dumb school rule

[Loopdilou]

This is the dumbest thing I have ever heard.

[Loopdilou]

No kids, except those with subject matter experts as parents, have access to more resources than other kids. If they want other resources they have this cool thing called a library... with computers!

[spydah]

<<Spydah accuses Befferz of doing outside research to post>>

[thyme4change]

I would flip out if my kid failed because they discussed their class assignment with me. I'm not much of an activist, but I would sue the school board and get that principal fired. We know, for a fact, that parental involvement is a primary element is the success of a child's education. That doesn't magically stop at 14!

[KaraBoo]

That class would be a huge fat 0 for my son then.

He's always asking me to explain things to him that he doesn't understand - from history, to science, to an old saying that doesn't make sense to him (like "that'll happen when pigs fly"). He knows I'll explain the subject to him to the point I'm either out of information or until he "gets" it without him feeling like a dummy for not knowing.

Shame on that school!

[Befferz]

Jan 24, 2011 17:10:46 GMT -5 spydah said:

<<Spydah accuses Befferz of doing outside research to post>>

WTE??? I didn't even post...on this thread!

[Mad Dawg Wiccan]

I'm just amazed this didn't come out of some school in Berkeley CA.

[dancinmama]

Jan 24, 2011 17:05:04 GMT -5 @horatiolegrand said:

Students taking Advanced Placement world history at Virginia's Westfield High School got an odd set of instructions on starting the course. They were told they could only use their textbook, class handouts, and class notes to complete assignments. Anyone caught doing any outside reading, or even talking to their parents about their school work, would get a zero on the assignment and receive an honor code violation referral. Principal Tim Thomas said the rules were designed to promote fairness, since some students might have access to more resources than others.

I would pull my kid out of that class so fast it would make their head spin. IF the student cannot talk to the parents about their assignments, the teacher could be teaching ANYTHING and the parents wouldn't have a clue.

Fairness? Does Principal Tim Thomas know that from day one some people have access to more resources than others? This is THE MOST ridiculous thing that I have ever heard of.

[thyme4change]

One of these bozos thought this made sense.

www.fcps.edu/WestfieldHS/academics/socstudies/socstudies_staff.htm

[imawino]

Ha! I am actually thinking what a relief it would be to not have to help with homework for one class!

Honestly, I don't have a problem with it, if it is for one class and not the entire curriculum. Too often I think parents "help" turns into half doing projects or assignments for them. It would be interesting to see how all the kids fared with no parental assistance. Assuming this is only one class, for one semester (and AP classes are usually opt-in anyway) I don't really see what the outrage is about. Letting your child stand on his own, in his own class, really shouldn't be that upsetting. The playing field is level if everyone follows the rules.

Of course, you know that this rule will in actuality just cause a lot of parents to get morally outraged and decide that their only option is to help their kid more for spite. That'll show 'em!

[wvugurl26]

Man my parents never did any of my work for me. Are high school students in AP classes really getting that much help from their parents?
I think its a bit outrageous to say students can't look at other books or the internet. They should all have access to those resources through the school library. Heaven forbid they come across a viewpoint that differs from the teacher's.

[thyme4change]

Any parent who does their kid's homework for them will ignore this rule anyway. If you can't figure out a way to evaluate your students without disallowing any outside input, ever, from anyone - then you aren't a very good teacher.

[hoops902]

While I don't really agree with the policy, I can easily imagine that it came as kids with intelligent and overzealous parents started "helping" their kids do their AP work to the point that the work was not really a reflection of the student's ability or effort.

Particularly if the majority of the course is writing essays, etc...where a library might not be as much help as a parent with good writing skills. I think most of us were probably much better writers at 40 than we were at 15.

Seems like overkill though obviously.

[steff]

My son has taken many AP classes and never have a heard such ridiculous "rules". I'm 110% behind parents helping their kids with school work, helping them find access & answers to questions & assignments that the parents might not have the level of knowledge to help with. Trust me, my kiddo "outsmarts" me by leaps and bounds. If I can't help him with an assignment, then I help him with where to find the information. We'll find other books and/or info from online. Or even finding him a 'tutor' (usually another adult that can help with the assignment rather than paying a tutor).

I strongly believe that as a parent, I am supposed to be deeply involved in my kiddo's education, what he is studying each day, and what kind of information he is receiving. I've more than once taken on either a teacher, principal and even the district on something that didn't sit right with me or that I felt very strongly about. That's MY JOB as a parent. Not to sit around and not even ask if he has homework, what it's about, what is he studying, but to be involved every single day with his education.

[imawino]

::Any parent who does their kid's homework for them will ignore this rule anyway. If you can't figure out a way to evaluate your students without disallowing any outside input, ever, from anyone - then you aren't a very good teacher.::

Agreed, but I can see how the first step in trying to get some overzealous parents to stop doing their kids work for them is to tell them to stop! And I just don't see the major harm in saying for this one class we all have the same materials, let's see what we each get from them. And we don't know what materials the teacher is going to use...could be a lot of good stuff! Or it might not, and the teacher might suck. But we don't really know that from the OP.

