California's new auto mandates

[EveryWhichWay]

Now, did anyone think about what happens to those wonderful "electric" batteries when they finally go poof? Landfills?

Why yes they did. The article you posted states that

According to environmental researchers, that's not the case. Jim Kliesch, author of the "Green Book: The Environmental Guide to Cars and Trucks" told HybridCars.com, "There are many types of batteries. Some are far more toxic than others. While batteries like lead acid or nickel cadmium are incredibly bad for the environment, the toxicity levels and environmental impact of nickel metal hydride batteries—the type currently used in hybrids—are much lower."

So what's your point?

[EveryWhichWay]

Greener Pastures for Car Batteries

The carmakers are waiting in the wings. Toyota and Honda place decals with a toll-free number on their hybrid battery packs. Toyota offers a $200 bounty to ensure that every battery comes back to the company. In a press release, Toyota states, "Every part of the battery, from the precious metals to the plastic, plates, steel case and the wiring, is recycled." Honda collects the battery and transfers it to a preferred recycler to follow their prescribed process: disassembling and sorting the materials; shredding the plastic material; recovering and processing the metal; and neutralizing the alkaline material before sending it to a landfill.

Honda, Toyota and the entire auto industry are pumping millions of dollars into research regarding lithium ion batteries for tomorrow's cars. Their primary motivation is to reduce the cost and increase the potency of hybrid batteries. Fortunately, supplanting lead and nickel batteries with rechargeable lithium batteries is also promising from an environmental perspective. Instead of clogging landfills with more toxic chemicals, hybrids—especially future hybrids powered by lithium ion batteries—may represent greener pastures for car batteries.

[wyouser]

Just an aside...Yesterday morning on Fox one of the economists they were interviewing made a comment on electric cars. Apparrently he has been provided with a Volt. After charging it the full 12 hours he attempted to comute to work at fox studios. He made it 18 miles before it stalled in a tunnel enroute to work. Apparently running the cars heater drains the battery very quickly......so again the question that is asked out here in the sticks...when you are stuck in a snow drift during a blizzard, how long will the heater operate before you freeze to death?

[EveryWhichWay]

My guess would be not long, so it would be best not to venture out during a blizzard in a hybrid

[Savoir Faire-Demogague in NJ]

Feb 1, 2012 11:52:33 GMT -5 EveryWhichWay said:

My guess would be not long, so it would be best not to venture out during a blizzard in a hybrid

In that case, a good, four wheel drive SUV would do the trick.

[Sum Dum Gai]

Apparrently he has been provided with a Volt. After charging it the full 12 hours he attempted to comute to work at fox studios. He made it 18 miles before it stalled in a tunnel enroute to work. Apparently running the cars heater drains the battery very quickly......so again the question that is asked out here in the sticks...when you are stuck in a snow drift during a blizzard, how long will the heater operate before you freeze to death?

That's why Tesla's are so appealing. Their battery technology goes something like 300 miles on a charge, not 40. The Roadster, their flashy super car is wicked expensive at around $100k. The Whitestar, which is a four door luxury sedan, is supposed to be around $50k. And they plan on having their economy sedan out in a couple years, at an MSRP of about $25k. The two sedans are also supposed to get around 250-300 miles per charge. We'll see if they can actually hit those milestones, but if so I think their sedan will sell really well. $25k is about what a new Camry or Civic costs, and 250-300 miles a day is plenty for most people. Especially those of us in California who don't have to worry about getting stuck in a blizzard.

[EveryWhichWay]

In that case, a good, four wheel drive SUV would do the trick.

Yes, that's why we kept our old Jeep when it came time to buy new vehicles. Living in the country you almost have to have one, if you need to get to work...also nice just for a little fun

[formerroomate99]

Doesn't the volt have a gasoline backup engine that generates electricity?

Considering how long it takes to recharge a battery, I wouldn't want a car that didn't have some kind of gasoline backup.

And while an electric car might work in mild climates, I hear that electric cars don't really do that well in extreme temperatures.

[Deleted]

"He made it 18 miles before it stalled in a tunnel enroute to work. Apparently running the cars heater drains the battery very quickly......"

Not that I like the Volt by any stretch of the imagination, but it's obvious he did this as a political ploy.

