GMT -5
One has to remember that there were off the books operations. Was the incursion into Cambodia by Kerry's boat and crew one of those? I do not know. But there were trips into the area to pick up recon troops. The off the books allows the US plausible deniability since we had claimed it never happened so no public report. Does not mean that there was not some hidden away in a secret report. Do I think medals are at times to political? Yes, I believe they should be limited to the Medal of honor, Purple heart and Extreme bravery under fire. The real problam is getting site proof in battle. They may not have made it The solder and his troops. Sad to say. The new camera's on the helment may help.
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deziloooooo
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Post by deziloooooo on Feb 23, 2011 22:49:17 GMT -5
One has to remember that there were off the books operations. Was the incursion into Cambodia by Kerry's boat and crew one of those? I do not know. But there were trips into the area to pick up recon troops. The off the books allows the US plausible deniability since we had claimed it never happened so no public report. Does not mean that there was not some hidden away in a secret report. Do I think medals are at times to political? Yes, I believe they should be limited to the Medal of honor, Purple heart and Extreme bravery under fire. The real problam is getting site proof in battle. They may not have made it The solder and his troops. Sad to say. The new camera's on the helment may help. The only medal, actually a piece of cloth dyed purple..was the purple heart for a very long time.
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