|
Post by Savoir Faire-Demogague in NJ on Feb 4, 2012 8:41:52 GMT -5
Number 2 has some validity, if one is willing to accept the destruction of one's life savings. If you are up to your eyeballs in debt yourself, you won't mind if other creditors, including China are paid in devalued currency. Number one is just sheer arrogance in action.
|
|
rockon
Senior Member
Joined: Dec 22, 2010 8:49:55 GMT -5
Posts: 2,384
|
Post by rockon on Feb 4, 2012 9:46:00 GMT -5
Both are "poop". If number one is true then Obama has to be uneducated and uninformed since he said the amount of debt when he took office was irresponsible and unpatriotic. Would anybody suggest that anyone handle their personal finances this way?
|
|
rockon
Senior Member
Joined: Dec 22, 2010 8:49:55 GMT -5
Posts: 2,384
|
Post by rockon on Feb 4, 2012 10:05:14 GMT -5
How you and I would handle our finances isn't applicable to how countries do because we cannot print our own money, they can.
There is some truth to this statement but them printing money for this purpose would be similar to us stealing money. Everything is still relative and the same principles apply. You can't spend more then you take in or you go broke!
|
|
rockon
Senior Member
Joined: Dec 22, 2010 8:49:55 GMT -5
Posts: 2,384
|
Post by rockon on Feb 4, 2012 10:14:33 GMT -5
agree all the way!
|
|
AgeOfEnlightenmentSCP
Distinguished Associate
Joined: Dec 21, 2010 11:59:07 GMT -5
Posts: 31,709
Favorite Drink: Sweetwater 420
|
Post by AgeOfEnlightenmentSCP on Feb 4, 2012 10:25:19 GMT -5
Message deleted by mmhmm. Post removed for insult to another poster. Not going to be tolerated, paul. You have no right to call another poster a "troll".
|
|
AgeOfEnlightenmentSCP
Distinguished Associate
Joined: Dec 21, 2010 11:59:07 GMT -5
Posts: 31,709
Favorite Drink: Sweetwater 420
|
Post by AgeOfEnlightenmentSCP on Feb 4, 2012 10:27:15 GMT -5
Of course they are stealing. As I have often complained, they are stealing from me for one. At a time when I am between jobs, my life savings are invested at abysmal interest rates. My own personal income would be a good 8 or 10K a year higher at mediocre interest rates that usually prevail. I am not defending it, only explaining why such daylight robbery benefits certain folks. There are a lot of real problems with this inflationary policy including greater boom-bust cycles as people are forced to abandon conservative investments at the point of a gun and are forced into speculation via "yield seeking behavior." Ever read Kiyosaki? He warned years ago that savers are losers and nobody paid any attention, or if they did they were so busy freaking out and criticizing him that they missed the fact that what he was saying is true.
|
|
billisonboard
Community Leader
Joined: Dec 20, 2010 22:45:44 GMT -5
Posts: 37,516
Member is Online
|
Post by billisonboard on Feb 4, 2012 10:35:21 GMT -5
Throwing the term "troll" at someone is just an attempt to silence. Don't let it please.
|
|
Deleted
Joined: May 19, 2024 10:50:53 GMT -5
Posts: 0
|
Post by Deleted on Feb 4, 2012 11:00:35 GMT -5
1. I laugh at people who are overly alarmed at our debt cause it shows a lack of understanding of debt budgets and economics. Our debt is big but manageable. It's used to rile up the uneducated and uninformed.
People are interesting. They (I'm assuming) are able to make good financial decision's in managing their own debt yet are unable to apply that good judgment to government debt. It's like they don't see or understand that the same principles apply & they do. Example:
You home finances are such that you have to borrow 40% of what you spend just to keep going. Not only that but you have increased you total debt load by about 50% in just 4 years. That for the typical American would spell financial disaster looming in the near future. Your unable to control your spending & have to borrow to continue your lifestyle. That's a snowball going down hill & gaining momentum & size. Yet because it's the government doing it somehow all financial rules are suspended & it's "OK".
Well I don't laugh at people who don't have a logic circuit in their brain nor do I laugh at people that are unable to use a calculator. I feel sorry for them. They do serve one purpose though & that's keeping rent to own businesses in business. As for "our debt is manageable", well all debt is manageable right up until your credit gets cut off or you can't make the payments. To me it compares to jumping off a 20 story building. You really don't have to worry about any part of the trip down except the last foot or two & folks who make statements like that are enjoying the "flight".
|
|
djAdvocate
Member Emeritus
only posting when the mood strikes me.
