formerroomate99
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Post by formerroomate99 on Dec 8, 2011 9:31:27 GMT -5
So do you think the 'new society' is a form of 'coercion, force and brutality'? And how do you explain the segment of the white population that seems to think that having babies to collect a check is a valid career path? They clearly weren't victims of Jim Crow laws.
Like it or not, when you pay poor people to breed and punish them for getting married by taking away their children's benefits, you do encourage a set of behaviors that pretty much guarantees poverty. You're not going to convince many teenagers to spend the next 10 years of their lives getting an education and launching a carreer when they see most of their friends and neighbors are being handed a much higher standard of living than your typical poor college student enjoys for doing nothing.
ETA: I do agree with you that getting out of poverty is a much more time consuming and tricky process now than it was in my grandmother's time. And the fact that delaying gratification and hard work are no longer encouraged by this culture is also a factor. My grandmother got passed around between orphanages, her parents, and various white trash relatives her whole life. She had no upbringing at all. But since she lived in a culture where the behaviors that cause someone to get out of poverty were encouraged, she was able to pull herself up, even though the Depression was going on. Someone with her upbringing wouldn't stand a chance in today's culture.
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billisonboard
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Post by billisonboard on Dec 8, 2011 9:55:26 GMT -5
... ... You're not going to convince many teenagers to spend the next 10 years of their lives getting an education and launching a carreer when they see most of their friends and neighbors are being handed a much higher standard of living than your typical poor college student enjoys for doing nothing. Ain't that the truth. In 2009, around 410,000 teenage girls, ages 15 to 19, gave birth in the United States. That's a 37 percent decrease from the teen birth rate in1991. thechart.blogs.cnn.com/2011/04/05/teen-pregnancy-rate-lowest-in-two-decades/ For 2010 graduates, the college enrollment rate was 74.0 percent for young women ... www.bls.gov/news.release/hsgec.nr0.htm Wait, maybe it isn't
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djAdvocate
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Post by djAdvocate on Dec 8, 2011 10:58:32 GMT -5
So do you think the 'new society' is a form of 'coercion, force and brutality'? what 'new society'?
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djAdvocate
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Post by djAdvocate on Dec 8, 2011 10:59:49 GMT -5
You're not going to convince many teenagers to spend the next 10 years of their lives getting an education and launching a carreer when they see most of their friends and neighbors are being handed a much higher standard of living than your typical poor college student enjoys for doing nothing. how do they manage that? i am not following you, here.
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formerroomate99
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Post by formerroomate99 on Dec 8, 2011 12:46:06 GMT -5
New Society is the welfare system created under the Johnson adminstration.
If you spew out a kid, and you get section 8 housing, heating assistance, food stamps, medicaid, 2 or more years of welfare, and other goodies. Work and go to school and you get to spend the next 10 or so years working your tail off to 'enjoy' a much lower standard of living than people on welfare get for as long as you are in school. And at the end of all those years of hard work, you get a piece of paper that may or may not result in a good job and will have student loans to pay off. This is the choice many poor teenagers face.
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djAdvocate
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Post by djAdvocate on Dec 8, 2011 12:54:55 GMT -5
New Society is the welfare system created under the Johnson adminstration. ah- you mean the GREAT society? i don't really consider anything that is legislated by popular consent to be coersive or brutal, in the aggregate. i reserve that for policy that is brought about by the baton, the machete, and the gun.If you spew out a kid, and you get section 8 housing, heating assistance, food stamps, medicaid, 2 or more years of welfare, and other goodies. Work and go to school and you get to spend the next 10 or so years working your tail off to 'enjoy' a much lower standard of living than people on welfare get for as long as you are in school. And at the end of all those years of hard work, you get a piece of paper that may or may not result in a good job and will have student loans to pay off. This is the choice many poor teenagers face. ok, i see what you are driving at now. thanks.
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formerroomate99
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Post by formerroomate99 on Dec 8, 2011 15:26:57 GMT -5
Which brings me back to the original point. For a large segment of our population, the welfare system that was set up in the 1960's has trained them to think that having a child to collect a check is a valid career path. These people will always be poor, because in today's economy, it is next to impossible to lift someone out of poverty when that person rejects education and hard work and chooses to procreate before getting a career launched. So while you talk about how income disparity causes a breakdown in the social fabric, the way I see it, a lot of the income disparity we see in this country is a SYMPTOM of an existing breakdown in the social fabric.
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usaone
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Post by usaone on Dec 8, 2011 17:35:17 GMT -5
Which brings me back to the original point. For a large segment of our population, the welfare system that was set up in the 1960's has trained them to think that having a child to collect a check is a valid career path. These people will always be poor, because in today's economy, it is next to impossible to lift someone out of poverty when that person rejects education and hard work and chooses to procreate before getting a career launched. So while you talk about how income disparity causes a breakdown in the social fabric, the way I see it, a lot of the income disparity we see in this country is a SYMPTOM of an existing breakdown in the social fabric. How much of our population is on welfare that was designed in the 1960's? Food stamps are up but most of that is due to the severe recession. A lot of what I here on this forum are talking points from the politicians and TV wacko's. DONT BELIEVE THEM>>>ON EITHER SIDE! And again.....where did all the money go that was in the stock market. It didnt go to the middle class.
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djAdvocate
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Post by djAdvocate on Dec 8, 2011 17:37:31 GMT -5
Which brings me back to the original point. For a large segment of our population, the welfare system that was set up in the 1960's has trained them to think that having a child to collect a check is a valid career path. These people will always be poor, because in today's economy, it is next to impossible to lift someone out of poverty when that person rejects education and hard work and chooses to procreate before getting a career launched. So while you talk about how income disparity causes a breakdown in the social fabric, the way I see it, a lot of the income disparity we see in this country is a SYMPTOM of an existing breakdown in the social fabric. if so, then we should see more income disparity in countries with larger welfare states than ours, right?
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usaone
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Post by usaone on Dec 8, 2011 17:38:49 GMT -5
America was much closer....but still VERY far away....from socialism in the late 1930's,40's,50's,60's and 1970's than today.
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djAdvocate
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Post by djAdvocate on Dec 8, 2011 18:44:49 GMT -5
America was much closer....but still VERY far away....from socialism in the late 1930's,40's,50's,60's and 1970's than today. indeed. and the complaining was at a fever pitch in the 50's & 60's, died down since then, and is now at a fever pitch again, even though we are a LOT further from "socialism" than we were then.
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