Opti
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Post by Opti on Jun 8, 2012 9:56:05 GMT -5
Found this rant on one of the NJ Craigslists. I thought I'd share. ;D
EMPLOYERS:
WOULD YOU WORK FOR $8 AN HOUR?? PLEASE DON'T ASK ME TO DO YOUR BOOKEEPING (ACOUNTS PAYABLE AND RECEIVABLES), ANSWER THE PHONES, BE THE RECEPTIONIST, DEAL WITH YOUR CUSTOMERS, KNOW WORD AND EXCEL, TYPE UP CORRESPONDENCE, MAKE AND READ BLUEPRINTS, MANAGE THE OFFICE AND SUPPLIES, AND ABOVE ALL RUN COMPANY ERRANDS WITH MY CAR AND MY GAS.
AND DON'T BRING YOUR CHILDREN FOR ME TO TAKE CARE OF EITHER.
I FORGOT TO MENTION - YOU DON'T EVEN OFFER ME MEDICAL BENEFITS ANYMORE, NEVERMIND THAT YOU HAVE TOP OF THE LINE MEDICAL. I'M SUPPOSED TO DO WITHOUT. WHY??
THIS IS LIKE THE CASTE SYSTEM, ALL OVER AGAIN - THOSE THAT HAVE, AND THEN THERE'S EVERYBODY ELSE!
I CANNOT AFFORD TO WORK IN AN OFFICE ANYMORE, I'LL FLIP BURGERS AT BURGER KING FOR $8 AN HOUR BEFORE I'LL DO YOUR BOOKS!
So what do you all think. Is there lots of anger and low pay in your area? I know Pink is talking about her young adults being paid $8/hr. but I didn't read about the cost of living. Most of Central and North NJ are HCOL. $8/hr. for a single person means you need to live off someone or go through the Section 8 process for housing(or share housing which is easier if you are young or have a significant other IMHO).
(BTW, if anyone knows about applying for section 8 especially in NJ please PM me or post here. Thanks!)
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chen35
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Post by chen35 on Jun 8, 2012 9:59:53 GMT -5
I work for a large company, so maybe I'm biased. I live in a much lower cost of living area than NJ, and I would think a job like the rant described would pay at least $15 an hour, with benefits. That's what we pay our admin. Plus she doesn't run errands with her own gas or babysit...
Like I said, smaller companies would probably be different...
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milee
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Post by milee on Jun 8, 2012 10:08:14 GMT -5
I think a big part of this is supply and demand. Right now, there's a larger supply of workers than there is demand for workers. If you don't want to take a job like that for $8 an hour and you have other options, then don't take it. If enough potential employees make that choice to decline then the employer won't get any employees and will raise the wages offered or go without.
At this point in life, I wouldn't take a job like that at $8 a hour because I have other options. There were many years in my life that I would have been grateful to have that type of job at $8 an hour. It's all about perspective. Supply and demand. Not worth being angry over. Figure out the system and make it work for you.
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milee
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Post by milee on Jun 8, 2012 10:09:25 GMT -5
Added: At this point in life, I wouldn't offer that low a salary to an employee because around here that wouldn't attract the type of employee I'd want. At other times in my business' life, I might have offered that type of salary with the understanding that as the company grew and propered, so would the employee.
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sheilaincali
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Post by sheilaincali on Jun 8, 2012 10:15:13 GMT -5
milee is right. It is all about supply and demand. Companies are eventually going to get someone who's UE has run out and is desperate to do that job for $8/hour. The company is going to be thinking "woo hoo, reduced our overhead". I was out of work for all of 2009. I have years and years of experience doing the jobs that the CL lady described, plus a bachelor's degree and I couldn't even get an interview for a job like that back in the day.
We start our seasonal, unskilled laborers out at $12/hr.
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midjd
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Post by midjd on Jun 8, 2012 10:20:50 GMT -5
Around here, it seems the issue is not so much low pay, but low hours.
E.g. $8/hr is an OK living around here (very LCOLA), if you can get 40 hours a week. But most of the jobs paying $8/hr are also only giving out 24-30 hours a week... which takes it from "decent living wage" to "can only afford to rent a room and walk to work."