Remember, the Volt has an engine, too. And unless he was simply in very bad (i.e. standstill) traffic, there's no reason the heater should reduce the miles he could travel by half. The amount of energy required to heat a vehicle is much lower than the energy required to make it move. I'd bet he had the windows open and the heat on full blast, something nobody would ever do.

These sorts of games where everybody has to be on one side or the other and win at any cost are highly counter-productive.

[Phoenix84]

I'm a bit confused on how they can enforce such a law. So if a dealership can't meet the 15% quota what do they do? Tell customers they can't sell them a regular car?

[handyman2]

True at current demands the electric vehicles appear to be a bust. But never underestimate ingenuity. I did when the space program first started. I viewed a program being developed for it and said there is no way that will work. Well 10 years later I saw the object inside the space capsule blasting off to the moon. The electric car is not dead by any stretch of the imagination. Time is on their side.

[sowhatisit]

Feb 1, 2012 8:58:02 GMT -5 gavinsnana said:

Jan 30, 2012 23:27:17 GMT -5 AgeOfEnlightenmentSCP said:

You're going to start seeing a lot of out of state plates in CA is my prediction.

Bingo.. many are leaving the Great broke state of Cali.. business as well.

Insanity at the wheel, the stupidity of the governing of CA never stops amazing me. Its a great place to live but why oh why can't somebody run it as well as Disneyland is run?

[EVT1]

Feb 1, 2012 12:23:20 GMT -5 @investorbob said:

"He made it 18 miles before it stalled in a tunnel enroute to work. Apparently running the cars heater drains the battery very quickly......"

Not that I like the Volt by any stretch of the imagination, but it's obvious he did this as a political ploy.

Remember, the Volt has an engine, too. And unless he was simply in very bad (i.e. standstill) traffic, there's no reason the heater should reduce the miles he could travel by half. The amount of energy required to heat a vehicle is much lower than the energy required to make it move. I'd bet he had the windows open and the heat on full blast, something nobody would ever do.

These sorts of games where everybody has to be on one side or the other and win at any cost are highly counter-productive.

The volt has an engine to back up the battery- obviously it is some bullshit- sure it could have a failure, but the distance and/or use of the heater has squat to do with it. Let's see the tow bill and repair order.

[EVT1]

Feb 1, 2012 10:41:52 GMT -5 AgeOfEnlightenmentSCP said:

add a whole bunch of people charging up their 40 mph, 40 mile max range Chevy Volts and electricity rates are going to skyrocket in CA and elsewhere.

Speaking of outright bullshit......

[Sum Dum Gai]

Insanity at the wheel, the stupidity of the governing of CA never stops amazing me. Its a great place to live but why oh why can't somebody run it as well as Disneyland is run?

Because the voters here taken as a whole are one very very small step above completely retarded. The proposition process got out of hand and tied our legislator's hands. The super majority budget rule means the state is perpetually minority ruled. The sheer size and diversity of the state is a pain in the ass all on it's own. It's impossible to equally represent huge southern CA cities that are almost out of water, while also representing the central valley farmers who rely on the same water to grow roughly half the nations fruit and vegetables and make up a huge chunk of the state economy. That's assuming you just ignore the hippies around Berkley and San Francisco completely, but that's hard too because the tech sector is another vital component of the economy. There are too many groups to please, and what they want is directly at odds with each other.

Instead of getting these different interests to work out compromises, each group funds propositions that require the legislature to do what they want, and there's nothing anyone in state office can do about it. Their hands are literally tied.

[floridayankee]

Feb 1, 2012 11:52:33 GMT -5 EveryWhichWay said:

My guess would be not long, so it would be best not to venture out during a blizzard in a hybrid

So...either call out from work or own two vehicles? That's an expensive solution.

My solution is is much less expensive. Stick with the 'ole gas guzzler 'til they work out all these bugs. Of course, I've never been the one to jump on cutting edge technology anyway.

[floridayankee]

Feb 1, 2012 12:21:26 GMT -5 formerroomate99 said:

And while an electric car might work in mild climates, I hear that electric cars don't really do that well in extreme temperatures.

I either had a bad ground somewhere or something constantly drawing power because my old Camry ate batteries for lunch. It didn't matter if I bought a wally world special or a top of the line battery from NAPA. I purchased it here in FL in 2002 and I never got over two years out of any battery I put in that thing. That experience makes me extremely leery about owning an electric vehicle. I have since sold the car and bought a pickup so we'll see if it was the car or my own dumb luck.

