Woman possible serve combat branches

[deziloooooo]

Has any one heard of this possibility?
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"A military advisory commission is recommending that the Pentagon do away with a policy that bans women from serving in combat units", breathing new life into a long-simmering debate...The newest move is being recommended by the Military Leadership Diversity Commission, established by Congress two years ago, and expected to send its report to Congress and President Barrack Obama in the spring. The Army is doing its own internal study of the question as well." [AP
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I know woman serve on front line ships of War, Fly attack Helicopters and are pilots in our most advanced fighter and bomber aircraft.
I know on todays battle field where there really is a blurring of front lines , rear areas , both are and can be a battle area.

When I see "combat Units, I think of light infantry , battle tanks, heavy and light for reconnaissance , search and destroy, platoon size, company size, even battalion size advance and destroy missions.
I am thinking, and could be wrong, those woman most interested in that aspect of military actions, would be career types, possible academy graduates, wanting the same chance for advancement and promotions that the men enjoy.

Not saying they couldn't do the job, hump what the average grunt {80 Lbs}carries into battle today, the privation , the lack of separate but equal...but is it really needed, and could they do those jobs as well over the long term.
Also the morale of their fellows when injured or worse, the wounds, the maiming, the death , the killing of...what it really is all about...

Guess different times , different morales , different military...

[lakhota]

MILITARY PANEL BACKS WOMEN IN COMBAT

www.huffingtonpost.com/2011/01/14/women-military-commission-combat_n_809241.html

[vonnie6200]

Jan 14, 2011 18:37:52 GMT -5 deziloooooo said:

Has any one heard of this possibility?
-------------------------------------------------------

"A military advisory commission is recommending that the Pentagon do away with a policy that bans women from serving in combat units", breathing new life into a long-simmering debate...The newest move is being recommended by the Military Leadership Diversity Commission, established by Congress two years ago, and expected to send its report to Congress and President Barrack Obama in the spring. The Army is doing its own internal study of the question as well." [AP
-----------------------------------------------------------

I know woman serve on front line ships of War, Fly attack Helicopters and are pilots in our most advanced fighter and bomber aircraft.
I know on todays battle field where there really is a blurring of front lines , rear areas , both are and can be a battle area.

When I see "combat Units, I think of light infantry , battle tanks, heavy and light for reconnaissance , search and destroy, platoon size, company size, even battalion size advance and destroy missions.
I am thinking, and could be wrong, those woman most interested in that aspect of military actions, would be career types, possible academy graduates, wanting the same chance for advancement and promotions that the men enjoy.

Not saying they couldn't do the job, hump what the average grunt {80 Lbs}carries into battle today, the privation , the lack of separate but equal...but is it really needed, and could they do those jobs as well over the long term.
Also the morale of their fellows when injured or worse, the wounds, the maiming, the death , the killing of...what it really is all about...

Guess different times , different morales , different military...

Some will be great - some will not . Just like their male couterparts.

[deziloooooo]

Jan 14, 2011 18:42:52 GMT -5 @lakhota said:

MILITARY PANEL BACKS WOMEN IN COMBAT

www.huffingtonpost.com/2011/01/14/women-military-commission-combat_n_809241.html

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"All said the policy should be changed to allow, at a minimum, mixed-sex support units to be assigned to combat battalions. Many favored a far more radical step: letting qualified women join the infantry."
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I see what they are saying...but to be honest..I don't care about the ability to advance to General or flag rank[though there since they do command ships of the line there is more openness for the qualified to reach that level, and some have} I am thinking, you open it to the officers , so they can move up, then it has to be opened to the ranks. I see a major, a Col , a woman in command ..but before that you start, for officers..as a second john, then the platoon commander , and then the company commander....
For the ranks, a private , fire team leader, a squad leader, ....

I guess from my experience , my little window of those small happenings, what was done, seen..the reality of...the hours spent, the equipment humped, the actions taken, the after math...6/7 bodies laid out...

as I said, different time and place

[vonnie6200]

Some women, not all women, can do anything a man can do.

Having worked for the Feds - I do get the fear - most reasonable - of the changing of standards.

Having said that - some women can be truly amazing in any circumstance ( and i would push hard for not coddling slackards)

[billisonboard]

Some women, not all women, can do anything a man can do.

The only problem with this statement is the (potential) assumption that all men can do. How about:

Some women, not all women, can do anything some men. not all men, can do.

[deziloooooo]

Vonnie , please re read my post , didn't say they couldn't and to add to it , surpass too...there is federal work..there is military work..as I said, different times , different place...all I personally can go by is where I have been, what I have done, what I have seen..a tiny small window of the whole , but that small tiny window was enough for me and that tiny small window shapes my feeling....the window of Flag Rank, General
Rank was never in my sight by a continent full..can't relate to it, didn't care about it, never affected me..what affected me and mine were the much, much smaller parts...the beginning steps to those positions..and those beginning steps were what either got me and mine the chance to come home walking or in a metal box..and in many cases those taking those beginning steps were with me , close by intimatly, some doing great..and sorry to say..a few failing miserable, and that's were my concern is/was ..not with the possibility if one gets or doesn't get to the next rank or even the highest.
It seems from the posted article , this idea is mostly concerned with those having a fair chance to reach those heights..to me and mine, I/they could care less about they having that chance, not my/their concern.

