NastyWoman
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Post by NastyWoman on Feb 1, 2012 0:33:25 GMT -5
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Phoenix84
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Post by Phoenix84 on Feb 1, 2012 2:02:26 GMT -5
Well, if you read the article, it says that federal employees are paid higher than private sector counterparts at lower level jobs, but under compensated at higher level jobs.
I am a fed, and this has been my experience as well. Low level workers, secrataries and the like, get a good deal. But high level managers and well qualified professionals get significantly lower. Think about it, how much does a CEO of a large cooperation make when compared to the top administator of a government agency, like the USDA, or the FDA? What about the Secretary of Defense, who oversees over a million soldiers and civilians, yet is capped at what the Vice President makes, 230,700 for 2010?
When i started at a Naval Shipyard, most of the engineers looked at their jobs as stepping stones to get experience, then would go private and make significantly more.
I don't know what the answer is. The government is a different entity too. The government has less need for common laborers and certain professions, but more of a need for "professional" services. But I concur with the article that lower educated/qualified employees are paid more than their private sector counterparts, but higher educated/qualified employees are grossly underpaid. But I don't think it'd be very popular to pay top government administrators what they pay top executives from the private sector. Who wants to pay the top guys of NASA several million a year? Even if that's what they're really worth and what they could get in the private sector.
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Deleted
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Post by Deleted on Feb 1, 2012 8:56:29 GMT -5
Yes. Minimum wage for all Federal workers and make them pay 100% of their health care. No pensions either. And make them pay for parking - parking lots don't build themselves. Also, make them stand or purchase their own desk.
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gavinsnana
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Post by gavinsnana on Feb 1, 2012 8:59:48 GMT -5
Yes the do.. and we are the one's paying them, overpaying them.. for life. You can retire on full salary after 20 years, and live off that or take another job.. which I have seen many do. Its a joke.
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midjd
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Post by midjd on Feb 1, 2012 9:00:14 GMT -5
I think this is true, and I know it's true for the state. I don't think any of our admins make less than $35K, but attorney salaries only run from $55K - $90K or so. Not a huge difference for the additional education/certification that is required... (And yes, the government does need attorneys )
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Deleted
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Post by Deleted on Feb 1, 2012 9:05:57 GMT -5
While not direct government employees, mail carriers can make over 70k now. That is a lot of money for a low skill job.
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Deleted
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Post by Deleted on Feb 1, 2012 9:11:07 GMT -5
"Well, if you read the article, it says that federal employees are paid higher than private sector counterparts at lower level jobs, but under compensated at higher level jobs."
Yep. The clerks make more than they would in the private sector, the doctors make less, and I am right in the middle.
I looked it up with my professional organizations. I am right at the median salary for my degree and years of experience. As for benefits, I pay more for my health insurance than I have at any other job and get about the same amount of time off.
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alabamagal
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Post by alabamagal on Feb 1, 2012 9:18:54 GMT -5
I worked for a government contractor for 2 years interacting daily with government employees, after working for a private sector company 20 years. A worked on a project for career development, so I am quite familiar with the available pay scale. My opinion is that starting wages are lower for government employees than for private sector. The pay system then basically rewards people for continuing to work for the government and getting some grade increases. mzost people in the middle level seemed to have been there for a while and were firmly entrenched in the "goverment worker mentality".
My opinion, the lower level professionals were underpaid compared to private and seemed like good people. The middle level group (GS9-11) were basically those who had been in their jobs forever, were never going to leave the government and were just putting in there time. They were maxed out on their level. This group I would say was overpaid based on their comparison to rpivate sector employees. The middle level management folks that I dealt with (GS-13 and above), seemed like a very great group of people and compared with private sector managers that I had dealt with. This group was probably underpaid when compared to the private sector.
Since there is basically no private sector type performance system in place, the middle group, the majority of the workers, are just rewarded for staying in place and doing the minimum to keep their job.
