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Post by Deleted on Feb 7, 2012 9:24:26 GMT -5
Eastwood claims there was no political intent,that it was more or less a rallying cry for America, much like Reagans ads. Whether true or not, who knows. But it is sort of funny to hear people that supported no limits on company contributions to campaigns because to limit them would be limiting free speech are now "offended" by this ad. I believe him. I honestly did not see this as supporting Obama or any of that. I saw it as a waste of time supporting a failed car company, a failed industry, and a failed city. Detroit is over- if you don't believe me- go visit. It's NEVER coming back. The US auto-industry lost. The company with the best shot is Ford, and I read somewhere that Ford is cooking the books and not doing as well as claimed. A well paid waste of time.
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cme1201
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Post by cme1201 on Feb 7, 2012 9:25:58 GMT -5
Eastwood claims there was no political intent,that it was more or less a rallying cry for America, much like Reagans ads. Whether true or not, who knows. But it is sort of funny to hear people that supported no limits on company contributions to campaigns because to limit them would be limiting free speech are now "offended" by this ad. I believe him. I honestly did not see this as supporting Obama or any of that. I saw it as a waste of time supporting a failed car company, a failed industry, and a failed city. Detroit is over- if you don't believe me- go visit. It's NEVER coming back. The US auto-industry lost. The company with the best shot is Ford, and I read somewhere that Ford is cooking the books and not doing as well as claimed. I heard? That is non-factual just feeling. Can you relay relevant facts please? From those I have talked with, Ford is doing better than its competitors in cash and styling options. (my sources are in the Auto Industry, from dealership owners to corporate officers, no link just what I have heard)
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Post by Deleted on Feb 7, 2012 9:47:35 GMT -5
Eastwood claims there was no political intent,that it was more or less a rallying cry for America, much like Reagans ads. Whether true or not, who knows. But it is sort of funny to hear people that supported no limits on company contributions to campaigns because to limit them would be limiting free speech are now "offended" by this ad. I believe him. I honestly did not see this as supporting Obama or any of that. I saw it as a waste of time supporting a failed car company, a failed industry, and a failed city. Detroit is over- if you don't believe me- go visit. It's NEVER coming back. The US auto-industry lost. The company with the best shot is Ford, and I read somewhere that Ford is cooking the books and not doing as well as claimed. Wow. While I will abstain from typing it, please know that I am thinking a CoC-violating personal attack right now. Quite loudly. (a) Thank you for conceding that Clint Eastwood's motives were pure. He spent a good deal of time in Detroit filming Gran Torino, and has made repeated comments suggesting that he is a genuine booster for the city. (b) While Chrysler has certainly had some struggles, they just sent out their first profit sharing checks in years. That is the very definition of a comeback. (c) A failed industry? Are you fucking kidding me? How did you get to work this morning? Hoverboard? Bicycle? Light rail? I'm pretty sure Americans (not to mention the rest of the world) will continue to support the automotive industry for a couple of generations. (d) A failed city? This is where I violate the CoC. Don't talk shit about Detroit or Detroiters. Detroit is much more than cars. And while we don't need or want your tourism dollars, Paul, I hope the rest of the board will take your suggestion to visit Detroit, because it's pretty great. Edited to correct my rage typing.
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cme1201
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Post by cme1201 on Feb 7, 2012 9:53:42 GMT -5
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AgeOfEnlightenmentSCP
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Post by AgeOfEnlightenmentSCP on Feb 7, 2012 10:20:32 GMT -5
Yup.
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AgeOfEnlightenmentSCP
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Post by AgeOfEnlightenmentSCP on Feb 7, 2012 10:30:15 GMT -5
Thanks for keeping it civil, and focused on the topic. I mean that.
I couldn't agree more. He's a true believer, and he's entitled to that. I think he's misguided- as the OP should indicate. I don't see a revived Detroit. I see more of the same, and I see them coming back to the well 30 years from now like they did 30 years ago unless we abolish TBTF once and for all. I don't read anything into it. I think Clint genuinely wants good things for Detroit, the auto industry, and the country.
This is meaningless. It says nothing about the long term future of the company. The company is nowhere near break-even on the purchase price of the stock we own. And it won't be anytime soon, and I predict it never will be.
