flopsy
Well-Known Member
Joined: Feb 5, 2011 23:14:07 GMT -5
Posts: 1,690
|
Post by flopsy on Oct 10, 2011 20:02:36 GMT -5
Thanks for the website, that was an interesting game. It would really be interesting to be able to apply our lives like that and see how it really works out into that kind of format. i could see a reality show based on this. genius!
|
|
❤ mollymouser ❤
Senior Associate
Sarcasm is my Superpower
Crazy Cat Lady
Joined: Dec 18, 2010 16:09:58 GMT -5
Posts: 12,858
Today's Mood: Gen X ... so I'm sarcastic and annoyed
Location: Central California
Favorite Drink: Diet Mountain Dew
|
Post by ❤ mollymouser ❤ on Oct 10, 2011 21:35:12 GMT -5
I made it through the month with $641, but had to say goodbye to the cell phone.
|
|
formerexpat
Senior Member
Joined: Dec 18, 2010 12:09:05 GMT -5
Posts: 4,079
|
Post by formerexpat on Oct 10, 2011 21:57:01 GMT -5
For starters, you can read the rest of the post that you cut off in your quote for my "anecdotal evidence".
The game tries to push in a middle class lifestyle, along with middle class expenses for someone making close to minimum wage.
It's clear that the creator of this game either a) has an agenda to be filled by the game or b) has never spent a day in poverty or poor or living week to week...possibly both (a) & (b).
The game throws every problem that has remote possibilities of occurring in and of themselves and has them all occur in a 30 day period. The statistical probability is low. Then it throws in stupid shit like having a pet and charging you $350...um - I wouldn't be that fucking stupid...but the game gives you no choice.
I'm looking at apartments right now in a major city - just for fun because of this game, and they're $300 less per month than this game states - in the 5th largest city in the nation.
These are just a handful of the dumb things I've noticed.
|
|
djAdvocate
Member Emeritus
only posting when the mood strikes me.
Joined: Jun 21, 2011 12:33:54 GMT -5
Posts: 75,233
Mini-Profile Background: {"image":"","color":"000307"}
|
Post by djAdvocate on Oct 10, 2011 22:24:47 GMT -5
For starters, you can read the rest of the post that you cut off in your quote for my "anecdotal evidence". fep- i always read the entire post. but i only ask questions about the portion that interests me. please don't get upset about it. i do it to save space on the bulletin boards, and make replies and responses easier for OTHERS to read.
|
|
djAdvocate
Member Emeritus
only posting when the mood strikes me.
Joined: Jun 21, 2011 12:33:54 GMT -5
Posts: 75,233
Mini-Profile Background: {"image":"","color":"000307"}
|
Post by djAdvocate on Oct 10, 2011 22:26:01 GMT -5
The game tries to push in a middle class lifestyle, along with middle class expenses for someone making close to minimum wage. It's clear that the creator of this game either a) has an agenda to be filled by the game or b) has never spent a day in poverty or poor or living week to week...possibly both (a) & (b). The game throws every problem that has remote possibilities of occurring in and of themselves and has them all occur in a 30 day period. The statistical probability is low. Then it throws in stupid shit like having a pet and charging you $350...um - I wouldn't be that fucking stupid...but the game gives you no choice. I'm looking at apartments right now in a major city - just for fun because of this game, and they're $300 less per month than this game states - in the 5th largest city in the nation. These are just a handful of the dumb things I've noticed. ok, thanks. i appreciate the thoughtful non-anecdotal reply.
|
|
jkapp
Junior Associate
Joined: Dec 23, 2010 12:05:08 GMT -5
Posts: 5,416
|
Post by jkapp on Oct 11, 2011 16:47:44 GMT -5
Of course it is a bit simplistic, as it is only a simulated exersize. We could harp all day on it's shortcomings. Where it hits the nail right on the head though is that when you are on the edge any unexpected or unfortunate event can send you over the edge, and also that the less resources that one has to maintain things- one's health, home, car, etc. the more likely they are to have problems with any and all of them. my mother was a single mother who was on food stamps for some time, and I also started my adult life with little, and made little. To me the simulation rings true if one can get past some of the "gamed" inconsistancies. Except I have know people who make good money (I would imagine they made that illusive "living wage" that no one can ever define ) yet they would ALSO get pushed over the edge if an unexpected event occurred. Just because people make good money doesn't mean it fixes their spending/saving stupidity...and what that also means is even if people are paid a "living wage" it doesn't really mean anything - because stupid people are stupid no matter how much money they have or don't have. Just look at how many stupid lottery winners are out there that go broke
|
|
floridayankee
Junior Associate
If You Don't Stand Behind Our Troops, Feel Free to Stand in Front of Them.
Joined: Dec 20, 2010 14:56:05 GMT -5
Posts: 7,461
|
Post by floridayankee on Oct 12, 2011 9:26:02 GMT -5
Ya know, that scenario still bugs me -- I think I need to write the bitch mother a letter. I never turned around and responded to her because I was so mortified over her comments. Why would you let this kind of crap consume you? Let it go...move on with your life. I've been in your shoes and I've had wealthy friends and I realize they can "do" more than me. Big deal.
|
|
floridayankee
Junior Associate
If You Don't Stand Behind Our Troops, Feel Free to Stand in Front of Them.