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Deleted
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Post by Deleted on Feb 1, 2012 9:23:09 GMT -5
"My opinion, the lower level professionals were underpaid compared to private and seemed like good people. The middle level group (GS9-11) were basically those who had been in their jobs forever, were never going to leave the government and were just putting in there time. They were maxed out on their level. This group I would say was overpaid based on their comparison to rpivate sector employees. The middle level management folks that I dealt with (GS-13 and above), seemed like a very great group of people and compared with private sector managers that I had dealt with. This group was probably underpaid when compared to the private sector."
You can't judge how long someone has been in that position based on their paygrade. My position starts at GS-12.
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alabamagal
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Post by alabamagal on Feb 1, 2012 9:31:04 GMT -5
"You can't judge how long someone has been in that position based on their paygrade. My position starts at GS-12. No, but after interacting with many people in that range, I can get a pretty good idea based on a guess at their age, and in conversations, most will tell you how long they worked for the government. The people I worked with were supply/logistics analysts and had worked for the government 20+ years. In fact when first working with just about all of them, they would ask me where I was from and what my background was and would share theirs.
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8 Bit WWBG
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Post by 8 Bit WWBG on Feb 1, 2012 9:55:16 GMT -5
Oh great, another private sector buffoon whose high salary and bonuses have dried up is jumping on the bandwagon of blaming federal employees for still having jobs. When things are good, these morons brag and boast about how much better private employment is and how silly we are for choosing security over salary. Now that we still have jobs and they don't, they have to face the consequences of their choices and are mad about it.
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ontrack
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Post by ontrack on Feb 1, 2012 9:57:59 GMT -5
People need to stop it with the "fed pensions are a golden parachute" thing. This may have been true in the past under the old CSRS system, but no so under the new. It's much more modest, and designed to supplement 401(k) (TSP) earnings and SS, if it's still around. Also, my share of health insurance premium is higher than my husband's for similar coverage. We do not get free health care. I could make more in the private sector, but I like my job security (one major benefit of government service, and one that's been under attack recently).
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Phoenix84
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Post by Phoenix84 on Feb 1, 2012 10:07:42 GMT -5
One other thing I'd like to point out.
Often, in articles like these, they point out a big salary for a job that shouldn't make that much. But then they fail to mention that that person has been there for 35-40 years.
The government is still very much a "pay your dues" kind of place to work for. You usually end up starting pretty low. With a B.S in a STEM field I still started as a GS 5 making barely over 30k ($15 an hour) in a HCOLA (outside of Boston). That's about 10-15k less than I would have started at in the private sector (at least). Also, first year trade apprentices starting out fresh out of high school were making a bit more than I was.
It takes a long time to get to those higher pay grades.
In my current job, I believe I'm underpaid relative to my level of responsibility. But I also know I'm still relatively inexperienced so I don't let it bother me too much. And I realize I'm lucky to be gainfully employed.
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swamp
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Post by swamp on Feb 1, 2012 10:11:55 GMT -5
I think this is true, and I know it's true for the state. I don't think any of our admins make less than $35K, but attorney salaries only run from $55K - $90K or so. Not a huge difference for the additional education/certification that is required... (And yes, the government does need attorneys ) Locally, Assist. DA's top out at about $60k, and the Chief ADA makes $75k. You can make that in part time private practice. Way to go, local gov, chase out the experienced prosecutors adn replace them with people right out of law school.
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Phoenix84
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Post by Phoenix84 on Feb 1, 2012 10:17:00 GMT -5
"People need to stop it with the "fed pensions are a golden parachute" thing. This may have been true in the past under the old CSRS system, but no so under the new. It's much more modest, and designed to supplement 401(k) (TSP) earnings and SS, if it's still around. Also, my share of health insurance premium is higher than my husband's for similar coverage. We do not get free health care. I could make more in the private sector, but I like my job security (one major benefit of government service, and one that's been under attack recently)."
Yeah, the myth that federal employees get lavish pensions and "free healthcare" is a myth that just won't die. I realize most in the private sector don't get a pension at all, but our pension isn't really that great. Certainly not going to be making anywhere close to 100k. I'd be lucky to make much more than 50k in today's dollars after 40 years of service, assuming things don't change.
