Tosh
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Philosophy is dead.
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Post by Tosh on Sept 21, 2011 11:12:40 GMT -5
Snerdley my love, ( in the platonic and non-patronizing sense). The existence of nothing out with space-time has not been established, assuming there was nothing then your argument also applies to God, did he make the universe out of nothing ? If one can not create something out of nothing then what created God ?
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Post by Deleted on Sept 21, 2011 11:14:13 GMT -5
Right. And just because I choose something different than you doesn't give you the right to come knocking on my door in some vain attempt to convert me (even though the Bible told you to). Let grown ups make up their own minds.
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Post by Deleted on Sept 21, 2011 11:14:53 GMT -5
God should know that I don't want his attention. For an omniscient being he sure is obtuse. Just be glad he is only being obtuse and not being his old school self. << looks up for storm clouds >>
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Post by Deleted on Sept 21, 2011 11:16:51 GMT -5
Assuming God is on ones side is rather presumptuous, one man's freedom is another man's slavery. I would imagine God would be protecting all its children, including the 9 million kids under 5 that die every year of diseases he created. God and innocent suffering is a bitter pill to swallow. One day my good man you will understand. There will be a judgement day. Even if you dont believe.[/quote] So why does that come off as a threat of sorts?
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Post by Deleted on Sept 21, 2011 11:17:14 GMT -5
I made a wrong turn at the doxie thread and ended up here.
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Post by Deleted on Sept 21, 2011 11:18:43 GMT -5
The reality of life is that you see through the mirror darkly. There are glimpses of God all around you and things that will confirm His Existence or not. You will never really know for certain that God does not exist. You will never know anything to the nth degree or in its entirety. You walk in faith every single day whether you realize it or not. You simply cannot function without faith. And, since you will never know how the earth was really created, you are making a choice one way or the other. That is lovely, but what you call glimpses of God is your interpretation of what you see around you, not everyones. I respect your right to see what you want through your eyes. I see it differently, that is my right.
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Tosh
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Philosophy is dead.
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Post by Tosh on Sept 21, 2011 11:18:44 GMT -5
Yes, I have read the attempts to justify God inflicting cruelty on innocent babies, and to be frank, in my book of morality there can be no justification for the premeditated murder of young children.
Maybe it was ok in the Bronze Age but not now.
oops, it seems even people in the bronze age found it sadistic.
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Post by Deleted on Sept 21, 2011 11:19:09 GMT -5
I choose to believe that if you don't believe in God and the afterlife then you just end up in the ground. A being that I don't believe in can't "judge" me. For those that do believe I hope you do get eternal salvation and enjoy your time up in Heaven.
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Post by Deleted on Sept 21, 2011 11:19:53 GMT -5
I'd rather be carmelized.
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Post by Deleted on Sept 21, 2011 11:21:13 GMT -5
One day my good man you will understand. There will be a judgement day. Even if you dont believe.[/quote] So why does that come off as a threat of sorts? It is not a threat by any means. Unless someone is scared of the comment, then they themselfs need to seek what comforts them I see it as a threat of being judged, lest you be not worthy of getting on the bus.
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Tosh
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Philosophy is dead.
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Post by Tosh on Sept 21, 2011 11:26:34 GMT -5
The reality of life is that I see reality and I function perfectly well with out faith, I view the wonders of the natural world and see it as evidence that the natural world is wonderful.
My mirror shines just as bright as yours, and it is not a magic mirror, like some I am too polite to mention. ;D
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Post by Deleted on Sept 21, 2011 11:33:08 GMT -5
If the drive-by comment was directed at me I would just like to clarify that anything I say is just my personal feelings on the matter.
And as for researching theology.....well, I would find it tedious to read through any book where I find the subject matter dis-interesting.
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Post by Deleted on Sept 21, 2011 11:34:37 GMT -5
However, let's look at this from an atheist, blob-like point of view. If there is no God other than one's own survival, then what would be the problem with cruelly killing "innocents'? And, how could someone be "innocent" anyway of anything if there really is no morality, no God, nothing beyond our blob like existence? How do you explain that? And, if it really doesn't matter what i do, then why shouldn't i do what i please no matter who it hurts? We do it all the time....
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Tosh
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Philosophy is dead.
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Post by Tosh on Sept 21, 2011 11:35:47 GMT -5
[/size][/quote]
Judgment day requires the presence of God's appointee, commonly referred to as the son of man, Jesus thought he was arriving imminently, he was wrong.
The historical Jesus was a Jewish apocalypticist just like John the Baptist, believe it or not they were not uncommon in 1st century Palestine.
Next thing you know Jesus the failed messiah is dead, and suddenly he becomes the son of man that is going to return soon to usher in the Kingdom, it didn't happen either.
Such is the life of an apocalyptic.
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Tosh
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Philosophy is dead.
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Post by Tosh on Sept 21, 2011 11:38:59 GMT -5
mmm, what has an innocent baby dying of malaria got to do with evil men ?
Lots of innocent babies killed in tsunamis, earthquakes etc etc....just sick retribution in my eyes.
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Post by Deleted on Sept 21, 2011 11:41:54 GMT -5
However, let's look at this from an atheist, blob-like point of view. If there is no God other than one's own survival, then what would be the problem with cruelly killing "innocents'? And, how could someone be "innocent" anyway of anything if there really is no morality, no God, nothing beyond our blob like existence? How do you explain that? And, if it really doesn't matter what i do, then why shouldn't i do what i please no matter who it hurts? Tosh touched on this earlier in the thread:
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Tosh
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Philosophy is dead.
Joined: Sept 15, 2011 11:24:54 GMT -5
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Post by Tosh on Sept 21, 2011 11:44:20 GMT -5
I never knew God cried, I didn't think he was physical, it just shows you, you learn something new everyday.