Joined: Dec 20, 2010 14:56:05 GMT -5
Posts: 7,461
|
Post by floridayankee on Oct 12, 2011 9:33:40 GMT -5
that is how i took the point. that unexpected surprises are really hard to cope with when you are "on the edge". but to the "blame the victim" crowd, this concept seems "stupid". Being "the victim" all the time assumes that one has no control over one's own life. I've been "the victim" lots of times in the past. Once I finally figured out that I was the idiot causing the great majority of my problems, I decided to quit being "the victim".
|
|
AgeOfEnlightenmentSCP
Distinguished Associate
Joined: Dec 21, 2010 11:59:07 GMT -5
Posts: 31,709
Favorite Drink: Sweetwater 420
|
Post by AgeOfEnlightenmentSCP on Oct 13, 2011 6:17:52 GMT -5
I don't even give the creators of this "game" credit for good intentions, I think the whole purpose is to convince stubborn free people that they're just one root canal away from needing government help, ergo, you should not oppose big government because there but for the grace of G-d go you.
But, for the sake of argument let's say these people have good intentions. Let's say you're supposed to learn something. It's still bad. The reason it's bad is that it gives you a fixed amount of money and random, unlimited possible expenditures. Hear me now- THIS IS NOT POLITICAL!
1. MINDSET is key. Your options are NOT limited. Once your thinking is shut down because you consider it impossible to earn more- you're hosed. For the rest of your life.
2. What about SAVINGS?
3. What about other sources of income?
4. What about help from friends and family?
5. What about not being in debt in the first place? And please don't give me the line that all credit card debt is for medical bills, root canals, and car repairs-- that's bullshit. Study after study clearly shows people OVERSPEND using credit.
6. What about negotiating a lower price on that car repair? What about negotiating a payment plan for those medical bills?
7. What about stiffing your creditors? There are legal options for people truly in over their heads. Why not see an attorney and find out what they are?
|
|
AgeOfEnlightenmentSCP
Distinguished Associate
Joined: Dec 21, 2010 11:59:07 GMT -5
Posts: 31,709
Favorite Drink: Sweetwater 420
|
Post by AgeOfEnlightenmentSCP on Oct 13, 2011 6:28:57 GMT -5
that is how i took the point. that unexpected surprises are really hard to cope with when you are "on the edge". but to the "blame the victim" crowd, this concept seems "stupid". Being "the victim" all the time assumes that one has no control over one's own life. I've been "the victim" lots of times in the past. Once I finally figured out that I was the idiot causing the great majority of my problems, I decided to quit being "the victim". Exactly. Here again, it might not be the best idea to instill in people the idea-- the mindset-- that they are but hapless, helpless victims in life. There is a behavioral component to poverty. Maybe it's not ALL their fault, but let's say you earn $700 a week as a single parent working in a diner and daycare costs you $350 a week. You have to do everything on $350 a week. You have a $500 a month credit card debt service, and a $250 a month car payment so the only housing this person can afford is a $400 per month mobile home parked on someone else's property? What's the lesson? Is it: life is unfair, this sucks? Or is it that the most reliable predictor of a life of poverty the choice to become a single parent? See, this person is my sister. And those are rough numbers- I don't know the exact numbers. But she is the one that determined she would wake up from her own self-created nightmare, ask God for help, and with the help of her faith finish nursing school, find a good, reliable man with a good job (instead of the drug dealer who is the father of not one, but two of her children). She could have blamed that jerk of a drug dealer for not paying a nickel in child support-- but instead, she said (and I quote), "I'm the idiot. He was going to do this to someone and I volunteered".
|
|
AgeOfEnlightenmentSCP
Distinguished Associate
Joined: Dec 21, 2010 11:59:07 GMT -5
Posts: 31,709
Favorite Drink: Sweetwater 420
|
Post by AgeOfEnlightenmentSCP on Oct 13, 2011 6:34:08 GMT -5
Sorry. People on $10.00/hour jobs don't have savings, so forget about that. Negotiating prices on car repairs only goes so far too. It's pretty hard to negotiate from a place of desperation. You are not free to put it on a tow and drive it all over town. So far as being in debt, well, that is the point. People with low incomes and no savings do go into debt. So far as stiffing creditors, well you need credit. Once you stiff them you won't be able to go back to them and bankruptcy, also costs hundreds of dollars too. The point of this exercise is to experience economic vulnerability. It is clear to me that you cannot leave your own situation behind long enough to put yourself in the shoes of someone with low wages, no savings, and an extreme dependency on others. That's exactly the point of it- to illustrate economic vulnerability. My point is that to be that economically vulnerable is a choice. I've been there, too. In fact, my first job out of the Navy was $7.35 an hour. My wife and I found a house-sitting job, took it seriously and did a very good job. We parlayed that into another house-sitting job, and we lived virtually rent-free for four years. My wife got a job providing the benefits, I worked fool time at Outback, and instead of partying, sleeping until noon and going back to work at three like most of my co-workers-- I went to school, AND I did the landscaping business on the side. MY credit card debt? I used it to pay for books, and to buy equipment to do the yard work. The fact is there are BEHAVIORAL factors to being broke. Period.