Beyond the pension, I think our benefits are pretty middle of the road compared to any other fortune 500 company. Honestly, our dental and vision plans aren't that great, and our medical premium go up every year.
We also get very little in the way of bonuses or profit sharing. Again, not complaining, just pointing out things aren't quite as rosy as some seem to think it is.
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mandyms
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Post by mandyms on Feb 1, 2012 10:18:18 GMT -5
Yes the do.. and we are the one's paying them, overpaying them.. for life. You can retire on full salary after 20 years, and live off that or take another job.. which I have seen many do. Its a joke. Not true. I have to work 30 years to get "full retirement benefits" but that's still only 30% of the average of my highest consectutive earning years...there's talk of using a 4 year average. When I calculate base on my current payscale, the amount I get may pay for my health insurance.
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Deleted
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Post by Deleted on Feb 1, 2012 10:23:20 GMT -5
is it time already for another one of these type of threads?
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midjd
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Post by midjd on Feb 1, 2012 10:24:17 GMT -5
Wow, Swamp, ours are overpaid compared to yours! I think the county prosecutors make low six figures.
What seems a little unfair is that all the judges/prosecutors/public defenders earn the same salaries - whether they're working in Indianapolis, East Chicago, or French Lick. Some of the jobs can be very cushy, and some run you ragged, but they all pay the same.
(I can understand why, though - basing pay on # of cases filed or some other measure carries its own pitfalls).
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swamp
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Post by swamp on Feb 1, 2012 10:24:26 GMT -5
is it time already for another one of these type of threads? I think we need a working moms who are federal employees who choose not to breastfeed thread. Perhaps we should note that they don't use coupons, either.
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swamp
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Post by swamp on Feb 1, 2012 10:25:51 GMT -5
Wow, Swamp, ours are overpaid compared to yours! I think the county prosecutors make low six figures. What seems a little unfair is that all the judges/prosecutors/public defenders earn the same salaries - whether they're working in Indianapolis, East Chicago, or French Lick. Some of the jobs can be very cushy, and some run you ragged, but they all pay the same. (I can understand why, though - basing pay on # of cases filed or some other measure carries its own pitfalls). Our head DA makes $119k, which is mandated by the state. The Public Defender makes $70k to $85k, depending on experience. They can't keep them because the job sucks and doesn't pay shit compared to private practice.
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Deleted
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Post by Deleted on Feb 1, 2012 10:31:00 GMT -5
"I think we need a working moms who are federal employees who choose not to breastfeed thread. Perhaps we should note that they don't use coupons, either. "
And they can't make their huge car payment because they had to "loan" money to their parents/sibling/friend.
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midjd
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Post by midjd on Feb 1, 2012 10:32:48 GMT -5
How come it's always moms getting the business? Let's bash dads for a change
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Sum Dum Gai
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Post by Sum Dum Gai on Feb 1, 2012 11:02:36 GMT -5
How come it's always moms getting the business? Let's bash dads for a change [image] What is there to bash? Dads are awesome! While we're on the subject of moms though, what is it with you chicks never stepping up to coach your kid's teams? My daughter's play in an all female fast pitch softball league. Every single coach is a guy, and none of the mother's volunteer to coach because they don't have enough experience/don't feel comfortable doing it. You think your husband played female fast pitch softball as a kid??? He doesn't know what he's doing either. Get off your lazy butt's and help out, and no, being "team mom" is not helping out. Neither is bringing snacks. What is this 1950?
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TheOtherMe
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Post by TheOtherMe on Feb 1, 2012 11:22:48 GMT -5
Yes the do.. and we are the one's paying them, overpaying them.. for life. You can retire on full salary after 20 years, and live off that or take another job.. which I have seen many do. Its a joke. I started working for the federal government in 1969 and was offered an early out in 1995 and accepted it. No federal retiree receives an amount equal to full salary. My pension is a CSRS pernsion and was based on my high 3 years of service. My pension is not lavish by any means, especially since I didn't pay in to Social Security all those years. We do have nice health insurance, but most Fortune 500 type companies have similar health insurance. I do pay for some of my health insurance premiums and have co-pays, etc. I have worked since my retirement, but not full-time. I worked part-time to get enough credits to earn a minimal amount of Social Security and there is some kind of an offset against that so I can't double dip. Friends who are now on Medicare tell me their Social Security after the offset is about enough to pay their Medicare premiums. We did pay in to Medicare starting at some point. I don't remember when, but I had plenty of Medicare paid in when I retired for the federal government to receive it. We have to sign up for Medicare when we are 65 or pay out of pocket the portion of health care that would be covered by Medicare. I don't know where you got your information, but it's not even close to being accurate.