Joined: Jun 21, 2011 12:33:54 GMT -5
Posts: 75,233
Mini-Profile Background: {"image":"","color":"000307"}
|
Post by djAdvocate on Feb 4, 2012 11:23:51 GMT -5
Help me out with this please. Somebody mentioned they were a Ron Paul supporter and that they were concerned about the country having a $15 Trillion deficit. Here are 2 responses that I read. I'd really like to hear your thoughts on the replies. I didn't realize so many people were supportive of our debt. Thanks in advance. I only lurk on p&m because I have so much to learn. 1. I laugh at people who are overly alarmed at our debt cause it shows a lack of understanding of debt budgets and economics. Our debt is big but manageable. It's used to rile up the uneducated and uninformed. 2. The devaluation of the dollar makes our exports cheaper therefore more competitive which is exactly the right thing in an economic downturn. If we're at full or near full employment with reasonable growth and inflation I'd be worried about a devalued dollar as well. Now not the time. Let alone the fact that we are in a liquidity trap so inflation is not an issue with this particular expansionary policy the fed has pursued. Monetary expansion was and is the right thing to do at the present. As long as the liquidity trap remains inflation will not be an issue which is exactly what we're seeing. agreed on both counts. debt is being used by shock doctrinaires to ram through radical reforms that would be otherwise unpalatable.
|
|
usaone
Senior Member
Joined: Dec 21, 2010 9:10:23 GMT -5
Posts: 3,429
|
Post by usaone on Feb 4, 2012 12:04:19 GMT -5
In a few years our debt will hit 20 Trillion. But our GDP will also be 20 Trillion.
The biggest reason our debt has jumped so much over the last several years is the severe recession which slowed down GDP growth.
If you want to talk about runaway government spending, Ronald Reagan somehow managed to significantly increase our National debt even with 5% to 8% GDP.
Now that is spending.
I still think he was one of our greatest Presidents, but boy could he spend our tax dollars.
|
|
mmhmm
Administrator
It's a great pity the right of free speech isn't based on the obligation to say something sensible.
Joined: Dec 25, 2010 18:13:34 GMT -5
Posts: 31,770
Today's Mood: Saddened by Events
Location: Memory Lane
Favorite Drink: Water
|
Post by mmhmm on Feb 4, 2012 12:16:37 GMT -5
Help me out with this please. Somebody mentioned they were a Ron Paul supporter and that they were concerned about the country having a $15 Trillion deficit. Here are 2 responses that I read. I'd really like to hear your thoughts on the replies. I didn't realize so many people were supportive of our debt. Thanks in advance. I only lurk on p&m because I have so much to learn. 1. I laugh at people who are overly alarmed at our debt cause it shows a lack of understanding of debt budgets and economics. Our debt is big but manageable. It's used to rile up the uneducated and uninformed. 2. The devaluation of the dollar makes our exports cheaper therefore more competitive which is exactly the right thing in an economic downturn. If we're at full or near full employment with reasonable growth and inflation I'd be worried about a devalued dollar as well. Now not the time. Let alone the fact that we are in a liquidity trap so inflation is not an issue with this particular expansionary policy the fed has pursued. Monetary expansion was and is the right thing to do at the present. As long as the liquidity trap remains inflation will not be an issue which is exactly what we're seeing. I don't know that people are actually supportive of our debt, wrongside. At least, I don't know anyone who is. I do know some are much more alarmed than others, and I do believe a great deal of that has to do with all the hype being dished out on a daily basis. There's a lot that goes into global debt structures that I don't claim to understand. I'm anything but an economics guru and I sure don't claim to be one. Like you, I learn by things posted here that lead me to go looking for more information from a variety of sources. By the way, I wanted to apologize to you for not catching the post that insulted you until it had been up for a bit. Unfortunately, we can't always read every post, and I'd missed that one. It has been removed. Welcome out of lurkdom!