Where did god squeeze man into the fossil records ?
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Post by Deleted on Sept 21, 2011 11:47:35 GMT -5
I see it as a threat of being judged, lest you be not worthy of getting on the bus. Ah, but there is only one that can judge you.And he doesnt drive a bus lol I drive my own bus. And I don't judge anyone, hop on...its free.
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Post by Deleted on Sept 21, 2011 11:48:23 GMT -5
WHOO-HOO! Road trip!!
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Post by Deleted on Sept 21, 2011 11:49:42 GMT -5
WHOO-HOO! Road trip!! Just don't take the highway to hell.
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Tosh
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Philosophy is dead.
Joined: Sept 15, 2011 11:24:54 GMT -5
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Post by Tosh on Sept 21, 2011 11:51:40 GMT -5
Can I explain something to you my dear friend, just because I believe evolution by natural selection is true, does not mean I support Social Darwinism, the survival of the fittest is not the philosophy of an atheist, it is the philosophy of an American Republican who does not believe in the concept of mutual aid and altruism. This is odd since it was one of the main themes of the man they seemingly worship as if he was God. The whole point of morality is to protect humans from evolution by natural selection, thereby protecting the weakest.
Life is as strange as shit.
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Post by Deleted on Sept 21, 2011 11:51:56 GMT -5
Joey's driving, so that's up to her, now isn't it?
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Post by Deleted on Sept 21, 2011 11:56:18 GMT -5
No, even God has helpers, and he gets peoples attention in various ways God should know that I don't want his attention. For an omniscient being he sure is obtuse. I should stay away from this thread. I know that I will ‘say’ things which I may later regret, but I had to chime in on this one. One of my pet peeves, and that is putting it delicately, against the proselytizers and those who are so earnestly and doggedly intent on saving my soul (I don’t need or want to be saved), is their appalling sense of timing. This is particularly true of the Jehovah Witnesses. For a time they kept knocking on my door every Saturday morning at around 7:30…WTH. It’s my friggin weekend. Why can’t the come around in the afternoon when chances are, I will be out. Some people…
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Post by Deleted on Sept 21, 2011 11:58:17 GMT -5
WHOO-HOO! Road trip!! Just don't take the highway to hell. No worries, I have my GPS. And the G stands for GLOBAL! ;D
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Post by Deleted on Sept 21, 2011 12:03:52 GMT -5
God should know that I don't want his attention. For an omniscient being he sure is obtuse. I should stay away from this thread. I know that I will ‘say’ things which I may later regret, but I had to chime in on this one. One of my pet peeves, and that is putting it delicately, against the proselytizers and those who are so earnestly and doggedly intent on saving my soul (I don’t need or want to be saved), is their appalling sense of timing. This is particularly true of the Jehovah Witnesses. For a time they kept knocking on my door every Saturday morning at around 7:30…WTH. It’s my friggin weekend. Why can’t the come around in the afternoon when chances are, I will be out. Some people… 7:30 on a Saturday, why that is a criminal offense isn't it? Joehovah Witnesses are great practice for teaching your children how to NOT open the door to strangers. For real.
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Tosh
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Philosophy is dead.
Joined: Sept 15, 2011 11:24:54 GMT -5
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Post by Tosh on Sept 21, 2011 12:05:53 GMT -5
Anyone who suggests there can be no morality without God has lost their senses.
Imagine a world where the most suffering is inflicted on the most number of people is the philosophy of the day, do you really think this is conducive to our well being ? The answer is obviously no and that is why it is wrong.
Goodness is the opposite, it is no suffering inflicted on no people and this is conducive to our well being, it is right.
It is unreasonable for humans to create an environment in which they will be the victim, one can not adopt a philosophy and escape from its consequences.
Morality makes sense, we do not need God or Bronze Age prophets to tell us what is right and wrong.
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Tosh
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Philosophy is dead.
Joined: Sept 15, 2011 11:24:54 GMT -5
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Post by Tosh on Sept 21, 2011 12:36:48 GMT -5
I think you'll find that America's level of religiosity is on a par with Third World nations ... not other First World nations. This is why America is such an anomaly.
Religion offers comfort, comfort against fear and anxiety, I don't believe Americans fear death more than the rest of the developed world, so what is the cause of this fear and anxiety ?
There is one thing that sets America apart from other First World nations: The lack of a solid safety net, especially in regards to health care, the price for failing to be the fittest in America is more fearful and anxious than the rest of the developed world, and maybe they need more comfort, especially as one approaches old age. This culture is also the culture of the 3rd world and they share the same levels of religiosity as America.
If my wee theory is true, do you not find it ironic that the country that most opposes on religious grounds evolution and the survival of the fittest, actually practices it more than non-religious developed nations ?
Weird innit ?
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Post by Deleted on Sept 21, 2011 12:37:29 GMT -5
"7:30 on a Saturday, why that is a criminal offense isn't it?
Joehovah Witnesses are great practice for teaching your children how to NOT open the door to strangers. For real."They seem to have given up on me. Maybe I should have used a more direct approach.
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Post by Deleted on Sept 21, 2011 12:39:50 GMT -5
The last time they came I politely told them that I don't believe and they told me to have a nice day. I hope I've been "flagged" as well. ;D
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Tosh
Senior Member
Philosophy is dead.
Joined: Sept 15, 2011 11:24:54 GMT -5
Posts: 2,227
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Post by Tosh on Sept 21, 2011 12:47:43 GMT -5
It will come as no great surprise to you all that I invite Jehovah's Witnesses in, soon afterwards they are feigning illness to leave.
Honest, I am a lovely lovely guy.
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