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movingforward
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Post by movingforward on Jun 8, 2012 10:25:03 GMT -5
I work for a small company in a MCOL area and we pay our front desk person $10 - $12 an hour depending on experience. We have been through 4 front desk people in the past year. It is a hard position to keep filled. Two moved on to higher paying jobs and one moved out of state because her husband found a better job and then we had one who was only here for a month and probably only worked 8-9 days within that month. I bet out of those 8-9 days she didn't even work a full day. She had some excuse to either not be here or to need to leave early from the very first day she was here. We finally just told her not to come back. We have had a terrible time finding someone to stay.
I think if we bumped the pay up to $15 we might be able to find better candidates but who knows...
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Opti
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Post by Opti on Jun 8, 2012 10:29:16 GMT -5
I think its somewhat supply and demand but it is also greed on the part of some employers. They see ads asking for degrees and lots of experience in the $8-$12/hr. range and they think why should I offer more so many of them don't. I remember one receptionist job on craiglist NJ where they wanted to pay just $8/hr. and were giving preference to someone who brought in baked goods. It seemed wacky. I forget the company but I remember thinking the employer or supervisor probably can easily afford baked goods but they want to pay a live at home with parents wage and get free snacks too. If they had doubled the wages I might have considered for a short term thing.
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973beachbum
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Post by 973beachbum on Jun 8, 2012 10:30:51 GMT -5
milee is right. It is all about supply and demand. Companies are eventually going to get someone who's UE has run out and is desperate to do that job for $8/hour. The company is going to be thinking "woo hoo, reduced our overhead". I was out of work for all of 2009. I have years and years of experience doing the jobs that the CL lady described, plus a bachelor's degree and I couldn't even get an interview for a job like that back in the day. We start our seasonal, unskilled laborers out at $12/hr. Our area has been very badly hurt in the past few years. I know lots of people who have degrees and did big things now interviewing for jobs like in the OP and at about the same wages. Unless the person is the business owner or works for the town or school district around here benefits are like a unicorn. People keep mentioning it but I still don't believe it. Things seem to be getting a tiny bit better lately. (I am keeping my fingers and toes crossed!) The good part for the business to them is that they get a super high quality employee for a super cheap price. The bad side is that that employee feels used and abused. This is a small town type of area. Anyone who thinks that EVERYONE in the county doens't know how crappy you are to your employees is delusional! I do absolutely pick the places I shop/spend money at based on how they treat their employees. Then when they complain that they can't understand why people leave all the time as soon as another job comes up I giggle my head off.
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973beachbum
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Post by 973beachbum on Jun 8, 2012 10:35:56 GMT -5
I think its somewhat supply and demand but it is also greed on the part of some employers. They see ads asking for degrees and lots of experience in the $8-$12/hr. range and they think why should I offer more so many of them don't. I remember one receptionist job on craiglist NJ where they wanted to pay just $8/hr. and were giving preference to someone who brought in baked goods. It seemed wacky. I forget the company but I remember thinking the employer or supervisor probably can easily afford baked goods but they want to pay a live at home with parents wage and get free snacks too. If they had doubled the wages I might have considered for a short term thing. The ads for engineers lately has been like a crazy person laundry list instead of a want ad. One we are still not sure if they wanted 5 people to apply as a team or one person with 4 other personalites. The list of qualifications was crazy! They wanted a Civil engineer with 15 years exp, plus a computer programmer, plus 10 years doing scientific experiments and some other things I didn't even know what they were The icing on the cake was the prefferred degree was a PHD.
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Opti
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Post by Opti on Jun 8, 2012 10:39:55 GMT -5
Almost40 I live in a HCOL area and my per diem job is receptionist. In just over a year of working there only the FT receptionist is the same. We've gone through two sets of per diem receptionists that work the 4-8PM shifts and some weekend hours. We are on our third set of two. The woman that got hired with me managed to get a slightly better position FT with the company but maybe instead of $10/hr. its $12? (She worked the 4-8PM shifts so she had more exposure to the day shift job creators than I did.) ((Probably confusing above. My boss likes a FT to cover the day hours and split the 4-8PM evening shifts between two people who also cover most of the Sat and Sun hours. I get some Sundays and requests for coverage from the three of them.)
They've been having promos to get CNAs but at $10/hr. for the day shift not much is happening. There are some shift differentials but one of our good day shift CNAs quit just recently. Lots of call outs at that level. I can see why RNs might work a double shift because of call outs but I'm amazed when CNAs do it. Our company hates OT.