|
|
|
Post by jarhead1976 on Feb 4, 2012 12:23:33 GMT -5
No, it is quite different because a country can expand or contract its currency at will if it uses Fiat currency. Furthermore, American currency is a RESERVE CURRENCY. This is a special animal. When a currency is a reserve currency, it means that it is the currency used to settle debts among other nations. All oil for example, must be bought and paid for in American Dollars. Essentially, every country that needs to buy oil is our involuntary creditor. This sweet deal was implemented a generation ago and America has had a free ride ever since. Every time someone seriously discusses ending the relationship, a war breaks out. This is said to be the real reason for the first Gulf War. www.rense.com/general34/realre.htmwww.dailypioneer.com/columnists/item/50881-us-not-iran-is-to-blame.html?tmpl=component&print=1China and India are buying Irans oil with Gold. rt.com/news/iran-india-gold-oil-543/some Karma oldtex
|
|
billisonboard
Community Leader
Joined: Dec 20, 2010 22:45:44 GMT -5
Posts: 37,516
Member is Online
|
Post by billisonboard on Feb 4, 2012 12:23:48 GMT -5
.. I still think he was one of our greatest Presidents, ... Why?
|
|
workpublic
Junior Associate
Catch and release please
Joined: Dec 30, 2010 14:01:48 GMT -5
Posts: 5,551
Favorite Drink: Heineken
|
Post by workpublic on Feb 4, 2012 12:26:45 GMT -5
i never liked him. between him and clinton, we were borrowed and sold out.
|
|
usaone
Senior Member
Joined: Dec 21, 2010 9:10:23 GMT -5
Posts: 3,429
|
Post by usaone on Feb 4, 2012 12:29:26 GMT -5
He was the right guy for the time. He broke the country out of the Malaise of the 1970's.
Post Watergate, run away inflation,Nixon,Carter,Iran Hostages, we needed a guy like him. Being an actor helped him greatly.
No President is perfect but he did more right than wrong.
|
|
billisonboard
Community Leader
Joined: Dec 20, 2010 22:45:44 GMT -5
Posts: 37,516
Member is Online
|
Post by billisonboard on Feb 4, 2012 12:37:12 GMT -5
He was the right guy for the time. He broke the country out of the Malaise of the 1970's. Post Watergate, run away inflation,Nixon,Carter,Iran Hostages, we needed a guy like him. Being an actor helped him greatly. No President is perfect but he did more right than wrong. He certainly was a "feel good" guy. What did he do right?
|
|
workpublic
Junior Associate
Catch and release please
Joined: Dec 30, 2010 14:01:48 GMT -5
Posts: 5,551
Favorite Drink: Heineken
|
Post by workpublic on Feb 4, 2012 12:39:37 GMT -5
at the time, i thought we should have made him king. i was in my 20s driving my first new car, living rent free at my parents house and making 12k a year. a bump up from the 5.2k i was making before i went to computer school. but years later i realized the nations "prosperity" was all from borrowing and spending.
|
|
workpublic
Junior Associate
Catch and release please
Joined: Dec 30, 2010 14:01:48 GMT -5
Posts: 5,551
Favorite Drink: Heineken
|
Post by workpublic on Feb 4, 2012 12:41:36 GMT -5
why don't we hear anything about the BRIC?
|
|
billisonboard
Community Leader
Joined: Dec 20, 2010 22:45:44 GMT -5
Posts: 37,516
Member is Online
|
Post by billisonboard on Feb 4, 2012 12:44:37 GMT -5
at the time, i thought we should have made him king. i was in my 20s driving my first new car, living rent free at my parents house and making 12k a year. a bump up from the 5.2k i was making before i went to computer school. but years later i realized the nations "prosperity" was all from borrowing and spending. Don't forget the Beirut Marine Barracks attack retreat followed by the wonderful Grenada "victory". What a Hollywood Hero.
|
|
workpublic
Junior Associate
Catch and release please
Joined: Dec 30, 2010 14:01:48 GMT -5
Posts: 5,551
Favorite Drink: Heineken
|
Post by workpublic on Feb 4, 2012 12:46:24 GMT -5
the BRIC is the reason why the UN and the US are hands off in syria.
|
|
usaone
Senior Member
Joined: Dec 21, 2010 9:10:23 GMT -5
Posts: 3,429
|
Post by usaone on Feb 4, 2012 12:58:10 GMT -5
He was the right guy for the time. He broke the country out of the Malaise of the 1970's. Post Watergate, run away inflation,Nixon,Carter,Iran Hostages, we needed a guy like him. Being an actor helped him greatly. No President is perfect but he did more right than wrong. He certainly was a "feel good" guy. What did he do right? You don't think he did anything right?
|
|
usaone
Senior Member
Joined: Dec 21, 2010 9:10:23 GMT -5
Posts: 3,429
|
Post by usaone on Feb 4, 2012 13:01:31 GMT -5
If Obama had pulled out of Beirut after 200+ Marines were murdered, PBP would have 20 threads screaming about it.