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TheOtherMe
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Post by TheOtherMe on Feb 1, 2012 11:25:14 GMT -5
Way back when I started with the federal government, I accepted a position there as a clerk-steno (as in somebody who takes shorthand) rather than at private companies in my town because it did pay more. The city where I lived had a lot of insurance companies and didn't pay clerical workers very well.
However, as I worked my way up after getting an accounting degree, I could have made more money in private industry. However, I had so many years in that it would have been difficult to leave and start over as to retirement.
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swamp
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Post by swamp on Feb 1, 2012 11:27:24 GMT -5
How come it's always moms getting the business? Let's bash dads for a change [image] What is there to bash? Dads are awesome! While we're on the subject of moms though, what is it with you chicks never stepping up to coach your kid's teams? My daughter's play in an all female fast pitch softball league. Every single coach is a guy, and none of the mother's volunteer to coach because they don't have enough experience/don't feel comfortable doing it. You think your husband played female fast pitch softball as a kid??? He doesn't know what he's doing either. Get off your lazy butt's and help out, and no, being "team mom" is not helping out. Neither is bringing snacks. What is this 1950? I was going to coach hockey this year, but I don't have a helmet and they won't let me out on the ice without one. I do plan on coaching little league.
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comom1
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Post by comom1 on Feb 1, 2012 11:27:34 GMT -5
How come it's always moms getting the business? Let's bash dads for a change [image] What is there to bash? Dads are awesome! While we're on the subject of moms though, what is it with you chicks never stepping up to coach your kid's teams? My daughter's play in an all female fast pitch softball league. Every single coach is a guy, and none of the mother's volunteer to coach because they don't have enough experience/don't feel comfortable doing it. You think your husband played female fast pitch softball as a kid??? He doesn't know what he's doing either. Get off your lazy butt's and help out, and no, being "team mom" is not helping out. Neither is bringing snacks. What is this 1950? My mom was the first Little League coach in my hometown. The other coaches wouldn't talk to her and she had to wear a dress to games. This was in the late 60s. My best friend coached her sons' and daughter's soccer teams. Not sure what women are like in California, but in the square states, we step up.
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Deleted
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Post by Deleted on Feb 1, 2012 11:29:30 GMT -5
how long will it be before a CEO pay thread materializes? (or is the frequency of that one every other month?)
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swamp
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Post by swamp on Feb 1, 2012 11:29:31 GMT -5
How come it's always moms getting the business? Let's bash dads for a change [image] What is there to bash? Dads are awesome! While we're on the subject of moms though, what is it with you chicks never stepping up to coach your kid's teams? My daughter's play in an all female fast pitch softball league. Every single coach is a guy, and none of the mother's volunteer to coach because they don't have enough experience/don't feel comfortable doing it. You think your husband played female fast pitch softball as a kid??? He doesn't know what he's doing either. Get off your lazy butt's and help out, and no, being "team mom" is not helping out. Neither is bringing snacks. What is this 1950? My mom was the first Little League coach in my hometown. The other coaches wouldn't talk to her and she had to wear a dress to games. This was in the late 60s. My best friend coached her sons' and daughter's soccer teams. Not sure what women are like in California, but in the square states, we step up. We step up in the dog head shaped state too. All the coaches for soccer this fall were women, and about half the tball coaches were women.
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saveinla
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Post by saveinla on Feb 1, 2012 11:32:03 GMT -5
My son's soccer team at 10 was coached by a woman and they won the regionals. She was awesome. So it looks like NorCal women are not stepping up . I am in SoCal and I see quite a few women coaches here at the soccer games.
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