I was referring to the American automobile industry. I didn't have to get up and commute to a job today, but if I did- I would have driven the car I've been driving since 1999- the car I've done routine maintenance on- oil, changes, tire rotations, timing belt & systems maintenance, the car that has NEVER broken down on me-- my 1997 Honda Civic EX Coupe.
It's not shit talking if its true. Detroit is a hollowed out wreck of a city. It's as close to total collapse and rotting decay as any major American city has ever been. Just translate that mess to NY or Chicago and tell me it isn't a failure (Chicago is actually well on its way to becoming a Detroit-like stain, but I digress).
And don't hold your breath on 'tourism dollars'. Nobody wants to see that mess. Maybe after the last person leaves we can preserve it and universities can take educational historical tours of Detroit to see what happens when we adopt policies that favor unions, offer trade protection, and generally let liberals have their way with a city.
Deep breaths. Deeeeeep breaths....
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ugonow
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Post by ugonow on Feb 7, 2012 10:56:58 GMT -5
Personally, I'm hoping for a resurgence of the American manufactoring sector. It seems to me politics has made some hope for it's failure.
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gavinsnana
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Post by gavinsnana on Feb 7, 2012 11:04:40 GMT -5
"Eastwood-the former Republican mayor of Carmel, Calif., opposed the bailout, telling the Los Angeles Times in 2010: “We shouldn’t be bailing out the banks and car companies. If a CEO can’t figure out how to make his company profitable, then he shouldn’t be the CEO.” Funny how that work$. I did not see the commercial as a thumbs up to Obama or the bailout, but just the opposite. I saw it as, it is what it is, lets move on., people are out of work, lets pull together despite the administration failures. Clint is in no way a supporter of Obama.. not even close I saw his "its the 2nd 1/2" to mean lets defeat the current administration and get on with it. I guess its how you chose to look at it. I know Obama is trying to take credit, but in Clint's statement release yesterday, he only confirmed what I was thinking
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Post by Deleted on Feb 7, 2012 11:12:01 GMT -5
The American automotive industry is not an independent industry. We have a global car industry. As you pointed out, Fiat owns a big chunk of Chrysler (heck, Daimler still owns a big chunk as far as I know). While I will always be a Detroit girl, I live in Kentucky, where we build Fords and Toyotas and Corvettes. Our neighbors to the north probably built your Honda. There aren't clean lines around the American/foreign car makers like there used to be.
And seriously? Rotting decay? Don't be one of those douche bags who holds up a picture of Central Station, cleverly cropped to hide the line out the door at the barbeque restaurant across the street.
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Post by Savoir Faire-Demogague in NJ on Feb 7, 2012 11:35:45 GMT -5
I couldn't agree more. He's a true believer, and he's entitled to that. I think he's misguided- as the OP should indicate. I don't see a revived Detroit. I see more of the same, and I see them coming back to the well 30 years from now like they did 30 years ago unless we abolish TBTF once and for all. I don't read anything into it. I think Clint genuinely wants good things for Detroit, the auto industry, and the country.Forbes lists the ten most miserable US cities. realestate.msn.com/10-most-miserable-us-cities-of-2012#1Detroit is #2, Flint, Michigan is #3. Rounding out the top ten in position #10 is Warren, Michigan. No. 2: DetroitDetroit has closed schools and laid off police in an effort to avoid a bankruptcy filing this year. Home prices are down 54% over the past three years, the worst decline in the U.S. The median price was $38,000 last year in the Detroit-Livonia-Dearborn metro division. No. 3: Flint, Mich.Flint razed 775 abandoned homes in the year ending October 2011 to try to change the city landscape. Michigan appointed an emergency manager last year to take over Flint's budget and operations. Crime remains a severe problem; the violent-crime rate was the third worst in the U.S. No. 10: Warren, MichThe housing market collapsed in the Warren metro area, which includes Troy and Farmington Hills. The median home price is down 50% over the past three years, the second-biggest drop in the U.S. after Detroit.
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Post by Deleted on Feb 7, 2012 11:45:34 GMT -5
I saw that link as well. I was hoping Paul would bring it up so I could point out the relative positions of various Florida communities (including Palm Beach)
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Post by Deleted on Feb 7, 2012 11:55:27 GMT -5
As an aside, Clint is on record as being a Ron Paul supporter.