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Opti
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Post by Opti on Jun 8, 2012 10:46:59 GMT -5
I think its somewhat supply and demand but it is also greed on the part of some employers. They see ads asking for degrees and lots of experience in the $8-$12/hr. range and they think why should I offer more so many of them don't. I remember one receptionist job on craiglist NJ where they wanted to pay just $8/hr. and were giving preference to someone who brought in baked goods. It seemed wacky. I forget the company but I remember thinking the employer or supervisor probably can easily afford baked goods but they want to pay a live at home with parents wage and get free snacks too. If they had doubled the wages I might have considered for a short term thing. The ads for engineers lately has been like a crazy person laundry list instead of a want ad. One we are still not sure if they wanted 5 people to apply as a team or one person with 4 other personalites. The list of qualifications was crazy! They wanted a Civil engineer with 15 years exp, plus a computer programmer, plus 10 years doing scientific experiments and some other things I didn't even know what they were The icing on the cake was the prefferred degree was a PHD. Not surprised Beach. During downturns like this it seems to be mid-size companies who are used to having a Jack of many trades. I also think they try to combine two or more positions to save money as well. Many admin jobs at this time are what I call bilingual. They want you to be proficient in UNIX and Windows administration. Usually you should be able to rack equipment and do the networking and security piece. Java and other programming languages find their way into the laundry list as well. Since I love working for big companies with top talent my expertise is more deep than broad. I know something in many of these areas but not enough that I feel comfortable applying. I have racked equipment changed boards, done minor networking, but it probably isn't on their equipment of the moment as well. I agree with the PhD . WTE?!
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movingforward
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Post by movingforward on Jun 8, 2012 10:57:20 GMT -5
"Almost40 I live in a HCOL area and my per diem job is receptionist. In just over a year of working there only the FT receptionist is the same. We've gone through two sets of per diem receptionists that work the 4-8PM shifts and some weekend hours. We are on our third set of two. The woman that got hired with me managed to get a slightly better position FT with the company but maybe instead of $10/hr. its $12?"
My supervisor is thinking about making our front desk position only 30 hrs a week because she doesn't think they have enough to do full-time and basically the company doesn't want to pay benefits for that job. I think pool of candidates is going to get even smaller if she makes it a part-time position with no benefits but she seems to think there is some SAHP sitting around somewhere who would like to have a part-time job. She says there has got to be someone out there who has kids and is on their spouse's insurance and wants to work part-time. Maybe there is... I don't know, but I think most people want a full-time job with benefits. They might take a part-time job right now to get by but as soon as something better comes along they will leave. I have mentioned we might want to bump the pay a bit but the company doesn't want to hear that at all. I guess that is just the nature of business but for me personally I would rather pay a capable person a little more and give them some responsibility so they will stick around for a while as opposed to the revolving door that has been on that position for quite a while.
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milee
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Post by milee on Jun 8, 2012 11:02:21 GMT -5
"I think its somewhat supply and demand but it is also greed on the part of some employers. "
And this is because they disclose all their financial information to you and the last 2 years' business financial results? If not, how would you know? Just as many businesses are hurting right now as employees. For 6 months during the downturn, we were losing a substantial amount of money on the business each month - money I had to fund personally - yet our employees were making the same wages they had prior to the downturn and probably didn't evern realize (other than the sales manager who sees the sales totals and probably had a good guess at our net income) the financial condition of the business.
"They see ads asking for degrees and lots of experience in the $8-$12/hr. range and they think why should I offer more so many of them don't."
That's not being greedy, that's understanding the current market supply/demand and pricing wages accordingly. Wages don't happen in a vacuum, they happen because employers and employees look around at what's available and choose their best option based in part on what the alternatives are. If employers find those wages aren't drawing the applicants they want, they will adjust them. Until then, it's not greed to pay market rates.
"I remember one receptionist job on craiglist NJ where they wanted to pay just $8/hr. and were giving preference to someone who brought in baked goods. It seemed wacky."
It does seem wacky. An ad like that is a clue that either the employer is a huge jerk or has a fantastic sense of humor and it will be a fun place to work there. You'd have to decide for yourself if it were worth figuring out and how you'd make that determination before you took a job there.