[vonnie6200]

Jan 14, 2011 19:25:37 GMT -5 deziloooooo said:

Vonnie , please re read my post , didn't say they couldn't and to add to it , surpass too...there is federal work..there is military work..as I said, different times , different place...all I personally can go by is where I have been, what I have done, what I have seen..a tiny small window of the whole , but that small tiny window was enough for me and that tiny small window shapes my feeling....the window of Flag Rank, General
Rank was never in my sight by a continent full..can't relate to it, didn't care about it, never affected me..what affected me and mine were the much, much smaller parts...the beginning steps to those positions..and those beginning steps were what either got me and mine the chance to come home walking or in a metal box..and in many cases those taking those beginning steps were with me , close by intimatly, some doing great..and sorry to say..a few failing miserable, and that's were my concern is/was ..not with the possibility if one gets or doesn't get to the next rank or even the highest.
It seems from the posted article , this idea is mostly concerned with those having a fair chance to reach those heights..to me and mine, I/they could care less about they having that chance, not my/their concern.

Actually we probably think very much alike - I know for a fact that "some" women can do what needs to be done and some men can not -

I also know that the Feds changes the rules to equal the playing field a few years back - and that I have a serious issue with

[handyman2]

The way to settle the issue would be to allow women the opportunity to volunteer for field combat and just see how many takers they have. Then they would get a picture of how viable it is.

[vonnie6200]

I actually agree with this

[deziloooooo]

I am sure that's what will happen but I think it is aimed at the Woman who are thinking of a career..and I am thinking jr officers..West Pointers.. not some Major/Colonial all of a sudden going infantry to get her ticket punched , they have to have that you know, for advancement. If so that would be BS.

[vonnie6200]

Jan 14, 2011 21:06:02 GMT -5 deziloooooo said:

I am sure that's what will happen but I think it is aimed at the Woman who are thinking of a career..and I am thinking jr officers..West Pointers.. not some Major/Colonial all of a sudden going infantry to get her ticket punched , they have to have that you know, for advancement. If so that would be BS.

I still agree - walk the walk - some women can do it - a lot of women won't want to even try

[handyman2]

keep in mind for a man to be taken prisoner it is bad, but for a woman in combat to be taken prisoner would be many times worse.

[burnsattornincan]

Actually we probably think very much alike

I think we're going to have a problem here.

[deziloooooo]

That we know but that is not entering into my thoughts handy..it is a volunteer force..those in know the risks , that's one of them...they accept that, and they are doing a superb job...accept the fact, captured they will be raped ii's almost a 100% certainly and there fellows will try to protect them..also endangering themselves..The sgt who just eqrned the medal from a action a yea or so ago, saved his buddy/friend from being fragged away, there was no POW camp waiting for that man..there was a reason he went out to save him..he passed still but that was not the thing..they knew what being captured meaant..so brave he was, the sgt.

I am sure they/many[woman] would do fine in combat as do their fellow male counterparts..it's just, having certain experiencs..I have questions, it's nothing like the DADT..all in favor of the over throw..it's just practicle things, reality of what it is.. My smallest man did not carry the M-60, even if he was the best gunner..the same with certain other equipement..my 6'4 '' did not go on point...All carried extra ammo, and if I could scrounge another MG, anti tank, claymore....and if out a while, hook or crook , another radio.

Hey, different times , different service....what can I say.

[billisonboard]

Jan 14, 2011 21:14:20 GMT -5 handyman2 said:

keep in mind for a man to be taken prisoner it is bad, but for a woman in combat to be taken prisoner would be many times worse.

Why?

[deziloooooo]

To be a POW is a horrible thing..if your lucky to survive to be captured..read Post # 14, I believed I covered handymans suggestion explicity, though not wanting to speak for him and if wrong , then stand corected.

[billisonboard]

Male prisoners are raped also.

[deziloooooo]

There always is that possibility but no..not normaly and no I don't have a link but will say the fear was not that but the fear was that one would survive if in that situation to BE captured alive...front line troops of whoever...very scary types, have missions..don't want the bother..very itchy trigger fingers, Rape..male...last thing on ones mind my friend.

[handyman2]

For a reference to women in combat roles I would suggest a review of the experience of Israel's use of women in combat and why they banned it in 1950. They require all serve the military in some capacity when they reach adulthood. The problems with women in combat raised to many problems.

[deziloooooo]

I know the Israeli situation...yes they stopped in combat a few years after their independence , "48", even then, "48", it was mostly in defense of the kibbutz and such communities on the firing line..not in offensive situations, but all woman do serve, except the orthodox, and in the support fields but all learn to shoot the standard rifle..think their service time is less too..but it's a different thing there..surrounded by not friendly folks to them.....just about all are trained and serve in the military..

[Loopdilou]

I'm super excited about this!! I grew up wanting to be a helicopter pilot - preferably attack helicopter, not support. Sadly, I'm both female and legally blind in one eye.. dreams dashed! But my children won't have either of those "handicaps" if they allow women to serve in all areas of the military!! PROGRESS!!! IT IS POSSIBLE!!