[AgeOfEnlightenmentSCP]

Feb 1, 2012 12:32:37 GMT -5 Phoenix84 said:

I'm a bit confused on how they can enforce such a law. So if a dealership can't meet the 15% quota what do they do? Tell customers they can't sell them a regular car?

They'll just fine them. It doesn't matter if they can't sell them- heck it doesn't even matter if the manufacturers don't produce them. They'll just fine the companies and the costs will be passed on to the consumer.

Sound absurd? The Obama regime is already fining companies for not using a non-existent fuel.

In 2007, the Energy Independence and Security Act was enacted with the goals of reducing America’s dependence on oil from hostile nations, the payment of billions of dollars for the oil to the hostile nations, improve the efficiency of motor vehicles and increase the use of renewable energy resources which includes biofuels.

By 2011, fuel companies were to be blending in 6.6 million gallons of cellulosic biofuel into domestic gasoline and diesel. Cellulosic biofuel is made from wood chips and other plant parts such as corncobs and plant stems that are not edible.

However, there has been one major flaw in the EISA and that is the technology has not caught up to the requirements. Cellulosic biofuels only exist in small amounts as various research companies are desperately trying to come up with a way to produce the biofuel which isn’t cost prohibitive.

Read more: EPA Fines Companies for Not Using Nonexistent Fuels godfatherpolitics.com/3075/epa-fines-companies-for-not-using-nonexistent-fuels/#ixzz1lA13NXYB

[wyouser]

EVTI and Investorbob, of course the Volt has a gas engine, and yes he got to the studio with it....however, the batteries died at 18 miles which is a bit short of the distance claimed these vehicles can go on electric mode. The question about how long the heater will keep one from freezing when stuck in a snow bank in a blizzard is avery real one here.

[Sum Dum Gai]

In 2007, the Energy Independence and Security Act was enacted with the goals of reducing America’s dependence on oil from hostile nations, the payment of billions of dollars for the oil to the hostile nations, improve the efficiency of motor vehicles and increase the use of renewable energy resources which includes biofuels.

Obama took office in 2008. Thank lil Bush for any stupidity in the eight years prior to that.

[Deleted]

Just live in a real city...you know, a place with public transit. Rent a hybrid when you want to get out in the country for a weekend getaway.

Small towns are good too. Walking, riding your bike...waiving to the neighbors, why not. Slow down.

[wyouser]

We began supposedly to address the energy problem back in the Carter Administration. Correct me if Im wrong but several decades later we still don't have an energy policy. I think this is more than a mere Repubican or Democrat issue

[EVT1]

Feb 1, 2012 17:38:12 GMT -5 wyouser said:

EVTI and Investorbob, of course the Volt has a gas engine, and yes he got to the studio with it....however, the batteries died at 18 miles which is a bit short of the distance claimed these vehicles can go on electric mode. The question about how long the heater will keep one from freezing when stuck in a snow bank in a blizzard is avery real one here.

So it is anecdotal- we take the word of someone on Fox. Everything I have read is higher- but even 18 would cover more than I drive most days.

[TD2K]

Feb 1, 2012 17:46:16 GMT -5 Sum Dum Gai said:

In 2007, the Energy Independence and Security Act was enacted with the goals of reducing America’s dependence on oil from hostile nations, the payment of billions of dollars for the oil to the hostile nations, improve the efficiency of motor vehicles and increase the use of renewable energy resources which includes biofuels.

Obama took office in 2008. Thank lil Bush for any stupidity in the eight years prior to that.

Trust Paul to try and blame anything on Obama.

[dumdeedoe]

You guys in California need to split that state up into 2 maybe 3 states so you can get something done....

[floridayankee]

Feb 1, 2012 18:14:15 GMT -5 Robert not Bobby said:

Small towns are good too. Walking, riding your bike...waiving to the neighbors, why not.

Because I live in Flori-duh.....bicycle death capital of the US.

If you’re looking for an ideal cycling vacation or mild winter training spot in the US, skip Florida. The sunshine state is ranked among the worst states to ride a bike and posts one of the nations highest cycling fatality rates.

If you're on a bicycle here in FL, you're not a pedestrian, you're a target.

If they run me over when I'm riding the motorcycle, at least I'll leave a mark on 'em.