As far as Detroit goes, as a city it is currently a little down at the heels, but not out for the count (I wonder how many more cliches I can toss in here). I have relatives in the area and there are some really nice places to live in its vicinity, Grosse Pointe comes to mind.
The domestic auto makers really dropped the ball starting in the mid 70s. Completely incompetent and grossly over inflated management structure. There seemed to be one guy at head office for every guy on the assembly line, absurd. They lost their sense of direction, style and capacity to innovate. I think they are slowly coming back.
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workpublic
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Post by workpublic on Feb 7, 2012 13:20:29 GMT -5
Sadly, there are saboteurs who would actively and gladly contribute to the downfall of the nation, only because they would find it entertaining to pin the blame for that catastrophe upon their opponents. If that isn't evil and perverse, then nothing is.
the saddest part, imho, is that they are republicans and democrats both have emotional idiot followers. And those are the only two we get to choose from.
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usaone
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Post by usaone on Feb 7, 2012 13:38:25 GMT -5
Message deleted by usaone.
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AgeOfEnlightenmentSCP
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Post by AgeOfEnlightenmentSCP on Feb 7, 2012 13:43:15 GMT -5
I believe him. I honestly did not see this as supporting Obama or any of that. I saw it as a waste of time supporting a failed car company, a failed industry, and a failed city. Detroit is over- if you don't believe me- go visit. It's NEVER coming back. The US auto-industry lost. The company with the best shot is Ford, and I read somewhere that Ford is cooking the books and not doing as well as claimed. I heard? That is non-factual just feeling. Can you relay relevant facts please? From those I have talked with, Ford is doing better than its competitors in cash and styling options. (my sources are in the Auto Industry, from dealership owners to corporate officers, no link just what I have heard) www.msnbc.msn.com/id/46161298/ns/business-autos/t/ford-profit-hit-commodity-costs-europe/#.TzF-VlwV0Qo
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usaone
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Post by usaone on Feb 7, 2012 13:43:35 GMT -5
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cme1201
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Post by cme1201 on Feb 7, 2012 13:49:25 GMT -5
You claimed they were cooking the books. Your article talks of commodity and eviromental factors as well as increased competition in out of US area. As far as cooking the books, I take it this is the line you are refering to? Using taxes is now cooking the books?
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AgeOfEnlightenmentSCP
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Post by AgeOfEnlightenmentSCP on Feb 7, 2012 14:14:33 GMT -5
I admit I can't find it- that doesn't mean I didn't read it. I'll dig it up eventually.
EDIT: oddly enough it was a LEFT leaning source trying to undermine Ford's claim that it was doing well inspite of not taking a bailout.
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Driftr
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Post by Driftr on Feb 7, 2012 16:38:10 GMT -5
I admit I can't find it- that doesn't mean I didn't read it. I'll dig it up eventually. EDIT: oddly enough it was a LEFT leaning source trying to undermine Ford's claim that it was doing well inspite of not taking a bailout. You should send a PM to rovo with any real information you find. I feel confident he'd be interested in seeing anything seriously wrong with the books of F but I don't think he reads P&M very often.
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djAdvocate
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Post by djAdvocate on Feb 7, 2012 22:25:12 GMT -5
nothing against Detroit, but i think the US auto industry is going down. in 20 years, i suspect it will be where the textile industry is today. and that is not necessarily a bad thing- but we need to focus on what is next.
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Sum Dum Gai
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Post by Sum Dum Gai on Feb 7, 2012 22:46:53 GMT -5
What if there is no next in 20 years? What if 20 years from now we're still using textiles and driving cars? How many industries and jobs should we send overseas without a fight before we realize we aren't actually creating enough new crap to fill the void?
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djAdvocate
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Post by djAdvocate on Feb 7, 2012 23:09:02 GMT -5
What if there is no next in 20 years? What if 20 years from now we're still using textiles and driving cars? How many industries and jobs should we send overseas without a fight before we realize we aren't actually creating enough new crap to fill the void? i am not saying it is a good thing, DH. i am saying it is inevitable. i could give a long dissertation on WHY that is the case, but i believe it is. so we have two choices: we can either prepare and adapt, or we can wallow in self pity.
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