8 Bit WWBG
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Post by 8 Bit WWBG on Jun 7, 2012 13:41:39 GMT -5
Friends,
We have decided to remove the Shasta thread. This thread serves as notification that the thread is gone. I want to express concern that two threads in two days were requested closed by the OPs.
I am very torn on this issue personally. Most of us are straight shooters and harsh opinions (however "beneficial" they can be) can seriously hurt the person in the hot seat. At the same time, making the decision to write out those details and press "post" is almost a pre-acceptance that you might hear some stuff you won't like. Neither is inherently right or wrong, but both are part of the experience.
I think the blend of viewpoints, as well as the spread of intensity on the whole, offers any individual a rich set of thought provoking information.
It is my hope that these last two threads have just been two extreme cases that happened to occur in a short span of each other.
Best,
-WWBG Your Money Administrator
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hoops902
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Post by hoops902 on Jun 7, 2012 13:56:32 GMT -5
Aside from the issue of whether I think threads should be deleted because the OP wants them deleted, I do think in the case of deletions this is a good method of letting people know they were removed without having corresponding "where did that thread about XYZ go" threads.
Thanks for letting us know what happened to them.
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quotequeen
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Post by quotequeen on Jun 7, 2012 14:06:19 GMT -5
Oh the irony...
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moon/Laura
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Post by moon/Laura on Jun 7, 2012 14:07:15 GMT -5
in the future, if you wonder what happened to a thread, i would prefer you PM a moderator. public threads about why something disappeared only serves to provide a way to continue flaming or gossiping about the issue.
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milee
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Post by milee on Jun 7, 2012 14:14:30 GMT -5
If you're referring to my post yesterday asking about the stl thread, I honestly think I'd probably do the same thing over again so maybe there's no hope for me.
It wasn't about spreading gossip, it was an honest question (DH is giving me grief about how my eyesight is starting to go now that I'm over 40) since I post on different boards and was starting to wonder if I'd lost my mind or was going blind.
Also, I'm not good with or comfy with the PM thing. It's too personal. I like the boards in part because they aren't that personal; we can be honest about personal things because we don't know each other. Once we get to know each other, I for one won't be comfy discussing money or politics. And yes, I know that's weird, don't care.
And while I'm on a roll, I guess I'm bristling at the implied criticism. Not everybody who offers honest advice is flaming or gossiping. Not everyone who disagrees with removing a post disagrees for nefarious reasons. If you want to moderate in a very protective way, that's your right, but to imply you have to do it because we'll all a bunch of heathen, blood drinking jerks is pretty insulting.
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8 Bit WWBG
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Post by 8 Bit WWBG on Jun 7, 2012 14:19:05 GMT -5
...:::"Also, I'm not good with or comfy with the PM thing. It's too personal.":::...
Well we don't have to become buddy buddy... but when board business is concerned it is very reasonable for you to PM me with a question.
...:::"Oh the irony...":::...
To what are you referring?
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moon/Laura
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Post by moon/Laura on Jun 7, 2012 14:20:03 GMT -5
milee, i know not 'everyone' flames and insults. but those that did in the original thread will likely do it again in a subsequent 'why did it go' thread.
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quotequeen
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Post by quotequeen on Jun 7, 2012 14:28:43 GMT -5
...:::"Oh the irony...":::... To what are you referring? To somebody posting a "goodbye" thread and then sticking around to read it and asking to have it deleted.
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Opti
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Post by Opti on Jun 7, 2012 14:28:56 GMT -5
Friends, We have decided to remove the Shasta thread. This thread serves as notification that the thread is gone. I want to express concern that two threads in two days were requested closed by the OPs. I am very torn on this issue personally. Most of us are straight shooters and harsh opinions (however "beneficial" they can be) can seriously hurt the person in the hot seat. At the same time, making the decision to write out those details and press "post" is almost a pre-acceptance that you might hear some stuff you won't like. Neither is inherently right or wrong, but both are part of the experience. I think the blend of viewpoints, as well as the spread of intensity on the whole, offers any individual a rich set of thought provoking information. It is my hope that these last two threads have just been two extreme cases that happened to occur in a short span of each other. Best, -WWBG Your Money Administrator My personal opinion is that you want support. Too many people questioning you can be too much. Also the Venus transit just occurred. Perhaps its the stars.
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Deleted
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Post by Deleted on Jun 7, 2012 14:29:56 GMT -5
...:::"Oh the irony...":::... To what are you referring? To somebody posting a "goodbye" thread and then sticking around to read it and asking to have it deleted. ;D
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midjd
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Post by midjd on Jun 7, 2012 14:34:23 GMT -5
Really? Is this really going to be turned into another Shasta-bashing thread? Haven't you guys had enough?
WWBG, I appreciate your efforts, as well as those of the other mods.
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Green Eyed Lady
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Post by Green Eyed Lady on Jun 7, 2012 14:43:29 GMT -5
As do I, WWBG. Sometimes, a few words can make or break a person's day. Would that we all hoped to help make it.
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Post by The Walk of the Penguin Mich on Jun 7, 2012 15:07:00 GMT -5
I think that if this trend continues, what is going to happen is that no one will disagree with the OP since they're not going to want to rock the boat.
