calling RP isolationist is insane

[formerexpat]

[AgeOfEnlightenmentSCP]

And calling defending the country after the enemy sneaked into our country uninvited, hid out until the opportune time to attack us whereupon they leveled two skyscrapers in the center of our largest city, attacked our military headquarters, destroyed four civilian airplanes and killed nearly 3,000 people "expansionist" is like saying you wouldn't shoot your neighbor if he broke in and started taking out your family members, and you wouldn't chase his ass all the way back to his house guns blazing and burn that bitch down....is crazy.

[AgeOfEnlightenmentSCP]

I'm really just plain sick of stupid Ron Paul slogans and clever videos and campaign obfuscation that bears absolutely NO RESEMBLANCE to reality.

[Don Perignon]

Feb 5, 2012 20:50:24 GMT -5 AgeOfEnlightenmentSCP said:

I'm really just plain sick of stupid Ron Paul slogans and clever videos and campaign obfuscation that bears absolutely NO RESEMBLANCE to reality.

Thank you for the best laugh I had all day.

[formerexpat]

And calling defending the country after the enemy sneaked into our country uninvited,

Which country was that, Paul?

How many of the hijackers were Saudi?

I'm tired of people not acknowledging the impact of blowback [and the CIA's agreement]. It's as if people didn't read the 9/11 commission report. It's as if people haven't even listed to Bin Laden himself state that it's US policies in the ME that caused 9/11.

They don't give a shit that we wear jeans and worship a different god. They want us to leave them the fuck alone.

[AgeOfEnlightenmentSCP]

Feb 5, 2012 21:24:57 GMT -5 formerexpat said:

And calling defending the country after the enemy sneaked into our country uninvited,

Which country was that, Paul?

How many of the hijackers were Saudi?

I'm tired of people not acknowledging the impact of blowback [and the CIA's agreement]. It's as if people didn't read the 9/11 commission report. It's as if people haven't even listed to Bin Laden himself state that it's US policies in the ME that caused 9/11.

They don't give a shit that we wear jeans and worship a different god. They want us to leave them the fuck alone.

Then leave us the fuck alone! Stop attacking us, stop shit talking, stop plotting against us.

The bottom line is they aren't ever going to stop. It has nothing to do with us, it has nothing to do with Israel. They are never going to stop because they are in a holy war- a jihad that will go on until the whole world is under Islamic rule.

[AgeOfEnlightenmentSCP]

For the record- Germany never attacked us, either. Nor, did the Italians.

[AgeOfEnlightenmentSCP]

Feb 5, 2012 21:24:57 GMT -5 formerexpat said:

And calling defending the country after the enemy sneaked into our country uninvited,

Which country was that, Paul?

How many of the hijackers were Saudi?

I'm tired of people not acknowledging the impact of blowback [and the CIA's agreement]. It's as if people didn't read the 9/11 commission report. It's as if people haven't even listed to Bin Laden himself state that it's US policies in the ME that caused 9/11.

They don't give a shit that we wear jeans and worship a different god. They want us to leave them the fuck alone.

And I'm tired of people whose entire worldview is informed by kook conspiracy internet 'documentaries'. Now, I'm gonna vote for RP if it comes down to it- but the thing is, in that unlikely event he's going to experience what Obama is experiencing now.

He will, as Obama did, walk out of his first security briefing a kind of ashen white, and if it's possible-- looking older, solemn...and he will do what he needs to do as President-- and when he does, the Ron Paul zombies will put on sackcloth and heap ashes upon their heads.

He's not going to live up to your expectations. There's no way he can keep all his promises on foreign policy. If he does, you won't like that very much, either.

[djAdvocate]

Feb 5, 2012 17:06:56 GMT -5 @lonewolf said:

EXACTLY

I like to refer to him as a protectionist.

i refer to him as non-interventionist. that is pretty much the opposite of what the last 10 presidents have been.

[djAdvocate]

Feb 5, 2012 21:30:42 GMT -5 AgeOfEnlightenmentSCP said:

For the record- Germany never attacked us, either. Nor, did the Italians.

no, but their ally did, and in the same war. not much diff, there. let's not compare the last 150+ INJUST conflicts with the just one that preceded it, alright?