|
|
AgeOfEnlightenmentSCP
Distinguished Associate
Joined: Dec 21, 2010 11:59:07 GMT -5
Posts: 31,709
Favorite Drink: Sweetwater 420
|
Post by AgeOfEnlightenmentSCP on Oct 13, 2011 6:35:02 GMT -5
No Paul, I disagree. People who make very little and get by anyway do so because they have help. Perhaps mom and dad let them live in the basement a little longer. Perhaps they have a good friend who will spot them a twenty or tip them to a focus group or a waitressing gig. The real point of this exercise is that if you are poor, you better count every penny, and you better not burn bridges. You better count every penny anyway. Help is fine. We gave my sister a lot of help.
|
|
|
Post by neoh on Oct 13, 2011 6:53:53 GMT -5
V_L often posted about a time in the early 20th century (1904?) when huge amounts of the urban population were being crushed by legal loan sharking. The problem became so severe that the economy was suffering because so much of the collective income was going to interest payments. Usury laws were enacted and legalized sharking disappeared. The economy then stabilized. Legalized sharking was reinstated beginning in the 80's. Now the economy is struggling again. We can talk all day about how "we" are responsible. That's not the point. The point is that legalized sharking freezes up the economy and therefore must be regulated.
|
|
|
Post by neoh on Oct 13, 2011 7:13:40 GMT -5
Forget about the early 20th Century, and in fact you are probably talking about the explosion of installment debt during the 1920s, prohibitions against usury go back to the bible. In fact, the biblical concept of a "Year of Jubilee" where all debts were forgiven was the forerunner to modern bankruptcy. Usury is a plague. www.alastairmcintosh.com/articles/1998_usury.htmI'm a big believer in mass debt forgiveness. Sure I'll take a hit probably in my retirement account. A planet full of debt slaves is destined to crash anyway.
|
|
floridayankee
Junior Associate
If You Don't Stand Behind Our Troops, Feel Free to Stand in Front of Them.
Joined: Dec 20, 2010 14:56:05 GMT -5
Posts: 7,461
|
Post by floridayankee on Oct 13, 2011 7:18:32 GMT -5
I'm a big believer in mass debt forgiveness. Sure I'll take a hit probably in my retirement account. A planet full of debt slaves is destined to crash anyway. Becoming a debt slave is a choice. I didn't have to borrow that $150k to buy a home, I could have rented and saved.
|
|
|
Post by neoh on Oct 13, 2011 7:39:31 GMT -5
I'm a big believer in mass debt forgiveness. Sure I'll take a hit probably in my retirement account. A planet full of debt slaves is destined to crash anyway. Becoming a debt slave is a choice. I didn't have to borrow that $150k to buy a home, I could have rented and saved. You can be assured that too many people will make a poor choice when given the opportunity. Easy credit induced busts have been happening forever. It's not about you and me being responsible.
|
|
floridayankee
Junior Associate
If You Don't Stand Behind Our Troops, Feel Free to Stand in Front of Them.
Joined: Dec 20, 2010 14:56:05 GMT -5
Posts: 7,461
|
Post by floridayankee on Oct 13, 2011 7:57:16 GMT -5
Don't kid yourself that this amount of indebtedness isn't engineered by institutions that are quite clever. So it's some nameless institution's fault that people spend way too much? Really? Must suck to be so f'ing stupid that this nameless institution controls "your" life more than "you" do. No, I'm not saying you personally.
|
|
floridayankee
Junior Associate
If You Don't Stand Behind Our Troops, Feel Free to Stand in Front of Them.
Joined: Dec 20, 2010 14:56:05 GMT -5
Posts: 7,461
|
Post by floridayankee on Oct 13, 2011 8:01:58 GMT -5
Becoming a debt slave is a choice. I didn't have to borrow that $150k to buy a home, I could have rented and saved. You can be assured that too many people will make a poor choice when given the opportunity. Easy credit induced busts have been happening forever. It's not about you and me being responsible. So instead of buying a $180k house, I could have bought a completely unaffordable $500k house and it wouldn't be my fault? Instead of buying my 3 year old Yamaha Venture for $13k I could have bought that loaded Honda Goldwing for $29k and it wouldn't be my fault? That's awesome, but damnit, I feel stupid for being so personally responsible.
|
|
|
Post by neoh on Oct 13, 2011 8:10:10 GMT -5
Don't kid yourself that this amount of indebtedness isn't engineered by institutions that are quite clever. So it's some nameless institution's fault that people spend way too much? Really? Must suck to be so f'ing stupid that this nameless institution controls "your" life more than "you" do. No, I'm not saying you personally. Yep. Making a con game legal is not an excuse. Bernie Madoff is in prison, as he should be, because he swindled "stupid" investors. Time to reign in easy credit.
|
|