So how will anyone ever get another side to an issue, if someone is too afraid of posting a dissenting opinion? The OP will get a skewed perception that people agree - when in reality, there are a bunch of dissenters who have written out a post and then hit delete....because the OP may not like what is written.
JMHO
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Apple
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Post by Apple on Jun 7, 2012 15:20:37 GMT -5
Good question, mich--I think we should just post everything as "my FRIEND" wants to do this/did this/whatever, what advice do you have for my FRIEND
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Works4me
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Post by Works4me on Jun 7, 2012 15:27:22 GMT -5
Mich1 - very good point
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Green Eyed Lady
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Post by Green Eyed Lady on Jun 7, 2012 15:30:27 GMT -5
I actually like reading opinions that are the opposite of mine. It's changed my way of thinking on a couple of occasions and I appreciate those who are able to present the other side in a civil manner. Without debate and brainstorming, nothing gets better.
Having said that, there is a world of difference between posting an opposing opinion and being downright and intentionally mean, nasty and hurtful. This isn't one computer talking to another computer. We are real people posting to other real people. You can say that some have thin skin and that may be true, but it tells me more about the offending poster than it does about the person being hurt by it. I honestly believe, and have always believed that some people are here to work out their frustrations with their own miserable lives by dogging on others. Somehow it makes them feel better.
I absolutely KNOW this is true because I've done it in the past. I've been in a bad mood for whatever reason, come to the boards (not this one) and read something that set me off and I've let somebody have it. Not because of what they said but just because I'm in a nasty mood. That's not something I'm proud of, nor should anybody else be.
I can absolutely understand what people are saying about wasting their time posting advice to people who aren't willing to take it or dismiss it as "stupid" or "not possible" or whatever. I can tell after reading someone once or twice whether they are just venting or actually asking for advice. Once you figure that out, don't post in their threads if it bothers you. It's pretty dang simple.
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8 Bit WWBG
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Post by 8 Bit WWBG on Jun 7, 2012 15:37:18 GMT -5
...:::"Having said that, there is a world of difference between posting an opposing opinion and being downright and intentionally mean, nasty and hurtful.":::...
I think it is seldom as black and white as we wish it were. The fantasy is that everyone knows that "you are an idiot for staying with him" is the wrong way, and "you should evaluate what this relationship gives you vs. costs you" is the right way. The reality is that the latter can still be considered "mean" to the person who doesn't want to hear it.
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NomoreDramaQ1015
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Post by NomoreDramaQ1015 on Jun 7, 2012 15:38:32 GMT -5
Once you figure that out, don't post in their threads if it bothers you. It's pretty dang simple. Looney is going to get pretty lonely if we take this advice.
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midjd
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Post by midjd on Jun 7, 2012 15:39:36 GMT -5
I agree, WWBG, but there are some things that would make even the thickest-skinned among us bristle. E.g. being called a child abuser. Most comments fall into a gray area, but some are pretty clearly out-of-line.
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Firebird
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Post by Firebird on Jun 7, 2012 15:40:52 GMT -5
Thanks for letting us know what has happened. I really, really appreciate it.
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Firebird
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Post by Firebird on Jun 7, 2012 15:44:12 GMT -5
milee, i know not 'everyone' flames and insults. but those that did in the original thread will likely do it again in a subsequent 'why did it go' thread.
Except when no one was flaming to begin with... and I understand that those cases are the exception. Most of the deleted threads have had a lot of flamethrowing in them, but some did not. One of the two threads mentioned in this OP had no flames by the OP's own admission. She wanted it banned for other reasons.
Going along with your assertion that a poster can ask for his/her thread to be removed at any time for any reason, this doesn't make sense. And I too resent the implication that anyone who dares question why a thread was removed is attempting to stir the pot some more.
I ask again, do you really want 10 or 20 people PMing six different mods to ask the same question when you can post a quick word of explanation and be done with the matter?
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Green Eyed Lady
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Post by Green Eyed Lady on Jun 7, 2012 15:44:22 GMT -5
...:::"Having said that, there is a world of difference between posting an opposing opinion and being downright and intentionally mean, nasty and hurtful.":::... I think it is seldom as black and white as we wish it were. The fantasy is that everyone knows that "you are an idiot for staying with him" is the wrong way, and "you should evaluate what this relationship gives you vs. costs you" is the right way. The reality is that the latter can still be considered "mean" to the person who doesn't want to hear it. True, WWBG. It's in the eyes of the beholder. However, when one uses words like "stupid" or "leech"or "you are a bad mother" it's a fairly easy call. I, of course, understand that just because it's something someone doesn't want to hear doesn't make it mean.
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Green Eyed Lady
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Post by Green Eyed Lady on Jun 7, 2012 15:45:01 GMT -5
Once you figure that out, don't post in their threads if it bothers you. It's pretty dang simple. Looney is going to get pretty lonely if we take this advice. LOL!! Not completely lonely! She cracks me up!