[formerexpat]

And I'm tired of people whose entire worldview is informed by kook conspiracy internet 'documentaries'.

like this:

www.foxnews.com/story/0,2933,137095,00.html

He said he was first inspired to attack the United States by the 1982 Israeli invasion of Lebanon in which towers and buildings in Beirut were destroyed in the siege of the capital.

"While I was looking at these destroyed towers in Lebanon, it sparked in my mind that the tyrant should be punished with the same and that we should destroy towers in America, so that it tastes what we taste and would be deterred from killing our children and women," he said.

"God knows that it had not occurred to our mind to attack the towers, but after our patience ran out and we saw the injustice and inflexibility of the American-Israeli alliance toward our people in Palestine and Lebanon, this came to my mind," he said.

Or maybe you'd like this:

www.pbs.org/newshour/terrorism/international/fatwa_1996.html
www.pbs.org/newshour/terrorism/international/fatwa_1998.html
www.guardian.co.uk/world/2002/nov/24/theobserver

I guess the the 9/11 Commission Report is an internet documentary too?

And I guess the military members that are 1st, 2nd and 3rd in donations to Ron Paul don't have a clue either.

Sorry Paul, you're wrong on this issue.

[djAdvocate]

Feb 5, 2012 22:00:08 GMT -5 formerexpat said:

And I'm tired of people whose entire worldview is informed by kook conspiracy internet 'documentaries'.

like this:

www.foxnews.com/story/0,2933,137095,00.html

He said he was first inspired to attack the United States by the 1982 Israeli invasion of Lebanon in which towers and buildings in Beirut were destroyed in the siege of the capital.

"While I was looking at these destroyed towers in Lebanon, it sparked in my mind that the tyrant should be punished with the same and that we should destroy towers in America, so that it tastes what we taste and would be deterred from killing our children and women," he said.

"God knows that it had not occurred to our mind to attack the towers, but after our patience ran out and we saw the injustice and inflexibility of the American-Israeli alliance toward our people in Palestine and Lebanon, this came to my mind," he said.

Or maybe you'd like this:

www.pbs.org/newshour/terrorism/international/fatwa_1996.html
www.pbs.org/newshour/terrorism/international/fatwa_1998.html
www.guardian.co.uk/world/2002/nov/24/theobserver

I guess the the 9/11 Commission Report is an internet documentary too?

And I guess the military members that are 1st, 2nd and 3rd in donations to Ron Paul don't have a clue either.

Sorry Paul, you're wrong on this issue.

i just don't understand how any sensible American can be interventionist. it makes no sense to me whatsoever. it is the antithesis of what i consider to be the essence of being a US citizen, to honor and uphold the liberty of others, including the liberty to choose their own wretched leaders, and the liberty to overthrow ones we like.

Ron Paul is right about US foreign policy, and until we replace our current MO with one that is much closer to his, we are a doomed nation (to use lone's phrase).

[handyman2]

You are so right DJ. Meddling only brings grief. The idea that we can bring democracy through force to peoples who don't want it or understand it is insane. We cannot be the policemen or conscious for the whole world. But to many of our leaders seem to think so.

[Don Perignon]

It is risky to be a candid entity in a Macchiavellian world. Intrigue, Deceit and misdirection establish the direction of international relations. Political naivety can be a fatal flaw.

By the way, isn't all "Foreign Aid" ultimately "interventionist"?
Sending food and money for Haitian relief is "intervening", isn't it?

Or is Neccessity the mother of intervention?

[djAdvocate]

Feb 5, 2012 23:14:27 GMT -5 handyman2 said:

You are so right DJ. Meddling only brings grief. The idea that we can bring democracy through force to peoples who don't want it or understand it is insane. We cannot be the policemen or conscious for the whole world. But to many of our leaders seem to think so.

handy- do you think the idea that we CAN do this stems from "exceptionalism"? i have been trying to figure it out for a long long time.