Obama is killing every terrorist and pirate we can find.
|
|
billisonboard
Community Leader
Joined: Dec 20, 2010 22:45:44 GMT -5
Posts: 37,516
Member is Online
|
Post by billisonboard on Feb 4, 2012 13:06:21 GMT -5
He certainly was a "feel good" guy. What did he do right? You don't think he did anything right? Good turn around of the question. You indicated you thought he was one of the "greatest". Simply because he made people feel good?
|
|
usaone
Senior Member
Joined: Dec 21, 2010 9:10:23 GMT -5
Posts: 3,429
|
Post by usaone on Feb 4, 2012 13:11:26 GMT -5
Reagan had many tailwinds at his back. Historically high taxes, historically high interest rates and the baby boomers hitting their prime earning years.
I guess the biggest plus for Reagan was he compromised with Tip Oneil. There wasn't much government gridlock in the 1980's.
|
|
billisonboard
Community Leader
Joined: Dec 20, 2010 22:45:44 GMT -5
Posts: 37,516
Member is Online
|
Post by billisonboard on Feb 4, 2012 13:25:27 GMT -5
Reagan had many tailwinds at his back. Historically high taxes, historically high interest rates and the baby boomers hitting their prime earning years. I guess the biggest plus for Reagan was he compromised with Tip Oneil. There wasn't much government gridlock in the 1980's. They did get a lot done. Can you identify anything that they got done that was good (long term)? btw, it is my contention that the reversal of the trend of paying down the national debt in relationship to the GDP, which happened during the Reagan years, has lead us directly to where we are today so switching us from paying for government to borrowing to finance government was not a good thing long term.
|
|
billisonboard
Community Leader
Joined: Dec 20, 2010 22:45:44 GMT -5
Posts: 37,516
Member is Online
|
Post by billisonboard on Feb 4, 2012 13:41:23 GMT -5
Always reminds me of the Reagan myth:
|
|
djAdvocate
Member Emeritus
only posting when the mood strikes me.
Joined: Jun 21, 2011 12:33:54 GMT -5
Posts: 75,233
Mini-Profile Background: {"image":"","color":"000307"}
|
Post by djAdvocate on Feb 4, 2012 14:11:44 GMT -5
In a few years our debt will hit 20 Trillion. But our GDP will also be 20 Trillion. The biggest reason our debt has jumped so much over the last several years is the severe recession which slowed down GDP growth. If you want to talk about runaway government spending, Ronald Reagan somehow managed to significantly increase our National debt even with 5% to 8% GDP. Now that is spending. I still think he was one of our greatest Presidents, but boy could he spend our tax dollars. his policies were very similar to Obama's. it just goes to show how far the pendulum has swung, when Reagan could not possibly run as a Republican in 2012.
|
|
djAdvocate
Member Emeritus
only posting when the mood strikes me.
Joined: Jun 21, 2011 12:33:54 GMT -5
Posts: 75,233
Mini-Profile Background: {"image":"","color":"000307"}
|
Post by djAdvocate on Feb 4, 2012 14:15:34 GMT -5
Neither could "Liberal" Nixon nor "Ike" either. straight up.
|
|
usaone
Senior Member
Joined: Dec 21, 2010 9:10:23 GMT -5
Posts: 3,429
|
Post by usaone on Feb 4, 2012 14:39:47 GMT -5
Well Mitt will be a centrist If he gets elected and what's left of the Tea Party are furious.
|
|
djAdvocate
Member Emeritus
only posting when the mood strikes me.
Joined: Jun 21, 2011 12:33:54 GMT -5
Posts: 75,233
Mini-Profile Background: {"image":"","color":"000307"}
|
Post by djAdvocate on Feb 4, 2012 14:42:31 GMT -5
We can't figure out what he will be. So far he looks like a weathervane. LOL!
|
|