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Firebird
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Post by Firebird on Jun 7, 2012 15:50:16 GMT -5
I think it is seldom as black and white as we wish it were. The fantasy is that everyone knows that "you are an idiot for staying with him" is the wrong way, and "you should evaluate what this relationship gives you vs. costs you" is the right way. The reality is that the latter can still be considered "mean" to the person who doesn't want to hear it. One example is sugarfly. I personally remember her "how do kids impact marriage" thread as being VERY respectful and dignified. Yes, people disagreed with her but NO ONE was flaming her (IIRC - of course I didn't see the end of the thread so I cannot say for sure) and no one was being rude. People were sharing their experiences and questioning her (lack of) perspective on the whole idea, which is what she ASKED for, and yet her thread was deleted upon her request. Mainly because the feedback was hurting her feelings. That thread was also an outstanding example of something I personally found relevant and worthy of rereading. I wish it were still around, because people talked about how they dealt with certain issues that I'm trying to address in my life as we speak. I can't be the only person who found it helpful. She had no real reason to want that thread deleted other than not liking what was said to her. Yet her vote trumped everyone else's because she was the OP.
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chiver78
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Post by chiver78 on Jun 7, 2012 15:51:16 GMT -5
I agree, WWBG, but there are some things that would make even the thickest-skinned among us bristle. E.g. being called a child abuser. Most comments fall into a gray area, but some are pretty clearly out-of-line. and I'll reiterate what we have all said - please report stuff like this. we can't be everywhere and see every single post. if we see those posts, we'll pull them and leave a warning.....but we can't see everything.
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spartan7886
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Post by spartan7886 on Jun 7, 2012 15:51:22 GMT -5
Moon and other mods, may I suggest that if you are worried about continuing the problems that caused the deletion, just post an OP and lock the thread. It serves the purpose of explaining why the thread is gone while making it clear there will be no more discussion.
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Firebird
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Post by Firebird on Jun 7, 2012 16:00:09 GMT -5
and I'll reiterate what we have all said - please report stuff like this. we can't be everywhere and see every single post. if we see those posts, we'll pull them and leave a warning.....but we can't see everything. And if a post bothers YOU, report it yourself - particularly if it's directed AT you. I've personally only reported two posts in my entire history on YM, and one of them was today because I felt it could be a safety risk if someone didn't. For the most part, I prefer to let things proceed as they will (though I am constantly editing my own posts for clarity). But if we don't report posts that we find problematic, we can't exactly complain when they stoke flame-wars.
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Deleted
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Post by Deleted on Jun 7, 2012 16:03:39 GMT -5
Chiver, I did report the Shasta thread a couple of days ago. I felt if she was gone, then people were basically just gossiping since she wasn't around to read what people were saying. It is one thing to give your "advice" upfront and another behind someone's back.
However, the thread continued for two more days and I never heard anything from the particular moderator I reported it to.
Was I supposed to notify EVERY moderator of my concerns? This is just for future reference. I actually felt dismissed not to even receive a response that said, "I've reviewed it, and I do not share your concerns."
And, no, I won't name the moderator . . . not even in a PM. I prefer to think he/she has been on vacation for the past several days.
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chiver78
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Post by chiver78 on Jun 7, 2012 16:08:17 GMT -5
Chiver, I did report the Shasta thread a couple of days ago. I felt if she was gone, then people were basically just gossiping since she wasn't around to read what people were saying. It is one thing to give your "advice" upfront and another behind someone's back. However, the thread continued for two more days and I never heard anything from the particular moderator I reported it, too. Was I supposed to notify EVERY moderator of my concerns? This is just for future reference. I actually felt dismissed not to even receive a response that said, "I've reviewed it, and I do not share your concerns." And, no, I won't name the moderator . . . not even in a PM. I prefer to think he/she has been on vacation for the past several days. that's not what I meant by reporting it - you should be using the "Report to Mod" button at the bottom of each post. that way, it goes to a page that ALL of us can see....regardless of what board it came from. I wasn't around much this past weekend to see this thread you're talking about, but I have definitely seen threads on this site get pretty ugly. anyway, if you had reported it to me (which I know you didn't) this weekend, you wouldn't have gotten a response either because I wasn't around. and how would you know if I wasn't around, or if I was ignoring your report?
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bean29
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Post by bean29 on Jun 7, 2012 16:09:54 GMT -5
I am glad the Shasta thread was removed, I am not sure if I ever was in the STL thread. When I first saw Shast's post I was concerned about depression/suicide.
I think the comments in Shasta's thread got really mean and ugly in some situations. I know I always try to spell/check and proof read my comments and I occasionally ask myself if what I am posting is coming off wrong. I have deleted my entire comment on more than one occasion without posting.
I know a few people who I think have led a really charmed life. They lucked into the right job or married the right person and have never had a difficult situation to overcome. They can be unbelievably harsh and judgmental and unforgiving. I know when I was a young adult we were talking about a situation and my SIL said "There but for the Grace of God Go I". I find myslef repeating that to myself when I get overly judgemental.
I have also started threads where I felt I had disclosed too much personal info that could out me or family members, and/or that I was sorry I started b/c of the direction they took. I never thought to have a mod delete the thread, but I have gone in and deleted my own comments before to try to salvage the situation.
I think the solutions proposed are a viable answer.
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