[Mkitty is pro kitty]

The bottom line is they aren't ever going to stop. It has nothing to do with us, it has nothing to do with Israel. They are never going to stop because they are in a holy war- a jihad that will go on until the whole world is under Islamic rule.

The bottom line is neither will people like you.

and when he does, the Ron Paul zombies will put on sackcloth and heap ashes upon their heads.

How about stop with the heaping of strained metaphors, especially quasi-religious ones?

"Bin Laden: Goal is to bankrupt U.S."
November 01, 2004

articles.cnn.com/2004-11-01/world/binladen.tape_1_al-jazeera-qaeda-bin?_s=PM:WORLD

The Arabic-language network Al-Jazeera released a full transcript Monday of the most recent videotape from Osama bin Laden in which the head of al Qaeda said his group's goal is to force America into bankruptcy.

Al-Jazeera aired portions of the videotape Friday but released the full transcript of the entire tape on its Web site Monday.

"We are continuing this policy in bleeding America to the point of bankruptcy. Allah willing, and nothing is too great for Allah," bin Laden said in the transcript.

[reasonfreedom]

Feb 5, 2012 21:30:42 GMT -5 AgeOfEnlightenmentSCP said:

For the record- Germany never attacked us, either. Nor, did the Italians.

? What the heck does that have to do with anything?

[reasonfreedom]

Former CIA bin Laden hunter Michael Scheuer supports Ron Paul on his foreign policy and he was the chief in charge of that CIA group. Seems kind of weird that the people that know most about the al qaeda terrorist situation say that RP is right.

[djAdvocate]

Feb 6, 2012 10:53:03 GMT -5 reasonfreedom said:

Former CIA bin Laden hunter Michael Scheuer supports Ron Paul on his foreign policy and he was the chief in charge of that CIA group. Seems kind of weird that the people that know most about the al qaeda terrorist situation say that RP is right.

curiously, a lot of people in the DOD also support Paul........funny, that......

[Deleted]

As far as the "why people attack" thing goes (& I'm not saying your wrong btw, just another way of looking at it). To lead in anything you need followers. To get followers you have to have a cause that makes them unite behind you. That cause almost always has to have someone to blame. That basic part of human nature is true no matter where you are in the world. Hitler blamed the Jews for all the trouble (great example). Placing blame, getting people mad, pointing fingers, is all part of the game of politics, becoming a leader, creating a movement, etc. Oh & of course that person to blame has to be someone that's blamable. You will never get any kind of movement behind you putting blame on 4 year old cripple children, they just aren't blamable. Big corporations, the rich, those type things are blamable & of course if your overseas you can blame the U.S. Now I'm not saying that we aren't to blame, just explaining how you rise to power. My guess is that some of these terrorist thank Allah every day for the U.S. because without us focus the blame on they would be unimportant people that nobody would follow.

[floridayankee]

Feb 5, 2012 23:28:24 GMT -5 djAdvocate said:

Feb 5, 2012 23:14:27 GMT -5 handyman2 said:

You are so right DJ. Meddling only brings grief. The idea that we can bring democracy through force to peoples who don't want it or understand it is insane. We cannot be the policemen or conscious for the whole world. But to many of our leaders seem to think so.

handy- do you think the idea that we CAN do this stems from "exceptionalism"? i have been trying to figure it out for a long long time.

Gordon Wood seems to think so.

When joined to Protestant millennialism, Americans grew to believe that they were God's chosen people, with a mission to lead the world toward liberty and republican government, a view that Wood uses to explain America's continued attempts to create republics in places like Iraq and Afghanistan.

The Idea of America: Reflections on the Birth of the United States
Gordon S. Wood

[reasonfreedom]

Feb 6, 2012 13:06:52 GMT -5 floridayankee said:

Feb 5, 2012 23:28:24 GMT -5 djAdvocate said:

handy- do you think the idea that we CAN do this stems from "exceptionalism"? i have been trying to figure it out for a long long time.

Gordon Wood seems to think so.

When joined to Protestant millennialism, Americans grew to believe that they were God's chosen people, with a mission to lead the world toward liberty and republican government, a view that Wood uses to explain America's continued attempts to create republics in places like Iraq and Afghanistan.