[Malarky]

I hate school with a passion.

Just one more example of the insanity.

Wishing we had a bared teeth, foot stomping are you out of your E'ing mind? emoticon.

DD is insisting on her laptop back so I can't expound upon the many failings of the educational system

[thyme4change]

Particularly if the majority of the course is writing essays, etc

Great - then have them do a writting project in class. Have them handwrite the paper and leave all the materials in the class room. Span several days if you need to. Do it once early in the class and then later in the class. Any projects in between, if they are far superior, you call BS on the kid and family.

[Mad Dawg Wiccan]

Wishing we had a bared teeth, foot stomping are you out of your E'ing mind? emoticon.



How's that?

[wvugurl26]

The students can't read another book on the subject.

This is what really rubs me the wrong way about this. If a kid's interested or has more questions than the coursework answers, they can't go find another book? In a country where frankly our education sucks in many places, we are going to discourage reading? Really? I'm glad I had teachers who encouraged me to keep learning and reading outside of the classroom. I had many teachers throughout junior high and high school who would suggest additional sources for us if we were interested.
And really if you are worried about mommy/daddy writing the papers give the kids essay tests in class. Problem solved.

[Abby Normal]

I think it's one thing to not want parents to help, it's completely something else to say the kids can't do more research on their own. Sad commentary on our education system.

[Sum Dum Gai]

Ah fairness. Probably the dumbest thing to aspire to ever. Some kids are born mentally retarded. Should we make all the other kids act retarded all day so that school is fair? Get friggin real. Life isn't fair. Not a single aspect of it. Trying to keep that reality from affecting school age children is doomed to fail, on top of being a monumentally bad idea.

[hoops902]

Jan 24, 2011 18:56:33 GMT -5 Sum Dum Gai said:

Ah fairness. Probably the dumbest thing to aspire to ever. Some kids are born mentally retarded. Should we make all the other kids act retarded all day so that school is fair? Get friggin real. Life isn't fair. Not a single aspect of it. Trying to keep that reality from affecting school age children is doomed to fail, on top of being a monumentally bad idea.

Personally, I see this idea as less offensive given that it's an AP class. Optional, should be for successful students, I don't see as much of a problem holding them to a higher standard for doing their own work. I think the execution is poor, but presumably no one is making these kids take the class and it's not a graduation requirement. If you can add in that they were informed of this procedure prior to enrolling (which we don't know), then I don't think it's nearly as bad as doing it for a required class that everyone must take.

ETA: The one thing people seem to agree on is the education in this country is getting worse. This particular idea is pretty bad IMO, but at least they're trying something. If you're going to experiment with different things, I think the AP class is the way to go as you're volunteering for the experiment with no requirement to do so.

I'd rather see a bad but safe idea executed in a voluntary class than some administrator sitting around doing nothing waiting to collect retirement. So the model fails, try something new next semester, it succeeds, try it again.

[The J]

Jan 24, 2011 17:14:20 GMT -5 Befferz said:

Jan 24, 2011 17:10:46 GMT -5 spydah said:

<<Spydah accuses Befferz of doing outside research to post>>

WTE??? I didn't even post...on this thread!

I'll defend you! Spydah -- I'm suing your for defamation of character!!

[Sum Dum Gai]

I'd rather see a bad but safe idea executed in a voluntary class than some administrator sitting around doing nothing waiting to collect retirement. So the model fails, try something new next semester, it succeeds, try it again.

This policy has nothing to do with achievement. It's a way to "make things fair" for all the students. I don't know about you, but I don't send my kids to school so that they'll be treated "fairly" at all times. I send them to learn. The administrator in question should be focusing on the education thing and stop worrying about fairness which isn't achievable anyway.

[Befferz]

Jan 24, 2011 19:15:19 GMT -5 The J said:

Jan 24, 2011 17:14:20 GMT -5 Befferz said:

WTE??? I didn't even post...on this thread!

I'll defend you! Spydah -- I'm suing your for defamation of character!!

Awww, my hero!

[Befferz]

And to comment on the topic at hand, this does seem to be a way to make things "fair" for all students, like Dark says. However, AP classes are supposed to be (somewhat) standardized throughout the country, and at least when I took them, there was never any restriction on outside learning. This teacher is basically messing with that program, although I don't know if he's helping or hindering his students when it comes time for the AP test. He is hindering them in life though.

[marjar]

Not the least bit surprised.

[Sum Dum Gai]

Speaking as a parent, I'm about ready to give up on public education. There are some great charter and private schools around. The traditional public schools can wither for all I care. I think it's sad that we as a country are allowing it to happen, but my kids don't have a couple decades for us to fix that ship.

[Mad Dawg Wiccan]

So the model fails, try something new next semester, it succeeds, try it again.


Students have to take and pass a standardized test to get college credit for any AP classes. The real test of this system will come when this crop of kids take the exam. If enough fail it, the system is sure to be scrapped.

[BeenThere...DoneThat...]

...unenforceable...


...and frustrating, too, since taxpayer dollars went into this rule...