[deziloooooo]

Jan 15, 2011 4:19:17 GMT -5 Loopdilou said:

I'm super excited about this!! I grew up wanting to be a helicopter pilot - preferably attack helicopter, not support. Sadly, I'm both female and legally blind in one eye.. dreams dashed! But my children won't have either of those "handicaps" if they allow women to serve in all areas of the military!! PROGRESS!!! IT IS POSSIBLE!!

loop I believe woman do serve , in fact I know they serve as attack helocopter pilots now, front line as they do fly the Airforce fighter as well as the bomber jets too. Also fly recon..the pipers, tankers{a target in a war}.
I believe this consideration is removing the blockage of front line combat service, infantry, armor , artillery..if they are not already serving in those branchs.

[Loopdilou]

NOW they do. They didn't then.

Regardless, my daughters won't have anything stopping them from serving in any capacity in the military, except for what they aren't actually capable of (which is nothing if they put their minds to it!).

[handyman2]

The Israelis found out it did not work well for them with women on the front lines we will probably see how it works for us. We never learn from history and usually make the same mistakes because of it.
My guess after a 20 mile hike with a hundred plus pounds of gear on their backs they will have second thoughts. This has broken down some strong men also.

[deziloooooo]

Jan 15, 2011 22:06:28 GMT -5 handyman2 said:

The Israelis found out it did not work well for them with women on the front lines we will probably see how it works for us. We never learn from history and usually make the same mistakes because of it.
My guess after a 20 mile hike with a hundred plus pounds of gear on their backs they will have second thoughts. This has broken down some strong men also.

I am not even thinking that as much as platoon leader , starting as a second, then 1st , then a company commander, captain in a line outfit of Infantryman.

I don't believe many enlisted will be looking for that, they can make 7/8 in other fields but from what I read into the articles, it's the top ranks, the full Col and above and those people for the most part in RA for example come out of West point, or some of the service university's with strong ROTC programs, some small schools, one in VT that is big in RA commissions Armor, forgot the name.
The marching 20 miles they do that now..and then to lead in combat, on the ground as a platoon leader...
I know it was a movie, but the actions in the towns, not the last battle but leading up to that, Private Ryan, granted different war and time but when it gets to infantry , is it really that much different except for the weapons, communications.
The Movie "We were soldiers, 1st of the seventh...could a woman do it..a commander..I guess..but...not thinking just the physical..

Why do people so glamorize this crap is beyond me..there is nothing glamorous at all about it, nothing. There is no music playing in the back ground for one thing, not even some one whistling. LOL

I will bet the Marines will NOT be the first to push this one, on that I rest my reputation.

If this is only about someone two.three not gaining a star or two at the end of the day, some one has a screw loose, and if one or two woman who might be great at this not getting the opportunity, tough %$#^, so they don't get the chance, who says life is fair.

[privateinvestor]

Woman possible serve combat branches


Define combat branches ?? If you are referring to Special Operations, Marine Recon, Navy Seals, Army Special Forces or Air Force Special Ops then it has not happened yet. However I know of women Navy Corpsmen who served in both Iraq and Afghanistan in combat with Marine Corps Rifle Companies but not sure if they served with Marine Recon or Marine Scout Sniper Teams but would not be surprised if they in fact did and did a good job at their tasks..especially in Afghanistan where the women are also providing medical care to the Afghans as well as their fellow Marines to try and win over the hearts and minds of the Afghan tribal lords which is almost an impossible task

[deziloooooo]

I am thinking just old fashioned light infrantry, marine combat battalions...the "Marine Corps Rifle Companies", don't know how you served, me just the normal Grunt groups...nothing exotic..those types , haven't a clue, have their own agenda.
Your saying they are serving with the Grunts of your branch..surprised by that, that is as combat involved as you can get and I would think they might be with patrols, outposts, first responders..thinking armed too, at least personal protection. Thought that was not done by decree.

[Mad Dawg Wiccan]

MILITARY PANEL BACKS WOMEN IN COMBAT


I would be in favor of this so long as the military gets rid of the "gender norming" policies which place lower physical standards for women. If a woman can complete the training under the same standards as men, more power to them and let them serve. If they can't make it, then they can't serve in that MOS. And don't lower the standards for men just so more women can obtain their levels.

[deziloooooo]

maddaw...I guess I am not thinking the physical..not all grunts are the same either..figure the woman would meet the minimums of that.. just the whole reality of infranty tactics, missions, the battle field ..it's not a ball field, what the realitys would do for those involved ...that's my thinking.
I am also thinking if there were #'s in those units, most would be officers..thee because they are also interested in the opportunity as a career being able to be moved up if qualified to what ever rank that they would be able to handle and not having that ticket punched hurts them
when the enlisted are considered , there seems to be plenty of slots with the higher grades available 7/8 and even the occasional 9 in their specialties. Not so for the top ranks for officers, the ticket has to be punched.
Would a few Woman , enlisted want that slot, that MOS? Possible but don't think that many...could be wrong but feel that way, but those coming out of the Academy? Yes many.