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973beachbum
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Post by 973beachbum on Jun 8, 2012 11:02:52 GMT -5
Opt as engineer jobs go it had an avg salary range a year so that part is pretty normal. DH is probably the closest to a jack of all trades type of civil he has ever met. He does regular civil site design, road design, municipal engineering, small bridges plus his degree is environmental engineering so he gets into waste water and storm water mgmt. That is as big a list as I have ever seen with a civil. This ad was so long and with completely different things it was crazy! He read it and all he could say was "WTF?". They had listed everything I listed above that he does plus programming in Fortran and computer basic, C++, machine code or some such and running scientific experiments about the above plus something to do with airport runway designs. Then they got to the PHD. I was counting on my fingers. They want a civil engineer, and electrical engineer, a computer programmer, a computer administrator, a scientist and God knows what else. All for less than people here keep saying is the starting salary for a new grad out of college with an engineering degree.
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rovo
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Post by rovo on Jun 8, 2012 11:08:25 GMT -5
I also live in NJ but in a lower cost of living section of the state. The town pays sub-teachers $75 per day with no benefits. School bus drivers are $10 per hour with some benefits.
My neighbor has a full time skilled handyman working for him at $15 per hour (under the table).
Times are still tough and the wages are reflecting the condition of the economy. Just a fact of life.
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movingforward
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Post by movingforward on Jun 8, 2012 11:15:09 GMT -5
I think I am really lucky because economy wise where I live is in pretty decent shape and is one of the fastest growing cities in the nation. New people are moving here all the time.
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Firebird
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Post by Firebird on Jun 8, 2012 11:45:21 GMT -5
$8/hr, wow... that's what, $12k/year take home? I haven't worked for wages like that since I was a waitress in a small town diner in PA and made around $50/day, maybe $800/month. The differences between that time and every other time in my working life were very, very simple: $800/month was enough to live on rather comfortably in that town (seriously - although I had only catastrophic medical coverage, so that could have eventually become an issue), and there were literally no other jobs available.
At this point in my life, I would only take a job like that if there was some hugely attractive career potential after putting in a year or so at wages like that AND DH was working a job comparable in pay and benefits to what he or I are making now AND we could easily live on his salary without me earning a penny.
Otherwise I'd honestly laugh at $8/hr, especially for an admin position. I make approximately 4-5x that much for an admin position right now. Even adjusting for lower COL somewhere, that's pretty unreasonable.
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Deleted
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Post by Deleted on Jun 9, 2012 10:10:13 GMT -5
I think the best thing this person can do to get back at their boss is to get pregnant. That would fix the situation.
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cronewitch
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Post by cronewitch on Jun 9, 2012 17:12:32 GMT -5
Sometimes you can take the lower paid job and work hard doing whatever is asked of you can end up with a promotion, sometimes you are just used. We hired a temp for a week as receptionist. We paid the temp agency $19 an hour so she must have been making half of that. The receptionist ended up taking two weeks off. The temp was amazing, smart, hardworking and sweet everyone wanted to keep her. We had her back for a few days to help in two other jobs and she did whatever we wanted and learned quickly, asking just the right amount of questions. I had her email me a resume and told my boss and his boss we wanted to keep her, but we don't have openings. My boss said he has her phone number if we need her. His boss said you never know when you will get an opening it is good to have someone in mind. I think if any job she could do opened she would be the only one we would want not even advertise. We probably have to wait 6 months or a year to get her without a huge fee but she won't be forgotten. She would start at about $15 an hour and be to $18 within about 6 months unless we decided to start her much higher than normal since she has a masters in library science.
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TheOtherMe
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Post by TheOtherMe on Jun 9, 2012 19:24:15 GMT -5
Around here, employers except all that and more for $10-$12 an hour. I found out that it isn't worth driving 20 miles each way for 4 hours of work.
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Deleted
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Post by Deleted on Jun 10, 2012 11:48:43 GMT -5
My supervisor is thinking about making our front desk position only 30 hrs a week because she doesn't think they have enough to do full-time and basically the company doesn't want to pay benefits for that job. I think pool of candidates is going to get even smaller if she makes it a part-time position with no benefits but she seems to think there is some SAHP sitting around somewhere who would like to have a part-time job. She says there has got to be someone out there who has kids and is on their spouse's insurance and wants to work part-time. Maybe there is... I don't know, but I think most people want a full-time job with benefits. Maybe she is right. In our office, not one female employee is on the company's benefits, even though they are eligible. They are all married and on their husband's. When you factor that in, we really are a bargain. As far as $8 an hour goes, I am kind of shocked. When I was looking, the bottom seemed to be $12 for what the ad described. At $8 an hour, what is the point of wasting your time training someone. They are going to jump ship as soon as something better comes along.