The Idea of America: Reflections on the Birth of the United States
Gordon S. Wood

This kind of reminds me of lunacy. Didn't the Catholic church try implement Christianity by force with the crusades. Maybe I am wrong but didn't 100's of thousands of people die because of it. I don't see the difference of the U.S. trying to implement republics with the use of force. Whether it is religion or a form of government it is just pure lunacy to think that you can force that choice on another and if you are able to do so do you think they won't hold you responsible if it doesn't work?

[djAdvocate]

Feb 6, 2012 14:30:19 GMT -5 reasonfreedom said:

Feb 6, 2012 13:06:52 GMT -5 floridayankee said:

Gordon Wood seems to think so.

When joined to Protestant millennialism, Americans grew to believe that they were God's chosen people, with a mission to lead the world toward liberty and republican government, a view that Wood uses to explain America's continued attempts to create republics in places like Iraq and Afghanistan.

The Idea of America: Reflections on the Birth of the United States
Gordon S. Wood

This kind of reminds me of lunacy. Didn't the Catholic church try implement Christianity by force with the crusades. Maybe I am wrong but didn't 100's of thousands of people die because of it. I don't see the difference of the U.S. trying to implement republics with the use of force. Whether it is religion or a form of government it is just pure lunacy to think that you can force that choice on another and if you are able to do so do you think they won't hold you responsible if it doesn't work?

truly. trying to enforce one's virtue at gunpoint is the surest route to eternal damnation.

[floridayankee]

Feb 6, 2012 15:06:26 GMT -5 djAdvocate said:

truly. trying to enforce one's virtue at gunpoint is the surest route to eternal damnation.

Unless you're Muslim. Then you get virgins. I'm thinking about joining.

I wonder if you can get an application online.....

[djAdvocate]

Feb 6, 2012 15:17:40 GMT -5 floridayankee said:

Feb 6, 2012 15:06:26 GMT -5 djAdvocate said:

truly. trying to enforce one's virtue at gunpoint is the surest route to eternal damnation.

Unless you're Muslim. Then you get virgins. I'm thinking about joining.

I wonder if you can get an application online.....

most Muslims don't believe that. the ones that do are in for a surprise.

but at least the music is better.

[reasonfreedom]

Feb 6, 2012 15:17:40 GMT -5 floridayankee said:

Feb 6, 2012 15:06:26 GMT -5 djAdvocate said:

truly. trying to enforce one's virtue at gunpoint is the surest route to eternal damnation.

Unless you're Muslim. Then you get virgins. I'm thinking about joining.

I wonder if you can get an application online.....

Do you want male or female virgins, because I think when I looked up that part in the Koran that it didn't state which ones you were going to get.

[formerexpat]

Only the DoD gives more money to Obama than Paul...of course,Obama is more of the same and does the DoD pretty well, so no shock.

[humok]

Hmmmm picture this: We have an uprising in this country because many have reached their last straw with the govt for what ever reason and it breaks out in violence and in comes the UN forces(mainly Russia and china) and tell our Pres and most Senators to step down. They comply and then they place people in power that we hate even more but nothing we can do about it. Now we are worse off than before and who do we turn too at this point. That is basically what we are doing in the ME and we have no right what so ever to be dictating to anyone how they should live in their country nor who should rule. We are causing many nations of people to hate our guts because we have become what Russia previously was. We have ceased the chance to Nation build for our own interest along with the Global elites that are slobbering at the mouth to bring their construction outfits of choice and make the money rebuilding everything along with raping their resources. Just my opinion.

[formerexpat]

Seen this yet, Humok?

[humok]

Yep but you are a nut job to agree with that according to the many warmongers in this country. What they think (many that I have talked to in person and on boards) is that just like Iran right now, we should go over there and just bomb the hell out of them and be done with it. We are the military arm of the Globalist and they are taking good care of our politicians so the story continues until the American people wake up. Israel will attack and soon, where do you think we will be after that happens? Too many have adopted the Idea of the Conquerer Nation.