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TheOtherMe
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Post by TheOtherMe on Jun 10, 2012 18:25:27 GMT -5
I looked online today at the jobs posted in our Sunday paper. I was shocked at the number of jobs paying $8 an hour for administrative assistant, bookkeeper or secretary.
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michelyn8
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Post by michelyn8 on Jun 11, 2012 9:02:06 GMT -5
Maybe she is right. In our office, not one female employee is on the company's benefits, even though they are eligible. They are all married and on their husband's.
When I was 18-22 years old and looking for jobs, I ran into these positions all the time. The smaller companies simply didn't offer benefits because their current admins were married to men who had jobs at one of the local factories with great benefits. Some of the larger companies only offered "major medical" if they offered benefits for admin positions at all. That was in the last 80's/early 90's.
As for the position in the OP, I've seen similar types listed on CL, the online sites, and even in the local papers. The last time I held a position making so little as an admin was the mid-90's and that's because it was a reasonable wage for the position and location of the business. And that job had benefits.
I have over 20 years experience as an admin and now make nearly $50k a year. If necessary, I would be willing to take a $15/hour job but there is no way I'd accept anything lower and I'd still want to have the basic bennies of health insurance, personal and vacation time.
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zibazinski
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Post by zibazinski on Jun 11, 2012 9:14:08 GMT -5
DFs secretary is overpaid by about 20 k. But she needs the job and he is a soft touch. The salary shouldn't be more than 20k.
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milee
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Post by milee on Jun 11, 2012 9:19:56 GMT -5
DFs secretary is overpaid by about 20 k. But she needs the job and he is a soft touch. The salary shouldn't be more than 20k. Or he's made the business decision to pay more than market price because for him, the added hassle of turnover, training, vacancy, etc. are worth the extra $20k. That's an OK decision, just like it's OK to offer a job at low wages and see who takes it, knowing you'll have to hassle with turnover, training, vacancy, etc. As long as both the business owner and potential employees are all consenting adults, there's no right or wrong, just what works for both parties. IMHO, the smartest business owners and employees strike an agreement somewhere in the middle of $8 an hour and $20k a year overpaid. For me, I want to pay enough to attract really good people and minimize turnover. For the employee, I'd think they want to be well paid but not overpaid to the point where it's tempting to get rid of them for a quick buck or ask them to do crazy things.
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Post by Deleted on Jun 11, 2012 9:26:56 GMT -5
DFs secretary is overpaid by about 20 k. But she needs the job and he is a soft touch. The salary shouldn't be more than 20k. IMHO, the smartest business owners and employees strike an agreement somewhere in the middle of $8 an hour and $20k a year overpaid. For me, I want to pay enough to attract really good people and minimize turnover. For the employee, I'd think they want to be well paid but not overpaid to the point where it's tempting to get rid of them for a quick buck or ask them to do crazy things. I completely agree. You get what you pay for. If you want to pay someone crap wages for their area, you better be prepared to: a) have that person do a shitty job b) have high turnover
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zibazinski
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Post by zibazinski on Jun 11, 2012 9:45:44 GMT -5
He inherited her from his father along with a lot of other dead in the water employees.
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milee
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Post by milee on Jun 11, 2012 10:08:29 GMT -5
He inherited her from his father along with a lot of other dead in the water employees. So for him, the discomfort of dealing with this issue and finding a replacement, or of doing something that he feels his father wouldn't have approved of is less palatable than paying an additional $20k a year. That's not uncommon, BTW. And maybe it's not unreasonable, especially if his father built the business and he's the main beneficiary rather than someone who had to build the business himself. My husband is English and finds haggling and personal discussions extremely uncomfortable (he'd probably use the term "unseemly".) He'd much rather just pay full sticker price on a car than discuss price with a salesperson. When we caught one employee smoking pot, he rationalized it that at least it was after work so maybe it wasn't a big deal rather than have the uncomfortable talk of firing the employee. So guess who does the car buying and dealing with employees in our house? Hey, everyone has their preferences and he's respectful and tolerant of my stuff, so I back him on his stuff. It all works. And if I die first, he'll just pay more for employees and cars. On the other hand, he'll save a bunch of money on the stuff that's important to just me, so it will probably even out.
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busymom
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Post by busymom on Jun 11, 2012 10:22:15 GMT -5
Here in the Midwest $8 an hour will probably get you a teen who calls in sick. A lot.
If they are serious about hiring someone who is reliable, they will raise their pay. Otherwise, they'd better get used to an empty desk...
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